• Japan

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:06 pm**

Yes one of those “Oh look where I am going”

Anyway, anyone been? Looking at the possibility of going next year. Normally book to go somewhere without much knowledge or but feel this might be a bit silly with Japan. Looking at going to Yokohama and probably flying into Tokyo. Looking at 2 weeks with about 4/5 days in each city.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:08 pm**

Dyched wrote:Yes one of those “Oh look where I am going”

Anyway, anyone been? Looking at the possibility of going next year. Normally book to go somewhere without much knowledge or but feel this might be a bit silly with Japan. Looking at going to Yokohama and probably flying into Tokyo. Looking at 2 weeks with about 4/5 days in each city.

Yes. It was brilliant.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:11 pm**

Yes, went about eight years ago with the "Explore" tour company, small group seeing all the expected tourist spots the length of Japan and some off-beat stuff too.
A superb, fascinating country which, at times, makes you feel like you've been transported to a different planet, never mind country. It's completely bonkers but astonishing.
You will love it.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:13 pm**

I went, just pitched up and made it up as I went along. If you're going to get pangs of regret because you didn't do the 5 things you "must do" in Tokyo, that's not for everyone.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:19 pm**

harryharryharry wrote:I went, just pitched up and made it up as I went along. If you're going to get pangs of regret because you didn't do the 5 things you "must do" in Tokyo, that's not for everyone.

This is what I’ve done mostly. Just rocked up and soaked in what places actually are rather than the tourist sights.

How easy is the little stuff eg getting about, eating/drinking?

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:30 pm**

Well, we were generally in a tour group but, when left to our own devices, managed to cope pretty well, the folks we met in bars or restaurants seemed to be a very polite and curious bunch. The Tokyo underground bamboozled us a little, none of the words on any of the boards seem to bear any relation to anywhere we could recognise but commuters almost fought between themselves to help us out.
If you are travelling long-distance, do take the Bullet Train. It's fabulous.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:37 pm**

Dyched wrote:This is what I’ve done mostly. Just rocked up and soaked in what places actually are rather than the tourist sights.

How easy is the little stuff eg getting about, eating/drinking?

Getting about is easy. All the stuff you need is in Roman as well as Kanji. I never went hungry. That thing you see where they have plastic versions of everything in Japanese restaurants, that's true. And helpful. And you can always grab and go at Lawson's.
The people are very helpful although their English is limited. Actually I think they speak more than they let on but I think they don't want to look / sound daft saying "Ing-rish". Although why they feel that way I'm not sure.

I will say this. I was extremely discombobulated after a few days. I'm not Ranulph Fiennes but I've travelled a bit but it's a big culture shock. Someone else warned me but I didn't get it until I was there. It's just very different and if you're alone you might feel it. If I had to do it again, I might spend my first couple of nights outside the metropolis to ease myself in. I took a deep breath and all was good again.

But I can't tell you how brilliant it was.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:45 pm**

evensteadiereddie wrote:Well, we were generally in a tour group but, when left to our own devices, managed to cope pretty well, the folks we met in bars or restaurants seemed to be a very polite and curious bunch. The Tokyo underground bamboozled us a little, none of the words on any of the boards seem to bear any relation to anywhere we could recognise but commuters almost fought between themselves to help us out.
If you are travelling long-distance, do take the Bullet Train. It's fabulous.

The bullet is something I do want to try. Would be hopefully travelling by train to various places. The underground was something I thought might be a problem. Sure it’s pretty simple to get around once I’ve figured it out and got used to it.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:49 pm**

Dyched wrote: The underground was something I thought might be a problem. Sure it’s pretty simple to get around once I’ve figured it out and got used to it.

Yep. You've got it. You'll be fine. And, of course, the bullet trains are a highlight. But so are some of the local and scenic services and as for ekiben...

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:10 pm**

Tokyo & Yokohama around an hour apart by train so easy to be based in Yokohama and day trip to Tokyo.

Sort a JR pass for cheap travel on trains/busses/ferries.

Day trip from Yokohama to Kamakura for temples/Buddha.

Visit Kyoto for philosopher’s walk/golden pavilion and beautiful atmospheric city especially at night.

Hiroshima another great, modern city with a slightly continental feel and riverside cafe/bar culture. Day trip from here to Miyajima for floating tori and hiking with deer and monkeys.

Osaka - great food and nightlife.....

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:23 pm**

I’m sure it’s an interesting culture and country. Are the Japanese people ashamed of how they treated POWs to barbaric torture or don’t they acknowledge this ? I know the government will not offer a full apology. Just interested to know.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:38 pm**

Blackrod wrote:I’m sure it’s an interesting culture and country. Are the Japanese people ashamed of how they treated POWs to barbaric torture or don’t they acknowledge this ? I know the government will not offer a full apology. Just interested to know.

