British holiday makers to pay for EU visas

[ClaretAndJew]

Forgive me for yet another thread regarding the ol' Brexit, but, wasn't this expected? Or is has this come out the blue?

The free movement through the EU was one of the biggest reasons I was disappointed with the result of the referendum.

Yes, it's a Daily Mail link, but the story within is factual.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Leisure]

So we'll just charge EU visitors to the UK.

[Heaton's Gloves]

Bullys... pure and simple. We should respond in kind.

[IAmAClaret]

£6. Cheaper than Turkey, Egypt and USA to name but a few.

But don't let that get in the way of yet another 'let's not do Brexit' argument.

[RalphCoatesComb]

No Visas for Cornwall... That's our new holiday destination !

[UpTheBeehole]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... st-quarter

UK economy suffers weakest period of GDP growth in five years
ONS figures show construction output slump as rate in first quarter slows to 0.1%

[ClaretinMyBlood]

EU travel Visa charges will be minimal, price of a couple of pints.
Wouldn't be surprised to see tour operators factor it straight into holiday/flight costs.

[starting_11]

£6. Cheaper than Turkey, Egypt and USA to name but a few.

But don't let that get in the way of yet another 'let's not do Brexit' argument.

We don't pay for US visas... But don't let that get in the way of whatever your argument is

[MiltonKeynesClaret93]

We don't pay for US visas... But don't let that get in the way of whatever your argument is

He might be referring to the ESTA which is basically the same thing. Although $14 is for as many trips in and out of the USA in a 2 year period.

[UpTheBeehole]

We don't pay for US visas... But don't let that get in the way of whatever your argument is

An ESTA costs $14

[IAmAClaret]

We don't pay for US visas... But don't let that get in the way of whatever your argument is

Check you know what you're on about first.

[Lancasterclaret]

Check you know what you're on about first.

On an EU thread?

Why would people start doing that now!?!

[claretonthecoast1882]

These European away days are going to be expensive if we all get hit with an extra £5

[ClaretAndJew]

The story is surprising to me because isn't that what wad expected?

[dsr]

Bullys... pure and simple. We should respond in kind.

Might be better to claim a bit of moral high ground by not charging. It's the EU that wants a hard border between Northern and Southern Ireland, so if we don't charge the Irish for coming north while the EU are setting up checkpoints and demanding to see passports for people heading south, it won't go down well with the Irish.

[starting_11]

An ESTA costs $14

An ESTA isn't a visa... Hint, it's in the name

[dsr]

An ESTA isn't a visa... Hint, it's in the name

Are you a management consultant? It's the way you can tell us something which is factually accurate and yet adds absolutely nothing to our knowledge that gives it away.

[UpTheBeehole]

An ESTA isn't a visa... Hint, it's in the name

The MRV application fee is non-refundable and non-transferable. There will be no refund of the fee, regardless of whether the visa is ultimately issued or refused. There will also be no refund of the fee if you schedule an appointment, cancel and do not reschedule within 12 months.

The fee is valid for one visa application within twelve months of the date of payment. If you are unable to attend the interview you may reschedule an appointment for any time within that 12 month period. The fee is not valid for use by a third party

The MRV Fee Schedule is tiered as follows:

MRV Fee – $160:00;
Petition Based Applicants (H, L, O, P, Q, R) – $190:00;
E-1, E-2 & E-3 visa applicants – $205:00
The fee is paid at the time you schedule the interview. Payment is by debit card only.

https://uk.usembassy.gov/visas/non-immigrant-visa-fees/

[Lancasterclaret]

It's the EU that wants a hard border between Northern and Southern Ireland,

Sigh, can't be arsed with a row today, but this is just b/s

[starting_11]

Citizens of the United Kingdom, Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium Brunei, Chile, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein,Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Republic of Korea, San Marino, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and Taiwan.

(Visa waiver)

Where are you from, Exactly?

[starting_11]

Ahhhhh I know.

Russia!


You're a Russian troll bot that's why you need a visa!!!!

[JohnMcGreal]

It's the EU that wants a hard border between Northern and Southern Ireland

First of all, it's the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, the EU don't want any of this. This mess is of the UK's own making.

[Ashingtonclaret46]

First of all, it's the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, the EU don't want any of this. This mess is of the UK's own making.

