Wondering if Tom kept his defence closer and better organised. I know Hart has made some good saves but we are letting a hell of a lot of goals in recently.

I'm more worried who should be our centre backs and full backs

Its the defending at fault, not the keeper.

Why? Do you really think that Hart is the issue today? A back 4 of professional footballers should play their game regardless of who the goalkeeper is. Simply not good enough and I’m sick of hearing how Heaton is suddenly the magic change that we need

Funnily enough were averaging two goals conceeded per game with Hart in the nets.

Currently losing 2-1

Heaton needs to start next game simple as that.

Why? To satisfy the other players? Because they will only play if their favourite keeper is playing?

Give me strength

Giftonsnoidea wrote:Funnily enough were averaging two goals conceeded per game with Hart in the nets.

Currently losing 2-1

Heaton needs to start next game simple as that.

What at center back!!!!

Giftonsnoidea wrote:Funnily enough were averaging two goals conceeded per game with Hart in the nets.

Currently losing 2-1

Heaton needs to start next game simple as that.

And you think that's down to the keeper and not the defence?

Thought he was poor for that second, yes tarkowski poor for first no problem saying that

Do you not think maybe Tom might just be better at organising those players in defence?

I’m not saying he is any better in the net, just that the defence was better organised.

Bring Heaton back. Hart is jinxed!

Not going to happen unless Hart got an injury, or had a poor game.

- Currently rated the best player in player ratings
- Conceded 13 in 3 games

Argument for both.

What is to be lost by letting Tom have a game or two?

LoveCurryPies wrote:What is to be lost by letting Tom have a game or two?

Hart's morale. It's basically saying, "Joe, it's your fault, so we're giving Tom a chance".

13 goals in 3 games so yep give Tom a chance.

But I purposely watched the back 4 more closely today, and in my opinion, I dont think the back 4 trust Joe as they concentrate more on running in behind Joe expecting it to go past him and then clear off the line, when they should be attacking the payer with the ball. I know this was evident in Ben Mee's fantastic header off the line but there were numerous occasions today where this happened and it leaves gaping holes in our defence which normally would be an organise back 4 iron curtain, and the offside trap has gone. Joe has made some fantastic stops but this is due to his defence being disorganised as per my theory above, so yes I am pinning my hopes on they prefer Pope Heaton at the back so they can concentrate on their game, and hopefully not because there is a rift in the camp.

Without Hart would have been 7’s and 8’s in all three games.
We are a shambles right thru the team defensively and offensively.
Be nice to say we were being naive and leaving ourselves open at the back but we are not even doing that ! We are setting up to defend and getting stuffed.
Massive couple of months for Dyche now.For the first time in 6 years he is looking vunerable

Hart has done nothing wrong but at this point I would change it, our back 4 is all over the place

Yes. Fantastic idea. The problem is our defending, so lets replace the goalkeeper to solve it.

Other things we can solve by misidentifying the problem is climate change by switching out footwear to sandals, we can solve Brexit by changing the name of Thursday and we can finally solve Pi by outlawing all numbers that have more than 4 digits.

Hart has done ok...but he lacks something. Heaton is wanted by the players, methinks.

Quicker the better.

ClaretAL wrote: I dont think the back 4 trust Joe as they concentrate more on running in behind Joe expecting it to go past him and then clear off the line, when they should be attacking the payer with the ball.

Apart from for several of the goals we conceded today where they concentrated on letting the opposition in behind them to be one on one with our keeper instead.

100 per cent for sure. Heaton is a rock. Hart is a showman

Hart did nothing wrong today and if Heaton had been between the sticks I am afraid it would have been 6-7.

kindonesque wrote:100 per cent for sure. Heaton is a rock. Hart is a showman

Totally agree. Unnecessary acquisition.

If he keeps his place now you can see Dyche has fallen out with Heaton for sure!

Lowbankclaret wrote:Hart did nothing wrong today and if Heaton had been between the sticks I am afraid it would have been 6-7.

Did you not see Heaton play against Man U two seasons ago?

The problem isn't our defending, it is our distribution. You are going to lose games if you pass the ball to the opposition team almost as much as you do your own team.

They had 22 shots today, I doubt that all of these shots were as a result of poor play by our back 4. The midfielders can't defend!

He may have to return soon, because if poor old Joe has to pick any more out of the net he will get net rash.
Seriously though, not Harts fault and it must be awful for him at the moment playing behind that lot. Did you see the anguish on his face again today after conceding the last two? And for somebody to say he should have saved the second is laughable.

deanothedino wrote:Apart from for several of the goals we conceded today where they concentrated on letting the opposition in behind them to be one on one with our keeper instead.

They was not actual 1 on 1 where they? the 3 occasions that i re all came from us back pedalling towards out goal even as deep as the 6yd box again trying to protect the goal as if Joe wasn't there. Please dont get me wrong, I really do rate Joe and apart from the 1 through his legs, there was not a lot he could have done about the rest, but he never holds the ball so the defence in front always have to then expect a rebound and clear it, that means they need to be first to the ball and therefore defend deep to ensure they get to it. In my opinion the way Joe plays has totally change how our back 4 play and they dont like it, wrongly or rightly.

Yes we’ve conceded 13 goals in 3 games but I don’t recall any of them being down to a mistake from Hart, and in all honesty, he’s prevented it being a lot more.

The defence need to concentrate on their own performance rather than that of Hart.

As much as Heaton organises the defence, they are all big enough & experienced enough together to know what they are doing themselves

Ok to please all you Heaton g#yboys I will play him next week to suit you ,why don't you all just f#ck off if you think that will make a difference

FactualFrank wrote:Hart's morale. It's basically saying, "Joe, it's your fault, so we're giving Tom a chance".

