The clearest indicator to me yet that the most powerful people in most countries are the intelligence services.

lol. He couldn't even get through his prepared statements without completely undermining his prepared statements.

The guy's a Russian asset. It's never been more clear, and we're at the stage where anyone who disagrees either isn't paying attention enough to be well enough informed, or is an apologist for a country that has attacked several western democracies including our own.

Imploding Turtle wrote:lol. He couldn't even get through his prepared statements without completely undermining his prepared statements.

The guy's a Russian asset. It's never been more clear, and we're at the stage where anyone who disagrees either isn't paying attention enough to be well enough informed, or is an apologist for a country that has attacked several western democracies including our own.

Come on where has the democracy gone and freedom.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Bfcboyo wrote:Come on where has the democracy gone and freedom.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Russia has been proven guilty. You're trying to apply the individual right of innocent until proven guilty to a nation state as if you seem to think that an entire country is put on trial when they attack another country and judgement is made only when they are convicted. That's such a desperate attempt at apologism.

I love Trump, no matter how crap a day I might have I know I'm not as dumb as the President of the United States !

The mans people skills and finesse are just totally non-existent.

I think Trump is/is not/is not not the best thing going in the world at the moment. He is clearly totally not not thick and is not not reliant on people not believing his lies which may or maybe not be true. I am so pleased I don't get my double double triple negatives all mixed up when making important world speeches (ok, I have not not done any world speeches!?) but I would/wouldn't hope that I would/wouldn't get it it all not mixed up so I make total sense so there isn't not any confusion.

Lies, lies, lies. The man will say anything to get what he wants.

Trump is not an idiot and to dismiss him as such is wrong. However he is also clearly neither a politician nor a diplomat and this is self evident in what he says and does. Nor in my view does he have the gravitas to be the President of the good old US of A. Again he acts like a kid in a candy store.

If as IT suggests he has been compromised by the Russians I am sure the American Secret Service will do there best to ensure that any damage is kept to a minimum and that should Trump decide to stand for office a second time that they ensure he does not succeed.

Trump is a narcissist.

Even if I was a bit of a racist, I'd be starting to have my doubts about him now.

In his prepared remarks yesterday he even crossed out a line about bringing those responsible for the election interference and hacking to justice. Lol

NottsClaret wrote:Even if I was a bit of a racist, I'd be starting to have my doubts about him now.

They like Putin though. They liked him when Obama was president because they liked to pretend he dominated the black guy they hated. Even Republicans in Congress were talking about how they wished Obama was more like Putin.

And it was the ONLY thing he crossed out.
https://mobile.twitter.com/christinawil ... 6273526784" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vegas Claret wrote:I love Trump, no matter how crap a day I might have I know I'm not as dumb as the President of the United States !

Careful, he'll challenge you to an IQ test.

Imploding Turtle wrote:lol. He couldn't even get through his prepared statements without completely undermining his prepared statements.

The guy's a Russian asset. It's never been more clear, and we're at the stage where anyone who disagrees either isn't paying attention enough to be well enough informed, or is an apologist for a country that has attacked several western democracies including our own.

Why do you spout such utter rubbish? Even to the point where you are pre-empting disagreement by saying people aren't paying attention. Trump is the arch capitalist head of the most capitalist nation on earth, Russia is the antithesis of everything he stands for. Why would he want to enhance anything about Russia? No one has to be an apologist for Russia to realise you are fantasizing.

houseboy wrote:Why do you spout such utter rubbish? Even to the point where you are pre-empting disagreement by saying people aren't paying attention. Trump is the arch capitalist head of the most capitalist nation on earth, Russia is the antithesis of everything he stands for. Why would he want to enhance anything about Russia? No one has to be an apologist for Russia to realise you are fantasizing.

Lol.

I also said uninformed. That would cover you.

houseboy wrote:Why do you spout such utter rubbish? Even to the point where you are pre-empting disagreement by saying people aren't paying attention. Trump is the arch capitalist head of the most capitalist nation on earth, Russia is the antithesis of everything he stands for. Why would he want to enhance anything about Russia? No one has to be an apologist for Russia to realise you are fantasizing.

So why did he say he believed Russia had done nothing wrong and was very complimentary about Russia and Putin if they are the opposite of everything he stands for?

Imploding Turtle wrote:Lol.

I also said uninformed. That would cover you.

You just carry on with your conspiracy theories mate, I'm sure somebody somewhere believes you.

Imploding Turtle wrote:The guy's a Russian asset.

Everything you say makes me laugh. Out loud.

