Has Joe been unlucky getting dropped for the last two winnable games or has he bluffed a career playing for a club like City where his faults never came to light,I think we should off load him in this window and move on.

Agree

Would he have been slated for not attempting to come out for that floated in cross similar to the Everton one that Hudds scored from?

The Enclosure wrote:Agree

I like Hart but I really don't think he's a fit at the Turf.

I don’t think he’s been at fault. But bringing Heaton back has given the supporters a lift. He is fan favourite who didn’t do anything wrong to lose his place.

I think that helped lift the performance against West Ham.

Hart is good but Tom and Nick are better and Hart is probably on big wages.
Perhaps I should say Tom snd Nick are a better fit for Burnley.

I don't agree with above as it was plainly obvious while he was in the nets and now he isn't that he wasn't controlling the back four . Heaton never stops talking to them to push them out etc and obviously positioning them better . That is half the job of a goalkeeper not just a shot stopper as if the defenders and positioned right the shots don't come as often as we are more difficult to break down . Let's not forget we have already played some lower end teams and been played off the park and never looked like scoring

Steve1956 wrote:Has Joe been unlucky getting dropped for the last two winnable games or has he bluffed a career playing for a club like City where his faults never came to light,I think we should off load him in this window and move on.

Was pretty good on loan at Birmingham City as well who were hardly Man City.

Heaton seems to be getting off lightly for conceding a goal last night that Hart would have been getting battered for.

I don't rate Joe hart. He was a good keeper in front of a defences that cost millions,can't dive to his left.We could do with selling him.
To Leeds

deanothedino wrote:Heaton seems to be getting off lightly for conceding a goal last night that Hart would have been getting battered for.

But you can understand why?

personally I think the most saleable asset at our club is nick pope and somewhere down the line the big boys will come knocking. We must make sure he is tied up with a good contract and when the inevitable happens make a small fortune selling him. Maybe we can buy a couple of really decent players with the proceeds.

Hart is a good keeper but best with a better defence in front of him. Heaton and Pope are better and used to the Burnley team set up.

Heaton's communication is a real strength and something that seems to have really helped.

He’s just not as good a keeper at Heaton or Pope. He was years ago, he’s not now.

Bordeauxclaret wrote:He’s just not as good a keeper at Heaton or Pope. He was years ago, he’s not now.

This.

bfccrazy wrote:Would he have been slated for not attempting to come out for that floated in cross similar to the Everton one that Hudds scored from?

Mountie was a bit further out the the Everton player, and the cross came from deeper. I wouldn’t really rxpect a keeper to go for that cross.

In an ideal world, of the three I’d offload Hart, but I really think we might struggle to find a buyer who would a) pay a decent fee, b) match his wages c) be acceptable to Hart.

FactualFrank wrote:But you can understand why?

No, not really. I don't do double standards myself but each to their own.

(For what it's worth I wouldn't be giving either keeper stick for it but others have done for Hart)

didn't Citeh give him a golden Handshake then his wages could be in line with Burnley's budget?

deanothedino wrote:No, not really.

Fair enough.

The subject of Hart keeps cropping up, we should be done with it now.

He played, we, for whatever reason, were absolutely shite, we have dropped him, we are no longer playing shite.

Those are the facts, whether he was the reason I doubt we will ever know but for the good of Hart's career he should probably be moved on in the summer. He is too expensive to be a number two, let alone a number three (and as our current squad is, that is what he is).

Joe Hart is a good keeper, and our player of the season. Unluckily for him, but luckily for us, we are blessed with a couple of keepers who are even better.
I do feel sorry for him, but it was the right thing to do to bring Tom back in. That doesn't warrant the slagging and disrespect he's getting from some on this thread.
Give your heads a shake, you're embarrassing.

