A recap of that thrilling series when England regained the urn after 18 long years.

I don't know if i'd class it as the greatest series ever,surely 1981 has a better case,when Botham carried all before him.

This was the series when Freddie and KP came of age and cemented their England careers in the memory.

It’s a close call between the 2 series you mention. They were both absolutely brilliant.

In 1981 I was lucky enough to go to one of the days of the test match at Old Trafford...I was only 14 and definitely didn’t realise the magnitude of what I was seeing.
It was the Friday before Botham’s magnificent innings. I still saw some great cricket. I saw Dilley with a great tail ender innings - half century from memory. Really frustrated Aussies. Then England bowled out the Aussies and I think the last hour or so was our openers. I should look it up really but that’s my memory of it.

Thanks - will watch this

The last series for Richie Benaud

tiger76 wrote:A recap of that thrilling series when England regained the urn after 18 long years.

I don't know if i'd class it as the greatest series ever,surely 1981 has a better case,when Botham carried all before him.

This was the series when Freddie and KP came of age and cemented their England careers in the memory.

https://youtu.be/uCNoKQABZEs

I’ve watched this a few times, is it the same one or different tonight?

I remember I’d just finished school and was waiting for my GCSE results, I had the same lunch every day of the test as I thought it was good luck! Very good memories of that summer, one eye on the cricket, the other on MSN trying to organise the weekends parties

TVC15 wrote:It’s a close call between the 2 series you mention. They were both absolutely brilliant.

In 1981 I was lucky enough to go to one of the days of the test match at Old Trafford...I was only 14 and definitely didn’t realise the magnitude of what I was seeing.
It was the Friday before Botham’s magnificent innings. I still saw some great cricket. I saw Dilley with a great tail ender innings - half century from memory. Really frustrated Aussies. Then England bowled out the Aussies and I think the last hour or so was our openers. I should look it up really but that’s my memory of it.

Was about 8 at the time and remember being on holiday in the south and avidly listening on the car radio to commentary of Bob Willis tearing through the Aussies. Recall we were dead and buried after a couple of tests and Brearley resigning.

Wokingclaret wrote:The last series for Richie Benaud

Could only happen in cricket but when Richie’s last spell in the commentary box ended (Oval I think) it was announced to the crowd who gave him a standing ovation.

bfccrazy wrote:https://youtu.be/uCNoKQABZEs

I’ve watched this a few times, is it the same one or different tonight?

I can't say,it's not a repeat on Channel 4,but it could well have been aired previously,i guess this is a curtain-riser to Channel 4's Ashes coverage.

Weird timing really. Should be on in a few weeks.

SandyLaneClaret wrote:Weird timing really. Should be on in a few weeks.

It is Channel 4

Absolute drama, and test cricket at its very best.

NL Claret wrote:Was about 8 at the time and remember being on holiday in the south and avidly listening on the car radio to commentary of Bob Willis tearing through the Aussies. Recall we were dead and buried after a couple of tests and Brearley resigning.

I thought i’d check back at the stats to see how good or bad my memory is - it’s worse than I thought !
It was not Dilley who made the half century - he didn’t play in that test. It was Paul Allott - I knew it was a bowler and I remember him getting a few fours from very fortunate Chinese cuts and Lilley and the rest of their bowlers getting frustrated.
England did bowl out the Aussies that day though.
At the start of the England innings Gooch was out for 5 and it was Boycott and Tavare who had a good but very slow partnership - I remember the last hour or 2 being boring !

NL Claret wrote:Was about 8 at the time and remember being on holiday in the south and avidly listening on the car radio to commentary of Bob Willis tearing through the Aussies. Recall we were dead and buried after a couple of tests and Brearley resigning.

We were dead and buried after a couple of test but Brealey didn't resign, he actually came back and helped turn things round.

I was lucky enough to be at Trent Bridge on the fourth day when we won to go 2-1 up.

Was also at Old Trafford on the second day.

Two brilliant days and incredible atmospheres.

ClaretTony wrote:We were dead and buried after a couple of test but Brealey didn't resign, he actually came back and helped turn things round.

Spot on. It was Botham who resigned and went back to doing what he was best at, once the weight of captaincy had disappeared.
A bad series for the starting skippers with Kim Hughes breaking down in tears and looking very close to a total breakdown after we won the decider.

