Anybody watch this very moving programme.? An insight to the horrific journey of the murder of the Jews. How people can deny this ever happened is unbelievable..

Great programme

A very moving programme, well researched and presented.

https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/factual/ ... 86.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having visited the two Auschwitz camps two months ago, it was staggering to learn what the Nazis did and what they got away with right under people's noses.

It's amazing how many got away right under our noses although some got their come uppance. The Catholic Church and some South American countries should hang their heads in shame over this.

The course of history could have been different and thousands of lives saved had network rail been in charge of the track and thameslink the timetable!

"Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". This is the obvious problem with all societies, the "people" who rise to the top get there for a reason. The horrors perpetrated by the Nazis were highlighted, because of the hideous nature of them.

However, most atrocities in society are hidden and are allowed to remain hidden.

A very moving and disturbing programme. It is somehow comforting to highlight the Catholic Church and 'some South American countries' as Blackrod does as though they were responsible for the holocaust. Let's not forget that Hitler made no secret of his intentions and yet, in the early stages, was democratically voted into a position of power. The Nazis were not an alien race that suddenly appeared out of nowhere, they were Germans, Austrians and great numbers that came from other European countries and 'signed up' to the atrocities being perpetrated. Even GB and the USA had their right wing political parties who marginalised the Jews and supported the persecution of them. (Incidentally there was a concentration camp in Poland reserved solely for the internment and persecution of Catholic Priests.)

It's amazing too how Oskar Schindler followed one of these trains into Auschwitz and "reclaimed" 300 of his Jewish workforce. In the midst of evil, there is still good.

It'll happen again, if it's not already happening again in China.

So it may be happening in China and yet not a single thread or 10 pager started by turtle. Imagine if it was Trump/America.

Still maybe you aren't obsessed, just a hypocrite

^ Obsessed

Watched it last night, very moving and Chris Tarrant was at times very emotional.

No Ney Never wrote:The course of history could have been different and thousands of lives saved had network rail been in charge of the track and thameslink the timetable!

Shouldn't have laughed at this but I did. A lot.

Yours sincerely

Regular Thameslink commuter

If anyone is going or planning to go, take a walk out from Birkenau to the judenramp. No tourists there but this is where the Jews were unloaded until the last six months or so, when the spur was built straight into the camp.

conyoviejo wrote:Anybody watch this very moving programme.? An insight to the horrific journey of the murder of the Jews. How people can deny this ever happened is unbelievable..

Ken Livingstone does deny it and probably Corbyn would off the record like. Very moving programme. I hoped these awful events would never ever happen again. But just look at the Middle East and they are. Also there are some people and countries who have openly declared that Israel should be obliterated. I'm.not naming the obvious rogue state but you wpuld know if you knew that leader of the opposition in this country has made paid appearances on their state television.

Imploding Turtle wrote:It'll happen again, if it's not already happening again in China.

China? Chinese Jews is It? Usual comedy script from this ill.informed joker.

Chinese indigenous Uighers (Muslims) living in NW China.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06pqb91

Stayingup

".. I hoped these awful events would never ever happen again. But just look at the Middle East and they are....."

Are you referring to Gaza, Syria and Yemen?

"..Also there are some people and countries who have openly declared that Israel should be obliterated. I'm.not naming the obvious rogue state but you would know if you knew that leader of the opposition in this country has made paid appearances on their state television...."

No they didn't. Getting rid of the racist ideology of Zionism was what Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was referring to.

Stayingup wrote:China? Chinese Jews is It? Usual comedy script from this ill.informed joker.

Wirvine wrote:Chinese indigenous Uighers (Muslims) living in NW China.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06pqb91

Calls me ill-informed. Immediately gets informed. I love it.

Get ******, Stayingup.

Why all the Jewish hate???

dsr wrote:It's amazing too how Oskar Schindler followed one of these trains into Auschwitz and "reclaimed" 300 of his Jewish workforce. In the midst of evil, there is still good.

Hence why he's the only member of the Nazi party buried at Mount Zion, Israel.

Stayingup wrote:China? Chinese Jews is It? Usual comedy script from this ill.informed joker.

