Antifa violence in Portland

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:28 pm

This looks really bad for the anti-fascists, doesn't it? Terrible behaviour. Right? One of them even had a hammer.

Who, with peaceful intent, would bring a hammer to a protest?

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/11 ... 82785?s=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:50 pm

The police should give both sides more weapons and let them wipe each other out.
The far left and far right are two sides of the same coin

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:54 pm

the antifa mob are more fascist than the people there supposedly attacking...bordering on terrorism

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:03 pm

The video is a lie of course. The people you see "attacking" were peacefully protesting at the side of the bus until the fascists on board opened the doors and started attacking them, including with a hammer.

https://twitter.com/drmistercody/status ... 69504?s=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Almost as if the video was deliberately dishonest edited by a pro-fascist, pro-white supremacy journalists.

The initial video, spread by the pro-fascist journalist, was absolutely hammered all over social media yesterday during the protest. Pun intended. They were really going hard with it to try and get Antifa labelled as terrorists and twist more weak minds into thinking that being anti-fascist is somehow a bad thing.

This is how they manipulate you into not fighting fascism, and in fact how you become defenders of fascism by arguing with people who argue against the fascists.
They attack protesters. Then they edit any videos to make the video look like they're the ones being attacked. And by the time the proof comes out that they instigated the violence it doesn't matter. The lie has been spread, and weak minds have been fixed to hate the people who were actually the victims of violence but had the temerity to defend themselves.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:09 pm

Some info on Andy Ngo: https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... scist.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:12 pm

turtle the antifa mob give genuine antifascists a bad name

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:17 pm

Goalposts wrote:turtle the antifa mob give genuine antifascists a bad name

Like i said. Weak minds are easily twisted.

You believe all the propaganda you want, goalposts. But my anti-fascism is not tarnished by the actions of thugs. If you think it is then that's a problem for you, not me.

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:22 pm

I dont have a problem with your leftist views turtle infact i'd defend your right to have them, but when those purporting to have leftist views use violence as antifa do then i'd oppose them, just as i do when extreme right wingers use violence under the same pretext. both of them have no credibility

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:22 pm

AndrewJB wrote:Some info on Andy Ngo: https://zelo-street.blogspot.com/2019/0 ... scist.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He got milkshaked recently, which is fine, I'm a big fan of milkshaking fascists. But he was also punished in the face, which isn't fine. I felt a little bit sorry for him until he lied about a brain hemorrhage.

He's pretty pathetic. "Journalist" is a very kind title to give him. He's really just a fascist propagandist.

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:29 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Like i said. Weak minds are easily twisted.

You believe all the propaganda you want, goalposts. But my anti-fascism is not tarnished by the actions of thugs. If you think it is then that's a problem for you, not me.

when you refer to weak minds, I have found through life that those so certain of there views, and cannot be moved from their absolute certainty of there beliefs and dogma, possess the weakest minds of all.
despite all there pseudo intellectual spouting's that masks there own inflexibility to be shifted one way or another........

I can think of a number of people that meet that criteria , and a number of them post on here, generally always about the same topic or theme

Wile E Coyote · Post by **Wile E Coyote** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:31 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:This looks really bad for the anti-fascists, doesn't it? Terrible behaviour. Right? One of them even had a hammer. Who, with peaceful intent, would bring a hammer to a protest?

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/11 ... 82785?s=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thor might.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:31 pm

Goalposts wrote:I dont have a problem with your leftist views turtle infact i'd defend your right to have them, but when those purporting to have leftist views use violence as antifa do then i'd oppose them, just as i do when extreme right wingers use violence under the same pretext. both of them have no credibility

Fascism and white supremacy are violent ideologies so i have no problem with people opposed to that ideology defending themselves. I will agree with you if you say you oppose the instigation of violence, but if fascists attack anti-fascists with a hammer and you complain that both sides are being violent because the anti-fascists defended themselves then you're not someone who is going to be taken seriously as an anti-fascist.

There are definitely some anti-fascists who instigate physical violence, but they're rare among anti-fascists and aren't supported (they might not even be anti-fascists). There are definitely some anti-fascists who attend these protests prepared to defend themselves, they're less rare but still a minority, but i've no problem with these people. Being prepared to defend yourself isn't the same as instigating violence. And then there's about 99% of anti-fascists who do things like hold signs, dress up as unicorns or bananas, etc. These are just as much "antifa" as those who are prepared to defend themselves. So when you claim that "antifa" are thuggish, violent, etc then you're the one smearing everyone and you're the one giving every anti-fascist a bad name.