Quite striking how much mental fragility was in that 2005 team. Harmison, Tresco, Giles, Jones all suffer(ed) especially with depression. It sounds like Vaughan’s mind was scrambled too. Remarkable they pulled it off really. I went to day 5 at old Trafford and the oval to see us bring it home. I look back at that year being my favourite and The Ashes certainly played its part. I remember where I was for every session, never mind each game. That it was following such a long period of Aussie domination was what made it extra special, like when Burnley won at Ewood after 33 years. Compelling stuff, never to be repeated.

Really enjoyed watching it last night

Such a shame, Jones didn't have a longer England career

Tricky Trevor wrote:Spot on. It was Botham who resigned and went back to doing what he was best at, once the weight of captaincy had disappeared.
A bad series for the starting skippers with Kim Hughes breaking down in tears and looking very close to a total breakdown after we won the decider.

The memory isn't what it used to be I knew someone had resigned!

Was a decent watch last night. You forget just how good Simon Jones was. He moved it both ways, very quickly. Massive shame that he suffered with so many injuries.

Did highlight for me though how absolutely pivotal both Pietersen and Flintoff were to us winning it and how they were a good 5-6 years ahead of their time. I'm not sure whether either of them would truly stand out now the way the game has gone. Maybe Pietersen. He was genuinely world class.

We forget just how good Flintoff was too. Like Jones, such a shame he suffered with so many injuries. Fantastic cricketer.

MDWat wrote:Was a decent watch last night. You forget just how good Simon Jones was. He moved it both ways, very quickly. Massive shame that he suffered with so many injuries.

Did highlight for me though how absolutely pivotal both Pietersen and Flintoff were to us winning it and how they were a good 5-6 years ahead of their time. I'm not sure whether either of them would truly stand out now the way the game has gone. Maybe Pietersen. He was genuinely world class.

Big game players will stand out in any side in any generation.

I don't think Flintoff ever achieved his full potential, certainly not with the bat. If you had never seen him and just looked at stats, you would say he was average.

I was lucky enough to play against him at Padiham in a benefit game when he had just started out his England career. He was hitting it over the houses with a kids bat and no effort at all.
His fielding was superb with bucket hands and a bullet arm.
He was the go to bowler when England needed something.

TVC15 wrote:It’s a close call between the 2 series you mention. They were both absolutely brilliant.

In 1981 I was lucky enough to go to one of the days of the test match at Old Trafford...I was only 14 and definitely didn’t realise the magnitude of what I was seeing.
It was the Friday before Botham’s magnificent innings. I still saw some great cricket. I saw Dilley with a great tail ender innings - half century from memory. Really frustrated Aussies. Then England bowled out the Aussies and I think the last hour or so was our openers. I should look it up really but that’s my memory of it.

Ironically, I was there as an eleven year old at Old Trafford on the Sunday when the Aussies batted all day...Sounds like we were both the wrong day either side. I think they had just started to have Sunday as a test day. Remember Emburey trying in vain at the end and the England bowlers getting nowhere all day...

Quickenthetempo wrote:Big game players will stand out in any side in any generation.

I don't think Flintoff ever achieved his full potential, certainly not with the bat. If you had never seen him and just looked at stats, you would say he was average.

I'd agree with you on him in terms of his batting but I do think without the injuries we would have seen that improve considerably. Special player and his bowling at times was terrific even though he himself will admit he had very few tricks up his sleeve.

Wokingclaret wrote:The last series for Richie Benaud

Not a fan of Aussies generally but Richie was an absolute class act. Great memories of his commentary growing up.

ClaretTony wrote:I'd agree with you on him in terms of his batting but I do think without the injuries we would have seen that improve considerably. Special player and his bowling at times was terrific even though he himself will admit he had very few tricks up his sleeve.

He could of been England's best ever player.

He was bordering on being an alcoholic in his playing days and you would have to think if he was starting out today they would get that help he needed. Thankfully he has overcome it in time to enjoy his life as he's now tee total.

Quickenthetempo wrote:He could of been England's best ever player.

He was bordering on being an alcoholic in his playing days and you would have to think if he was starting out today they would get that help he needed. Thankfully he has overcome it in time to enjoy his life as he's now tee total.

I think he could have been, he was special, no doubt about that. I saw the list on the thread of the players with problems and you can certainly add Flintoff to that.

ClaretTony wrote:Really enjoyed watching it last night

Give the one I posted further up a go mate - great watch that is.

