Lancashire League - Shock news!

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:06 am

Rishton won a game!

Dressinggown · Post by **Dressinggown** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:13 am

'House beat Clitheroe.

Longsidelenny · Post by **Longsidelenny** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:17 am

Clitheroe don't look as strong this year now they have stopped paying the amutures

TopCat · Post by **TopCat** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:27 am

Colne all out for 36
Nelson 37-0

TVC15 · Post by **TVC15** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:44 am

Longsidelenny wrote:Clitheroe don't look as strong this year now they have stopped paying the amutures

Now they’ve stopped cheating

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:53 am

The players who the allegations were raised against are all still playing at Clitheroe. Two played yesterday the other missed with a broken finger ( not sure if they operate a sick pay scheme)

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:56 am

Leisure wrote:Rishton won a game!

A game of what?

joey13 · Post by **joey13** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:08 am

Munters used to play for Clitheroe ?

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:52 am

TopCat wrote:Colne all out for 36
Nelson 37-0

Apparently, this was done and dusted by just after 3 O'Clock !!

Leisure · Post by **Leisure** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:02 am

Foulthrow wrote:A game of what?

Croquet.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:00 pm

Ah. Makes sense. For a minute I thought you meant cricket.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:38 pm

TopCat wrote:Colne all out for 36
Nelson 37-0

Had the kettle even boiled for the between innings tea?

ShakyLee · Post by **ShakyLee** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:33 pm

Amazingly they did have a tea interval before Nelson batted, after Colne's innings ended at 2.10pm!

Burnley1989 · Post by **Burnley1989** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:52 pm

ShakyLee wrote:Amazingly they did have a tea interval before Nelson batted, after Colne's innings ended at 2.10pm!

I’ve nothing against Harry Brooks and he’s done a lot of good for both Lowerhouse & Burnley Cricket over the years but a Lowerhouse club president having flyers posted through doors in Clitheroe explaining his disgust at the way the won they league (paying amateurs) was an odd one.

Cubanclaret · Post by **Cubanclaret** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:07 pm

Burnley1989 wrote:I’ve nothing against Harry Brooks and he’s done a lot of good for both Lowerhouse & Burnley Cricket over the years but a Lowerhouse club president having flyers posted through doors in Clitheroe explaining his disgust at the way the won they league (paying amateurs) was an odd one.

I live round the corner from Chatburn Rd and had the pleasure of receiving one, more a dossier than a flyer. Interesting read. More informative than ‘The Herald’ or ‘The Carrier Pidgeon’ that’s for sure.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:19 pm

Cubanclaret wrote:I live round the corner from Chatburn Rd and had the pleasure of receiving one, more a dossier than a flyer. Interesting read. More informative than ‘The Herald’ or ‘The Carrier Pidgeon’ that’s for sure.

Can you post it on here?

Cubanclaret · Post by **Cubanclaret** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:03 pm

Not really for me to do that QTT. Plus its at least 20 pages long. I'm sure now its in the public domain it will be swimming around on the internet soon enough.

conyoviejo · Post by **conyoviejo** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:07 pm

@ Colne ...

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:11 pm

Cubanclaret wrote:Not really for me to do that QTT. Plus its at least 20 pages long. I'm sure now its in the public domain it will be swimming around on the internet soon enough.

Wowsers 20 pages long?

Is the man all there?

I only asked as letter box posting is putting it out in the public eye. (as well as annoying the householder).

timshorts · Post by **timshorts** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:15 pm

Leisure wrote:Croquet.

You can only win 26-0 at croquet. Should try it. Ignore that 'first through each hoop' golf croquet which is pants. Association croquet is excellent in the good weather.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:17 pm

Ultimately I think (quite rightly) everyone involved in the actual cricket has now buried the hatchet and moved on. Clitheroe made a point of posting a very positive and conciliatory tweet following yesterday's game which was rather nice tbh.

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:35 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Ultimately I think (quite rightly) everyone involved in the actual cricket has now buried the hatchet and moved on. Clitheroe made a point of posting a very positive and conciliatory tweet following yesterday's game which was rather nice tbh.

I agree. Everything was very friendly yesterday amongst everyone concerned.
For what it is worth regarding the allegations...Lowerhouse are the ones who are getting the flak for raising the protest but it was a well talked about point during many games and amongst many supporters of different clubs. I thought it was all in jest until the allegation was made.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:40 pm

Not the lowest score of the season. Milnrow made 35 in one game, if I remember rightly.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:47 pm

Somethingfishy wrote:I agree. Everything was very friendly yesterday amongst everyone concerned.
For what it is worth regarding the allegations...Lowerhouse are the ones who are getting the flak for raising the protest but it was a well talked about point during many games and amongst many supporters of different clubs. I thought it was all in jest until the allegation was made.

Yes, absolutely true. Lowerhouse ended being tagged as the "banner carriers" on the issue, but several other clubs were party to the complaint, even if it was behind the scenes and one club in particular actually made allegations before Lowerhouse were even involved.
However, it's all water under the bridge and the first fixture between the 2 clubs since passed off well and the cricket took centre stage.

