No fan of here’s , while an able politician per se,she’s devoid of that all important leader factor charisma . Though in fairness she’s taken the poison chalice and done her level best with an impossible task she doesn’t even support . Personally I think it’s a disgrace that the MP’s are holding the country to ransom. Yes her deal is weak but it’s better than no deal and gets us out the EU let’s just get the feck on with it and calm things down . A 2nd ref is not good and a general election a real no no . A bit of stability and then vote the Tories out for a decade at the next election date

She applied for this gig.

No. None at all.

She’s incompetent. I’m not going to feel any sympathy for her because she’s leading equally incompetent people.

I'm sure all those who support the leading advocate of a kinder, gentler politics will be along in a minute to tell us how, although they disagree with her policies, they believe that most politicians of all sides act out of a sense of public and national interest and that, however well or badly she's done it, they can see that was her driving force in difficult circumstances so, yes, they have some sympathy for her.

Nope

She's spent two years trying to appease the right of her party at the expense of uniting the country with a sensible Brexit.

Today is the day reality hits her, just like its hit everybody else*

*obviously apart from those who ignore reality

It's a tough job but fell sorry for her nah. Constant lies and what she did to the police force as home secretary can't be forgiven.

No. Seems to make the right call at the wrong time too often.
Her ideas on social funding were not as mad as folk think. We have already jacked up a massive debt for our future generation, for those of us with property worth a few bob why not use that to pay some of the costs to fund whatever social care we have had to use on our last few years rather than
tax the working population even more. That went down like a lead balloon in 2017 when she also got the wrong call for an election.
I think she needs to look in the mirror and see how being PM has taken it out of her and consider her future. That kind of job and type 1 diabetes probably don't go together too easily.

Bordeauxclaret wrote:No. None at all.

She’s incompetent. I’m not going to feel any sympathy for her because she’s leading equally incompetent people.

She’s not incompetent as such but I can’t see what she has to work with and I can’t see what any leader could do ? But she did as is stated “ apply for the gig” ? I imagine she thought she’d have the backing of her party

Lancasterclaret wrote: She's spent two years trying to appease the right of her party

And also trying (bizarrely and unintentionally) to deliver the Brexit most of the opposition leave voters wanted, it would seem.

Not an ounce.

She’s incompetent and she is a liar.

And also trying (bizarrely and unintentionally) to deliver the Brexit most of the opposition leave voters wanted, it would seem.

Not really. If she'd had accepted a permanent customs union this would be done and dusted now.

But she's worried more about the ERG than the country, and for a PM that is unforgivable.

Sympathy my a**se.
Cameron resigned, she wanted to be leader, she knew what she was getting herself into
and wanted to do it.
She has presided over a deal which few Remainers or Leavers are happy with,
She didn't even try to get cross party consensus on her negotiating stance.
She is a weak leader, just when our country needed the strongest possible one.
Her judgement in calling a General Election and the way she fought it was laughable.
She is behind the Windrush scandal.

I just hope this pathetic woman does the honourable thing after tonight's vote and RESIGNS!!!!!

AlargeClaret wrote:She’s not incompetent as such but I can’t see what she has to work with and I can’t see what any leader could do ? But she did as is stated “ apply for the gig” ? I imagine she thought she’d have the backing of her party

Triggering Article 50 without having the first bloody clue what to do, calling the election, her stalling of this vote, her inability to actually talk normally ...... that’s incompetent.

One can almost feel the love for saint Theresa

And do you know what will sum up her approach to this whole debacle?

If she loses tonight and then resigns.

That would pretty much guarantee a disastrous "No Deal"

Lancasterclaret wrote:And do you know what will sum up her approach to this whole debacle?

If she loses tonight and then resigns.

That would pretty much guarantee a disastrous "No Deal"

So if she doesn't, you'll have misread her whole approach?

Whatever you think about her and the failings concerning the whole Brexit affair, there is not one other politician who would like to be in her shoes and trying to sort out the whole mess.
They will all be more than happy to stay out of it until the whole mess is sorted just so they can say "It was nothing to do with me."
Life will go on regardless, so just don't worry about it, there is absolutely nothing that you can do to influence what happens next. Keep smiling!

Lancasterclaret wrote:And do you know what will sum up her approach to this whole debacle?