John it is of the UK's own making because the people voted for it

[Rowls]

First of all, it's the Republic of Ireland. Secondly, the EU don't want any of this. This mess is of the UK's own making.

Firstly, it's obviously which country he is talking about.

Secondly the UK and the EU have both agreed they don't want a hard border. However, the EU are pushing to maintain a customs union on pain of penalty - one of which would be a hard border. The UK are trying to push for better solutions. So the EU, whilst admitting they don't want a hard border, are effectively pushing it towards a reality.

This is an opportunity of the UK's own making.

[thatdberight]

We don't pay for US visas... But don't let that get in the way of whatever your argument is

He never said we did. He just said £6 was cheaper than the USA. And, since the EU discussion appears to be around a visa waiver-type scheme, in fact the charges to the USA and this one being floated look like very much the same thing.

Would it kill somebody on here just for once to say, "Oh yeah - sorry"? They'd look like much less of a d**k.

[nil_desperandum]

Secondly the UK and the EU have both agreed they don't want a hard border. However, the EU are pushing to maintain a customs union on pain of penalty - one of which would be a hard border. The UK are trying to push for better solutions. So the EU, whilst admitting they don't want a hard border, are effectively pushing it towards a reality.
.

There's huge misunderstanding here.
The EU have said that - above all - there mustn't be a "hard" border, and is committed to avoiding one. It has even put forward a sort of "backstop" / "last resort" compromise if the UK doesn't come up with a solution, but it relies on some kind of deal being reached.
It is WTO rules / regs that would create the necessity for a hard border. We've had this argument before, and no one has come with a solution to this.
Reverting to WTO rules = hard border, so it would be our government's choice not the EUs, unless of course you put forward the argument that the EU is forcing us to leave, - and furthermore - to leave with no deal.

[thatdberight]

Forgive me for yet another thread regarding the ol' Brexit, but, wasn't this expected? Or is has this come out the blue?

The free movement through the EU was one of the biggest reasons I was disappointed with the result of the referendum.

Yes, it's a Daily Mail link, but the story within is factual.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rexit.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You'd still get free movement for a small fee though, wouldn't you and perhaps, if a similar scheme from us allows us to stop random Lithuanians, Germans, Italians and Romanians with criminal records from entering, even for a holiday, that might be good. The two Italians accused of violent disorder in Liverpool this week were "known to the police". Maybe they had a record that would have stopped them coming across.

[Spijed]

EU travel Visa charges will be minimal, price of a couple of pints.
Wouldn't be surprised to see tour operators factor it straight into holiday/flight costs.

Tour operators generally don't factor visa costs into flights. They simply leave it to the tourists to sort it out for themselves. Too much administration involved otherwise they would have to pay the money to the relevant country.

All that will happen is that you'll either have to buy one online before you go or pay for one at the airport when you arrive, as you do now if you go to Turkey, for example.

[Rowls]

We've had this argument before, and no one has come with a solution to this.

That's not true.

The UK has put forward several high-tech and novel solutions to the problem. The EU however, is disregarding these possibilities because it actively wants to force the UK to remain in a customs union. The Irish government is pushing this because it wants to protect its own exports and its citizens ability to traverse the border.

Although we don't want a hard border with Ireland neither do we want to be coerced, as a sovereign nation, into a customs union which undermines our sovereignty.

[Socrates]

Firstly, it's obviously which country he is talking about.

But that’s not the name of the country.

People could start referring to a poster on here as “that arsehole”. But I doubt you’d like it because the name is incorrect and disrespectful.

[nil_desperandum]

That's not true.

The UK has put forward several high-tech and novel solutions to the problem. The EU however, is disregarding these possibilities because it actively wants to force the UK to remain in a customs union. The Irish government is pushing this because it wants to protect its own exports and its citizens ability to traverse the border.

Although we don't want a hard border with Ireland neither do we want to be coerced, as a sovereign nation, into a customs union which undermines our sovereignty.

But the suggestions that the UK has made are not compatible with WTO rules - that's the point.

[Rowls]

Reverting to WTO rules = hard border, so it would be our government's choice not the EUs, unless of course you put forward the argument that the EU is forcing us to leave, - and furthermore - to leave with no deal.

Big failure of logic here. We are leaving the EU. That does not mean that the EU is forcing us to leave with no deal.

