An interesting discussion so far.

More rubbish from the PM.

She's lost the vote by 230.

Big defeat.

ElectroClaret wrote:She's lost the vote by 230.

She's trying to turn it around to be ok.

Should have had Tarks kicking the nays away from the box.

Managed defeat. Everything will be fine.

Pretty straightforward now.

Another referendum and remain wins.

FactualFrank wrote:Pretty straightforward now.

Another referendum and remain wins.

Yeah, how very democratic....not.

Longsidebogs wrote:Yeah, how very democratic....not.

Knowledge is King.

FactualFrank wrote:Knowledge is King.

Short term. Longer term, possibly not

Belief feels nicer, though. Everything will be fine. It's a managed defeat.

What a complete and utter waste of time and money.

It'll pay for itself with the Brexit dividend. Believe harder.

Frank..personally I think another referendum would be undemocratic.

I also think LEAVE would win more easily than before.

Is this thinking correct..?... May will win the ‘no confidence’ vote. If she lost that she would have to resign.

That would lead to a leadership election or general election whereupon the Tory Party would tear itself apart in serious infighting.

DCWat wrote:Short term. Longer term, possibly not

Hmm. Maybe. I think leaving with a deal is common sense.

FactualFrank wrote:Knowledge is King.

So when the next party that wins the General election, if we dont like the outcome can we have a second go at it because of the ******** we didn't understand, absolute Hippocracy and this country is becoming a dictatorship which our forefathers must be turning in the graves. all this rubbish of "ahh but you now have more knowledge" could be cast over every single election ever run, as none of them deliver what they say.

Most nations want to trade either individually or collectively as a block. The problem we have is we are trying to leave but join at the same time. We should leave with no deal and join the North Atlantic free trade area, then approach the EU as part of a larger trading group.

ClaretAL wrote:So when the next party that wins the General election, if we dont like the outcome can we have a second go at it because of the ******** we didn't understand, absolute Hippocracy and this country is becoming a dictatorship which our forefathers must be turning in the graves. all this rubbish of "ahh but you now have more knowledge" could be cast over every single election ever run, as none of them deliver what they say.

How is it becoming a dictatorship?

There is only one sensible answer to this now...

We need a public vote where the 2 questions are:

1- leave with the deal on the table.

2 - leave without it..

Stop playing party politics pretending you know what people who voted leave want and let the people tell you what to do.

Under no circumstances can a peoples vote have any reference to remaining in the name of democracy...

ClaretAL wrote:So when the next party that wins the General election, if we dont like the outcome can we have a second go at it

Yes. That's exactly what will happen. It's what has happened for hundreds of years and it's enshrined in law, although the fixed term Parliament act, (enacted by the Tory /Lib Dem Coalition), has made it slightly more difficult .

Wonder if RingoMcCartney is outside Westminster with some banners at this very moment

clarethomer wrote: Under no circumstances can a peoples vote have any reference to remaining in the name of democracy...

Care to explain - coherently - why?
There's absolutely no logic to what you have said, and I think it's impossible to construct an argument that supports this view.

ClaretAL wrote:So when the next party that wins the General election, if we dont like the outcome can we have a second go at it because of the ******** we didn't understand, absolute Hippocracy and this country is becoming a dictatorship which our forefathers must be turning in the graves. all this rubbish of "ahh but you now have more knowledge" could be cast over every single election ever run, as none of them deliver what they say.

Hippocracy

The 1st informed referendum is now slowly getting closer.

The funniest thing about all this is watching people trying to explain another vote as being undemocratic.

Its priceless what levels of crap people will come up with to justify it.

Claret-On-A-T-Rex wrote:Hippocracy

Urban Dictionary: Hippocracy
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... Hippocracy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What Democracy turns into when all of the politicians in your country are Hippos.
How apt.

The equivalent to losing 6-0 at home to Hereford

A people's vote where people wish to change their minds.

ClaretAL wrote:So when the next party that wins the General election, if we dont like the outcome can we have a second go at it because of the ******** we didn't understand, absolute Hippocracy and this country is becoming a dictatorship which our forefathers must be turning in the graves. all this rubbish of "ahh but you now have more knowledge" could be cast over every single election ever run, as none of them deliver what they say.

Yes, we get to go again in 4 or so years.

Also parties can be held accountable for their pledges, the Leave campaign was not a political party and could therefor promise whatever it wanted, often in direct contraindication to itself.

If only the a 2nd remain vote could offer the last two years of our lives back. The public would jump at the chance just for the sheer peace and quiet of going about things as normal.

joey13 wrote:The equivalent to losing 6-0 at home to Hereford

Thank God someone or something else has at least equalled that!

So we're heading for the Orient game?

dougcollins wrote:So we're heading for the Orient game?