Backing him or supporting him when you are not a US citizen is more than a bit weird.

At best, he's just completely incompetent, at worst, well, he's what he certainly looks like.

I reckon he's toast now, he's forgotten that most Americans watch "Red Dawn" and believe its fact.

Spijed wrote:So why did he say he believed Russia had done nothing wrong and was very complimentary about Russia and Putin if they are the opposite of everything he stands for?

It's called diplomacy bud, it's what politicians do when the world is in tension in order to try to defuse things. Trump is not very good at it. He is saying these things but having trouble with it because he probably doesn't believe what he's saying. The last thing the world needs is for a good old fashioned head-to-head between the worlds two biggest super-powers. What people like Exploding Tortoise don't understand is that politicians say things they don't mean all the time, it's just rhetoric. Trump is everything America stands for and as such the likelihood of him being hand in glove with ANY president of Russia is faint in the extreme. What he cannot say is 'I think Putin is a liar and a murderer and a destroyer of democracy'.

I am no fan of Trump. He has many, many faults and is still learning how to be a politician but be sure of one thing, he is not the idiot that many seem to think he is. You don't get to be mega-wealthy being an idiot. You don't get to be President of America being an idiot. And as for any people or negotiational skills let me tell you as someone who has worked in sales and marketing for many years, he is one of the best SALESMEN I have ever seen.

To even suggest that Trump is somehow a Russian stooge is to totally ignore what he stands for and completely fail to understand the society that spawned him.

houseboy wrote:It's called diplomacy bud, it's what politicians do when the world is in tension in order to try to defuse things.

If it's diplomacy why is he now completely backtracking on what he said?

How will that defuse things?

And diplomacy is NOT criticising your own intelligence agencies.

Spijed wrote:If it's diplomacy why is he now completely backtracking on what he said?

How will that defuse things?

Because as I said he isn't very good at it. As a leading politician he needs it but isn't in love with it because it's not something that comes naturally to a man who is used to getting his own way and walking all over people if he doesn't. Remember that most politicians have advisers and sometimes the advice goes contrary to that politicians natural inclination so it becomes awkward for them to say things they may not agree with and Trump, for all his many faults, tends to be honest to the point of being rude. He is not used to being told how to act or what to say by others but he is having to learn because total honesty in politics and 'saying what you think' would lead to chaos and conflict.

Back tracking and denial are all part of the game, our politicians do it all the time but are not so high profile.

He quite obviously is not an idiot (despite what some say) but you really do have to sit and wonder at times how he got where he did.

I think even he does.

So if he's not an idiot, then he's a Russian tool.

It might be better for the world if he is an idiot to be perfectly honest.

houseboy wrote:It's called diplomacy bud, it's what politicians do when the world is in tension in order to try to defuse things. Trump is not very good at it. He is saying these things but having trouble with it because he probably doesn't believe what he's saying. The last thing the world needs is for a good old fashioned head-to-head between the worlds two biggest super-powers. What people like Exploding Tortoise don't understand is that politicians say things they don't mean all the time, it's just rhetoric. Trump is everything America stands for and as such the likelihood of him being hand in glove with ANY president of Russia is faint in the extreme. What he cannot say is 'I think Putin is a liar and a murderer and a destroyer of democracy'.

I am no fan of Trump. He has many, many faults and is still learning how to be a politician but be sure of one thing, he is not the idiot that many seem to think he is. You don't get to be mega-wealthy being an idiot. You don't get to be President of America being an idiot. And as for any people or negotiational skills let me tell you as someone who has worked in sales and marketing for many years, he is one of the best SALESMEN I have ever seen.

To even suggest that Trump is somehow a Russian stooge is to totally ignore what he stands for and completely fail to understand the society that spawned him.

Attacking your own intelligence services and instead publicly supporting the man who ordered an attack on your country isn't diplomacy.

Imploding Turtle wrote:Attacking your own intelligence services and instead publicly supporting the man who ordered an attack on your country isn't diplomacy.

Actually bud it is, very much so, because you don't have to be diplomatic towards those close to you. Publicly 'praising' Putin is one thing, meaning it is another. A quick conversation with his own people is all he needs. Diplomacy is, by it's very nature, not founded on telling the truth, if lies and half lies were not needed occasionally there would be no need for diplomacy. Diplomacy is actually the art of NOT speaking your mind, try telling the truth when your wife asks does my bum look big in this when you actually think it does. I think you would get a hard lesson in diplomacy at that point.