Stalbansclaret · Post by **Stalbansclaret** » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:28 pm

I turned up at Colne yesterday at 2.50pm to find people leaving the ground and the game all over ! Unbelievable. Bad news not just on the cricketing front as the damage to the bar and tearoom takings must be painful too !!

arise_sir_charge · Post by **arise_sir_charge** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:50 am

In 2014 when Lowerhouse won the league we had a spell of steam rollering teams and were chasing less than 100 week on week. Games were over with by 5pm most weeks. I estimate it cost around £5k minimum in lost bar takings!

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:47 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Yes, absolutely true. Lowerhouse ended being tagged as the "banner carriers" on the issue, but several other clubs were party to the complaint, even if it was behind the scenes and one club in particular actually made allegations before Lowerhouse were even involved.
However, it's all water under the bridge and the first fixture between the 2 clubs since passed off well and the cricket took centre stage.

Got my booklet today through the post "The Clitheroe Affair" .Makes very interesting reading.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:59 am

And in even more shock news, a win for the mighty Colne! When the scoreboard said one team had made 167 and the other was 22-5, naturally I assumed Colne were batting second. But no! A 41 run win in the end after a late flurry from James Hayhurst. Adam Holt got 51 and James Price 43 (approx.) for Colne.

RammyClaret61 · Post by **RammyClaret61** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:34 am

dsr, only half the story. Who did they beat?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:56 am

RammyClaret61 wrote:dsr, only half the story. Who did they beat?

I don't know, but they can't have been very good.

(Accrington, actually.)

TheFamilyCat · Post by **TheFamilyCat** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:04 am

dsr wrote:I don't know, but they can't have been very good.

(Accrington under 15's, actually.)

jrgbfc · Post by **jrgbfc** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:31 pm

Yeah I was on the Horsfield last night Colne played well, think the embarrassment of last weekend's debacle against Nelson fired them up a bit! Good to see some of the amateurs chipping in with some runs, great 50 by Adam Holt at the top of the order.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:41 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:Got my booklet today through the post "The Clitheroe Affair" .Makes very interesting reading.

Got mine too, but have only glanced and haven't read it properly yet. But without even reading it my feelings are just let it bloody lie!

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:47 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:Got mine too, but have only glanced and haven't read it properly yet. But without even reading it my feelings are just let it bloody lie!

Anywhere that non-Clitheroe residents can read this? Intrigued now.

ŽižkovClaret · Post by **ŽižkovClaret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:57 pm

TopCat wrote:Colne all out for 36
Nelson 37-0

What exactly was the point of all that bucket shaking? Let them die or merge with Nelson if that's the best they can do

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:14 pm

Foulthrow wrote:Anywhere that non-Clitheroe residents can read this? Intrigued now.

Can't understand why he hasn't put this online if he actually wants people to read it and to get a reaction.
Instead he wastes money (and paper) having it printed, and has it distributed in an area where most people probably aren't interested.
It's obviously time to move on, but I would have been quite interested to read what it says that we haven't already heard.

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:18 pm

nil_desperandum wrote:Can't understand why he hasn't put this online if he actually wants people to read it and to get a reaction.
Instead he wastes money (and paper) having it printed, and has it distributed in an area where most people probably aren't interested.
It's obviously time to move on, but I would have been quite interested to read what it says that we haven't already heard.

I'm guessing it's some cranky old bloke who has no clue what the internet is.

Top Claret · Post by **Top Claret** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:04 pm

Rattanstall rained off

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:12 pm

Foulthrow wrote:Anywhere that non-Clitheroe residents can read this? Intrigued now.

I've read it now. 16 long and interesting pages, but as a member of a Lancs League club (not Clitheroe and I don't live in Clitheroe) it actually didn't tell me much, if anything, I didn't already know. I received my copy unsolicited through the post yesterday and I know other club members have too. I'm sure if you're not a member of a club it won't be hard to get hold of a copy, as from reading this thread there must be tons floating around.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:39 pm

ZizkovClaret wrote:What exactly was the point of all that bucket shaking? Let them die or merge with Nelson if that's the best they can do

Well, it's obviously not the best they can do, as you would have known if you'd read the posts about beating Accrington.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:59 pm

Dark Cloud wrote:I've read it now. 16 long and interesting pages, but as a member of a Lancs League club (not Clitheroe and I don't live in Clitheroe) it actually didn't tell me much, if anything, I didn't already know. I received my copy unsolicited through the post yesterday and I know other club members have too. I'm sure if you're not a member of a club it won't be hard to get hold of a copy, as from reading this thread there must be tons floating around.

Does he claim some kind of copyright on this, or could someone scan and post this document on here?

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:30 am

nil_desperandum wrote:Does he claim some kind of copyright on this, or could someone scan and post this document on here?

I received mine possibly because I am a Lowerhouse CC member.I had heard of a lot ofthe allegations but some of the details were new to me.

Some very strange decisions were arrived at by Lancashie League officials who it appears did not really have the stomach to deal with the issues.

