President George H.W. Bush dead at 94

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:20 am

41st president of the US from 1989-1993

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:31 am

New world order my arse ! looks like the swamp does it’s own draining ..

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:48 am

SmudgetheClaret wrote:New world order my arse ! looks like the swamp does it’s own draining ..

Buxtonclaret · Post by **Buxtonclaret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:08 am

[quote="Imploding Turtle"][/quote]

: giphy-downsized.gif (1.89 MiB) Viewed 3305 times

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:20 am

Capitalism isn't the problem socialism isn't the problem!

criminals in positions of power is the problem...Bush

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:43 am

An amazing life full of achievement.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:59 am

SmudgetheClaret wrote:Capitalism isn't the problem socialism isn't the problem!

criminals in positions of power is the problem...Bush

In what sense was he a criminal?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:01 am

nil_desperandum wrote:In what sense was he a criminal?

He criticised Trump. That's enough.

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:07 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Why do we count the number of US presidents?

Counting's fun.

Steve1956 · Post by **Steve1956** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:10 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Why do we count the number of US presidents?

I think it's similar to when we count our chickens

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:12 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:What number prime minister is Theresa may?

She's a number two.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:22 am

Maybe they should count the body bags associated with each President! that puts Trump at the top on 0 ..

BigChaCha · Post by **BigChaCha** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:26 am

He was a good man and my personal belief is that he believed that every choice he made was in the country's best interest and not just for political gain or ego like some others I could mention!

Paul Waine · Post by **Paul Waine** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:27 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Why do we count the number of US presidents?

I'm not certain, but think there might be some "small print" in the constitution that says "after X presidents" we tear up the existing constitution and write a new one....

In the scheme of things, George Bush was one of the better US presidents. RIP.

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:38 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Wasn't he a war monger just like junior?

No. Do you actually know anything about his role in world affairs?
He is very highly regarded, and history will judge him well.
It was his domestic failures that led to his defeat by Clinton.

Spijed · Post by **Spijed** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:50 am

nil_desperandum wrote:No. Do you actually know anything about his role in world affairs?
He is very highly regarded, and history will judge him well.
It was his domestic failures that led to his defeat by Clinton.

The big hypocrisy was the Invasion of Kuwait.

The USA got upset because Iraq invaded Kuwait and the American's spun the line that nation's had a right to expect protection from the rest of the world when invaded.

In reality, the USA was purely protecting the oil fields.

SmudgetheClaret · Post by **SmudgetheClaret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:55 am

You will always find a bush in a swamp..

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:56 am

Always thought he was a poor president.

Course, thats before anyone knew about President Trump

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:00 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Are you american(or live in america)? If not, why so touchy about my view on a US politician?

Not touchy at all, but I lived through his time in office, I've read books and have been reminded of his achievements by reading several obituaries this morning.
His role in ensuring a peaceful transition in Europe as Communism collapsed and Germany re-unified should not be underestimated.

Wexford_Claret · Post by **Wexford_Claret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:05 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Throughout recent history you can count the great US and British leaders on 2 fingers.. Kennedy and Churchill.. And even they were questionable..!

I think Attlee is genuinely considered to be the best, if not 2nd after Churchill, too.

Blackrod · Post by **Blackrod** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:22 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Is that recent history? Never heard of him..!

Not surprising. It's quite useful to have an understanding of different leaders throughout history so you have some context in which to offer fair appraisal.

Lancasterclaret · Post by **Lancasterclaret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:52 am

Got to admit, I knew he'd been shot down once during the war, but didn't realise he'd been shot down twice.

And his rescue 2nd time was captured on film from the USS Finback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 8ZYv2TFnZg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:54 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:. Therefore only the ones that make a real POSITIVE impact come to our attention.. I.E not many..!

Exactly, so Attlee, (Labour PM), who incidentally was at No. 10 in between Churchill's two stints must come somewhere near the top of the list, (even if you are instinctively Tory).

Bertiebeehead · Post by **Bertiebeehead** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:34 pm

Hold the front page, old man dies.

Hipper · Post by **Hipper** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:49 pm

Spijed wrote:The big hypocrisy was the Invasion of Kuwait.

The USA got upset because Iraq invaded Kuwait and the American's spun the line that nation's had a right to expect protection from the rest of the world when invaded.