They've shown him the pictures of him with the Russian prostitute behind closed doors, that's why he was praising Russia. They have him by the balls, as she did.

houseboy wrote:Actually bud it is, very much so, because you don't have to be diplomatic towards those close to you. Publicly 'praising' Putin is one thing, meaning it is another. A quick conversation with his own people is all he needs. Diplomacy is, by it's very nature, not founded on telling the truth, if lies and half lies were not needed occasionally there would be no need for diplomacy. Diplomacy is actually the art of NOT speaking your mind, try telling the truth when your wife asks does my bum look big in this when you actually think it does. I think you would get a hard lesson in diplomacy at that point.

What is it about defending an enemy against your own country after that enemy has attacked your country that you think is OK?

Imploding Turtle wrote:What is it about defending an enemy against your own country after that enemy has attacked your country that you think is OK?

You really are a bit gullible aren't you mate? You actually believe all that the government and media put out don't you? We are not at war with anyone so to describe Russia or anyone else as the 'enemy' is purely fanciful. Did you believe about the WOMD in Iraq? I bet you did didn't you? Well I never did, I doubted it from the word go and in the end who was right? Correct, those of us who didn't believe the government. Did you believe in attacking another country to displace it's leader? Is Iraq better for it? Do you think our country is right to be friends with Israel despite what is happening in Palestine? Our government blames Russia for what has happened here recently and it may or may not be true but we only have our governments word for it. This government is having a terrible time at the moment to the point where we hardly have one and at times like this it is quite normal for a government to create a bogeyman to deflect from problems at home. Why do you think Thatcher won a general election at a time when her popularity was in the doldrums? Because we went to war with Argentina, a war that, with talks and diplomacy (there's that word again) could possibly have been avoided.

My points are made safe in the knowledge that:
A. Governments lie all the time to get themselves out of a bad place.
B. To the best of my knowledge we are not at this time at war with Russia therefore they are not the 'enemy'.
C. If we were at war with Russia we would be even further from the truth because truth goes right out of the window in the event of war.

houseboy wrote:Actually bud it is, very much so, because you don't have to be diplomatic towards those close to you. Publicly 'praising' Putin is one thing, meaning it is another. A quick conversation with his own people is all he needs. Diplomacy is, by it's very nature, not founded on telling the truth, if lies and half lies were not needed occasionally there would be no need for diplomacy. Diplomacy is actually the art of NOT speaking your mind, try telling the truth when your wife asks does my bum look big in this when you actually think it does. I think you would get a hard lesson in diplomacy at that point.

He wasn't being diplomatic. He was sucking up to Putin because he's a coward with tiny hands who's in awe of 'strongmen' and dictators.

Then when he got home, someone pointed out it was a little bit 'treasonish' so he tried to ludicrously squirm out of what he said, again, because he's a coward. You might agree with the wall, the racism and stuff like that, but let's not kid ourselves he's playing some masterful game. He's a chancer, the Korean lad and Putin are playing him and he's running out of options.

NottsClaret wrote:He wasn't being diplomatic. He was sucking up to Putin because he's a coward with tiny hands who's in awe of 'strongmen' and dictators.

Then when he got home, someone pointed out it was a little bit 'treasonish' so he tried to ludicrously squirm out of what he said, again, because he's a coward. You might agree with the wall, the racism and stuff like that, but let's not kid ourselves he's playing some masterful game. He's a chancer, the Korean lad and Putin are playing him and he's running out of options.

And of course you know all this because? Trump is many things but I very much doubt that 'coward' is one of them. Cowardice does not make American billionaires mate.
Listen, I don't like Trump but I don't let that dislike allow me to make claims about him that I cannot verify. I also don't think that one of the best salesmen in the world could be played by anyone. He's been playing the game for years.

His hand size is irrelevant so by making such a statement you showed your inability to be unbiased and objective.

Lancasterclaret wrote:Backing him or supporting him when you are not a US citizen is more than a bit weird.

At best, he's just completely incompetent, at worst, well, he's what he certainly looks like.

I reckon he's toast now, he's forgotten that most Americans watch "Red Dawn" and believe its fact.

His approval ratings have gone up in the past few days ...

Cool

On the plus side it does mean that "Red Dawn" isn't as popular as I thought it was, and thats a good thing!

aggi wrote:His approval ratings have gone up in the past few days ...

