As you might know, I’m a big fan of Charlie Taylor. I was delighted with his development, progress and impact on the team last season.

I was in no doubt yesterday, based on minutes played in pre-season, that Pieters deserved to start and his performance, particularly in the second half (as well as his two assists) has now earnt him the shirt. It’s his to lose.

Now whilst there’s an argument for Brady or more likely, Lennon, to displace McNeil, I think McNeil has the shirt for now but I do wonder about his overall effectiveness in the absence of the more offensive, Taylor. Charlie and Dwight formed quite some partnership down the left side last year and I wonder, whilst Pieters is in the side, whether we’ll see Dwight at his best?

I glad I’m not picking the side: it’s good that we have competition across the whole squad now.

jdrobbo wrote:As you might know, I’m a big fan of Charlie Taylor. I was delighted with his development, progress and impact on the team last season.

I was in no doubt yesterday, based on minutes played in pre-season, that Pieters deserved to start and his performance, particularly in the second half (as well as his two assists) has now earnt him the shirt. It’s his to lose.

Now whilst there’s an argument for Brady or more likely, Lennon, to displace McNeil, I think McNeil has the shirt for now but I do wonder about his overall effectiveness in the absence of the more offensive, Taylor. Charlie and Dwight formed quite some partnership down the left side last year and I wonder, whilst Pieters is in the side, whether we’ll see Dwight at his best?

I glad I’m not picking the side: it’s good that we have competition across the whole squad now.

Cream rises to the top,think Dwight will perform who ever he is in front of.

Pieters did well yesterday but I'd probably have Taylor straight back in when he's ready. I wouldn't be putting Lennon on the left instead of McNeil - if he starts or when he comes on he should be playing on the right.

Dwight was quiet on Saturday but I expect him to come good. I don't think it matters who he plays out wide with. I also expect him to move more centrally anyway at some point.

Great post Robbo but as Rodney said to Trig but paraphrased here "why do you call me O'Neil, my name's not O'Neil it's McNeil"

Like I've said before, and what pretty much everybody ignores - you have to take morale into consideration.

If I were SD I'd have told Pieters that he's starting and it's his chance to shine - but Taylor can't lose his place for being injured. Not after how he played last season.

As I noted yesterday, Pieters tends to play quite narrow, meaning McNeil looked a little isolated in the first half and was very ineffectual. Second half they seemed to develop more of a rapport, but there's no question McNeil's attacks down the left are helped by Taylor offering an overlap and getting close to him.

Charlie Taylor is our future so I'd put him back in when fit again, because he was so good last season he simply doesn't deserve to lose his shirt through no fault of his own. Pieters is very capable though and should be breathing down Charlie's neck, which in turn should keep them both hungry.

McNeil had a couple of moments if magic in tight spaces yesterday.

And Pieters looked equally as attacking as Taylor. But with more quality. Especially that second assist.

He got into shooting positions. And crossing positions.


More importantly he has a ton of passion and experience that can only benefit McNeil.

Well pleased with Pieters even if he seems to have a square head the way the ball seemed to go in any direction other than straight from his bonce

mdd2 wrote:Great post Robbo but as Rodney said to Trig but paraphrased here "why do you call me O'Neil, my name's not O'Neil it's McNeil"

Changed now. No idea what I was doing! Ta

Yes. Let’s all drop someone for creating more goals in one half from a position where we created one goal all last season. That should work well for Eric’s morale...

Dwight can play with anyone.

Charlie’s the future when he’s watched and learnt from Eric how to cross the ball.

Anyone notice how Ashley ran straight to Eric after his second goal mouthing something along the lines of “Ive been waiting a while for a cross like that from the left”. I’ve never seen Ashley (but stand to be corrected) purposely run to the provider before to celebrate as he did for that goal.

To me it won’t matter if it’s Taylor or Pieters, there is no doubting the fact Dwight is going to have to work harder to create opportunities this season due to him no longer being an unknown quantity. Teams know he’s a major outlet/threat of ours and players and teams at this level will adjust accordingly. They will highlight the most effective way to stop him. It will be up to Dwight to show he can outwit them/ continue to threaten consistently.

Yes you can lose your place on the back of being injured. We’ve seen it happen many times. If the person coming in does well enough they keep the shirt. Can’t possibly swap Pieters after 2 assists. As soon as the person coming in has a couple of stinkers they know they’ll lose the shirt.

