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I'm in the snivelling coward camp. Watching your colleagues getting attacked and you lock yourself in your car. Didn't he even consider driving at the terrorist or even honk his horn in an aggresive manner.

Although we don't know all the facts it certainly doesn't portray him in a good light.

Perhaps, given his lack of chivalry, they should take his knighthood away from him?

Hardly leading by example. Doubt it would be the same on the battlefield.

I guess it's a little unfair to criticise without knowing the full facts but watching last nights news my first thoughts were why didn't he drive his car at the terrorist and try and take him out.

I'm assuming he would have a driver and that he would be in the passenger or back seat with his briefcase and wearing his comfy slippers.

I like how he says his first thoughts were to get out and go for the door to help but one of the officers outside said quite rightly stay in the car and go.

That's cowardice right there. Not naming the officer who said it at the inquest will stop it coming back to him but tries to make out that it was someone else's decision for him to flee. I think he talks codswallop.

Poberbly filling a form in or something serious like that.

There was the story of a PC who was in the front line facing rioters. So scared and fearing for his life he ran away. He was stopped by a colleague who gave him a pep talk about comradeship and how his colleagues needed him. "Sorry Sarge, it won't happen again" he promised. Ready to join his team the felt a sharp tug of his collar. "Sarge ! Sarge! I'm a Superintendent if you don't mind"

"Bloody hell, sorry sir; I didn't realise that i'd ran that far"

Definitely a chicken ****. Should have his title stripped, his golden pension taken away and be made to go and work on the front line.

Not a good look for him.

I can't see any situation were a serving police officer doesn't intervene if a colleague is in danger to be honest.*

*there probably is now I think about it, but i don't think this case applies

[quote="beddie"]I guess it's a little unfair to criticise without knowing the full facts but watching last nights news my first thoughts were why didn't he drive his car at the terrorist and try and take him out.[/quote

He probably had for thought and worry that if he did drive at the terrorist he would be arrested for attempted murder, be branded a racist by the lefties, lose his job and watch the terrorist receive 250k in compensation!!!
Would you put it past the law in this day and age??

There are two kinds of generals.

Ones who give the order - " Come on men!"

The others give the order - " Go on men !"

To be fair he probably had The Guardian crossword to finish off........

cockneyclaret wrote:He probably had for thought and worry that if he did drive at the terrorist he would be arrested for attempted murder, be branded a racist by the lefties, lose his job and watch the terrorist receive 250k in compensation!!!
Would you put it past the law in this day and age??

The cops shot the terrorist dead shortly afterwards. The fact they haven't been 'branded racist by lefties' or lost their jobs makes me think he'd have been alright. Can't see the terrorist getting much compo either, being dead.

So yeah, I'd put it past 'the law', even in this day and age.

But we DO know the full facts... he’s just told us. That’s not hearsay, it’s a sworn testimony, first hand.

He’s an absolute disgrace.

The priorities for policemen are the protection of life and property. By staying in his car and watching the tragedy unfold is a dereliction of duty and he should be disciplined accordingly. On a personal level, I think he is coward, a disgrace to the uniform and he should be sacked and stripped of all his bangles.

Not defending him as he should have mucked in but, allegedly, his driver told him to stay in the vehicle as there were two civilians with him.
Can't see why he could not have told the driver, let me out then secure the vehicle.

Honestly, until i was in a similar position, im not sure i'd criticize someone for freezing in that kind of situation. I like to think id try and help and intervene, but i can't be 100% i wouldn't just freeze

Imagine you're in a situation where you could potentially be killed, you'd do everything you could to stay alive.

ClaretAndJew wrote:Imagine you're in a situation where you could potentially be killed, you'd do everything you could to stay alive.

Thankfully that’s not a mantra the police force adopt in general.

Incidentally, i know police are not routinely armed in the UK, but had his driver been trained in the use of a decent firearm, the story may have been vastly different.....

ClaretAndJew wrote:Imagine you're in a situation where you could potentially be killed, you'd do everything you could to stay alive.

The oath that all coppers swear on taking up their post

"I, ... of ... do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law."

No mention of stopping in the car till it's all calmed down there.

Google "dereliction of duty"...

ZizkovClaret wrote:Honestly, until i was in a similar position, im not sure i'd criticize someone for freezing in that kind of situation. I like to think id try and help and intervene, but i can't be 100% i wouldn't just freeze

That's true but he should, with all his experience, know what should be done and he shouldn't 'freeze'.

ClaretAndJew wrote:Imagine you're in a situation where you could potentially be killed, you'd do everything you could to stay alive.