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:50 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Fascism and white supremacy are violent ideologies so i have no problem with people opposed to that ideology defending themselves. I will agree with you if you say you oppose the instigation of violence, but if fascists attack anti-fascists with a hammer and you complain that both sides are being violent because the anti-fascists defended themselves then you're not someone who is going to be taken seriously as an anti-fascist.

There are definitely some anti-fascists who instigate physical violence, but they're rare among anti-fascists and aren't supported (they might not even be anti-fascists). There are definitely some anti-fascists who attend these protests prepared to defend themselves, they're less rare but still a minority, but i've no problem with these people. Being prepared to defend yourself isn't the same as instigating violence. And then there's about 99% of anti-fascists who do things like hold signs, dress up as unicorns lor bananas, etc. These are just as much "antifa" as those who are prepared to defend themselves. So when you claim that "antifa" are thuggish, violent, etc then you're the one smearing everyone and you're the one giving every anti-fascist a bad name.

well if i must i must...the left can be just as violent as the right, no one side is more to blame than the other.
your rarity claim is unsubstantiated i see more violence used by so called left leaning parties such as antifa and anti govt protesters than right wing groups currently. that doesnt mean it will always be the case.

with regards to your defence of going armed, that is very poor.. i wonder why the unicorn and sign protesters don't feel the need to go armed, i also think that those people would be aghast if you associated them with the antifa group as would most people.. you can protest peacefully,

Ive not smeared anyone other than to say that the antifa group are a disgrace, the people there protesting against fascism are many and varied . the Antifa group to me have another agenda, but if you cant see that, thats your issue , and if you vehemently believe that group is a non violent. well thats your , shall we say perception

ClaretSteve · Post by **ClaretSteve** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:52 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Like i said. Weak minds are easily twisted.

You believe all the propaganda you want.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:03 pm

Goalposts wrote:well if i must i must...the left can be just as violent as the right, no one side is more to blame than the other.
your rarity claim is unsubstantiated i see more violence used by so called left leaning parties such as antifa and anti govt protesters than right wing groups currently. that doesnt mean it will always be the case.

with regards to your defence of going armed, that is very poor.. i wonder why the unicorn and sign protesters don't feel the need to go armed, i also think that those people would be aghast if you associated them with the antifa group as would most people.. you can protest peacefully,

Ive not smeared anyone other than to say that the antifa group are a disgrace, the people there protesting against fascism are many and varied . the Antifa group to me have another agenda, but if you cant see that, thats your issue , and if you vehemently believe that group is a non violent. well thats your , shall we say perception

There is no "antifa" group. Antifa isn't an organisation, it's a political position. It is nothing more than an abbreviation. You can't join Antifa, there are no membership requirements except that if you are anti-fascist then you are antifa.
When you talk as if "antifa" is a group or an organisation you expose the fact that you are falling for fascist propaganda, because that's where the idea that they are a group comes from. Maybe you should be a bit more critical about what you assume to be true, otherwise anti-fascists will see that you only ever seem to attack them and draw conclusions that it's because you oppose anti-fascism.

And i didn't say "armed", i said prepared to defend themselves. You don't have to carry weapons to be prepared to defend yourself. And you can protest peacefully while at the same time being ready to defend yourself from attack.

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:33 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:He got milkshaked recently, which is fine, I'm a big fan of milkshaking fascists. But he was also punished in the face, which isn't fine. I felt a little bit sorry for him until he lied about a brain hemorrhage.

He's pretty pathetic. "Journalist" is a very kind title to give him. He's really just a fascist propagandist.

I was interested in this story at the time but haven't followed up on it much since the event. Can you provide the source which provides the proof that Andy Ngo lied about his supposed brain haemorrhage please?

Bosscat · Post by **Bosscat** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:49 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote: He's really just a fascist propagandist.