It never came up in conversation. It wasn't top of my agenda to quiz the people I met on that topic.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:43 pm**

Are you taking in the Olympics?

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:47 pm**

harryharryharry wrote:Yep. You've got it. You'll be fine. And, of course, the bullet trains are a highlight. But so are some of the local and scenic services and as for ekiben...

Image on the bottom right looks like a treat.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:50 pm**

Burnleyareback2 wrote:Image on the bottom right looks like a treat.

I have no idea what most of it was like many things I ate there. But it was almost all delicious.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:57 pm**

Blackrod wrote:I’m sure it’s an interesting culture and country. Are the Japanese people ashamed of how they treated POWs to barbaric torture or don’t they acknowledge this ? I know the government will not offer a full apology. Just interested to know.

Posted: **Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:58 pm**

Must admit was top of my list to visit soon. Probably put it off a couple of years now due to a few changes but will read with interest as hope to go in 2 or 3 years.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:54 am**

Dyched wrote:This is what I’ve done mostly. Just rocked up and soaked in what places actually are rather than the tourist sights.

How easy is the little stuff eg getting about, eating/drinking?

I've been a few times with work. It's an amazing place, definitely worth a visit.

I'd do some planning. Consider the logistics of the cities you want to be in, have a think about what you want to do as, due to the limited English, it's not necessarily easy to just sort stuff out on the fly.

Getting around was pretty straightforward in terms of the subway (in Osaka and Tokyo at least) as everything is also in Roman alphabet/numbered. Some trains were a bit more of a challenge with stations, etc all in kanji.

Finding specific addresses can be a challenge. There aren't really street names or numbers. When I was there the general method of finding somewhere was to ask a policeman which didn't really work if you didn't speak Japanese. This was before phones with maps and GPS became so common though.

Food is fine if you're adventurous. Lots of the local places are pretty cheap so if you end up with stuff you don't like it's not a huge loss. At times I just picked dishes on the basis of the price being about right for a main course. If you want English menus and English speaking staff you'll pay a premium and miss out on some of the best places.

It can be exhausting though. It is such a different culture and the language so different that it does feel very foreign and lots of small things can be quite an effort.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:20 am**

Agree about the planning. I don’t normally on holiday, but it’s a huge country on the other side of the world with a million things to see. You don’t want to miss out, which you will if you don’t have a plan.

Definitely get a JR pass, the trains are as you’d imagine. You can go to Nagano or even Kyoto and be back the same day on a bullet train.

As above, they don’t speak much English but it’s easily the most friendly, polite, helpful and safest country we’ve been to. The only downside to going is you’ll end up as a Japan obsessed bore, just waiting for an opportunity like this to tell everyone how amazing it is.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:40 am**

Blackrod wrote:I’m sure it’s an interesting culture and country. Are the Japanese people ashamed of how they treated POWs to barbaric torture or don’t they acknowledge this ? I know the government will not offer a full apology. Just interested to know.

I Know you probably mean well, but you've had a 75 year window for this. I think we already get the point.
Stay on topic.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:50 am**

Blackrod wrote:I’m sure it’s an interesting culture and country. Are the Japanese people ashamed of how they treated POWs to barbaric torture or don’t they acknowledge this ? I know the government will not offer a full apology. Just interested to know.

Imagine how hard it would be for us Brits abroad if everyone stopped and asked us about how we'd treated their country/relatives/natural resources

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:45 am**

Went last year for a couple of weeks.

When in Tokyo, it’s well worth trying to visit a Sumo Stable to watch them train. You have to book well in advance but it’s an amazing experience. As far as I could make out, it’s not some contrived tourist experience; no phones and you have to sit on the floor in silence for 2 hours while you observe.

Kyoto, as above, is also well worth a few days.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:36 am**

CharlieinNewMexico wrote:I Know you probably mean well, but you've had a 75 year window for this. I think we already get the point.
Stay on topic.

The thread title is just ‘Japan’. I would suggest that is fairly broad and my post is about Japan. Also I haven’t had that long a window as I wasn’t alive 75 years ago.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:40 am**

Lancasterclaret wrote:Imagine how hard it would be for us Brits abroad if everyone stopped and asked us about how we'd treated their country/relatives/natural resources

When and what specifically ? Extracting Iron Ore is hardly the equivalent of killing wounded on a death march. I understand the point if we are looking at events hundreds of years ago but there are still families alive ( I know some) who have been impacted by their family being mistreated.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:54 am**

Blackrod wrote:When and what specifically ? Extracting Iron Ore is hardly the equivalent of killing wounded on a death march. I understand the point if we are looking at events hundreds of years ago but there are still families alive ( I know some) who have been impacted by their family being mistreated.