If you are an ordinary citizen yes, you could be forgiven, but if he doesn't want to deal with that sh!t he shouldn't be in the job.

ClaretAndJew wrote:Imagine you're in a situation where you could potentially be killed, you'd do everything you could to stay alive.

Including abandoning a colleague so he could die for you ? Guy is a coward

It all looks very, very poor from where I'm sitting (not in the back of a luxury, comfy, tax payer provided car btw) and I'm totally surprised he isn't "stepping down" unless there are other, mitigating circumstances we aren't aware of.

I'm firmly in the 'sniveling coward' group. What an utter waste of over-paid space he is. There are no excuses for sitting there watching a fellow officer being attacked and doing absolutely nothing. I believe he said something like 'I decided to control things from where I was' or some such nonsense. He will of course keep his over-paid job, get his golden handshake retirement pay off along with his ring-fenced gold plated pension. I have nothing but contempt for these people. He probably tells his officers to arrest the homeless. What a waste of good oxygen.

ZizkovClaret wrote:Honestly, until i was in a similar position, im not sure i'd criticize someone for freezing in that kind of situation. I like to think id try and help and intervene, but i can't be 100% i wouldn't just freeze

If he froze you could sort of understand it, but he didn't. He claims he wanted to get out but someone else told him to stay in the vehicle.

They left to save others lives the hero, you know them in a heavily protected locked car that were in no danger what so ever.

Make no mistake his bosses will think he did the right thing though.

Quite shocked at this . Can’t say I’ve known that many coppers but I’ve never witnessed such an act of pure cowardice as this . I’ve seen people terrified under fire and I’ve been very scared myself but to abandon one of your own under direct attack is truly disgusting . Should be stripped of his title and put in the stocks for an hour with the dead coppers family . Hopefully the rest of his career he’ll have the shame by all and sundry to be known as a coward

I think this one will go with him to the grave. Very poor show.

Shithouse

Quickenthetempo wrote:If he froze you could sort of understand it, but he didn't. He claims he wanted to get out but someone else told him to stay in the vehicle.

They left to save others lives the hero, you know them in a heavily protected locked car that were in no danger what so ever.

He was the acting head of the Met so who, exactly, could order him to stay in the vehicle? He was on the spot and his timely intervention may have allowed him them to overpower the attacker. Hopefully, sitting in his car and watching a colleague get stabbed to death within feet of him without doing anything will haunt him as much as it will haunt the widow of PC Palmer.

Which one of us would completely unarmed, tackle an armed murderer who was carrying a massive knife and had murderous intent all over him.

Do you foolishly give up your own life because another officer died by blindly rushing at this terrorist, or do you wait another 30 seconds and an armed officer kills the terrorist. It would have just been the waste of another life. I hope I am never put in that situation, but what would he have done if he had rushed unarmed at the murderer? Just what would the outcome have been. What would you have done?

There was nothing in the car boot that could have been used as a weapon? No car jack, no spanners or tools?

Chip Harrison wrote:Which one of us would completely unarmed, tackle an armed murderer who was carrying a massive knife and had murderous intent all over him.

Do you foolishly give up your own life because another officer died by blindly rushing at this terrorist, or do you wait another 30 seconds and an armed officer kills the terrorist. It would have just been the waste of another life. I hope I am never put in that situation, but what would he have done if he had rushed unarmed at the murderer? Just what would the outcome have been. What would you have done?

That's why your not a policeman with that attitude.

They (top bosses) put their colleagues to work in very dangerous situations every day, often on their own. Without batting an eyelid.

I just hope the media storm this will cause will make him hand his large pension back. Nevermind the bravery award.

Chip Harrison wrote:Which one of us would completely unarmed, tackle an armed murderer who was carrying a massive knife and had murderous intent all over him.

Do you foolishly give up your own life because another officer died by blindly rushing at this terrorist, or do you wait another 30 seconds and an armed officer kills the terrorist. It would have just been the waste of another life. I hope I am never put in that situation, but what would he have done if he had rushed unarmed at the murderer? Just what would the outcome have been. What would you have done?

I'm glad someone has had some common sense & perspective. Reading all the other comments I was wondering how many on here would tackle an armed man when unarmed yourself.

It all depends on whether I was a police officer or not I guess.

I should imagine he has lost a lot of respect from those below him. It will be difficult for him to carry out his responsibilities henceforth with this hanging round his neck. I think he performed very poorly and is no longer any kind of example to the police force..

