reported that he had doubts about transfer to Cardiff City

see link:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... t-16186389" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This must be quite common feeling amongst footballers.

Is this one of those stupid conspiracy theories? Why is this even considered a story?

Paul Barnes didn’t want to go to Huddersfield

KRBFC wrote:Is this one of those stupid conspiracy theories? Why is this even considered a story?

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but I can't understand why the pilots body was not recovered when Salas was if this was just a tragic accident.

Why would anybody want to go wales to play footie

Petersa wrote:Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but I can't understand why the pilots body was not recovered when Salas was if this was just a tragic accident.

There's a conspiracy theory about this already? Go on, this will be good.

Sadly a lot of these footballers are nothing more than a pawn for these clubs and their agents. I know they are paid well for playing but is is comparable to human trafficking how these South Americans are owned by their agents then peddled around clubs to the highest bidders. The football governing bodies really need to stamp out this kind of 3rd party ownership.

Petersa wrote:Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but I can't understand why the pilots body was not recovered when Salas was if this was just a tragic accident.

You're a conspiracy theorist.

It's extremely rude of the pilot to allow himself to be thrown from or escape the plane during the crash when it would have put your mind at ease if he hadn't.

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Sadly a lot of these footballers are nothing more than a pawn for these clubs and their agents. I know they are paid well for playing but is is comparable to human trafficking how these South Americans are owned by their agents then peddled around clubs to the highest bidders. The football governing bodies really need to stamp out this kind of 3rd party ownership.

Do we know Sala had any "third party" relationship? Cardiff asked that question in February but I'm not aware of it.

thatdberight wrote:Do we know Sala had any "third party" relationship? Cardiff asked that question in February but I'm not aware of it.

Not him in particular but we do know that he had 5 agents working on the deal. All wanting the deal to go through so they could each take their cut of 9 million in agents fees. How can agents tell players to move, it is self serving and they are using players for their own selfish needs. Couple this in with a club who suddenly needed the cash so were also pushing for the deal to go through. In the middle of this was a player who was happy where he was, settled and had a contract for a certain length of time (unsure how long). Because of no fault of his own he was being pushed into a move. If a club gives a contract they should be made to honour that contract. Just because they hit on hard times, that is no fault of the players and if he wanted to stay there should have been no moves made by the club to offload him.

Petersa wrote:Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but I can't understand why the pilots body was not recovered when Salas was if this was just a tragic accident.

Because they couldn't find the pilot's but they could Salas's.

The real story here is all those Cardiff fans wearing "once a bluebird always a bluebird" teeshirts in the game after he died while the club duck and dive to avoid paying 15m.. while thing stinks and cardiff appear to have got away with it.

Petersa wrote:Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but I can't understand why the pilots body was not recovered when Salas was if this was just a tragic accident.

In fairness there’s a theory that on the eve of Cardiff games Colin dresses as Meatloaf and plays Bat out of Hell backwards , then bases his team talk on the “messages “ that he received during the spooky tomfoolery.Conspiracy theory or just a load of old c0ck?

alpo wrote:The real story here is all those Cardiff fans wearing "once a bluebird always a bluebird" teeshirts in the game after he died while the club duck and dive to avoid paying 15m.. while thing stinks and cardiff appear to have got away with it.

If they do end up not paying, it will be because there were problems with the transaction. I'm willing to bet the Cardiff City Finance Director wasn't wearing one of those shirts.

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Not him in particular but we do know that he had 5 agents working on the deal. All wanting the deal to go through so they could each take their cut of 9 million in agents fees. How can agents tell players to move, it is self serving and they are using players for their own selfish needs. Couple this in with a club who suddenly needed the cash so were also pushing for the deal to go through. In the middle of this was a player who was happy where he was, settled and had a contract for a certain length of time (unsure how long). Because of no fault of his own he was being pushed into a move. If a club gives a contract they should be made to honour that contract. Just because they hit on hard times, that is no fault of the players and if he wanted to stay there should have been no moves made by the club to offload him.