If she loses tonight and then resigns.

That would pretty much guarantee a disastrous "No Deal"

Here's hoping. And it wouldn't be disastrous.

Nope, she believes her deal is the best one out there and will unite the country. I don't agree with the second bit (that bird has flown!) but the first bit I fear she is correct on, which is why I supported it.

But that is based on Article 50 running out on March 29th.

Here's hoping. And it wouldn't be disastrous.

Two years of arguing about the economic impacts have resulted (just not on here, all over the place) in that view being completely and utterly owned.

Stick to arguments about sovereignty and stuff, there is enough wiggle room in there for Brexiteers to have something.

I have little sympathy for her. However, unlike LC i think that her problem had been the treachery of Sourby, Greive and a handful of tory remainers from the day after the brexit vote. They have never accepted the result.

The likes of IDS are simply holding out for what was in the tory and labour manifestos. They would vote for the current deal if the backstop had a way out. The latter is clearly the nearest we ae going to get to something passing that would het anywhere near meeting those manifestos.

So six? seven? Conservative MPs had more clout in stopping this then 80+ ERG members?

Jeez Summit, come off it!

The election call by her to destroy the opposition remains her worst call, and she can blame no one else but herself for that one.

Being a Type 1 diabetic also, yes. I cannot begin to imagine going through this whole mess keeping control of her blood sugars; the stress levels must have made it nigh on impossible. Regardless of that, a little sympathy but as already covered she wanted it and knew the territory. I feel a little sorry for her in that she has got a deal and wants to deliver Brexit, as asked for by the referendum, whilst at the same time most brexiteers and campaigners of Brexit aren't happy with that & are now acting like the remainers were after losing, i.e. wanting something different (in the remainers case another vote; in the brexiteers case a different deal). In the end, the only feasable outcome now is to have another referendum and if she loses tonight that should be the Plan B. Brexiteers don't want this deal; The EU doesn't want to change this deal; Remainers still don't want to leave. Unfortunately, it has become about Labour vs Cons and this should never have come into the equation; the vote wasn't about political parties.

Lancasterclaret wrote:And do you know what will sum up her approach to this whole debacle?

If she loses tonight and then resigns.

That would pretty much guarantee a disastrous "No Deal"

That would be the best possible outcome for everyone. No May and a no deal. Perfection.

I have some sympathy for her -
She took over a mess left by a incompetent predecessor, she's obviously worked hard and will end up losing her job. She's made a load of mistakes but has had little support from her colleagues or opposition who have put their thirst for power above everything else

Would those who voted in favour of leaving prefer us to leave with no deal, or stay in?

I have always held a highly cynical view of the proposal put forward being a tactic. Knowing that it won't go through, plunging us into a second referendum with enough leave voters sufficiently spooked at the idea of a 'No deal' Brexit to switch their vote round making the last three years a colossal waste of time and money.

I voted remain, for what it's worth (very much a 'better the devil you know' type of guy).

thatdberight wrote:I'm sure all those who support the leading advocate of a kinder, gentler politics will be along in a minute to tell us how, although they disagree with her policies, they believe that most politicians of all sides act out of a sense of public and national interest and that, however well or badly she's done it, they can see that was her driving force in difficult circumstances so, yes, they have some sympathy for her.

I do believe the majority of politicians of all stripes have a sense of duty to a greater or lesser degree, and even that is not always incompatible with their self-interest.

May's problems are all of her own making though, so it's hard to have sympathy. From the beginning she tried to keep control of brexit herself - going so far as to try to deny Parliament a final say (and lets face it, leavers didn't want to take back control to give it to an elected dictator). She didn't create a brexit commission to consider all views and come up with a coherent plan. She didn't even consult with other political parties, and as we all know she led a divided cabinet through the negotiation process. She called a quick election in an effort to win a larger majority, and we all know how that turned out. There was nothing tangible about brexit in her manifesto (she could have put together a fairly detailed brexit-centric manifesto, that if all Tory MPs campaigned under she could have held them to that position, and she had at least eight or nine months to put that together, but no). If she really was in an impossible position, then yes, sympathy would be forthcoming, but she's where she is through her own bad choices more than circumstance. And unless she withdraws the bill (the only sensible thing to do, and then resign) she will suffer the greatest humiliation of a sitting PM in recent history.

