Since Defour joined in August 2016 we have played 80 premier league matches. Defour has started in exactly 40 of them.

In the 40 games Defour has started, we have earned 59 points, or 1.48 points per game. Roughly 56 points over a 38 game season.

In the 40 games Defour has not started, we have earned 36 points, or 0.90 points per game. Roughly 34 points over a 38 game season.

Is Defour the difference between staying up and going down?

No

The board impact he can have is huge. Not sure all hopes should be pinned on him until he is fully fit and bedded in again though. Goalkeepers aside he has far the most quality out of anyone in our team and we need some quality and invention right now.

He’s had spells of being a top player for us. Occasionally our best player. But they are just spells. As your stats show, he’s injury prone and has missed half of the games.

Unfortunately we really don’t have any choice right now that to hope he can get sharp, stay fit and that this latest injury hasn’t taken something away from his game.

What he does enable us though is that he gives us a lot more passing options because he's good at finding space, good at finding players and good at keeping the tempo high

But we do need him to stay fit, and to be honest we need a hell of a lot more from our other players.

Stats are wonderful things and those at the top of the thread show we get better results when he plays then when he doesn't.

Looked at some for someone the other day re: Charlie Austin in his two full seasons at Burnley (2011/12 & 2012/13). When Austin started games we averaged 1.13 points per game, when he didn't, we averaged 1.88 points per game. But would you have left him out?

Cork will play better alongside him. But where it also worked for the team was with wide players tracking back. Aka Arfield. I really hope he can come back fit and also Brady can. But it will take time. Time we really cant afford. Vydra? Why is he not playing?

ClaretTony wrote:Looked at some for someone the other day re: Charlie Austin in his two full seasons at Burnley (2011/12 & 2012/13). When Austin started games we averaged 1.13 points per game, when he didn't, we averaged 1.88 points per game. But would you have left him out?

Sean saw this stat, that's why he sold him and we went up.*



* Only kidding, Charlie was a great striker for us.

ClaretTony wrote:Stats are wonderful things and those at the top of the thread show we get better results when he plays then when he doesn't.

Looked at some for someone the other day re: Charlie Austin in his two full seasons at Burnley (2011/12 & 2012/13). When Austin started games we averaged 1.13 points per game, when he didn't, we averaged 1.88 points per game. But would you have left him out?

As Notts says...after two mid-table finishes with him in the team in 2011/12 and 2012/13, we got rid of him and then the next season came second and got promoted. You aren't really proving your point...

Providing he's fully fit of course he could make a real difference to where we finish. He's that good but patience will be needed as he returns.

Austin is a red herring. We had to sell him as we were getting desperate for money.

A fit Defour will give us a chance of pulling things around. However, I am pretty sure that the next 3 games are going to define our season. Therefore if he can play aat least part of some of them he has to.

Even WHA looked pretty awesome on Sunday, with their pace and power in midfield, just like Watford do. BHA look to be prepared to battle. Cardiff, Hudders and Newcastle will hopefully struggle.

What about the non-impact of players who always play and are currently doing b*gger all!? You can`t put a number on Defour`s importance to getting us going and actually playing what the layman would consider actual football.

ClaretAndJew wrote:No

Pretty much guarantee we have a better chance of staying up with him in the team - a blind man on a galloping horse can see that.
Put him in there in a 3 with any combination of Cork, Westwood or Hendrick and we are stronger centrally, which will naturally make us better defensively. Be it a 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3 but think the 2 centrally has seen better days (fine with engines like Marney) and is just out-thought and over-powered now.

Quite possibly, yes.

Claretto wrote:As Notts says...after two mid-table finishes with him in the team in 2011/12 and 2012/13, we got rid of him and then the next season came second and got promoted. You aren't really proving your point...

Wasn’t trying to prove any point other than probably not to get too caught up in stats.

Only 1 win in 16 with Charlie Taylor starting

It was interesting watching Neves for Wolves on Sunday - the way he just kept dropping deep to be available for the ball, allowing himself time and space to pick the right pass, be it a simple 10 yard one or a neat pin-point chip to a wide player.
He did the job that Defour was doing for us with such aplomb at this time next year; Barton did it before him (but not always with the same accuracy of pass) it’s quite a subtle role but such an important one when looking after the ball, our lack of composure is our most obvious shortcoming right now.
I’d like to think Defour’s class will just settle everyone else down. For me none of Westwood, Cork and Hendrick are taking the responsibility of this. There seems to be a collective lack of confidence, especially with Cork which is worrying, he looked great in the first couple of games.

What's the record with Hart starting for us? Just saying.

Do people really think he is THAT good????

Lancasterclaret wrote:What he does enable us though is that he gives us a lot more passing options because he's good at finding space, good at finding players and good at keeping the tempo high

But we do need him to stay fit, and to be honest we need a hell of a lot more from our other players.

Is the finding space a Belgian thing?