Hibsclaret wrote:Yes. Let’s all drop someone for creating more goals in one half from a position where we created one goal all last season. That should work well for Eric’s morale...

Dwight can play with anyone.

Charlie’s the future when he’s watched and learnt from Eric how to cross the ball.

Anyone notice how Ashley ran straight to Eric after his second goal mouthing something along the lines of “Ive been waiting a while for a cross like that from the left”. I’ve never seen Ashley (but stand to be corrected) purposely run to the provider before to celebrate as he did for that goal.

It was the first decent cross all afternoon from either side. Everyone looked like they were finding their range

Hibsclaret wrote:Anyone notice how Ashley ran straight to Eric after his second goal mouthing something along the lines of “Ive been waiting a while for a cross like that from the left”. I’ve never seen Ashley (but stand to be corrected) purposely run to the provider before to celebrate as he did for that goal.

Yeah that's exactly what I thought he said too.

Then he patted Pieters on the back mouthing something like "Hibsclaret will be creaming himself on uptheclarets now"

KlyBfc wrote:It was the first decent cross all afternoon from either side. Everyone looked like they were finding their range

I think we were finding our range all season last year...

Peters for sure....without a doubt!

jdrobbo wrote:I was in no doubt yesterday, based on minutes played in pre-season, that Pieters deserved to start

Taylor missed minutes due to an injury. Dyche said it was nothing serious but all the same he didn't play as many minutes as he couldn.

It's also common sense to accept that Pieters was going to play more as Dyche wanted to look at him - see how he mixed with the players in a proper match.

So I really don't see how the minutes he played suggests he deserves to start. The two things just don't correlate at all, sorry.

That cross was superb by the way, but he wasn't closed down and Taylor could have crossed in that position.

I'll be surprised if Taylor loses his place. Very surprised.

Prepare to be surprised then

Hibsclaret wrote:Prepare to be surprised then

I'll prepare myself.

You might as well put a traffic cone on the left rather than Lennon. The reason McNeil gets the rave reviews (quite rightly) is he attacks his man + whips good crosses in. Lennon on very rare occasions last year before he got injured, did the same on the right side. When Sean moved him during the game to the left, he became “Mr Backwards & Sideways” + totally ineffective as an attacking force. We were at that point playing with 10 men.

On yesterday's evidence Pieters is very much a Dyche type of player, and whether he's considered a better footballer than Taylor or not, I can see him being one of the first names on the team sheet if he continues doing as well as he did yesterday and the team continues doing well.
Bad luck for Charlie Taylor to have a niggling injury at this point in time, but I reckon that Dyche knew exactly what he was signing with Pieters, and that he would fit in really well if required.

When Taylor is fully fit he will be back in. Dyche doesnt drop anyone through injury.....lack of form yes. He stated in an interview once a player doesnt lose his shirt because of injury as that is not fair

Cleveleys_claret wrote:When Taylor is fully fit he will be back in. Dyche doesnt drop anyone through injury.....lack of form yes. He stated in an interview once a player doesnt lose his shirt because of injury as that is not fair

Dyche hasn't applied that consistently. I can think of a number of occasions where a player has lost his place due to injury and has had to wait some time to get the shirt back.

Pieters short passing was very wayward at times yesterday and he struggled to form a partnership with McNeil.
But his defensive game means I would keep him in for Arsenal away.

McNeil was quiet but conditions didn't really suit a young skinny winger, especially being double marked.

It allowed JBG to have a good game though.

OP is spot on apart from discounting Pieters attacking ability. I still don’t think Charlie is playing to his Leeds level offensively but is massively improved defensively. Glad I don't have to make the decision but either way I don’t feel we’ll be weaker.
Re:McNeil. Sky comms commented on how slow he was getting back into a LB position, first half, because Pieters was so narrow but what an improvement second half after a talking to. I was especially pleased with him when he got back to head one out for a corner, with a waiting Saint ready for crossing it.

So drop Pieters for Taylor once fit? What message that give to Pieters?
He's just helped keep a clean sheet and provided two assists and you drop him......
No doubt in my mind Taylor has to now fight for his place back

Taylor back in for me.

Pieters did well against a very poor Saints team, let's see how he does over the next month but there is no way you can drop him after yesterday regardless of Charlie Taylor.

We didn't put Ward back in after he regained fitness despite him being superb for a few years, it's not how Dyche works

I see no reason to change a winning team, but I’d be looking at Bardsley for Lowton for the Arsenal game, just for a very solid tackling back four. Take no prisoners.