In reality, the USA was purely protecting the oil fields.

What's wrong with that. Those oil fields are vital to the economies of the world. There would also have been a future threat to the Saudi oil fields.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:59 pm

Hsilgadmkris wrote:But I've never heard of him.. How could he have had such a great impact?

Can’t believe I just read that! #notrealifnottweeted

How about Vinton Cerf?
Here’s an easy one - Tim Berners-Lee

Im_not_Robbie_Blake · Post by **Im_not_Robbie_Blake** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:08 pm

Read this if you can bear to!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/0 ... ow-guards/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wexford_Claret · Post by **Wexford_Claret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:22 pm

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Is that recent history? Never heard of him..!

Goodness me!

Not only did he practically run the country during the war as Churchill led the war effort, he rebuilt it after WW2, with his government founding the NHS, building thousands of new houses and creating the Welfare State.

NRC · Post by **NRC** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:38 pm

Hsilgadmkris wrote:I must have gone to a crap school.

#myignoranceisnotmyfault

Foulthrow · Post by **Foulthrow** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:11 pm

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Why do we count the number of US presidents?

He was actually number 40 not number 41. They decided to count Grover Cleveland twice as he did two non consecutive terms.

tim_noone · Post by **tim_noone** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:50 pm

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Is it really important that a guy who makes his living driving vehicles, know these things..? I don't think so..!

You still driving a Saxo? Saxo

nil_desperandum · Post by **nil_desperandum** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:10 pm

Hsilgadmkris wrote:I must have gone to a crap school.

In fairness to you - and your school, historically there's been a disproportionate and unhealthy focus on war leaders and war in our teaching of British history, to the detriment of some of the really important domestic stuff, such as the Welfare State, immigration and the NHS.
Hence everyone's heard of Churchill, but some well-educated and highly intelligent people haven't heard of Attlee.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:17 pm

Bush, Sr. was a New England blueblood who became tremendously wealthy working the oil fields of Midland, Texas. Was shot down by the Japanese in World War ll, but was rescued before the sharks got him. He believed in individual enterprise, which is almost a forgotten concept these days. Of course, Texas is the home of the rugged individual. They all think they're John Wayne. His most famous quote was "Read my lips. No new taxes." Of course, he ended up raising taxes. This gave us Slick Willy and "It's the economy, stupid." Bush was the last one-term president, and maybe the last. Oops! I forgot Trump. What's it going to take to get him re-elected?

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:27 pm

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Throughout recent history you can count the great US and British leaders on 2 fingers.. Kennedy and Churchill.. And even they were questionable..!

On the British front i'd agree, but Obama was a great US president despite what some partisans might think. I'd put FDR ahead of both of them though.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:33 pm

Spijed wrote:The big hypocrisy was the Invasion of Kuwait.

The USA got upset because Iraq invaded Kuwait and the American's spun the line that nation's had a right to expect protection from the rest of the world when invaded.

In reality, the USA was purely protecting the oil fields.

And what was the USA protecting in World War 2? Itself. It didn't fight Germany just because it wanted to help Britain.

Does that make Roosevelt any less of a president? I don't think so. Now, if the USA had intervened on the other side to help the evil aggreesor nation against the more or less unarmed smaller country, then you'd have had a point.

tiger76 · Post by **tiger76** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:34 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:On the British front i'd agree, but Obama was a great US president despite what some partisans might think. I'd put FDR ahead of both of them though.

Finally somebody mentioned FDR,i thought the greatest reforming 4 term US president had been overlooked.

Vino blanco · Post by **Vino blanco** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:42 pm

As Churchill said of Atlee, "A modest man, with much to be modest about".

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:20 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:On the British front i'd agree, but Obama was a great US president despite what some partisans might think. I'd put FDR ahead of both of them though.

I don't think history will judge Obama as a great President, historic perhaps, ground breaking certainly, but not great .... I'd agree with FDR though and Attlee and Churchill !

Clarets4me · Post by **Clarets4me** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:22 am

Vino blanco wrote:As Churchill said of Atlee, "A modest man, with much to be modest about".