Fellaini and De Bruyne (many others) in the same position just seem to flawlessly do it too.... is this something that gets coached into kids as being very important in Belgium maybe?

Cubanclaret wrote:It was interesting watching Neves for Wolves on Sunday - the way he just kept dropping deep to be available for the ball, allowing himself time and space to pick the right pass, be it a simple 10 yard one or a neat pin-point chip to a wide player.
He did the job that Defour was doing for us with such aplomb at this time next year; Barton did it before him (but not always with the same accuracy of pass) it’s quite a subtle role but such an important one when looking after the ball, our lack of composure is our most obvious shortcoming right now.
I’d like to think Defour’s class will just settle everyone else down. For me none of Westwood, Cork and Hendrick are taking the responsibility of this. There seems to be a collective lack of confidence, especially with Cork which is worrying, he looked great in the first couple of games.

It’s great when someone foreigner does it - it’s “cultured”

Try being Dave Jones and doing it

I think he will be eased in but, if memory serves me well
he's best in a three man midfield rather than a two man.

So when he starts he'll need two from Cork, Westwood and/or Hendrick
alongside him which well pose a problem for Dyche unless he starts with just one up front.

Possible team:

Hart
Lowton, Tarks, Mee, Ward/Taylor
JGB, Defour, Cork, Hendrick,
Vydras, Wood

Doesn't look too bad on paper.

Defour is exceptional at drawing opponents towards him then passing to the man in that space. That alone gets you ten yards further up the pitch and it gives you far more options than just recycling the ball back to the centre halves . If we can get Defour fit I would imagine we would see an immediate improvement in the players around him most notably the full backs and wide men.

On stats, I was just reading an article on NBA stats the other day and "Real Plus-Minus" which attempts to identify how many points a player is worth (offensively and defensively) when he's on the pitch
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1074 ... plus-minus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The best football we played with Defour and Cork together. He managed to make Cork an even better player l think.

He instantly looks to go forward , Westwood cork and Hendrick are good at retaining possession but not forward thinking players , I find it worrying that we are placing so much hope on defour but he is exactly what we need at the moment

Ooogeorgeorgeoghani wrote:He instantly looks to go forward , Westwood cork and Hendrick are good at retaining possession but not forward thinking players , I find it worrying that we are placing so much hope on defour but he is exactly what we need at the moment

It's only some fans who are placing so much hope on Defour. I'm sure SD has more faith in the rest of his squad.

And be careful, if you start listening to fans too much you'll end up starting threads about his "career-ending injury".

Huge impact. He’s about ten gazillion times better than Westwood.

MDWat wrote:Huge impact. He’s about ten gazillion times better than Westwood.

This. He is light-years ahead of Westwood and will improve us a lot.

Not pinning all my hopes on him at all, however, he is an outstanding player. Perhaps the best MF in my 25 years of watching Burnley. If he is fit and raring to go it will be a huge boost to the team and also supporters, will hopefully help some of those not hitting their top notes get back to where they need to be. Cant wait to see him back and Brady also.

Massive impact. He changes the whole system. I mentioned in a thread last season that he was giving us the edge we had in games - at the time other posters disagreed but I now think it is clear for all to see.

Forget stats, the psychological boost it will give the rest of the players and the crowd will be massive

You can’t put everything down to stats. Not a dig but use Westwood for an example. If Defour and Westwood both passed the ball 30 times with a 100% completion rate a far higher percentage of Defours passes would be far more effective.

RocketLawnChair wrote:You can’t put everything down to stats. Not a dig but use Westwood for an example. If Defour and Westwood both passed the ball 30 times with a 100% completion rate a far higher percentage of Defours passes would be far more effective.

Westwood openly admitted when he joined us that fans would not see him pushing forward playing exciting football , so it's not a critism of him he does what he says on the tin , defour is a different type of player his movement creates space for himself and others around him providing opportunity to get the ball forward.

Ooogeorgeorgeoghani wrote:Westwood openly admitted when he joined us that fans would not see him pushing forward playing exciting football , so it's not a critism of him he does what he says on the tin , defour is a different type of player his movement creates space for himself and others around him providing opportunity to get the ball forward.

If that is the case, Westwood needs to aim for more. I'm sure that he can learn a lot from players like Defour & Cork, and should be able to add that extra offensive touch to his game at some point in the future.

Vegas Claret wrote:Forget stats, the psychological boost it will give the rest of the players and the crowd will be massive

Which seems to be captured in the stats...

RocketLawnChair wrote:You can’t put everything down to stats. Not a dig but use Westwood for an example. If Defour and Westwood both passed the ball 30 times with a 100% completion rate a far higher percentage of Defours passes would be far more effective.

If anyone tried to draw any conclusions from those stats it would be ridiculous. I don't understand your point.

Claretto wrote:If anyone tried to draw any conclusions from those stats it would be ridiculous. I don't understand your point.

I think he's meaning that a lot of Defours passes would have been more effective in the final third. Creating more chances etc.