As opposed to a Lefty Propagandist or a middle ground propagandist ....... or a Brextiteer Propagandist to a Remoaner propagandist

Like some on here he is just a propagandist

Goalposts · Post by **Goalposts** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:53 pm

Antifa if you genuinely believe that it is not organised, a complete made up propaganda tool of the right to cover all groups, has no mantra , symbolism, even ways of dressing or overarching aims or ambition, again thats your view.

your right the propaganda of the right is truly powerful, and blinding me to what i can see with my own eyes, in fact now that i think about it, i bet its right wing extremists infiltrating the peace loving antifa movements to give it a bad name, again your surety of your world view has me in awe. why didnt i see it earlier, these antifa guys are peaceful, those going with weapons are right wing infiltrators , those dressed head to toe in black with masks disguising there faces are not antifa followers but cold and flu sufferers determined to ruin the good name of antifa followers.

phew and i nearly overstepped my right to free speech ..thank you for pointing out to me that my view of the world is wrong and continuing to have these thoughts would see me as a fascist supporter...

if only we could do something about the people that don't see it the way it is Turtle... I wonder if history has anything to teach us...

ps thanks for the re education lesson i will not swerve from the path again

Stayingup · Post by **Stayingup** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:37 pm

Goalposts wrote:when you refer to weak minds, I have found through life that those so certain of there views, and cannot be moved from their absolute certainty of there beliefs and dogma, possess the weakest minds of all.
despite all there pseudo intellectual spouting's that masks there own inflexibility to be shifted one way or another........

I can think of a number of people that meet that criteria , and a number of them post on here, generally always about the same topic or theme

Yes and unfortunately this lack of engaging with other peoples ideas is rife in our universities and public institutions. If you dont agree just shut down the discussuon. There is a cabal on here who post seemingly to please each other in a smug way. Bit the like BBC broadcasting to metropolitan elites. They see only one side of things. Example citing atrocities of what they call the Right or Facism but ignoring the greater atrocities commited by the likes of Stalin.

Damo · Post by **Damo** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:51 pm

Seems a bit strange how the peaceful protesters had tear gas.
Perhaps the OP should try and find a neutral perspective as opposed to the views of the extremists websites he frequents

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:09 pm

4:20 wrote:I was interested in this story at the time but haven't followed up on it much since the event. Can you provide the source which provides the proof that Andy Ngo lied about his supposed brain haemorrhage please?

I cannot provide proof without his medical records, which is something he'll know, but you don't recover from a brain hemorrhage in 24 hours which he appears to have done. The average time off work, according to the NHS, is 3 months. This guy was on TV the next day talking about it.

The guy's a proven liar who lies to paint his fascist friends as innocent victims of the evil anti-fascist. I simply don't find it credible that a milkshake and a punch caused a brain hemorrhage, and if it did it's not credible that he recovered from it so quickly. Maybe if he didn't have a history of lying (demonstrated again yesterday) to make anti-fascists look bad then i'd be more inclined to believe him without question, but, alas, he's full of **** about everything else so i've no reason to doubt that he's full of **** here too.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:18 pm

Goalposts wrote:Antifa if you genuinely believe that it is not organised, a complete made up propaganda tool of the right to cover all groups, has no mantra , symbolism, even ways of dressing or overarching aims or ambition, again thats your view.

You're making this up. I said it's not an organisation. If you have to lie about what someone else says in order to criticise what they've said then you've already lost.

your right the propaganda of the right is truly powerful, and blinding me to what i can see with my own eyes, in fact now that i think about it, i bet its right wing extremists infiltrating the peace loving antifa movements to give it a bad name

actually, yes. That's something they do. https://www.thedailybeast.com/right-win ... ate-antifa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

, again your surety of your world view has me in awe. why didnt i see it earlier, these antifa guys are peaceful, those going with weapons are right wing infiltrators , those dressed head to toe in black with masks disguising there faces are not antifa followers but cold and flu sufferers determined to ruin the good name of antifa followers.

There's nothing wrong with covering your face, if it's for the purpose of avoiding retribution from fascists. We've seen over the past few years that the fascists like to doxx and attack their opponents outside these protests, so covering ones face is perfectly fine with me. Of course i'm sure you know this already, you're just choosing to disregard it because it's inconvenient to your opinion.