If Sala had said to Nantes at the start of his contract, "Pay me less but just make it a rolling six-month deal because it might be important to me to be in control of where I play.", maybe they'd have done that. But he didn't. If you want long contracts and top pay, you've got to accept the club's have an interest in cashing in you. And why do players use agents? Because they think it gets them more money. It's not "everybody else's fault".

thatdberight wrote:If Sala had said to Nantes at the start of his contract, "Pay me less but just make it a rolling six-month deal because it might be important to me to be in control of where I play.", maybe they'd have done that. But he didn't. If you want long contracts and top pay, you've got to accept the club's have an interest in cashing in you. And why do players use agents? Because they think it gets them more money. It's not "everybody else's fault".

Why would he do such a thing when a club are offering him a 3/4 year deal?

Why should you expect a club to cash in on you when they have entered into a contract with you which includes contract length and wages? By offering that to you they are saying we want you for this time frame and are willing to pay you this amount

I was under the impression that a professional footballer has to have an agent

I just find the whole agent thing ludicrous. I mean this summer the likes of Pogba and most of the portuguese players are going to be unable to be sold by the clubs because their agent is banned from doing transfer dealing for 6 months (?). Surely its the clubs that own the players not the agents. All this after said agent has spent the last 12 months putting these players names out there for a move and not just unsettling the players but the clubs they are at.

Quicknick wrote:Because they couldn't find the pilot's but they could Salas's.

I think it's fair to say that had the pilot's body been recovered first, then there would still be a high profile search for Sala.
(The unfortunate pilot may ultimately have contributed to this tragedy, but his family deserve closure, and it is to be hoped that the search continues and his body can be returned to them at some point).

Unfortunately there won't be much of it left now.

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Why would he do such a thing when a club are offering him a 3/4 year deal?

Why should you expect a club to cash in on you when they have entered into a contract with you which includes contract length and wages? By offering that to you they are saying we want you for this time frame and are willing to pay you this amount

I was under the impression that a professional footballer has to have an agent

I'm just saying you can't have it both ways. If you don't want clubs to be looking to move you on, sign a six-month rolling contract. It wouldn't be as lucrative.

thatdberight wrote:I'm just saying you can't have it both ways. If you don't want clubs to be looking to move you on, sign a six-month rolling contract. It wouldn't be as lucrative.

Surely though then players would have no value?

Cleveleys_claret wrote:Surely though then players would have no value?

Exactly. The value they have through the contract justifies some of the high wages.

I'm not familiar with Sala's position - there may be third-party involvement which, as you say, is a different issue altogether.

Emiliano Sala and pilot poisoned by toxic levels of carbon monoxide before plane crash


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... d-18933256" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

claretblue wrote:Emiliano Sala and pilot poisoned by toxic levels of carbon monoxide before plane crash


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football ... d-18933256" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't even know if that might lead to some comfort that he might have been unconscious long before the plane hit the water

Regarding the murky goings - on, the current conspiracy doing the rounds at work is that somehow the Mafia are involved. Seriously, that's how the discussion went.
I suggested maybe it was the Taffia but I'm not sure many of them got it.
Oh, a cancer cure's been found too but as it seems to be Nature's way of culling the human race, those in the know have decided to keep it quiet.
Bonkers.

In my opinion the agent has acted disgracefully but above anything else it is a tragic accident.

Have Cardiff paid their dues yet,disgraceful behaviour not paying you dues.

I was reading an article on this today. It appears that Sala hadn't actually signed a contract with Cardiff. The Premier League initially rejected the transfer due to the payment schedule that had been agreed between the two clubs for the deal and Cardiff say that Sala hadn't signed the revised contract.

aggi wrote:I was reading an article on this today. It appears that Sala hadn't actually signed a contract with Cardiff. The Premier League initially rejected the transfer due to the payment schedule that had been agreed between the two clubs for the deal and Cardiff say that Sala hadn't signed the revised contract.

They would do.. Welsh twohats.

evensteadiereddie wrote:Regarding the murky goings - on, the current conspiracy doing the rounds at work is that somehow the Mafia are involved. Seriously, that's how the discussion went.
I suggested maybe it was the Taffia but I'm not sure many of them got it.
Oh, a cancer cure's been found too but as it seems to be Nature's way of culling the human race, those in the know have decided to keep it quiet.
Bonkers.

Any jobs going?
Sounds like a right laugh there

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:Any jobs going?
Sounds like a right laugh there

I thought Eddie was retired,must have been mistaken and it was a word that sounded like it..