TVC15 wrote:I thought i’d check back at the stats to see how good or bad my memory is - it’s worse than I thought !
It was not Dilley who made the half century - he didn’t play in that test. It was Paul Allott - I knew it was a bowler and I remember him getting a few fours from very fortunate Chinese cuts and Lilley and the rest of their bowlers getting frustrated.
England did bowl out the Aussies that day though.
At the start of the England innings Gooch was out for 5 and it was Boycott and Tavare who had a good but very slow partnership - I remember the last hour or 2 being boring !

This got me thinking and ended up doing a Google search on Chris Old, think he scored a few runs in one game in this series.

NL Claret wrote:This got me thinking and ended up doing a Google search on Chris Old, think he scored a few runs in one game in this series.

It was definitely Paul Allott who i saw make the half century - working it all out now and looking at the historical scorecard I was at Old Trafford on the Friday which was the day before Botham`s century.
If Chris Old made some runs like you say that Dilley, Old and Allott who had important tail ender knocks in that series - I'm guessing like in 2005 when you get such an exciting series that this tends to be one of the features. In 2005 I remember it was the Aussie bowlers like Shane Warne and Brett Lee who had some great innings with the bat...especially Warne. Nothing more frustrating for bowlers than to get rid of the opposition top order and best batsmen and then watch their bowlers scoring half centuries or better !!
That Aussies in 2005 were an incredible team who had some of the best cricketers of all time. Ponting, the Waugh brothers, Gilchrist, Warne and not to mention 2 of the best fast bowlers in the last 25 years. Its remarkable that England won that series.

Quickenthetempo wrote:Such a shame, Jones didn't have a longer England career

I assume you mean Simon. Geraint wasn't up to much (IMO).

TVC15 wrote:It was definitely Paul Allott who i saw make the half century - working it all out now and looking at the historical scorecard I was at Old Trafford on the Friday which was the day before Botham`s century.
If Chris Old made some runs like you say that Dilley, Old and Allott who had important tail ender knocks in that series - I'm guessing like in 2005 when you get such an exciting series that this tends to be one of the features. In 2005 I remember it was the Aussie bowlers like Shane Warne and Brett Lee who had some great innings with the bat...especially Warne. Nothing more frustrating for bowlers than to get rid of the opposition top order and best batsmen and then watch their bowlers scoring half centuries or better !!
That Aussies in 2005 were an incredible team who had some of the best cricketers of all time. Ponting, the Waugh brothers, Gilchrist, Warne and not to mention 2 of the best fast bowlers in the last 25 years. Its remarkable that England won that series.

Was definitely Allott as I remember him warming up with IT Botham on the Sunday as if it was yesterday

TVC15 wrote:It’s a close call between the 2 series you mention. They were both absolutely brilliant.

In 1981 I was lucky enough to go to one of the days of the test match at Old Trafford...I was only 14 and definitely didn’t realise the magnitude of what I was seeing.
It was the Friday before Botham’s magnificent innings. I still saw some great cricket. I saw Dilley with a great tail ender innings - half century from memory. Really frustrated Aussies. Then England bowled out the Aussies and I think the last hour or so was our openers. I should look it up really but that’s my memory of it.

I was there on the first day (age 13). My dad had taken the day off work and I was really looking forward to seeing Botham after he’d destroyed the Aussies with the bat a few weeks earlier at Headingly. Botham did have an impact on the match, scoring a quick ton in the second innings setting up an England win. Unfortunately the day I was there I saw England limp to about 180-9 with Allott and Willis hanging on a stumps. I did see Botham bat though, for the grand total of one ball. From memory he nudged at his first ball from Lillee and it dollied up for an easy catch close to the bat.

The most poignant thing that stood out to me was when Giles (I think), towards the end, commented that the '05 team never played together again. You would have never seen that coming at the time.

Who do you think were the better side - England Ashes 2005 or England Ashes 2010/11 in Australia? I'd go for 2010/11 - a much more complete side.

Foulthrow wrote:I assume you mean Simon. Geraint wasn't up to much (IMO).

Yeah definitely Simon the bowler.

Imagine seeing the first 3 bowlers off then he comes on bowling 90plus moving both ways?

That was one of the best summers ever. It was everywhere. People who didn't usually watch cricket were watching cricket. Pubs were getting extra big screens and TV's because everyone in the pubs was watching it. Even the women. I doubt, for me, anything will beat the drama of that summer. But this Ashes might go close to it

Was that the last series on terrestrial tv as well?