And i never even hinted that those going with weapons are right-wing infiltrators. Again, you're completely making that up to criticise me for it. That's a fairly typical pro-fascist tactic of argument.

phew and i nearly overstepped my right to free speech ..thank you for pointing out to me that my view of the world is wrong and continuing to have these thoughts would see me as a fascist supporter...

more pro-fascism. Pretending to care about free speech to attack me for trying to restrict it, which isn't something i've done.

if only we could do something about the people that don't see it the way it is Turtle... I wonder if history has anything to teach us...

ps thanks for the re education lesson i will not swerve from the path again

I was more than willing to have a mature discussion about this with you, but apparently you were not. Come back when you become better at this.

Bfcboyo · Post by **Bfcboyo** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:21 pm

Wile E Coyote wrote:Thor might.

The PNE fan from Clarets Mad?

4:20 · Post by **4:20** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:21 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:I cannot provide proof without his medical records

Thanks, spent 20 minutes googling for it after reading your earlier comment. Complete waste of time.

IanMcL · Post by **IanMcL** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:12 am

For a minute, I thought football hooligans were on the rampage, to stamp out VAR! I know the Footvall Association is loathed but this is a bit extreme.

GodIsADeeJay81 · Post by **GodIsADeeJay81** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:28 am

Bfcboyo wrote:The PNE fan from Clarets Mad?

Men want to be him, women want to be with him....

NottsClaret · Post by **NottsClaret** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:37 am

Facism is one of those words you hear bandied about so much you can lose it's meaning a bit. So I Googled it.

"Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy."

Sounds about right. I'm definitely against that, so I think I'm anti-facist.

Mind you, if you swap 'right' for 'left' in that definition, it's pretty much Soviet Russia from back in the day. I think I'm against that too, so I'm probably anti-communist also.

Looks like I could be one of those cursed centrist dads, which is dreadful of course but I'll still get through my day without throwing bricks at buses, setting off teargas, carrying torches, being a racist or covering my face.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:10 pm

NottsClaret wrote:Facism is one of those words you hear bandied about so much you can lose it's meaning a bit. So I Googled it.

"Fascism is a form of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy."

Sounds about right. I'm definitely against that, so I think I'm anti-facist.

Mind you, if you swap 'right' for 'left' in that definition, it's pretty much Soviet Russia from back in the day. I think I'm against that too, so I'm probably anti-communist also.

Looks like I could be one of those cursed centrist dads, which is dreadful of course but I'll still get through my day without throwing bricks at buses, setting off teargas, carrying torches, being a racist or covering my face.

So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:13 pm

FCBurnley wrote:So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?

Can't happen. Fascists don't allow communists (or anyone else) to stand, communists don't allow fascists (or anyone else) to stand.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:16 pm

dsr wrote:Can't happen. Fascists don't allow communists (or anyone else) to stand, communists don't allow fascists (or anyone else) to stand.

Well according to some views on here it will be happening in 2020 in America

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:39 am

FCBurnley wrote:So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?

Who are the communists that you think are the only alternative to the fascists we both know you're going to continue voting for?

Corky · Post by **Corky** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:04 am

Unless you actually witness these things first hand there is absolutely no point in trying to reach a conclusion as to what has actually happened. Based on bits of social media videos is just not enough information anymore. Clever editing can and does provide such a warped view as we saw from the MOTD coverage of our game with Arsenal to give it a bit of footy analogy.

Lord Rothbury · Post by **Lord Rothbury** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:33 am

Corky wrote:Unless you actually witness these things first hand there is absolutely no point in trying to reach a conclusion as to what has actually happened. Based on bits of social media videos is just not enough information anymore. Clever editing can and does provide such a warped view as we saw from the MOTD coverage of our game with Arsenal to give it a bit of footy analogy.

You may find IT is not interested in an accurate view of these and similar events only one that supports his own agenda.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:20 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Who are the communists that you think are the only alternative to the fascists we both know you're going to continue voting for?

You call Republicans fascist. I call Democrat’s Communists. I disagree with you. You disagree with me. I am not a fascist but will continue to vote Republican until such time as there is a credible alternative

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:11 am

FCBurnley wrote:You call Republicans fascist. I call Democrat’s Communists. I disagree with you. You disagree with me. I am not a fascist but will continue to vote Republican until such time as there is a credible alternative

Trump is a fascist, and he is fully supported by his party. That makes them a fascist party. You support them knowing this, that makes you a fascist.