The media bent themselves over backwards trying to imply that the pilot wasn't fit and proper.

Shame on them, not that they have any

aggi wrote:I was reading an article on this today. It appears that Sala hadn't actually signed a contract with Cardiff. The Premier League initially rejected the transfer due to the payment schedule that had been agreed between the two clubs for the deal and Cardiff say that Sala hadn't signed the revised contract.

I doubt that would do any good. When you buy a car, and then crash it, you can't return it on the grounds that you had filled in your insurance documentation wrongly. If the sale contract was OK, I doubt it would be voided by Cardiff's own errors.

Croydon Claret wrote:The media bent themselves over backwards trying to imply that the pilot wasn't fit and proper.

Shame on them, not that they have any

Maybe, but it still doesn’t change the fact that he was not supposed to fly at night with fee paying passengers.

That is a sad fact even more so when a £10 CO sensor in the cabin would have saved their lives.
Not much on top of £15million.

Petersa wrote:Call me a conspiracy theorist if you like but I can't understand why the pilots body was not recovered when Salas was if this was just a tragic accident.

They didn't find him because they couldn't find him. Are you suggesting the two bodies necessarily had to be close to each other in an ocean?

Croydon Claret wrote:The media bent themselves over backwards trying to imply that the pilot wasn't fit and proper.

Shame on them, not that they have any

Not just the media but those in the know too. And my understanding is he was not qualified to make such a flight. That doesn't mean he couldn't have completed it successfully.

The assumption until now was that the conditions - night, weather - plus his lack of experience in those conditions, led to the crash, perhaps by the pilot becoming disorientated. This latest evidence, the CO poisoning, suggests he became disorientated, or even unconscious, but from the effects of the gas. That could happen to any pilot whatever his qualifications or experience.

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close- ... light=sala" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All this adds an extra layer of sadness to the whole wretched tale. Rest in Peace both of theses unfortunate men,

Air Accident Investigation Report:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... Hi_res.pdf

Conclusion:

'23. At the time of the accident, the passenger’s blood had a very high level of COHb, and it was likely that the pilot was also affected to some extent by CO poisoning.
24. Although the level of COHb in the pilot’s blood could not be determined, it was likely that his ability to control the aircraft was impaired during the later stages of the flight, thereby significantly increasing the likelihood that control would be lost.
25. The abrupt pull-up of the aircraft just before it broke up required the control wheel to be pulled aft, and therefore the pilot probably retained some level of function at this time.
26. The most likely reason for CO to have entered the cabin was a failure of the part of the exhaust tailpipe containing the heater muff, which allowed exhaust gas to mix with the ram air and enter the cabin through the cabin conditioning system.

Hipper wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:33 pm

Air Accident Investigation Report:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... Hi_res.pdf

Conclusion:

'23. At the time of the accident, the passenger’s blood had a very high level of COHb, and it was likely that the pilot was also affected to some extent by CO poisoning.
24. Although the level of COHb in the pilot’s blood could not be determined, it was likely that his ability to control the aircraft was impaired during the later stages of the flight, thereby significantly increasing the likelihood that control would be lost.
25. The abrupt pull-up of the aircraft just before it broke up required the control wheel to be pulled aft, and therefore the pilot probably retained some level of function at this time.
26. The most likely reason for CO to have entered the cabin was a failure of the part of the exhaust tailpipe containing the heater muff, which allowed exhaust gas to mix with the ram air and enter the cabin through the cabin conditioning system.

So they were unconscious . incapacitated and it wasnt the conditions per se?

No. The pilot was not thought to be completely unconscious - see point 25.

Overall though it looks the CO was the main cause of the accident and that, and this is my speculation as I didn't see it mentioned in the report, if there had been no CO the pilot would probably have dealt with the prevailing conditions, that is in trying to keep his aircraft out of clouds and in what's called Visual Flight Rules - he could see the ground.

Will this whole sad story end in criminal proceedings i think someone has to pay

I think that blaming one pilot over this whole sorry story is a bit over the top. The people to blame are the companies that employ 'Dodgy' pilots and allow 'Dodgy' aircraft to keep their costs down. This plane and this pilot, along with others had been doing this sort of thing for years. Many footballers had flown on the same arrangements but luckily didn't have a COhb problem that this plane did.