Hart is a very good goalkeeper, his record speaks for itself. He's played 70 odd times for England and has been a PL winner on 2 occasions. Also has a host of other medals and individual awards. However as I've stated before, he's not as good for us as Tom or Nick, and his prolonged selection has cost us points. Maybe not all down to him but the defence has been shambolic all too often. TH especially is ingrained in the SD mantra and a club legend. I for one would have been bitterly disappointed if he'd been allowed to leave this window in the present circumstances. His presence has certainly been a catalyst in helping us to 2 wins. It's all well and good saying we need this player and that player, but sometimes the solution is much closer to home.

what’s the point of the spectacular save or two if your also shipping 4 or 5 goals a game? Hart is ok but way past his sell by date.
Hart couldn’t do wrong with some posters on here (who have mostly suddenly gone mute) but to others it was quite glaringly obvious that a change was needed and fast!!!
Heaton/Pope are on another level.

When you don't get many shots at you and still are known for making errors, every so often, you are not as good as your press.

I still cannot understand the criticism of Hart.
Fact: he was brought in because he was NEEDED. Heaton and Pope were long term injuries.
Fact: we would have less points than we have now but for some of his performances.
Fact: he has barely put a foot wrong but many seem to have had an issue with him before we even signed him.
Fact: when he has made the odd error he has come in for massive stick that Heaton or Pope wouldn't have got for doing the same (as many have pointed out last night).

I think people should leave the guy alone. Heaton is back now and long may that continue but we should thank Hart for what he's done even if he never plays another game for us, not come out with statements like 'we should ship him out' as though he has been a waste of time and money.

deanothedino wrote:. Heaton seems to be getting off lightly for conceding a goal last night that Hart would have been getting battered for.

I think you are wrong there dino even a top form Joe Hart wouldn't have got to that one..... Mounie headed it into the ground so taking out the keeper.... almost requiring a fluke save to have kept it out.

Bosscat wrote:I think you are wrong there dino even a top form Joe Hart wouldn't have got to that one..... Mounie headed it into the ground so taking out the keeper.... almost requiring a fluke save to have kept it out.

Where did I say Hart would save it?

I'm saying we've conceded similar goals with Hart in net and he's got pelters for not coming off his line... Heaton was nailed to his line, just like Hart would have been, and no one has batted an eyelid.

Tom is the best organiser.Joe is like Silent Bob of Enigma fame.

deanothedino wrote:Where did I say Hart would save it?

I'm saying we've conceded similar goals with Hart in net and he's got pelters for not coming off his line... Heaton was nailed to his line, just like Hart would have been, and no one has batted an eyelid.

I get where you are coming from Deano and agree.

I think its a fair shout to say that the defence is looking more settled and together as a unit with Heaton back in the nets instead of Hart however we will be able to see if this holds true over the next couple of months or if we go back to shipping goals with Heaton in. What I think has been exaggerated by some is how good Heaton was at coming for balls as that was always his main weakness before Pope came in.

No way was Heaton at fault for the Huddersfield goal but if Hart had been in the nets he would have got partially blamed at least for being routed to his line in a way Heaton is not

For now Im glad Heaton is back in, not because Hart has been poor but because for whatever reason (and it could be coincidence) we look much more solid and long may it continue

If pope has a faultless game against Barnsley we may not see hart again.
Personally don't blame Heaton fir last nights goal, that cross was an absolute beauty.

Shore claret wrote:Personally don't blame Heaton fir last nights goal, that cross was an absolute beauty.

Watching it I thought poor defending, not the fault of Heaton.

Has there ever been a more bipolar opening post to a thread?

I'd let him go even if it's just on loan. Used to be borderline world class but now he's barely premier league standard. He couldn't catch a cold. Heaton and Pope are the way forward despite Tom's age.

He is a world class shot stopper. He's short falls lie with his ability to catch, decision making when coming off his line, dealing with a cross and commanding his area. Unfortunately we need all that and Heaton and Pope do all this better. I like Hart but he doesn't have what we need.

Joe Hart is a good goalkeeper and I don't doubt his commitment. I have a theory that he is actually trying too hard. As soon as he came into the team I had a negative read on his body language. Much outward display of passion but it looked very intense and critical and this can erode confidence and that all-important sense of team, in the players around you. It was very interesting to me that in a recent interview Hart thought he deserved a place in the World Cup squad on the basis of his dressing room influence in qualifying. My take on the World Cup squad was that it was the most relaxed, friendly and confident group we've had in years.