The subject of paid players/coaches could do with some clarification then all clubs can move on.If clubs have the cash then pay who you want.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:30 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote:I received mine possibly because I am a Lowerhouse CC member.I had heard of a lot ofthe allegations but some of the details were new to me.

Some very strange decisions were arrived at by Lancashie League officials who it appears did not really have the stomach to deal with the issues.

The subject of paid players/coaches could do with some clarification then all clubs can move on.If clubs have the cash then pay who you want.

Your final sentence, My Lord, just about sums the whole affair up and gets to the absolute heart of the matter. In many leagues teams can pay whoever they want, but in the Lancs League and the Ribb league there is a strict rule of ONE professional per team and no one else is to be paid. I initially thought why not just scrap this as it really is almost impossible to "police" and very easy to get round if clubs want to be underhand about it. (Clitheroe were clearly not very clever and were easily caught out). From what I hear other clubs have "probably" transgressed in the past and may even be doing so now perhaps using the term "coach" or "assistant groundsman" to allow paying certain extra players. Thus it would seem easier to just do away with the rule on the surface. The big BUT comes however when you see that what would happen is the money bags clubs would just attract and pay all the best local talent and the have not's would be rooted to the foot of the league indefinitely and probably fold. Clitheroe clearly have plenty of money in relation to other clubs. So do Burnley who generate a fortune from beer sales during the footy season. Lowerhouse are very well supported, Norden have an amazing club house and facilities and there are others too. I travel round the grounds and some of the other clubs clearly have far, far less and find it far harder to generate meaningful income off the field which then supports the cricket. These clubs are probably struggling to pay one player, never mind 8 or 9.

RocketLawnChair · Post by **RocketLawnChair** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:39 pm

Lord Rothbury wrote: The subject of paid players/coaches could do with some clarification then all clubs can move on.If clubs have the cash then pay who you want.

Example — So Accrington take a player right through the age groups from 7 years old and by the time he’s 19/20 turn the player into a consistent league performer and then Ramsbottom offer said player £100 a game that Accrington simply can’t afford. Not for me thanks..Sadly amateur sports don’t have transfer markets where you can recoup some of your time and investment.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:46 pm

The richer clubs generally fair better as they have more money to bring in better pro's.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:02 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:The richer clubs generally fair better as they have more money to bring in better pro's.

That's true, but simply removing the rule on paid players allowing clubs to have as many as they like would make things a whole lot worse. As said above, all the decent young talent would be hoovered up by the richer clubs by the time lads were 17/18 and the clubs where they learned their game and were developed would be left constantly struggling for enough players of the required standard.

Somethingfishy · Post by **Somethingfishy** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:01 pm

To some extent it is difficult to keep the balance within the league. As has been said some teams have more revenue streams than others. These teams can then afford more coaches, more junior teams and have more chance of bringing through good younger players. I guess it is up to the smaller teams to find ways of generating revenue..much the same as in football.
Making it possible to pay any amount of players will not work..the gap will get wider. It would be akin to the removal of the minimum wage in football..allowing the big city clubs to dominate and pay more.
The two division system will make it interesting although i have a feeling that it may end up with the teams that went down coming straight back up quite often and vice-versa. The financial gap between the haves and have nots is i fear quite large.

Quickenthetempo · Post by **Quickenthetempo** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:10 pm

It's always hard retaining good youth players as in the past Lancashire coaches have told players to move to better leagues, bigger clubs and to play on faster decks.
So introducing payments might even that up somewhat. We wouldn't know until it was tried.
Some clubs wouldn't employ the overseas pro instead using his wages to fund 7 or 8 good ams.

Dark Cloud · Post by **Dark Cloud** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:13 pm

Somethingfishy wrote:To some extent it is difficult to keep the balance within the league. As has been said some teams have more revenue streams than others. These teams can then afford more coaches, more junior teams and have more chance of bringing through good younger players. I guess it is up to the smaller teams to find ways of generating revenue..much the same as in football.
Making it possible to pay any amount of players will not work..the gap will get wider. It would be akin to the removal of the minimum wage in football..allowing the big city clubs to dominate and pay more.
The two division system will make it interesting although i have a feeling that it may end up with the teams that went down coming straight back up quite often and vice-versa. The financial gap between the haves and have nots is i fear quite large.

Absolutely spot on there. The have nots tend to be clubs where for one reason or another they struggle to recruit that vital army of volunteers who do anything and everything behind the scenes, including being very proactive when looking at ways to maximise their revenue. Some clubs are also very lucky to have people who are happy and willing to coach younger teams and take them to fixtures etc and this helps create a thriving social side with plenty of functions using the bar and facilities. Other clubs are being run on a shoe string by a tiny number of people giving up their time and if only one or two of those walks away for whatever reason there's nobody willing to fill the gap.

bfcmik · Post by **bfcmik** » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:15 pm

back to the cricket I was flabbergasted to see how the D/L method meant Lowerhouse had to score 38 runs MORE than Norden to win their reduced overs Worsley cup match yesterday. Norden were restricted to 113/5 in their 40 overs but Lowerhouse had to make 151 in the same 40 overs to win - which they duly did to set up a semi-final at home to Crompton on July 8th.