****. I'm not great on the values of "Empire Death Bingo"

Is a Death March the equivalent of engineered famines in India, causing millions of deaths?

Is the treatment of Allied POWs less or better than our treatment of Boer women and children in internment camps, resulted in thousands of deaths?

Point I'm making is that we are haven't got a leg to stand on when it comes to stuff like this.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:00 am**

We've had a few threads on Japan, every time we get contributions from people who've been lucky enough to visit, enthusing about it and offering advice on where to go or what to do.

And every time you get one or two weirdos, pretending to give a s**t about a grudge their ancestors may or may not have held against some people who've long since lived and died on the other side of the world. Get out from behind your keyboard, book some tickets and go and see an amazing country and mingle with some amazing, friendly people.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:10 am**

Lancasterclaret wrote:****. I'm not great on the values of "Empire Death Bingo"

Is a Death March the equivalent of engineered famines in India, causing millions of deaths?

Is the treatment of Allied POWs less or better than our treatment of Boer women and children in internment camps, resulted in thousands of deaths?

Point I'm making is that we are haven't got a leg to stand on when it comes to stuff like this.

I agree that some of our history is shameful. However the Boer War was 1899 to 1902 and is less likely to have had an impact on families still alive today. In a climate where we are apologising for absolutely everything and the Japanese Government won’t I wondered what the view of the Japanese public was. Ie how is it dealt with and what do they learn in schools and so on. I know how the Germans deal with this subject and I tho k they do this very well.

As for the later post it’s hardly being weird looking at the history of a country and it’s stance on certain subjects when looking at the overall culture.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:18 am**

Blackrod wrote:I agree that some of our history is shameful. However the Boer War was 1899 to 1902 and is less likely to have had an impact on families still alive today. In a climate where we are apologising for absolutely everything and the Japanese Government won’t I wondered what the view of the Japanese public was. Ie how is it dealt with and what do they learn in schools and so on. I know how the Germans deal with this subject and I tho k they do this very well.

As for the later post it’s hardly being weird looking at the history of a country and it’s stance on certain subjects when looking at the overall culture.

I went on holiday with my wife to the west of Ireland about a decade ago.

We went for lunch in a pub which had a Lee Enfield rifle hung up in the wall, with a placard that about how it had been used by the IRA in the struggle against the British.

Guess what we didn't talk about, and guess what I was polite and sensible enough not to ask about?

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:59 pm**

Dyched wrote:Yes one of those “Oh look where I am going”

Anyway, anyone been? Looking at the possibility of going next year. Normally book to go somewhere without much knowledge or but feel this might be a bit silly with Japan. Looking at going to Yokohama and probably flying into Tokyo. Looking at 2 weeks with about 4/5 days in each city.

I went in September, really enjoyed it. Managed to get around a bit because we were following the egg chasing. Internal flights are cheap and the airports are fuss free. Get a JR railcard, you'll save a fortune. Also consider hiring some wifi from the airport, roaming charges are mad and you will definitely need google maps.
I'd swerve Yokohama, it's a day trip at best. Go to Sapporo on the north Island instead or if you don't want to bother with internal flights, got to Kobe or Kyoto (you can visit either of these whilst staying in the other).
We flew SAS via Copenhagen (2hr lay over) as there's no direct flights from Manchester.
Whilst in Tokyo we stopped in Shinagawa, it was a perfect base as the train station is a huge hub for pretty much everywhere.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:08 pm**

Lancasterclaret wrote:I went on holiday with my wife to the west of Ireland about a decade ago.

We went for lunch in a pub which had a Lee Enfield rifle hung up in the wall, with a placard that about how it had been used by the IRA in the struggle against the British.

Guess what we didn't talk about, and guess what I was polite and sensible enough not to ask about?

Well I was going to refer to our treatment of the Irish to highlight the ‘shameful’ history. I think most of us who have looked into this would hold their hands up and acknowledge this.

I was asking if it was acknowledged and how rather than you must approach everyone person and raise it as a first topic of conversation.

I get your point. I’m sure you get mine. Whilst I don’t have the answer to my original question I will let it be.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:23 pm**

I have a hunch that Japan isn't for you, Blackrod.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:45 pm**

Another who'd recommend the trip. Great country, great people, great landscape, culture(s) and food. It isn't all about the big cities and the bright lights; if you go to Japan and don't do old, rural japan, you're doing yourself a disservice.