Devils_Advocate wrote:What I think has been exaggerated by some is how good Heaton was at coming for balls as that was always his main weakness before Pope came in.

Exactly the point I'm making. Of our three keepers only one comes for much and that is Pope. It's not a particularly common trait in modern goalkeeping to come from crosses (unless you're Ederson, who would give me kittens if he was in net for us)

“Bluffed a career” ????

Whatever you think of him now / last couple of seasons he was previous to that a far better and more successful keeper than Heaton and Pope could dream of.
75 or so caps under different managers and no 1 City keeper for years is some “bluffing”.....maybe he’ll get an Oscar soon to put in his bulging trophy cabinet.

It might be that going from a City legend and captain of England to being humiliated by Pep has had a tiny knock on his confidence ?

With the other two back up keepers we have, neither of which are slouches, I personally never understood the acquisition of Hart. A luxury, an indulgence as it were, but I recognize I’m in a minority

https://www.burnleyexpress.net/sport/fo ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dandeclaret wrote:Has there ever been a more bipolar opening post to a thread?

Could you explain that to me?

Personally, I didn't want us to sign Joe Hart even though he has been a top goalkeeper.

We have two World Class keepers in Tom and Nick. We don't need a third. Three into one doesn't go and makes for discontent within the group.

I understand why we invested but, it is time for him to move on, with our blessing.

jedi_master wrote:The subject of Hart keeps cropping up, we should be done with it now.

He played, we, for whatever reason, were absolutely shite, we have dropped him, we are no longer playing shite.

Those are the facts, whether he was the reason I doubt we will ever know but for the good of Hart's career he should probably be moved on in the summer. He is too expensive to be a number two, let alone a number three (and as our current squad is, that is what he is).

I think an interesting point that has been made over and over again, is that Hart doesn't marshall the defenders in the way that Heaton does. It's a little like Pope's kicking, which was always brought up as a weakness. I would imagine (because I don't know) that every player has their own "personal improvement plan" - increasing their abilities in certain areas, and finding ways around their weaknesses. All to make them better. And I would think that if Hart has a difficulty of any kind communicating with his defence, then that would be something he could work on (more so than jumping higher, or being more flexible). This said, I still just want the best Burnley GK on the field - and whoever management put there I trust in their judgement. I really have no other choice.

2 games, one of which was against a non-scoring attack (which actually managed a goal) hardly proves anything. A bit early to say we're on the mend, and a bit early to lay all our short-comings on Joe Hart.

I thought Sean made an interesting point in one of his recent articles, about patience bringing players through. He stated how this was the case with Pope. How we prefer to bed players in before first team action, whether it is players coming through our ranks or new additions to the squad. It allows the players to develop a good understanding of each other and how we work.

Hart was pretty much thrown into the deep end of first team duties with little time for preparation.

Our defenders are like thoroughbred stallions, you have to learn how to ride them to get the very best out of them. Tom and Nick have had a long time to learn how to handle them, reigning them in or letting them run free as the situation demands, but Joe is fresh in the saddle.

Woah there horsies, easy fellas

GER OUT!

Developing an effective level of understanding and familiarity can take time, but it is often the difference between a group of individuals and a unified collective. Giving Hart some under the radar time to familiarise himself with the other lads and what we are about can only work to our benefit and the benefit of Joe.

Bringing Heaton back in has been fantastic decision for the two games. But that’s all it’s been, two games- against two poor sides. I’ll reserve judgement before writing off a blokes whole career.

Heaton did well in the west ham game. And had little to do in the huddersfield game.

BUT we won both. Which is great. And hppefuly in part that was down to Heatons organisation because if so that will see us in good sted for the next half of the season. And we will need it.

Bit a few things to note.

Hart is our player of the season so far.
Pope and Heaton have both had fairly serious injuries. What happens if they do again? Be careful what you wish for wanting shut of Hart is all I will say on that one.
We have played a winnable home game and away to the worse team in the league. A team who cant score - but did score the sort of goal harts been slated for.
We conceded just 6 shots on target in the last 2 games combined. Hart was regularly facing way more than this. Against the same West Ham team we conceded 10 shots on target! I acknowledge that having the captain in may have SOME bearing in improved organisation.