WestMidsClaret wrote:That was one of the best summers ever. It was everywhere. People who didn't usually watch cricket were watching cricket. Pubs were getting extra big screens and TV's because everyone in the pubs was watching it. Even the women. I doubt, for me, anything will beat the drama of that summer. But this Ashes might go close to it

Between 7.5 and 15m viewers that series was attracting.

You won't even get half a million watching on Sky. Even though the coverage is superb.

Foulthrow wrote:The most poignant thing that stood out to me was when Giles (I think), towards the end, commented that the '05 team never played together again. You would have never seen that coming at the time.

Who do you think were the better side - England Ashes 2005 or England Ashes 2010/11 in Australia? I'd go for 2010/11 - a much more complete side.

For pure talent and bearing in mind the quality of team they beat it’s got to be the 2005 team for me personally. The Aussie team was incredible at that time and were virtually unbeatable in test cricket

NL Claret wrote:This got me thinking and ended up doing a Google search on Chris Old, think he scored a few runs in one game in this series.

Chris Old was Mrs Tricky's PE Teacher and I worked with his brother, on Teesside.

martin_p wrote:I was there on the first day (age 13). My dad had taken the day off work and I was really looking forward to seeing Botham after he’d destroyed the Aussies with the bat a few weeks earlier at Headingly. Botham did have an impact on the match, scoring a quick ton in the second innings setting up an England win. Unfortunately the day I was there I saw England limp to about 180-9 with Allott and Willis hanging on a stumps. I did see Botham bat though, for the grand total of one ball. From memory he nudged at his first ball from Lillee and it dollied up for an easy catch close to the bat.

So between you, me and TVC we saw the Thursday, Friday and the Sunday. Surely somebody on here must have been on the famous Saturday ffs......

Just checked the scorecard. Chris Tavare used to make Boycott look like a loose player from memory. The Sunday was when Border and Yallop destroyed the bowling and it was looking like they would win tbh.

Iv never been a great cricket fan (sorry) but even me and my friends watched the 2005 ashes and found it thrilling. I was only about 13 but that and the womans final a couple of years ago have been the best two I've seen.

TVC15 wrote: That Aussies in 2005 were an incredible team who had some of the best cricketers of all time. Ponting, the Waugh brothers, Gilchrist, Warne and not to mention 2 of the best fast bowlers in the last 25 years. Its remarkable that England won that series.

They certainly were a great team, but you can't count the Waughs amongst them.
The stand out all time greats were McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist and Ponting, but Hayden wasn't far behind, nor Langer and Lee.

nil_desperandum wrote:They certainly were a great team, but you can't count the Waughs amongst them.
The stand out all time greats were McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist and Ponting, but Hayden wasn't far behind, nor Langer and Lee.

All about opinions of course but the batting career records and averages of the Waugh brothers for test and one day cricket seem to suggest that they are up there in the top 20 or 30 of all time in terms of test and one day international runs.
Steve Waugh is ahead of Hayden in the test match stats and Mark ahead of Langer.
Both of the brothers are ahead of Hayden and Langer in one day stats.
Steve Waugh was also a great captain...he is in the top 5 batsmen ever in terms of test match man of the match awards and is in the top ten for captaining his country in most number of test matches.
Steve Waugh's statistics as a winning captain are ridiculous - they are by a significant margin better than anyone in the history of the game and whilst Ponting has better batting stats Steve Waugh's stats as a captain in terms of games won are 10% higher than Pontings who himself is a long way ahead of all the other captains....though I know both of these records as captain are partly down to the dominance of Australia during these years.

....and both the Waughs were great fielders and also both of them bowled !!

TVC15 wrote:All about opinions of course but the batting career records and averages of the Waugh brothers for test and one day cricket seem to suggest that they are up there in the top 20 or 30 of all time in terms of test and one day international runs.
Steve Waugh is ahead of Hayden in the test match stats and Mark ahead of Langer.
Both of the brothers are ahead of Hayden and Langer in one day stats.
Steve Waugh was also a great captain...he is in the top 5 batsmen ever in terms of test match man of the match awards and is in the top ten for captaining his country in most number of test matches.
Steve Waugh's statistics as a winning captain are ridiculous - they are by a significant margin better than anyone in the history of the game and whilst Ponting has better batting stats Steve Waugh's stats as a captain in terms of games won are 10% higher than Pontings who himself is a long way ahead of all the other captains....though I know both of these records as captain are partly down to the dominance of Australia during these years.