******** to Hart’s morale. We need to win.

Not Harts fault. Taylor is a loser and I pray Ward plays again and soon.
The system is not working. For their third goal when Lowton was upfield his position would have been covered last season. They all slid into position like a well oiled machine. This year all the graft has gone. Nobody can be arsed covering.

piston broke wrote:Not Harts fault. Taylor is a loser and I pray Ward plays again and soon.
The system is not working. For their third goal when Lowton was upfield his position would have been covered last season. They all slid into position like a well oiled machine. This year all the graft has gone. Nobody can be arsed covering.

Exactly this.
Also, what’s happened to us “funnelling” the opposition wide and to shoot from distance?
This was a major factor in our success last season, and also why Pope had the most shots faced/saved

IanMcL wrote:Hart has done ok...but he lacks something.

Yes. Like a functioning defence in front of him.

It feels like a stand off between the players and the management.
Needs resolved ASAP

Several goals have been conceded this season where Hart looks to have made a show of stopping them and only that. One particular headed goal looked entirely fixed, as he just put his hands up and it went straight through them. The flap at the back post against Fulham looked to be play-acting to me. I wonder what has gone on in China regarding our betting sponsors, because that's an entirely overseas concern that is not related to England in any way at all.

Pope, Heaton, Hart in that order. I think get rid of Hart in January, personally.

ClaretAL wrote:They was not actual 1 on 1 where they? the 3 occasions that i re all came from us back pedalling towards out goal even as deep as the 6yd box again trying to protect the goal as if Joe wasn't there. Please dont get me wrong, I really do rate Joe and apart from the 1 through his legs, there was not a lot he could have done about the rest, but he never holds the ball so the defence in front always have to then expect a rebound and clear it, that means they need to be first to the ball and therefore defend deep to ensure they get to it. In my opinion the way Joe plays has totally change how our back 4 play and they dont like it, wrongly or rightly.

Yes. Their first and their fourth. Their second might as well have been as well considering how far any of our defence was from the player

When Pope returns, Sean will have several options. Being a great goalie isn’t just about your own performance, it’s also about how you inspire and manage the players around you.

Luckily today there was no further goals from follow ups as Hart parried instead of catching, I was a massive Hart fan and chuffed he signed for us , I think he pulls off unbelievable saves but his mobility around the box and inability to catch costs us , he is a top class keeper distribution so much better than our other keepers however .. pope just makes it look so easy his positioning means he doesn't fling himself into the top corner to make top saves he just stands there and catches it ! For me Hart should be at a top 6 club making occassionall world class saves , pope and Heaton are used to seeing more of the ball than vokes , time for a change but not harts fault

Whatever it is ,something's wrong with our defence, particularly on the right. However, whilst I have wondered if it was connected to the change of keeper, it feels as though,we are missing a player of skill and strength just in front of the defence. In the past Joey fulfilled that Role,. Defour replaced him until he was injured as well as making incisive forward passes.He's not back to that yet.After his injury ,we were lucky to have Pope making many outstanding saves, so the absence of a rock in the centre of midfield didn't show in results, but certainly did in performances. If we can hold onto the ball and play in the wingers and forwards,rather than clearing the ball from defence to either the feet of the opposition or out of play, we might be a bit more like the team that won promotion two seasons ago and the one that started last season.

My word the clamour for Lionel Brady and Christiano Defour to return was funny.

This is beyond comical...

Have Heaton or Pope ever conceded 13 goals in 3 games?

No but the queen wipes her own arse ??? Relevance

JohnMac wrote:My word the clamour for Lionel Brady and Christiano Defour to return was funny.

This is beyond comical...

Marked improvement in our movement and play since their return but obviously we still need some more aggression in the middle

wilks_bfc wrote:Exactly this.
Also, what’s happened to us “funnelling” the opposition wide and to shoot from distance?
This was a major factor in our success last season, and also why Pope had the most shots faced/saved

A big fuss was made, last season, of our centre halves guarding inside the line of the posts so the shot down the middle was easier for the keeper. I noticed with Barkleys goal last week they were both inline with the posts giving him the full 8yds and he used them, sliding it just inside the post.

Think the whole system needs an overhaul. Our full backs are not getting the cover like they used to because we have more attack minded wingers. They are trying to cover them but let's face it they are not Arfield and Boyd and have other qualities we are not using because of the way we play. We need to hold on to the ball better and give the teams we come up against something to think about. The way we are playing is like watching a boxer who doesn't throw anything just blocks what's coming at him. The opposition are having an easy time and can pick there punches when coming up against us. Things need to change but not sure it's the keeper.

Ooogeorgeorgeoghani wrote:Luckily today there was no further goals from follow ups as Hart parried instead of catching, I was a massive Hart fan and chuffed he signed for us , I think he pulls off unbelievable saves but his mobility around the box and inability to catch costs us , he is a top class keeper distribution so much better than our other keepers however .. pope just makes it look so easy his positioning means he doesn't fling himself into the top corner to make top saves he just stands there and catches it ! For me Hart should be at a top 6 club making occassionall world class saves , pope and Heaton are used to seeing more of the ball than vokes , time for a change but not harts fault

Yes but if your wrong you have a very unfairly treated goalkeeper, whose career you may be effectively ending at any decent level who in effect has done nothing other than come for what Burnley had and prevented us getting drubbed to levels we have deserved. Its a tougher call than some suggest.

Hart is proving what we all really new when we signed him. He isn’t good enough.

He punched a cross today that I could of caught and he really doesn’t seem to organise his defence.