Polling done in last few days, or polling done last week and only released last few days? Gallup release their weekly poll on Sundays, for example.

houseboy wrote:You really are a bit gullible aren't you mate? You actually believe all that the government and media put out don't you? We are not at war with anyone so to describe Russia or anyone else as the 'enemy' is purely fanciful. Did you believe about the WOMD in Iraq? I bet you did didn't you? Well I never did, I doubted it from the word go and in the end who was right? Correct, those of us who didn't believe the government. Did you believe in attacking another country to displace it's leader? Is Iraq better for it? Do you think our country is right to be friends with Israel despite what is happening in Palestine? Our government blames Russia for what has happened here recently and it may or may not be true but we only have our governments word for it. This government is having a terrible time at the moment to the point where we hardly have one and at times like this it is quite normal for a government to create a bogeyman to deflect from problems at home. Why do you think Thatcher won a general election at a time when her popularity was in the doldrums? Because we went to war with Argentina, a war that, with talks and diplomacy (there's that word again) could possibly have been avoided.

My points are made safe in the knowledge that:
A. Governments lie all the time to get themselves out of a bad place.
B. To the best of my knowledge we are not at this time at war with Russia therefore they are not the 'enemy'.
C. If we were at war with Russia we would be even further from the truth because truth goes right out of the window in the event of war.

I don't need a single piece of intelligence information to be confident that Trump and his campaign were corrupt to the core. There are enough records of them lying when it comes to contracts, meetings, deals, etc. and then correcting themselves when their lies are exposed to see that there is clearly something fundamentally corrupt going on.

Trump standing there on international TV asking for Russia to hack Clinton. Trump hiring a guy as his campaign manager who hadn't worked in American politics in decades but had been working for Putin in Ukraine. That campaign manager not even taking a wage for the role of campaign manager. Trump having personal, fundamental disagreements with much of the Republican party platform, having free reign to change some extreme aspect of it and the only thing he chose to change was language against Russia to make it softer. His national security advisor having to resign because he lied to the FBI (a felony for which he's pleaded guilty) about talking to the Russian ambassador in December 2016 several times. The Trump Tower meeting between Trump Jr and Russian intelligence, documented in emails and admitted to by Trump, where he was offered Clinton information, which he said that if it was what it sounded like he loves it. Jeff sessions lying to Congress about his Russia contacts. Kushner lying about his Russia contacts. Trump lying about never meeting Putin. Trump even fired his FBI director because he was investigating the possibility of people on his campaign colluding with Russia and trump admitted that's why he fired him (after lying about it by saying it was because Comey was unfair to Clinton, lol).

All that is off the top of my head, I'm sure I could think of more if I applied myself, and not a single piece of it requires the trust of any information from an intelligence agency.

So what was that you were saying about how gullible I am to trust the Intel agencies?

Anthony Maslin
Yesterday at 10:52

July 17, 2018.

Donald Trump
President of the United States

Mr Trump, you invented and speak a lot about "fake news”. But lets try talking about something thats not fake… lets call them irrefutable facts.

That passenger flight MH17 was shot out of the sky and 298 innocent people were murdered is an irrefutable fact.
That the plane was hit by a Russian missile has been proven to be an irrefutable fact.
That this killed our 3 beautiful children and their grandfather, and destroyed our life and many other lives in the process, is an irrefutable fact.
That this happened 4 years ago today… is an irrefutable fact.
That the man whose arse you’ve just been kissing did this, and continues to lie about it, is an irrefutable fact.

So you dont need to look it up, irrefutable means impossible to deny or disprove.

It's not anger that I feel towards the two of you, its something much, much worse.

It's pity.

You have no empathy for your fellow man, and you clearly have no idea what love is.

So you have nothing.

houseboy wrote:You just carry on with your conspiracy theories mate, I'm sure somebody somewhere believes you.

This from a 9/11 truther.

houseboy wrote:Because as I said he isn't very good at it. As a leading politician he needs it but isn't in love with it because it's not something that comes naturally to a man who is used to getting his own way and walking all over people if he doesn't. Remember that most politicians have advisers and sometimes the advice goes contrary to that politicians natural inclination so it becomes awkward for them to say things they may not agree with and Trump, for all his many faults, tends to be honest to the point of being rude. He is not used to being told how to act or what to say by others but he is having to learn because total honesty in politics and 'saying what you think' would lead to chaos and conflict.

Back tracking and denial are all part of the game, our politicians do it all the time but are not so high profile.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

houseboy wrote:At times like this it is quite normal for a government to create a bogeyman to deflect from problems at home.

What do you think of my photo of the three little children killed when passenger flight MH17 was shot out of the sky with a Russian missile?

Is that a government creating a bogeyman to deflect from problems at home?

Here it is again, take a good, long look at it before you go defending Putin and Trump...