It may be an unpopular view but i wasn't that impressed with Pieters, as other have said it affected McNeils game not having Taylor bombing on the outside, as for the assists, how the first is given as an assist i'll never know, if you watch the second more closely, he's aiming for Wood but the wind gets hold of it and takes it over his head.

Hibsclaret wrote:Yes. Let’s all drop someone for creating more goals in one half from a position where we created one goal all last season. That should work well for Eric’s morale...

Dwight can play with anyone.

Charlie’s the future when he’s watched and learnt from Eric how to cross the ball.

Anyone notice how Ashley ran straight to Eric after his second goal mouthing something along the lines of “Ive been waiting a while for a cross like that from the left”. I’ve never seen Ashley (but stand to be corrected) purposely run to the provider before to celebrate as he did for that goal.

You're actually embarrassing

I don't quite get the rave reviews of Pieters' performance. He looked like a solid back up option, which is what we signed him for I guess. While he had a perfectly adequate game, I didn't see anything in his performance that showed him to be a better player than Taylor.

His cross for the second goal was good, but I thought his all round game was quite limited and direct, which actually turned out to be pretty useful in those conditions on Saturday. He will certainly do a job for us when called upon.

Personally, I'd have Taylor straight back in the starting XI as soon as he's fit and available.

McNeil didn't have a great game. I don't think the conditions helped but its certainly the case the Pieters hardly ever looked to play the ball short to him even when he was available. He consistently bypassed the midfield to go long with the ball.

AndyClaret wrote: if you watch the second more closely, he's aiming for Wood but the wind gets hold of it and takes it over his head.

Now that’s embarrassing......

Who were we aiming for last season when creating the square root of nothing all season....
One assumes Pieters, who used to play for Stoke where it is notoriously windy, played the conditions (certainly with the first assist) where you take advantage of that type of ball with an up and under as you never know what can happen.
People slating the first half performance need to realise that games like that at the turf often give one team an advantage each half. That was very much the case on Saturday and we had to be dogged and resolute in the first half due to the wind favouring the other team.
As for “he was aiming for Wood” for the second, really.....

Modern day full backs need to be able to cross the ball and occasionally find space for a shot. At least we managed that on Saturday.

Pieters did well and will be a brilliant back-up left back.

Pieters is twice the player Taylor is and I like Taylor. You obviously haven’t seen enough of him if you think Taylor is the better of the two

Not sure based on his reputation at Stoke that Pieters will prove to be an inferior attacking option to Taylor (or necessarily better defensively).

Also not especially sure that McNeil being quiet on Saturday had much to do with Pieters. It looked to me to have more to do with McNeil being slightly off his best (he gave the ball away a few times in circumstances he just wouldn't have last season, once when he got the ball by the corner flag and got his lay off to Pieters completely wrong being a prime example), and being double marked at times.

Teams know what McNeil is generally trying to do on the left, now - he's aiming to go on the outside, get half a yard and deliver a cross. They're focused on stopping it, which presents a different challenge to the lad.

Cleveleys_claret wrote:When Taylor is fully fit he will be back in. Dyche doesnt drop anyone through injury.....lack of form yes. He stated in an interview once a player doesnt lose his shirt because of injury as that is not fair

It took heaton long enough...

Erik was superb two assists for Ash and a very good solid display in defence

I like the way Pieters takes responsibility for his mistakes, if he gives the ball away he hounds whoever's got the ball until he gets it back. There's no way he'll get dropped fr the next game
McNeil and Pieters will take time to gel though

Anyway with two tough away games coming up, Pieter's has done enough to get a run in the side.

jdrobbo wrote:As you might know, I’m a big fan of Charlie Taylor. I was delighted with his development, progress and impact on the team last season.

I was in no doubt yesterday, based on minutes played in pre-season, that Pieters deserved to start and his performance, particularly in the second half (as well as his two assists) has now earnt him the shirt. It’s his to lose.

Now whilst there’s an argument for Brady or more likely, Lennon, to displace McNeil, I think McNeil has the shirt for now but I do wonder about his overall effectiveness in the absence of the more offensive, Taylor. Charlie and Dwight formed quite some partnership down the left side last year and I wonder, whilst Pieters is in the side, whether we’ll see Dwight at his best?

I glad I’m not picking the side: it’s good that we have competition across the whole squad now.

Don't think it had anything to do with Pieters playing, I just thought Dwight had a quiet game.