One thing that I won't miss when all this is over is glib meaningless statements that just reinforce the opinion that people haven't bothered enough to understand the reality of what "No Deal" means.

I feel a little sympathy for her, in so far as she felt the need to support the idea she is a 'bloody difficult woman' and sees stubbornness as a virtue.

In business terms, she has all the hallmarks of an excellent manager and a very limited leader. So she has been over-promoted.

Unlike most women she can't dance, unlike most adults she struggles to get out of a car, and she has been given a virtually impossible job.

So, because I have a heart, I feel a little sorry for her.

Masses of respect.she was dealt a crap hand,took up the cudgel and came up with the best possible deal we were ever going to get.
She took this on when none of her fellow MP,s would cos they had no balls ,all they do is bellyache about a particular pet hobbyhorse and dont see the bigger picture.
TM commands a lot of respect from world leaders for the way she has conducted herself .Make no mistake she is a very tough cookie.
I almost laugh out loud at the mess and chaos Corbyn and that stupid shadow home secretary Diane Abbot would have caused.
The country made a democratic decision to leave.we WILL leave on the 29th March with or without a deal so get used to it.

There is no deal that she could have agreed that would be supported by the rest of the House. The Labour Party will never support any deal as the softer the deal the more it would alienate their northern supporters and most importantly they see this as their best chance of winning an election.

The backstop is a complete red herring with this trapped in nonsense. The backstop is worse for the EU - we get full access without paying, no freedom of movement and our own laws, fishing rights et al. Why would the EU want to keep us in a backstop?

Labours ******** about “a custom union not The Customs Union” and keeping us in the Single Market without accepting free movement and the ECJ is just pathetic.

Lancasterclaret wrote:One thing that I won't miss when all this is over is glib meaningless statements that just reinforce the opinion that people haven't bothered enough to understand the reality of what "No Deal" means.

I wouldnt say glib at all as i havent got a clue from start to finish wtf is going on.But like all walks of life if you want to be a leader be prepared for the crap that comes with it.at least were not at war....though we are good at creating a few.

No sympathy at all, she's a big, stiff idiot and has been a zombie PM since her botched election.

SammyBoy wrote:No sympathy at all, she's a big, stiff idiot and has been a zombie PM since her botched election.

Say it how it is Sammy

No. She reduced police numbers drastically and then had the brass neck to scoff at their conference when they said crime would rise. Well, guess what.

Lancasterclaret wrote:And do you know what will sum up her approach to this whole debacle?

If she loses tonight and then resigns.

That would pretty much guarantee a disastrous "No Deal"

She did pick up a poison chalice, but the disastrous no deal is down to her trying to appease remainers. She's always been lukewarm to Brexit.
It's an issue that is always going to divide people, right or wrong, and bringing people together was an impossible task. But as a politician she should have seen that and negotiated hard, or stepped aside for someone who did believe.
Could they have got better?, we'll never know sadly.

Lancasterclaret wrote:And do you know what will sum up her approach to this whole debacle?

If she loses tonight and then resigns.

That would pretty much guarantee a disastrous "No Deal"

I think there is too much opposition in parliament to no deal, and too much opposition within the country itself. Polls have shown that fewer than one in five people would like a no deal (and that is when given a limited choice rather than what they truly want).

For some people to call Soubry and Grieve 'wreckers' when all they have done is stand behind their principles is a little strange. As Lancaster says - if a certain group of brexit extremists hadn't piled so much pressure on May to conform to their vision, then perhaps she might have cast a wider net with regards the kind of deal. The red lines she set out - and some of which she subsequently crossed - were too extreme, and responsible for all the faffing around the Irish border. If the issues about citizen rights, divorce settlement, and Irish border had been agreed much earlier, then we could be in a very different place right now. As it is, I can see nothing ahead but a second referendum.

She did pick up a poison chalice, but the disastrous no deal is down to her trying to appease brexiteers. Too much time spent trying to appease the ERG (who turned out to be toothless) and not enough time spent looking at what deal was best for the country.

Burnley Ace wrote:There is no deal that she could have agreed that would be supported by the rest of the House. The Labour Party will never support any deal as the softer the deal the more it would alienate their northern supporters and most importantly they see this as their best chance of winning an election.