BennyD wrote:He was the acting head of the Met so who, exactly, could order him to stay in the vehicle? He was on the spot and his timely intervention may have allowed him them to overpower the attacker. Hopefully, sitting in his car and watching a colleague get stabbed to death within feet of him without doing anything will haunt him as much as it will haunt the widow of PC Palmer.

It could well be that, in such circumstances, protocol dictates his PPO would be in charge

bf2k wrote:I'm glad someone has had some common sense & perspective. Reading all the other comments I was wondering how many on here would tackle an armed man when unarmed yourself.

It was a knife not a gun, so yes, I would if I thought I could help. As someone has already pointed out the car would have had something in it and even if they had only driven the car at him it may have helped. Even if he had only distracted the guy then run away to a safe distance it may have helped. There are many things that I could think of and I'm not a trained policeman and they should know more. Can't imagine how anyone on here with four limbs and sight could even begin to argue in favour of this coward.

Vino blanco wrote:I should imagine he has lost a lot of respect from those below him. It will be difficult for him to carry out his responsibilities henceforth with this hanging round his neck. I think he performed very poorly and is no longer any kind of example to the police force..

Wouldn't you just love to be in the room when he orders some of his officers into a potentially dangerous situation and someone said to him, "why don't you bloody go.....sir?"

houseboy wrote:It was a knife not a gun, so yes, I would if I thought I could help. As someone has already pointed out the car would have had something in it and even if they had only driven the car at him it may have helped. Even if he had only distracted the guy then run away to a safe distance it may have helped. There are many things that I could think of and I'm not a trained policeman and they should know more. Can't imagine how anyone on here with four limbs and sight could even begin to argue in favour of this coward.

It depends on whether you look at the situation rationally or emotionally.

What if the situation was an escaped lion that had just killed one of his men. Would you want him to tackle the lion unarmed, or wait for armed police or zoo keepers with tranquilisers to appear.

What if it was Iraq and his men had been shot by a guy with a gun. Does he run at the man with the gun whilst unarmed.

What good is throwing any life away when you know expert help is on its way?

Also, do you not think every one else in the area hadn't thought of distracting him and running away to a safe distance. It wasn't a film, it was real life and the whole incident from start to finish lasted around 40 seconds or so.

Its bloody scary when you are near an incident on a match, never mind this.

Everyone in the car should have got out walked towards the man and distracted him.No harm in running away once he had been distracted and it would have given vital seconds for armed response to shoot him.

Gutless.
I would hope Joe Public would try to intervene, even if it wasn't his responsibility. To be a member of the force and cower is disgusting, he is paid to put himself between the public and danger. Self preservation is no excuse.

Police forces promote equality , unless you are high ranking then it's better the unknown civilian gets killed , we are not all equal ,apparently !!
He's as ban as the sheriff outside the school in America who did nothing, he wants sacking for neglect of duties

Ok a couple think he did the right thing that's fine. We all have different opinions after all.

But once he had been shot and danger over why wasn't he out of the car to take charge of the incident as a top ranking officer?

Quickenthetempo wrote:Ok a couple think he did the right thing that's fine. We all have different opinions after all.

But once he had been shot and danger over why wasn't he out of the car to take charge of the incident as a top ranking officer?

Because he manages the people that do that. You don't see Generals on the front line do you?

Could have at least instructed the driver to attempt to hit him with the car if nothing else.

Chip Harrison wrote:Because he manages the people that do that. You don't see Generals on the front line do you?

We used to see kings take our armies into battle.

I think living with himself is enough punishment without the rest of us, who have no idea how we'd have reacted in that situation, piling on the abuse.

Chip Harrison wrote:It depends on whether you look at the situation rationally or emotionally.

What if the situation was an escaped lion that had just killed one of his men. Would you want him to tackle the lion unarmed, or wait for armed police or zoo keepers with tranquilisers to appear.

What if it was Iraq and his men had been shot by a guy with a gun. Does he run at the man with the gun whilst unarmed.

What good is throwing any life away when you know expert help is on its way?

Also, do you not think every one else in the area hadn't thought of distracting him and running away to a safe distance. It wasn't a film, it was real life and the whole incident from start to finish lasted around 40 seconds or so.

Its bloody scary when you are near an incident on a match, never mind this.

It wasn't a gun or a lion, it was a man with a knife, dangerous but much less dangerous than a man with a gun (or a lion). A gun can kill at distance, a knife (unless the guy is an expert knife thrower) needs arms length distance to have an effect. The lion analogy is a bit strange but even a lion can be distracted. Simply put; he could have done more.