Premier league giants don't you know.

Let's be fair about him, before he got the England job how many supporters up and down the country thought he was good enough or even wanted him to be manager of the full England team?

After Big Sam left under a cloud the perception for many was that the England job was a poisoned chalice and Southgate only got it because no-one else was going to touch it with a barge pole, unless they were offered silly amounts of money!

It is rare that a good club manager steps up to being a good international team manager. The two jobs seem to require very different talents and character.

Given how he had the U21's playing and how successful he was, he was my first choice for the England role.

He is an intelligent man and has learned what is required in International Football.

Spent quite a bit of time watching us here last year....

No ones telling me he hasn’t learnt anything from SD.

bobinho wrote:Spent quite a bit of time watching us here last year....

No ones telling me he hasn’t learnt anything from SD.

Beat me to it!

bobinho wrote:Spent quite a bit of time watching us here last year....

No ones telling me he hasn’t learnt anything from SD.

Going off our set pieces, I think he's stayed in touch with Sam allardyce!

Not me! Having watched the u21 several times, I didn’t think he had this in him at all. He u21 games I watched we horrid turgid affairs which left me thinking he was useless. If it comes home you’d better all serve me humble pie

bfcmik wrote:It is rare that a good club manager steps up to being a good international team manager. The two jobs seem to require very different talents and character.

Except Ipswich's Alf and Bobby!!!

Chris Coleman guided Wales to the semi finals.

Japebe43 wrote:Going off our set pieces, I think he's stayed in touch with Sam allardyce!

At least we now have our danger men in the danger area, as opposed to taking the corners/free kicks...

I still shudder when I think of this.

bfcmik wrote:It is rare that a good club manager steps up to being a good international team manager. The two jobs seem to require very different talents and character.

And as Joachim Low has shown, you can go from being a great international manager to a poor one, all in the space of four years!

Let's not get too carried away. Steve McClaren could of managed this team to the semi's with the draw they have had!

I do like the back 3 system of Walker, Stones & Maguire that he's created though and he deserves credit.

BigChaCha wrote:Let's not get too carried away. Steve McClaren could of managed this team to the semi's with the draw they have had!

I do like the back 3 system of Walker, Stones & Maguire that he's created though and he deserves credit.

McClaren couldn't even get us past the qualifiers when he was in charge

BigChaCha wrote:Let's not get too carried away. Steve McClaren could of managed this team to the semi's with the draw they have had!

I do like the back 3 system of Walker, Stones & Maguire that he's created though and he deserves credit.

If it is so easy I wonder why this is only the 3rd time we have reached this stage?

BigChaCha wrote:Let's not get too carried away. Steve McClaren could of managed this team to the semi's with the draw they have had!

Laughable. It’s hilarious how some people just can’t ever accept that they were wrong. Some are still determined to not get behind the national team and enjoy this relative success. Their loss I suppose.

Southgate has done a great job. You could see the progress throughout the qualifying campaign and it’s culminated in our most successful tournament in decades, and may still prove to be the most successful ever.

The draw has been reasonably favourable to us but we’ve played teams who have helped to dispose of some of the so called better teams. Who’s to say we wouldn’t have knocked our Germany or Brazil if the draw had been different?

Does anyone remember how lucky England were in 66 to have a semi-final opponent so **** that they were 3-0 down to North Korea in the previous round? No. Do you think back then people were talking about how lucky Alf Ramsey had it and that really he's useless? Maybe. Were those people morons? Absolutely.

Keep being morons.

Spijed wrote:And as Joachim Low has shown, you can go from being a great international manager to a poor one, all in the space of four years!

Since when did we think it was good to judge managers on three games?

“reasonably favourable”?

An understatement if ever there was one. I fully expect Southgate to be ‘found out’ in the semi final and hopefully that will put an end to that embarrassing primeval scream he comes out with at the end of the games.

I think the lesson on Southgate is that media perception doesn't always reflect the competence of a given individual. Southgate is currently seen as being highly intelligent, tactically astute, capable of huge attention to detail and as a really impressive, authoritative leader who has instilled old fashioned value of humility, etc. in the England team. All of those things are probably true, albeit they're no doubt over hyped right now.

Equally, none of those things will be new. So when despite having those qualities, he wasn't getting interviews for Championship jobs he applied for, and wasn't even making the first paper sift of Premier League jobs, it seems reasonable to assume some pretty unfair general perceptions were to blame. His record at Boro wasn't that bad, when taken in context, but it wasn't well perceived.