The backstop is a complete red herring with this trapped in nonsense. The backstop is worse for the EU - we get full access without paying, no freedom of movement and our own laws, fishing rights et al. Why would the EU want to keep us in a backstop?

Labours ******** about “a custom union not The Customs Union” and keeping us in the Single Market without accepting free movement and the ECJ is just pathetic.

Labour are being totally disingenuous by claiming they could negotiate Single Market membership and not accept FOM and the ECJ,no one in their right mind can believe this baloney.

Do Labour really want a General Election as then they would be confronted with having to make tough choices which will in all likelihood alienate either their remain voters or their Northern leave voters,be careful what you wish for Jeremy.

And Andrew AB, if they have second referendum then democracy in this Country is dead in the water.

No it isn't, thats pure "Project Fear"

Peston being apocalyptic though!

https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/post ... __tn__=K-R" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

she's an awful human being from way before she got involved in brexit.

no sympathy whatsoever.

The Enclosure wrote:Masses of respect.she was dealt a crap hand,took up the cudgel and came up with the best possible deal we were ever going to get.
She took this on when none of her fellow MP,s would cos they had no balls ,all they do is bellyache about a particular pet hobbyhorse and dont see the bigger picture.
TM commands a lot of respect from world leaders for the way she has conducted herself .Make no mistake she is a very tough cookie.
I almost laugh out loud at the mess and chaos Corbyn and that stupid shadow home secretary Diane Abbot would have caused.
The country made a democratic decision to leave.we WILL leave on the 29th March with or without a deal so get used to it.

Your post reminds me of this tweet by David Cameron (on the eve of the 2015 election):

https://twitter.com/david_cameron/statu ... 56?lang=en" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have a feeling that we'll be remaining in the EU for some time, because parliament (thankfully) will not allow Britain just to crash out. While the EU welcome a new, more grown up negotiating team and position, and sit down with them for a year, you can reflect on Cameron's words.

No, she's absolutely horrific.

Lancasterclaret wrote:So six? seven? Conservative MPs had more clout in stopping this then 80+ ERG members?

Jeez Summit, come off it!

The election call by her to destroy the opposition remains her worst call, and she can blame no one else but herself for that one.

8 or so tory remainers could be all that is needed to vote any government motion down. So yes they have all the clot they need.

The Enclosure wrote:And Andrew AB, if they have second referendum then democracy in this Country is dead in the water.

The whole of Parliament should hang their heads in shame and Corbyn's abasement should be the deepest. His policy has been "whatever the deal we will vote against it, regardless." His line has been "let's have a GE so we can get into power and renegotiate". What utter guff. No-one can negotiate with Juncker and Co because they aren't interested, that is the truth of it. We have seen the slimy underbelly of Parliament in the last 2 years, with Bercow and Grieve openly plotting to subvert the outcome of the referendum, JRM and Co looking for a pure Brexit that just isn't possible, BoJo being BoJo. They are all an utter disgrace.

Fair play to her for sticking it out.
She's probably going to look a bit silly today again, but she's certainly got a thick skin

Colburn_Claret wrote:She did pick up a poison chalice, but the disastrous no deal is down to her trying to appease remainers. She's always been lukewarm to Brexit.
It's an issue that is always going to divide people, right or wrong, and bringing people together was an impossible task. But as a politician she should have seen that and negotiated hard, or stepped aside for someone who did believe.
Could they have got better?, we'll never know sadly.

This is interesting, because I believe she spent too long trying to appease the more extreme among her brexit caucus. How would you say she tried to appease remainers? Her red lines set out a more brexit hardline stance than many leavers talked about during the referendum.

She was dealt a poor hand but that 'hand' did contain the one card that she could have made use of - a decision on when to trigger article 50.

She chose to play that card, in an attempt to appease the right wing of her party, before using to gain a single concession from the EU. All they then had to do was sit back and wait out the time - no need to concede anything to the UK.

The other errors that followed, to compound that, have been detailed already.

We're going to pay a heavy price for a succession of leaders who've failed over and over to put the best interests of the country first.

Anyone a clear idea of what May does next after defeat and not resigning ? As can’t see the EU giving her more and what can she come back to parliament with ? Though I’m guessing that just runs the clock down to no deal ?