Don't worry though, it's the little guy, not the company who will be the fall guy.

The little Guys presumed dead.. Someone Will face trial at some point.. of that I'm sure.

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:54 am

The little Guys presumed dead.

You think I didn't know that? That's why it's easy to blame him.

Corporate people might be involved at some stage, but it will be a slap on the wrist, nothing more. Even that's doubtful.

Can we not blame the whole sorry story on Warnock and get rid of the prick forver?

When you become a pilot you must accept the responsibility that goes with it. It has always been that way. A pilot decides if the aircraft, weather and general circumstances of the flight match his and the aircraft's ability to achieve it.

Of course it is true that pilots get put under pressure in many ways but they must resist it.

In this case it is clear that the pilot took on a job he was not qualified to do in an aircraft that may also not have been suitable. That doesn't mean he and the aircraft were incapable of achieving the flight's objectives as it seems he'd done these sorts of flights before and it looks like but for the CO problem he may well have succeeded in this case. Had he done so we would know nothing about it. Now the murky world of grey charter flights and overseas registered aircraft is cast in the spotlight and perhaps something positive will come out of it.

Cardif are still failing to come out of this sorry saga with any sense of good light on them - this from The Telegraph

Family of Emiliano Sala launch stinging attack on Cardiff City after revealing trust fund has still not been launched
BEN RUMSBY AUGUST 20, 2020

The family of Emiliano Sala launched a stinging attack on Cardiff City on Thursday night after revealing a £2 million trust fund the club launched in his memory had not been set up almost seven months on.

Sala’s mother, brother and sister accused the Championship side of trying to impose “leonine clauses” on the ‘Emiliano Sala Memorial Trust’ it was announced in January had been jointly created by both parties.

They also claimed Cardiff had withdrawn “with no clear explanation” an earlier offer of a “donation” to the family while they were in the UK in November.

City chairman Mehmet Dalman responded on Thursday night by saying he shared the family’s frustrations, blaming disagreements with their Argentinian lawyers for the impasse over the trust and announcing the club had decided to finish creating it independently of them.

Dalman had announced the long-awaited launch of a trust ahead of Cardiff’s Championship game against Reading, in which they also paid tribute to the £15 million striker, a year on from his tragic death in a plane crash.

In a statement released to Telegraph Sport, Sala’s mother Mercedes Taffarel, and his brother Dario and sister Romina said: “In 2019, Cardiff offered to make a donation to our family, which was very welcome by us as we are in a very difficult economic situation and Emiliano was the main supporter of our family.

“With a great personal effort, in November 2019 we travelled to the UK in order to close the deal with Cardiff to receive the funds as soon as possible. At the time, we had the meeting with the representative of the club, we found that, surprisingly, the offer had been withdrawn with no clear explanation and we would not receive the donation Cardiff had promised.

“This was completely shocking for us as we did not understand why the club was acting in that way with us. We never received an explanation on the reasons why they decided to take the offer back and not fulfil their commitment to us.

“We came back to our country and, in January 2020 we received an offer from Cardiff to set up the trust for the benefit of the family and contribute a certain amount of money.

“It has been almost six months since those initial discussions and, to date, we have not been able to reach an agreement with Cardiff’s representatives to set up the trust. It is extremely difficult to move forward as the club tries to impose leonine clauses and conditions on such donation.”

The family’s Argentinian lawyer, Javier Canosa, told Telegraph Sport that Cardiff were insisting upon controlling the trust, saying: “They have us by the b----.”

He also said the family could no longer afford to pay the UK lawyers representing them at Sala’s inquest, the start of which has been delayed until March.

Dalman said: “We have been working extremely hard for many months to create a trust to support Emiliano’s family and his legacy. We share their frustrations.

“Unfortunately, we’ve been unable to do this jointly with the family’s lawyers due to a number of disagreements, particularly around control of the trust and the extent of the advice required.

“We have therefore decided to finish creating the trust without them, most of the work having already been done. The trust will be confirmed shortly and in addition to our investment, we will invite donations from across the footballing world. The family will then have the resources they need for the inquest.

“The family has too often been forgotten through this tragedy, and too many personal interests have got in the way of providing them the support they deserve.”

David Henderson pleads guilty to flight charge. He was the man who arranged the flight:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-58951342