You can call Democrats communists all you like, but no one with half a brain agrees with you. No one who knows what communism actually is can point to the democrats, knowing what their platform is, and call them communists.

The only reason you're calling Democrats communists is because you know you can't argue that the Republican party has become a pro-fascist party, and this is just how you justify it to yourself and others to keep supporting them because the truth is, you actually like their ideas. Hatred, racism, election theft, white nationalism, xenophobia, christian fundamentalism. All things you're supporting when you vote for them. They truly are the American taliban.

" will continue to vote Republican until such time as there is a credible alternative"

This is hilarious. Democrats want to give people free healthcare and education so you have no choice but to vote for the party who doesn't see non-whites as people.

You might consider yourself a fascist, but you're certainly not anti-fascist or you'd not be supporting them. I don't know anything about your age, but if you have kids or grandkids then i hope when they ask you who you vote for that you lie to them, because it's not nice being ashamed of your parents.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:14 am

Corky wrote:Unless you actually witness these things first hand there is absolutely no point in trying to reach a conclusion as to what has actually happened. Based on bits of social media videos is just not enough information anymore. Clever editing can and does provide such a warped view as we saw from the MOTD coverage of our game with Arsenal to give it a bit of footy analogy.

When one section of people spread a dishonestly edited video and claim that it's the truth, then a longer video emerges that shows that that section of people were lying, then it's perfectly reasonable to call them liars.

To use your analogy, i wasn't at the arsenal game, but i watched it on TV. I watched the longer version of the game before the edited version. If i had watched the edited version first and then the longer version, am i disqualified from having an accurate opinion as to the honesty of the people using the edited version to claim that Arsenal were dominant?

Guller Bull · Post by **Guller Bull** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:55 am

FCBurnley wrote:So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?

Democracy means you also have the choice to abstain from voting which I suggest is probably the right way to go at the moment. It's like choosing which is the least stinky pile of crap. None - exercise your chance to change the way they represent us by clearly saying none of the above.

theroyaldyche · Post by **theroyaldyche** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:03 am

Imploding Turtle wrote:This looks really bad for the anti-fascists, doesn't it? Terrible behaviour. Right? One of them even had a hammer. Who, with peaceful intent, would bring a hammer to a protest?

https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/11 ... 82785?s=20" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Timmy Mallet?

Erasmus · Post by **Erasmus** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:08 am

Some problems with terminology here. Trump seems to have quite strong racist tendencies but that does not make him a fascist. You can be a racist and at the same time be absolutely opposed to fascism, as Winston Churchill demonstrated. I would only class Trump as a fascist if he tried to block the democratic system in the USA, such as it is.

Fascism is a totalitarian ideology that places the strength of the state as its highest aim. The individual citizen's role is to promote the strength of the state. It is in many ways an idealistic form of extreme nationalism. Varying forms of nationalism can be observed today and you might say that these have a tendency towards fascist values, but I don't think many of them have yet reached the stage where they can be said to be 'fascist'.

brexit · Post by **brexit** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:13 am

antifa = ANL
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... %99-tackle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:51 am

Erasmus wrote:Some problems with terminology here. Trump seems to have quite strong racist tendencies but that does not make him a fascist. You can be a racist and at the same time be absolutely opposed to fascism, as Winston Churchill demonstrated. I would only class Trump as a fascist if he tried to block the democratic system in the USA, such as it is.

Fascism is a totalitarian ideology that places the strength of the state as its highest aim. The individual citizen's role is to promote the strength of the state. It is in many ways an idealistic form of extreme nationalism. Varying forms of nationalism can be observed today and you might say that these have a tendency towards fascist values, but I don't think many of them have yet reached the stage where they can be said to be 'fascist'.

Winston Churchill? If you're going to define racist as "everyone in the world who has ever expressed an opinion about foreigners", then it becomes meaningless.

Devils_Advocate · Post by **Devils_Advocate** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:09 pm

dsr wrote:Winston Churchill? If you're going to define racist as "everyone in the world who has ever expressed an opinion about foreigners", then it becomes meaningless.

He didn't do that though, that was just you strawmanning as usual cos you are a fantasist and a charlatan

Elbarad · Post by **Elbarad** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:13 pm

FCBurnley wrote:So if your only options in an election are to vote Fascist or Communist what do you do ?