Whether we leave with a deal or without a deal depends not on one side or the other but on co-operation between the two sides. It only takes one side to remain intransigent for the no deal scenario to come about.

Press reports suggest Britain is making the running in putting forward solutions to the border question, just as we did the running putting forward the solutions to the 'divorce bill' and on other aspects of the negotiations.

[martin_p]

That's not true.

The UK has put forward several high-tech and novel solutions to the problem. The EU however, is disregarding these possibilities because it actively wants to force the UK to remain in a customs union. The Irish government is pushing this because it wants to protect its own exports and its citizens ability to traverse the border.

Although we don't want a hard border with Ireland neither do we want to be coerced, as a sovereign nation, into a customs union which undermines our sovereignty.

Can you point us to the detail on these novel solutions?

[Greenmile]

That's not true.

The UK has put forward several high-tech and novel solutions to the problem. The EU however, is disregarding these possibilities because it actively wants to force the UK to remain in a customs union. The Irish government is pushing this because it wants to protect its own exports and its citizens ability to traverse the border.

Although we don't want a hard border with Ireland neither do we want to be coerced, as a sovereign nation, into a customs union which undermines our sovereignty.

Do you have a link for this? I’d be interested to read what these solutions would entail.

Edit - Martin beat me to it. I type really slow.

[UpTheBeehole]

That's not true.

The UK has put forward several high-tech and novel solutions to the problem. The EU however, is disregarding these possibilities because it actively wants to force the UK to remain in a customs union. The Irish government is pushing this because it wants to protect its own exports and its citizens ability to traverse the border.

Although we don't want a hard border with Ireland neither do we want to be coerced, as a sovereign nation, into a customs union which undermines our sovereignty.

Any proof of these novel solutions?

[nil_desperandum]

Big failure of logic here. We are leaving the EU. That does not mean that the EU is forcing us to leave with no deal.
.

No failure of logic. We either have some form of Customs union / arrangement, which May continues to rule out, or we revert to WTO rules.
So we either do some kind of deal on Customs Union or revert to WTO rules and have a hard border.
So far as I have read, the UK government has not come up with any suggestions that resolve this.
Edit: If you live in East Lancashire, unless you are very rich, having a hard border in Ireland will be the least of your problems if we leave the Customs Union and Single market. It's all about jobs and prosperity.

[joey13]

You wouldn’t get in my starting 11

[quoonbeatz]

That's not true.

The UK has put forward several high-tech and novel solutions to the problem.

hmmmm..... nope.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexi ... sh-border/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[KeighleyClaret]

You guys who voted leave voted to end the free movement of people within Europe. Shock, horror, the free movement of people within Europe is going to end!

[Heaton's Gloves]

Some right sad sacks on here. No names, no pack drill. You know who you are. Grow a pair ffs.

[ClaretCliff]

But that’s not the name of the country.

People could start referring to a poster on here as “that arsehole”. But I doubt you’d like it because the name is incorrect and disrespectful.

The problem with referring to a poster as "that arsehole" is not that it is incorrect or disrespectful- it's just too ambiguous, there are so many to choose from

[ClaretinMyBlood]

Tour operators generally don't factor visa costs into flights. They simply leave it to the tourists to sort it out for themselves. Too much administration involved otherwise they would have to pay the money to the relevant country.

All that will happen is that you'll either have to buy one online before you go or pay for one at the airport when you arrive, as you do now if you go to Turkey, for example.

Travelled to Cape Verde, Dominican & Cuba where this system has been operated by Tui & Thomas Cook, The price was included with the holiday & you simply filled your details out on a form provided by the tour operator & completed upon arrival in the destination country.

Makes it very easy for the traveller.

[thatdberight]

You guys who voted leave voted to end the free movement of people within Europe. Shock, horror, the free movement of people within Europe is going to end!

Well done for confusing holiday travel and the right to work. I might offer you a job and tell you you're on holiday all the time so I don't have to pay you.

[nil_desperandum]

Travelled to Cape Verde, Dominican & Cuba where this system has been operated by Tui & Thomas Cook, The price was included with the holiday & you simply filled your details out on a form provided by the tour operator & completed upon arrival in the destination country.

Makes it very easy for the traveller.