No, we crash out of the FA pyramid all together and have to play rugby.

joey13 wrote:The equivalent to losing 6-0 at home to Hereford

True - but I don't recall the Hereford debacle being self-inflicted or widely predicted.

Lancasterclaret wrote:The funniest thing about all this is watching people trying to explain another vote as being undemocratic.

Its priceless what levels of crap people will come up with to justify it.

Its the ignoring of the first one that's undemocratic. We had that vote. Leave won. We should leave. Anything else would be disgraceful.

If there is another vote, as already mentioned, in or out should NOT be part of it. Just deal or no deal.



Anyway, my money is now on not leaving at all. Makes me wonder if this wasn't the plan all along.

Might have been a better result with Teresa May in goal

ClaretAL wrote:So when the next party that wins the General election, if we dont like the outcome can we have a second go at it because of the ******** we didn't understand.

Al, the trick is to kick off about being on the losing side then suggest it is democratic to reverse the decision of the people before it is enacted.

CombatClaret wrote:No, we crash out of the FA pyramid all together and have to play rugby.

A game with far more integrity than the game we currently play... that'll do.

We have got to a point where the remainers now want another go even though over 1 million people swing decided against remain! so the time its taken to get to this 14 year olds are now able to vote on the matter, the same 14 year olds that some corners would point to as lawless and a generation of no respect. But then i get my son coming home with leaflets saying if we leave Europe them article 13 will be exercised where youtube will be banned in the uk etc, obviously pedalled to the youngsters they are trying to pinpoint with pure rubbish, and this is how ludicrous it is becoming.

Someone asked why i point to a dictatorship and my answer is in some countries people have been made to vote again because the original outcome was not what the establishment was expecting. That is what is happening here.

nil_desperandum wrote:Care to explain - coherently - why?
There's absolutely no logic to what you have said, and I think it's impossible to construct an argument that supports this view.

Because when given the opportunity to decide whether you wanted to remain in the EU or wanted to leave it, the majority of those that voted, did so to leave.

The people decided to leave. Logically if we cannot decide how to leave and those individuals who represent us are struggling to come to this conclusion then once again, a further vote seems sensible so they can understand the will of the people.

You cannot go back and re-run the first vote when you haven't even delivered it yet.

Is that coherent enough for you?

We voted. Since then, we've learned and many people have thought, "Why the hell did I vote leave!?" - they would change their mind given the chance.

I'm sort of on the fence. I can totally understand why people want Leave. I can totally understand why people want remain. I get both angles. But things were promised that will never happen. This is why people now (majority) want remain.

Its the ignoring of the first one that's undemocratic. We had that vote. Leave won. We should leave. Anything else would be disgraceful.

If there is another vote, as already mentioned, in or out should NOT be part of it. Just deal or no deal.

Course, I forgot the doozy about "ONE VOTE AND THATS ******* IT, NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO CHANGE THEIR MIND"

Up there with "they need us more than we need them"

I'm listening to Brexiteers saying the same old lies to radio stations because they know people like you don't want to believe anything else.

Frustrating as hell, but the **** up we are heading for will be 100% self inflicted. Desperately sad.

some prick of an MP Grading i think the reporter called him just said, there is no point saying i voted to leave so lets leave even if no deal, when it obvious that we dont want to leave on the them terms so we all have to agree on terms that everyone wants????? LEAVE MEANS LEAVE not leave but in reality we will still let you own us. nod nod wink wink

Good to see people still petrified of a second referendum.

Arrrrrrrrrrrrggggghhhhhhj!!!!

(Sorry, just had to get it off my chest).

FactualFrank wrote:We voted. Since then, we've learned and many people have thought, "Why the hell did I vote leave!?" - they would change their mind given the chance.

I'm sort of on the fence. I can totally understand why people want Leave. I can totally understand why people want remain. I get both angles. But things were promised that will never happen. This is why people now (majority) want remain.

But when the lib dems and conservative joined up together, do you think they should have given those voters an opportunity to decide whether they would have voted lib dem knowing the deal they had to accept to get into power? Im pretty sure if it had been known that university fees were going to end up with what we have now, they wouldn't have voted.

It's politics and it's not perfect but the referendum question posed was quite clear and there should be no confusion about that - Leave or remain.

No - leave but only if my personal views are fully met option.

If we're having just Deal or No Deal votes can it be hosted by Noel Edmomds and revealed via red and blue boxes?

ClaretAL wrote: I get my son coming home with leaflets saying if we leave Europe them article 13 will be exercised where youtube will be banned in the uk etc, obviously pedalled to the youngsters they are trying to pinpoint with pure rubbish, and this is how ludicrous it is becoming.

What?! Ludicrous claims being made, I don't believe it!
Edit: Also please post image of leaflet

ClaretAl..

The leaflet that your son brought home about Youtube..

Who wrote it/ the authors..?

Who is giving it out, who printed it..?

I am guessing it wasn’t teachers or school personnel.