Well... if you're in the US you thank the founders for the 2nd amendment.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:13 pm

Erasmus wrote: ... I would only class Trump as a fascist if he tried to block the democratic system in the USA, such as it is.

...

That's what the Republican party have been doing for at least the last 10 years, and Trump is helping them.

FCBurnley · Post by **FCBurnley** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:01 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:Trump is a fascist, and he is fully supported by his party. That makes them a fascist party. You support them knowing this, that makes you a fascist.

You can call Democrats communists all you like, but no one with half a brain agrees with you. No one who knows what communism actually is can point to the democrats, knowing what their platform is, and call them communists.

The only reason you're calling Democrats communists is because you know you can't argue that the Republican party has become a pro-fascist party, and this is just how you justify it to yourself and others to keep supporting them because the truth is, you actually like their ideas. Hatred, racism, election theft, white nationalism, xenophobia, christian fundamentalism. All things you're supporting when you vote for them. They truly are the American taliban.

" will continue to vote Republican until such time as there is a credible alternative"

This is hilarious. Democrats want to give people free healthcare and education so you have no choice but to vote for the party who doesn't see non-whites as people.

You might consider yourself a fascist, but you're certainly not anti-fascist or you'd not be supporting them. I don't know anything about your age, but if you have kids or grandkids then i hope when they ask you who you vote for that you lie to them, because it's not nice being ashamed of your parents.

How many people will the The Dems give free Healthcare to ? and how will that be funded ? Same question re Education

Republicans are Americas Taliban

Quote `You might consider yourself a fascist` Where on earth did you dig that one up ?

Finally you revert back to the ageism insults. Oh dear. My age is not something I hide and you are fully aware that I am not a young man yet you claim `I dont know anything about your age` Pathetic.

dsr · Post by **dsr** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:52 pm

Imploding Turtle wrote:They [the Republican party] truly are the American taliban.

You expect to be taken seriously?

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:17 pm

Guller Bull wrote:Democracy means you also have the choice to abstain from voting which I suggest is probably the right way to go at the moment. It's like choosing which is the least stinky pile of crap. None - exercise your chance to change the way they represent us by clearly saying none of the above.

When you're getting down to choices between two extremist parties like that, then the centre has failed. It's what happened before the Second World War, and in the last ten years around the West. So called "centre ground" parties unable to get their heads around reforming a broken system. Before the war those centre ground parties were supporting an economic system that had failed the majority of people. Unemployment was high, and there was little in the way of a welfare state. Both fascism and communism offered a way around this, which is how they became popular. The odious side - curbing of freedom, alienation of "enemies within", negative nationalism - they all count less compared to someone being able to work, put food on the table, and access healthcare. And you can see that after the war, those issues were very quickly dealt with in every Western nation - and the taste for more extreme parties vanished.

The main issues now might be more nuanced, but the centre has failed to fix the problems.

AndrewJB · Post by **AndrewJB** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:23 pm

dsr wrote:You expect to be taken seriously?

I remember seeing it pointed out a long time ago (around 2003) the similarities between the Taliban and the Bush administration. The strong religious conservatism, the disregard of human rights, and the tendency toward armed force rather than diplomacy. And that they existed in a kind of symbiotic relationship, as each bolstered the other's appeal.

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:30 pm

FCBurnley wrote:How many people will the The Dems give free Healthcare to ? and how will that be funded ? Same question re Education

Universal healthcare is cheaper and better than private healthcare. As demonstrated by a libertarian think tank's study into how much it would cost to expand medicare to everyone.

Yes. Religious extremists who hate woman, non-christians, non-whites and democracy.

I think when you include the context of that quote you can clearly figure out that i missed out a word by mistake. I don't think you're too stupid to figure that out, but you're definitely dishonest enough to pretend not to be able to figure that out, which is why you only quoted part of the sentence, and not all of it.

I don't know how old you are. I could have stereotyped the kind of ancient beliefs you hold and assumed you were on the older side, but i didn't do that. Why? Because i don't ******* know how old you are, and i try not to stereotype people. I was literally explaining that what i was saying had absolutely no basis on knowledge of your age and yet you're accusing me of ageism. Dumb ******* snowflake

Imploding Turtle · Post by **Imploding Turtle** » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:30 pm

dsr wrote:You expect to be taken seriously?

Yes. Not by you, but by smart people.