....and both the Waughs were great fielders and also both of them bowled !!

All true, but they'd both retired before the 2005 series, hence my comment.

nil_desperandum wrote:All true, but they'd both retired before the 2005 series, hence my comment.

My memory is getting worse - I knew they both played with a lot of those players mentioned but didn’t realise they both retired before the 2005 series.
I thought you were saying they weren’t of the same quality as the others - sorry !
Guessing Ponting was captain in the 2005 series then eh ? What a player he was. Like Hayden he was also as hard as they come.
Always thought Langer was not as mentally strong as the likes of Waugh, Ponting etc.
Gilchrist was one of those rare players in history who you would just sit there and watch all day long.
Brett Lee in that 2005 series showed that not all Aussies are cheating convicts !! - not only was he a great player but he came across as a great person.

TVC15 wrote:My memory is getting worse - I knew they both played with a lot of those players mentioned but didn’t realise they both retired before the 2005 series.
I thought you were saying they weren’t of the same quality as the others - sorry !
Guessing Ponting was captain in the 2005 series then eh ? What a player he was. Like Hayden he was also as hard as they come.
Always thought Langer was not as mentally strong as the likes of Waugh, Ponting etc.
Gilchrist was one of those rare players in history who you would just sit there and watch all day long.
Brett Lee in that 2005 series showed that not all Aussies are cheating convicts !! - not only was he a great player but he came across as a great person.

Good reply. It was a bit mischievous of me not to mention they'd retired. They were essentially players of the 90s. Mark had been gone about 3 years I think.
Steve retired after the winter series in 2003 / 4 against India, and it's no secret that Warne always thought he should have had the captaincy.
As it turned out they flirted with Gilchrist before settling on Ponting. (As you will recall from the C4 documentary Warne was often scathing of Ponting's captaincy, describing his decision to bowl on a sunny day at Lords (having lost McGrath) as the worst captaincy decision in history!)
I totally agree about Brett Lee. One of my favourite all time Aussies despite his frightening pace. He certainly showed Lillee and one or two others how the game should be played.

nil_desperandum wrote:Good reply. It was a bit mischievous of me not to mention they'd retired. They were essentially players of the 90s. Mark had been gone about 3 years I think.
Steve retired after the winter series in 2003 / 4 against India, and it's no secret that Warne always thought he should have had the captaincy.
As it turned out they flirted with Gilchrist before settling on Ponting. (As you will recall from the C4 documentary Warne was often scathing of Ponting's captaincy, describing his decision to bowl on a sunny day at Lords (having lost McGrath) as the worst captaincy decision in history!)
I totally agree about Brett Lee. One of my favourite all time Aussies despite his frightening pace. He certainly showed Lillee and one or two others how the game should be played.

Warne was bang on about Ponting's decision to bowl first at Lord's,that call totally changed the course of the series,it allowed England a foothold into the contest,and their batsman to find some form.

For all the talk about the game having moved on in the last 10 years,it's worth remembering England piled up 400+ on the 1st day at Lords in only 80 overs.

I'd amazingly forgotten Freddie's over when he made Ponting look like a pub cricketer before finally getting him out.

And i'd also forsaken from my memory how close 3 of the tests were,the matches at Edgbaston,Old Trafford and Trent Bridge will be in the top 10 Ashes tests of all time.

Just looking up the stats,and Warne claimed 40 wickets in the series,easily the highest of any bowler,and yet was still on the losing side.

This series did capture the imagination,i wonder if a lot of that was due to the larger than life characters on both sides,the likes of KP and Freddie Flintoff for England and Warne for the Aussies,those 3 will always be box-office.

If this summer's Ashes can serve up half the drama then cricket fans are in for a treat,sadly many won't be witness to the drama,due to the non-terrestrial TV coverage.

tiger76 wrote: This series did capture the imagination,i wonder if a lot of that was due to the larger than life characters on both sides,the likes of KP and Freddie Flintoff for England and Warne for the Aussies,those 3 will always be box-office.
.

That's all true, but another reason why we remember it so well and fondly is that it was the last occasion that everyone was able to watch live Test Cricket on terrestrial (BBC) tv.
Selling out to SKY etc. may have brought financial benefits to the ECB, etc., but we've lost so much.
(The same will be true I think if we lose the BBC. We won't fully appreciate this until it's gone).