Oft quoted, and a comment for which he later apologised, along with his other quote " An empty taxi-cab pulled up outside No.10 Downing Street, and Mr Attlee got out "

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:26 am

Clarets4me wrote:I don't think history will judge Obama as a great President, historic perhaps, ground breaking certainly, but not great .... I'd agree with FDR though and Attlee and Churchill !

He'll be remembered well for turning around a ****** economy, reducing an exploded budget deficit caused by that ****** economy (which is why the national debt exploded while he was pres.), for paving the way for universal healthcare with his Affordable Care Act and for raising respect for America across the world after Bush royally ****** that up.
Of course he'll also be remembered for his use of drone strikes and prosecution of whistle-blowers so he was certainly not perfect. But compared to other US presidents he's certainly one of the best.

I almost forgot. 8 scandal-free years.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:59 am

Hsilgadmkris wrote:Throughout recent history you can count the great US and British leaders on 2 fingers.. Kennedy and Churchill.. And even they were questionable..!

It's great that we've got a new troll on board but you need to calm it a little or people will see through the veneer.

All the best

Rowls

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:00 am

Wexford_Claret wrote:I think Attlee is genuinely considered to be the best, if not 2nd after Churchill, too.

Everybody loves a comedian, Wexford.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:01 am

Lancasterclaret wrote:Got to admit, I knew he'd been shot down once during the war, but didn't realise he'd been shot down twice.

And his rescue 2nd time was captured on film from the USS Finback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 8ZYv2TFnZg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wow.

Cheers for sharing that Lancs.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:05 am

ontario claret wrote:Bush, Sr. was a New England blueblood who became tremendously wealthy working the oil fields of Midland, Texas. Was shot down by the Japanese in World War ll, but was rescued before the sharks got him. He believed in individual enterprise, which is almost a forgotten concept these days. Of course, Texas is the home of the rugged individual. They all think they're John Wayne. His most famous quote was "Read my lips. No new taxes." Of course, he ended up raising taxes. This gave us Slick Willy and "It's the economy, stupid." Bush was the last one-term president, and maybe the last. Oops! I forgot Trump. What's it going to take to get him re-elected?

Oh dear ontario.

That's the damndest and worsterest eulogy I ever read.

Bush, for all his faults, was far far better than that and I imagine that you -as an intelligent poster- know that in your heart.

Rowls · Post by **Rowls** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:08 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:I almost forgot. 8 scandal-free years.

8 policy free years too.

Obama will go down in history as the first (half) black president of the USA. Maybe history will recall that nice poster which said 'hope'.

None of his policies will be remembered.

Did he have any?

elwaclaret · Post by **elwaclaret** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:19 am

I find it hard to judge, maybe why I prefer history. Bush tenure was a weights and measures time for the U.S. Politics is the opposite of the stage - it's not how you finish its how you start.... by the time your bills start having an effect your running out of time. So Bush had to live with Reagan's bills for most of his presidency. It can be a boost e.g. Blair following Major or a millstone Major following ten years too long of Thatcher.

All in all I think Bush senior did ok, he wasn't great but he sailed a reasonably straight course. As for the first Iraq war, it was more honest than his son's, unfinished business. Of course it was all about money it was Capitalism's high water mark. He was a product of the time.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:35 am

Rowls wrote:8 policy free years too.

Obama will go down in history as the first (half) black president of the USA. Maybe history will recall that nice poster which said 'hope'.

None of his policies will be remembered.

Did he have any?

He had plenty of policies, including the policies that brought the US out of a deep recession, as well as the ACA. It's not his fault he couldn't get more done when the Republicans blocked everything he wanted to do. But you're not interested in understanding that fundamental fact of American politics. It doesn't matter to people like you that Obama was the first president in history where his party needed 60 votes in the Senate to get anything done because Republicans were desperate not to give him any legislative achievements. And what he has been able to do the Republicans have just spent two years doing everything they can to reverse, sometimes to a deadly cost.

ontario claret · Post by **ontario claret** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:26 pm

Economically speaking, FDR was the greatest American president. He used Keynesian policies to repair the great damage done by Herbert Hoover. In a downturn, you don't make things worse by cutting back on government expenditures. Of course, post-World War ll every president continues the same policy, which, combined with OPEC oil quotas, lead to a period of almost hyper-inflation. We've survived, but can we survive Trump?