Apart from anything else, that's probably something to bear in mind the next time Burnley are looking for a new manager. Whether a manager is in or out of fashion doesn't always reflect their ability or otherwise to do the job, certainly not in a particular type of environment.

dermotdermot wrote:“reasonably favourable”?

An understatement if ever there was one. I fully expect Southgate to be ‘found out’ in the semi final and hopefully that will put an end to that embarrassing primeval scream he comes out with at the end of the games.

Like I say, your loss. Most of the country are enjoying the success of the national team - those wishing we are ‘found out’ in the semi final are more embarrassing than Southgate’s primeval scream.

dermotdermot wrote:“reasonably favourable”?

An understatement if ever there was one. I fully expect Southgate to be ‘found out’ in the semi final and hopefully that will put an end to that embarrassing primeval scream he comes out with at the end of the games.

If you are English and the above reflects your WC experience I find it quite sad.

claretspice wrote:I think the lesson on Southgate is that media perception doesn't always reflect the competence of a given individual. Southgate is currently seen as being highly intelligent, tactically astute, capable of huge attention to detail and as a really impressive, authoritative leader who has instilled old fashioned value of humility, etc. in the England team. All of those things are probably true, albeit they're no doubt over hyped right now.

Equally, none of those things will be new. So when despite having those qualities, he wasn't getting interviews for Championship jobs he applied for, and wasn't even making the first paper sift of Premier League jobs, it seems reasonable to assume some pretty unfair general perceptions were to blame. His record at Boro wasn't that bad, when taken in context.

Apart from anything else, that's probably something to bear in mind the next time Burnley are looking for a new manager. Whether a manager is in or out of fashion doesn't always reflect their ability or otherwise to do the job, certainly not in a particular type of environment.

I don't know what it is about football fans and their exaggerated perceptions of managers. It's perceieved that McClaren was useless as a manager because England didnt' qualify for Euro 2008 under him, yet he got Boro their first ever major trophy, and took them to the Uefa Cup final. Do useless managers achieve that?

I always thought Southgate was a busted flush however, I’m happy to say he’s proving me wrong and long may he continue to do so.

BennyD wrote:I always thought Southgate was a busted flush however, I’m happy to say he’s proving me wrong and long may he continue to do so.

You're in the same boat as the majority. I thought Southgate was a dreadful appointment but I have clearly been proved to be totally wrong. This world cup has been brilliant.

Imploding Turtle wrote:I don't know what it is about football fans and their exaggerated perceptions of managers. It's perceieved that McClaren was useless as a manager because England didnt' qualify for Euro 2008 under him, yet he got Boro their first ever major trophy, and took them to the Uefa Cup final. Do useless managers achieve that?

McLaren is an interesting one because his record is extremely patchy - some great periods, some pretty disastrous spells.

A lot of this comes down to the manager being a good fit for a particular environment. It is something Burnley have got right quite a bit in the past, and occasionally got wrong. Other clubs who chase the latest fashionable name or type of manager have more chequered records.

Rileybobs wrote:Like I say, your loss. Most of the country are enjoying the success of the national team - those wishing we are ‘found out’ in the semi final are more embarrassing than Southgate’s primeval scream.

No one said anything ’wishing’. The word ‘expect’ was used. I’m enjoying this World Cup against all odds, but haven’t been particularly impressed with England’s style of play. They couldn’t have been luckier with the draw. I would have liked at least one epic encounter by now. I find it hard to get behind them and preferred the teams of say 1990 and 98.

I could also do without the jingoistic fervour that surrounds us at present. I don’t see the need to smash up ambulances and invade Ikea stores. It just doesn’t appeal to me.

Up until the Germany game we were sh*t in 1990 and in the group stages Bobby Robson was getting dogs abuse from the fans and the press

dermotdermot wrote:No one said anything ’wishing’. The word ‘expect’ was used. I’m enjoying this World Cup against all odds, but haven’t been particularly impressed with England’s style of play. They couldn’t have been luckier with the draw. I would have liked at least one epic encounter by now. I find it hard to get behind them and preferred the teams of say 1990 and 98.

I could also do without the jingoistic fervour that surrounds us at present. I don’t see the need to smash up ambulances and invade Ikea stores. It just doesn’t appeal to me.

If only there was some kind of middle ground between being miserably negative and smashing up ambulances.