800,000 to 2,000,000 Muslims held.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... internment" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not happening to Christians though, so why give a ****?

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/15/asia ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stayingup wrote:Ken Livingstone does deny it and probably Corbyn would off the record like. Very moving programme. I hoped these awful events would never ever happen again. But just look at the Middle East and they are. Also there are some people and countries who have openly declared that Israel should be obliterated. I'm.not naming the obvious rogue state but you wpuld know if you knew that leader of the opposition in this country has made paid appearances on their state television.

What nonsense. Livingstone has never denied the Holocaust, and nor has Corbyn. You’re taking making things up to a whole new level.

Livingstone has been expelled from the Labour party for his anti-semitic views. That not arguable.

He's defo not a holocaust denier though!

Despicable little wretch.

Lancasterclaret

"Livingstone has been expelled from the Labour party for his anti-semitic views...."

He wasn't expelled...

What anti-semitic views....

bluelabrador16 wrote:Lancasterclaret



He wasn't expelled...

What anti-semitic views....

Just like Nixon wasn't thrown out of office.

Imploding Turtle wrote:^ Obsessed

Hes right though.


Its also funny that I said this was happening in China months ago, yet you seemed to insinuate I was lying if I recall correctly

ClaretMoffitt wrote:Hes right though.


Its also funny that I said this was happening in China months ago, yet you seemed to insinuate I was lying if I recall correctly

You recall incorrectly.

In fact months ago i said this was happening and someone mocked me for it. Was that you?

Edit: No, it was this moron. http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... na#p856819" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Imploding Turtle wrote:You recall incorrectly.

In fact months ago i said this was happening and someone mocked me for it. Was that you?

Edit: No, it was this moron. http://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboar ... na#p856819" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wish I could find the thread, I may have even made a thread about it myself, not entirely sure, it was at least 6 months ago.

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I wish I could find the thread, I may have even made a thread about it myself, not entirely sure, it was at least 6 months ago.

So, you've accused me of something you can't remember me doing, and you can't find the thread you think I did it in.

Imploding Turtle wrote:So, you've accused me of something you can't remember me doing, and you can't find the thread you think I did it in.

someone definitely accused me of posting fakenews when i posted the link about this when it first started emerging into foreign media. I remember it because I was accusing the left of hypocrisy at ignoring or not caring about real social injustice and rather focusing on non-issues domestically.

ClaretMoffitt wrote:someone definitely accused me of posting fakenews when i posted the link about this when it first started emerging into foreign media. I remember it because I was accusing the left of hypocrisy at ignoring or not caring about real social injustice and rather focusing on non-issues domestically.

Wait a minute. So the first time it started get reported in western media is when you decided to accuse the left of hypocrisy for not caring about it?

"when it first started emerging into foreign media"

Yes, the left are massive hypocrites for ignoring something they didn't know about, for the exact ******* reason you didn't know about it either.

Imploding Turtle wrote:Wait a minute. So the first time it started get reported in western media is when you decided to accuse the left of hypocrisy for not caring about it?

"when it first started emerging into foreign media"

Yes, the left are massive hypocrites for ignoring something they didn't know about, for the exact ******* reason you didn't know about it either.

I haven't heard much from them now either.

Still yet to see a fraction of the numbers that turned up to protest trump because they were so outraged over his Muslim ban (that wasn't a Muslim ban) even go anywhere near the Chinese embassy, let alone organise a protest.

Has anyone on the left actually done anything other than write an article in vice?

ClaretMoffitt wrote:I haven't heard much from them now either.

Still yet to see a fraction of the numbers that turned up to protest trump because they were so outraged over his Muslim ban (that wasn't a Muslim ban) even go anywhere near the Chinese embassy, let alone organise a protest.

Has anyone on the left actually done anything other than write an article in vice?

It probably has something to do with having to defend freedom, democracy and western values from governments we didn't expect to have to defend against.
There's only so many fronts on which a war can be fought, and right now we're having to fight against Donald ******* Trump and the Republicans in America who are packing children into concentration camps over there.

But you keep trying to paint the left and liberals as if we don't give a **** about our neighbours house down the road being on fire because we're focusing on putting out the fire in our own house. Lets see how that argument holds up.