Yes, but also expensive.
As I understand it, an EU visa would be valid for 3 years. You wouldn't take one out with your tour operator each time you took a holiday.
Additionally, I don't think that the majority of journeys into the EU are made with travel companies. Most are independent travellers nowadays
(e.g. 50,000 each day using Eurostar alone. Many commuting every week. A 3 year EU travel visa would make much more sense).

[nil_desperandum]

Well done for confusing holiday travel and the right to work. I might offer you a job and tell you you're on holiday all the time so I don't have to pay you.

If only it were so simple.
Just to give you a personal example. My wife has frequently worked in the EU over the past couple of decades. I have frequently travelled with her - a good excuse for a cheap holiday.
Would you suggest that in future we have different visa arrangements because one is a worker and one a holidaymaker? We just seem to be complicating matters. I can see huge amounts of red-tape and bureaucracy replacing commonsense and pragmatism. (None of it good for the economy, and all of it impacting more on the poor than the better-off).

[Billyblah]

£6 for a EU visa?
Sounds like a good trade off. The beleaguered UK tax payer will no longer have to foot the bill for Spain's silky smooth roads. Though it is frustrating that we will continue to be clambering out of potholes for the next decade .

[thatdberight]

If only it were so simple.
Just to give you a personal example. My wife has frequently worked in the EU over the past couple of decades. I have frequently travelled with her - a good excuse for a cheap holiday.
Would you suggest that in future we have different visa arrangements because one is a worker and one a holidaymaker? We just seem to be complicating matters. I can see huge amounts of red-tape and bureaucracy replacing commonsense and pragmatism. (None of it good for the economy, and all of it impacting more on the poor than the better-off).

Yes, of course you should be treated differently. Your wife, assuming she's not an EU citizen, will need authority to work in the EU. You're simply replaying part of the stay/leave debate. If course it complicates matters. But it's worth it (or not according to your view) but clearly holiday makers and workers need different regimes. Personally, I'm happy with either no visa or visa waiver programmes. I'd prefer the former but if the EU decide on latter, so be it.

[nil_desperandum]

Yes, of course you should be treated differently. Your wife, assuming she's not an EU citizen, will need authority to work in the EU. You're simply replaying part of the stay/leave debate. If course it complicates matters. .

So suppose when I said I was holidaying with her I was actually working for her?
Or suppose I went out for a month and worked for her for a fortnight and then travelled down to the South of France for a couple of weeks in the sun.
How could anyone prove when I was working and when I was at leisure?
As I said, it's not the simple matter that you make it out to be, and checking up on something and enforcing it would undoubtedly cost more than than it would save.
(As it happens she is an EU citizen, but my case was hypothetical).

[thatdberight]

So suppose when I said I was holidaying with her I was actually working for her?
Or suppose I went out for a month and worked for her for a fortnight and then travelled down to the South of France for a couple of weeks in the sun.
How could anyone prove when I was working and when I was at leisure?
As I said, it's not the simple matter that you make it out to be, and checking up on something and enforcing it would undoubtedly cost more than than it would save.
(As it happens she is an EU citizen, but my case was hypothetical).

This "it's all too much bother, I can't be arsed" outlook? Would you apply it to everyone? Are you lobbying for anyone from anywhere to be able to work here without approval? People from, say, Serbia can't currently work in the UK at will. I don't dispute managing it and catching everyone who might break the law is not easy. But then, much law enforcement isn't easy; we don't usually just give up on it.

[nil_desperandum]

This "it's all too much bother, I can't be arsed" outlook? Would you apply it to everyone? Are you lobbying for anyone from anywhere to be able to work here without approval? People from, say, Serbia can't currently work in the UK at will. I don't dispute managing it and catching everyone who might break the law is not easy. But then, much law enforcement isn't easy; we don't usually just give up on it.

You're moving the goalposts. I didn't suggest anything that you have just written.
All I am saying is that things have worked pretty well - though obviously not without problems - over the past few decades. If we start having a complex visa / work permit system within the EU then it will be wide open to abuse, and most likely there will be many innocent victims, whilst others will exploit it for their own ends.
Not sure why you would single out Serbia. Like India it's not in the EU. The issue of how many workers can come to the UK will only arise when we try to conclude a trade deal with these countries. This is one of the real challenges that we are up against if we try to negotiate a deal with a huge market like India