Trump calls Montenegro aggressive and says they might attack Russia to start WW3. Lol

Who here doesn't think Putin told him to say that during their private meeting where no Americans were allowed?

MH17: “New evidence”, same issues .....(Timing)

"Nearly four years since the incident, and over two years since they last reported any progress, the MH17 Joint Investigative Team (JIT) have held a press conference. To underline their previous position – they still think Russia did it.

The timing of this statement could be seen as very politically convenient for the NATO allies and the Kiev regime. The West would have you believe that the proximity to the World Cup is purely coincidental. Whilst those suggesting that this is a great cover for Ukraine’s renewed shelling of separatists regions in the Donbass will surely be dismissed as “apologists” or “cynics”.

None of that is really the issue though.

Whether they truly have “new evidence”, or whether this is just a rehash of discredited Bellingcat nonsense, is immaterial. If the politically convenient timing is a coincidence or a stunt does not matter.

The most important point is that the JIT is fatally and irredeemably flawed.

The JIT, made up of investigators from Australia, the Netherlands, Malaysia and Ukraine…but not Russia, has obvious credibility problems from the outset. The presence of Ukrainian investigators instantly means the end of objectivity. You can’t have an impartial investigation when one of the main suspects is doing the investigation. That’s simple common sense.

It’s not just the presence of the Ukrainian investigators that taints the JIT’s findings either. The four countries involved have signed a joint non-disclosure agreement (NDA), which states that none of their evidence can be made public unless ALL FOUR of the national governments agree.

Essentially, Ukraine have a veto on whether any single bit of evidence they find ever sees the light of day. This is absurd.

This NDA isn’t just a rumour or bit of gossip either. It was reported here in December 2014, and confirmed by the Australian government in a letter:

http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/view ... 7&start=60" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://off-guardian.org/2018/05/25/mh1 ... me-issues/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comment:

..JackRiddler It was shot down over contested territory in a war zone (and never should have been routed there). It crashed in rebel-held territory. Most likely no one "did" this (in the sense that there was intent to shoot down a passenger plane), although someone is responsible.

.No conclusive evidence Russia behind MH17 downing: Malaysia transport minister

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/as ... a-10290266" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Putin denies Russian missile brought down flight MH17 over Ukraine

"President Vladimir Putin said on Friday that a Russian army missile did not bring down Malaysia Airlines Flight over eastern Ukraine in 2014, rebuffing Dutch investigators who concluded that a Russian missile system was used in the attack."

https://globalnews.ca/video/4231761/put ... er-ukraine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I meant to say" officially ranks as the lamest excuse ever. At this point, the only people believing him are those people with IQs below room temperature, which, unfortunately, is still a very large segment of the American population.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44877718" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Russia tried to effectuate a coup there two years ago.

U.S. Bases Near Russia




Frome Stop War.. Hiroyuki Hamada

Breaking: The US has been the aggressor, not Russia.

"Don't they know that there are people in Russia? Just like us trying to make sense out of life, enjoying friendship, family, what nature can offer...amazing art, literature, poetry and music?

The media and the elected officials have done this over and over. They've demonized people in the Middle East. They brought us many wars with false pretexts.

What about the crime bills and war on drugs? Remember in 90s how they demonized black youth? They brought us the mass incarceration of minorities worse than under Apartheid South Africa. They brought us police killings more frequent then Lynching in its heyday.

We must stop listening to the schemers who are guided by corporatism, colonialism and militarism.

And am I right in thinking that Russia only has 9 foreign military bases whereas US has approx. 900 spread throughout 150 countries. Also, US has not foreign bases on its own soil."

Sheila Coombes...

"And am I right in thinking that Russia only has 12 foreign military bases whereas US has approx. 900 spread throughout 150 countries. Also, US has no foreign bases on its own soil."

ontario claret wrote:"I meant to say" officially ranks as the lamest excuse ever. At this point, the only people believing him are those people with IQs below room temperature, which, unfortunately, is still a very large segment of the American population.

...and bluelabrador16

Claret-On-A-T-Rex .....I might as well ask you the question.

Were you supportive of the Western Coup against the democratically elected government in Ukraine?

Are you against the role that Russia has played in Syria in trying to prevent the Western backed ISIS, Al Qaeda, Takfiris, etc overthrowing the democratically elected government of President Assad?

Vegas Claret wrote:I love Trump, no matter how crap a day I might have I know I'm not as dumb as the President of the United States !

And how many millions have you made then?

That map neglects the contributions of other NATO allies, like France in places like Niger and Chad. And Canada will soon be in Mali.