Imploding Turtle wrote:It probably has something to do with having to defend freedom, democracy and western values from governments we didn't expect to have to defend against.
There's only so many fronts on which a war can be fought, and right now we're having to fight against Donald ******* Trump and the Republicans in America who are packing children into concentration camps over there.

But you keep trying to paint the left and liberals as if we don't give a **** about our neighbours house down the road being on fire because we're focusing on putting out the fire in our own house. Lets see how that argument holds up.

America is not our own house, its a foreign country, just like China.

ClaretMoffitt wrote:America is not our own house, its a foreign country, just like China.

Western democracy is our house. We can't make any kind of argument against the Chinese committing human rights atrocities in China when our own countries are allowed to get away with committing the same atrocities there.

You might not like it, but it's a fact. Trump is diverting anti-authoritarian resources away from the likes of China and Russia and towards the crimes his administration is committing. This is one of the reasons hypocrisy is really, really bad. You lose moral authority when trying to argue against something someone else is doing when you, or countries you call 'allies', are doing the same thing.

Back to the op.
Having watched the programme, and a few very similar, the most chilling part for me is the matter of fact way they organised the process.
The railway companies were paid a fixed rate of so many pfennigs per jew per kilometre.
Industrialised slaughter on a continental scale.

gawthorpe_view wrote:Back to the op.
Having watched the programme, and a few very similar, the most chilling part for me is the matter of fact way they organised the process.
The railway companies were paid a fixed rate of so many pfennigs per jew per kilometre.
Industrialised slaughter on a continental scale.

A lot of evidence was destroyed, but one thing that survived was the minutes of the Wansee Conference survive (the meeting at which the final solution was officially unveiled), and around the time Schindler's List was made, a German film was made based on the minutes of the Wansee Conference. Of the two, Schindler's LIst is horrific but those committing the crimes are sadistic beasts. The horror in the German film is in seeing a group of mid-ranking technocrats and military men sat around a table discussing implementing murder on a grand scale, in the same way you'd expect them to discuss town water provision, or public health.

It certainly wasn't just a few following orders and ' sadistic beasts' is probably the most appropriate way of describing them. I've just read a book that culminates in the liberation of Dachau and the sights the liberators are met with shell shocked them. The stories the survivors told them repulsed the liberators so much that US doctors refused to treat wounded camp guards. Aside from this it's a disgrace that companies like Krupp could continue and also the company producing gas I believe now produces Anaesthetic for hospitals.

There's a BBC/HBO adaptation of The Wannsee Conference called The Conspiracy (2012). Kenneth Branagh plays the part of Reinhard Heydrich.

Here's a link to Die Wannseekonferenz (1984), that was mentioned by AndrewJB , with English subtitles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ave9RHTqkI

Caveat lector

AndrewJB

"...one thing that survived was the minutes of the Wansee Conference..."

Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1647" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comment:

"The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at. Wannsee was but a stage in the unfolding of the process of mass murder." (Canadian Jewish News, Jan. 30, 1992)

- Yehuda Bauer, former head of Yad Vashem

bluelabrador16 wrote:Caveat lector

AndrewJB



Wannsee Conference minutes debunked

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1647" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Comment:

First of all, thanks for correcting my spelling - Wannsee Conference. I'll have to throw your "caveat lector" back at you though. The link you provided has a lengthy submission from British "historian" David Irving, who is a renowned Holocaust denier.

To be clear, I didn't say that the Wannsee Conference STARTED the Holocaust - because the killing of Jews had started earlier than that. Nor did I even suggest that it was just "a few people following orders" - because I believe most of the German people should be held accountable (the Nazis divided the responsibility - and therefore guilt - in such a way that everyone who participated could claim a kind of innocence, or just following orders, but it was with the compliance of the German population that it took place).

And for anyone who thinks Hitler was in some way clever - his country was completely destroyed, and for a long time divided. That's not clever.

And for Brexiteers who believe we "stood alone" against him, well actually we had a lot of help; from Africa, Pakistan, India, Asia, as well as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. Later from the Soviet Union, and the USA.

conyoviejo wrote:..How people can deny this ever happened is unbelievable..

Uneducated idiots that's who