It shows the fickle nature of football. People are responding like the seasons saved. Lose against Fulham and it will be doom and gloom again.

In an ideal world Pope wouldnt have got injured in a game he probably wouldnt have played in had Heaton not got injured. Which given the nature and length of their injuries could feasibly happen again. Happens a lot with recovering players.

And in that ideal world we would have qualified for Europe and taken it serious. Heaton would have played 12 Europa games by now and a league cup tie. With potentially a few more Europa games and The FA Cup. And Pope would have played 19 league games, thus rotating our two existing keepers perfectly.

However it wasnt to be. We needed Hart and may need him again. Hopefuly not as it means the change has soeted out all our woes....

Whatever happens, thanks to Hart for stepping in qnd for winning us some valuable points. None more so than cardiff and southampton which could be vital come May.

cricketfieldclarets wrote:Heaton did well in the west ham game. And had little to do in the huddersfield game.

BUT we won both. Which is great. And hppefuly in part that was down to Heatons organisation because if so that will see us in good sted for the next half of the season. And we will need it.

Bit a few things to note.

Hart is our player of the season so far.
Pope and Heaton have both had fairly serious injuries. What happens if they do again? Be careful what you wish for wanting shut of Hart is all I will say on that one.
We have played a winnable home game and away to the worse team in the league. A team who cant score - but did score the sort of goal harts been slated for.
We conceded just 6 shots on target in the last 2 games combined. Hart was regularly facing way more than this. Against the same West Ham team we conceded 10 shots on target! I acknowledge that having the captain in may have SOME bearing in improved organisation.

It shows the fickle nature of football. People are responding like the seasons saved. Lose against Fulham and it will be doom and gloom again.

In an ideal world Pope wouldnt have got injured in a game he probably wouldnt have played in had Heaton not got injured. Which given the nature and length of their injuries could feasibly happen again. Happens a lot with recovering players.

And in that ideal world we would have qualified for Europe and taken it serious. Heaton would have played 12 Europa games by now and a league cup tie. With potentially a few more Europa games and The FA Cup. And Pope would have played 19 league games, thus rotating our two existing keepers perfectly.

However it wasnt to be. We needed Hart and may need him again. Hopefuly not as it means the change has soeted out all our woes....

Whatever happens, thanks to Hart for stepping in qnd for winning us some valuable points. None more so than cardiff and southampton which could be vital come May.

all well and good and I'm a big Hart fan, tbh you have to pinch yourself that he has even played for Burnley.................BUT my soul just feels better with Heaton in the team, there is a calmness he brings. I can see Hart going before Heaton or Pope

Another Hart fan here, I think he is an excellent shot-stopper and I was against dropping him from the start, but that West Ham game has changed my mind. Heaton being prepared to cover so much ground at the back seemed to allow our defence to push further forward and made it easier for our full backs to get into the match. When Hart is in the goal we seem to sit deeper and invite other teams onto us.

Obviously it could just be a change in the way Dyche has told the team to play, but it feels like more than a coincidence.

As CFC said it was quite unbelievable to see Hart playing for Burnley and he covered for us at a we needed him and helped us get some very valuable points on the board early on this season in games we didn't really deserve to get them.

I still think for the right team he would be a hell of a signing and although I am not totally writing him off for Burnley, I think moving back with Heaton or Pope seems the right move for this team setup.

NRC wrote:With the other two back up keepers we have, neither of which are slouches, I personally never understood the acquisition of Hart. A luxury, an indulgence as it were, but I recognize I’m in a minority

If we'd have stuck with those "other two back up keepers" rather than signing Hart, then, as has been pointed
out further up the thread, we'd certainly have a quite a few less points than we currently have, because
neither of them would, imo, have pulled off some of the brilliant saves Hart did.

Vital signing at the time.

With football being a team game having a starting eleven that functions well is like a jigsaw puzzle.

Sean has tried various pieces whilst keeping Hart in the team and it hasn't worked.

Heaton and McNeil seem to fit well.