Kyoto is a wonderful place in its own right, but it's also a great base for day trips to Osaka, Naha (the ancient capital; well worth a day), Kobe and others. Hiroshima is a wonderfully rebuilt city, with wonderfully sympathic and moving nods to the atomic bomb and the war (to answer the above question - they generally have an awkward relationship with the war years - neither denying the mistakes of their forefathers, or apologising for them openly; not that I'd suggest they should; I find myself agreeing with Lancaster Claret on this one).

To add to the recommendations - we had a great couple of days out West in the off-the-beaten track city of Kanazawa, and in the mountains where the pretty town of Takayama is a beautiful slice of traditional japan, and the traditional thatched villages of the mountains like Shirakawa-Go for possibly the most classically Japanese experience you could have (in an absolutely stunning alpine setting).

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:54 pm**

Billy Balfour wrote:I have a hunch that Japan isn't for you, Blackrod.

I've never been, but its on the list. I reckon both me and blackrod would love it though.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:00 pm**

Godwin's law in action this thread.

The original post was about recommendations for Japan. Why can't people keep their political views out of it, if they have nothing else to contribute?

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:10 pm**

Thanks a bunch everybody!! Hiroshima is possibly on the list too. I’m sure our very own will have tons of info aboit it for me!! Yokohama is a must for wanting to photograph (Japanese motorcycle culture, some of the best example of pre ww2 harleys in Japan)

Would love to stop at a random small town somewhere (Something I’ve done a few times over in the US whilst on long train journeys) I actually met an old (70ish) Japanese chap on the train over there. We were in contact where he’d send be pictures of his home town in Japan. But unfortunately I can’t get back into my old email account.

I’ll keep and eye on this thread and research places recommended and will bump time to time!!

Thanks again!!!!

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:04 pm**

I lived in Tokyo for over 3 years in the early 90s. Some things are cheaper now than then. However, prices vary widely for basically the same stuff in different izakayas {bar/eateries}. It's possible to do this reasonably cheaply. Accommodation isn't expensive, nor are the izakayas if you select the right ones.

I am going over next November for the first time since I left.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:17 pm**

Dyched wrote: Would love to stop at a random small town somewhere...

I went to Matsue on the northwest coast of Honshu. I was not the only tourist there I'm sure. But I didn't see any others. I'm not recommending it specifically- that would defeat the object - but that was among my favourite couple of days so yes, I agree. Get out to some of the rest of Japan. I only nibbled at the edges but Matsue, Kagoshima, Hiroshima, Matsushima and Hirosaki will live long in my memory. I'm not a fan of megacities so much and actually didn't really get Kyoto. That may be fair or not - my "don't plan it to death" approach risks that; I rolled into Nagano, settled in my room and started to plan the next day... found things were further away than I thought... got that scrap of paper out of my bag... realised I'd meant to stay in Nagoya but bad handwriting had taken me to Nagano

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:45 pm**

I went to Kyoto in ‘99. Great place, lots to see and do. Stay in a traditional style hostel, for a real experience. Rent bicycles to get around. Everyone rides there - super safe. Kyoto is history and Japanese culture (food - have a traditional coffee made like a science experiment, the best sushi (as of 20 years ago), and Japanese battered food (tempura), was brought there by Portuguese sailors, so is a sister food to our fish and chips. Also one of the oldest bath houses, with graffiti from the late 19 th century.

There’s lots to see in two weeks, but Kyoto is a must see.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:11 pm**

I would like to see Japan. I asked a question which Claretspice has sort of answered.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:04 pm**

Dyched I've lived between Yokohama and Tokyo a good while. If you need any help/tips etc give me a shout.

And give me a bit more info - what time of year, how many people etc

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:13 pm**

They are a very polite people but not good to have them on the other side, in a war!

I remember, as a young man, there were regular stories of Japanese soldiers still in the jungle, 'to avoid capture'. No one told them it was all over!

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:24 pm**

Taking Islands In Africa,
Swing,
Night Porter
Ghosts.

Essential Japan

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:36 pm**

Dyched wrote:Yes one of those “Oh look where I am going”

Anyway, anyone been? Looking at the possibility of going next year. Normally book to go somewhere without much knowledge or but feel this might be a bit silly with Japan. Looking at going to Yokohama and probably flying into Tokyo. Looking at 2 weeks with about 4/5 days in each city.

Hi Dyched,

I was in Japan last year with my wife and we did about 3 weeks. I would firstly recommend investing in some rail passes. The trains are excellent and a great way to travel. Also getting a Japanese SIM card when you arrive for your phone is really essential. Will help with directions as I would also recommend doing your research and ‘pin’ things into your phone before you go.

Tokyo is amazing, but so big and vast that planning is essential. If you are a coffee drinker, that’s a great way to explore different parts of the city every morning. No doubt you will have an idea of what you want to see, so I won’t brandish too much on you.

I would also recommend Kyoto for a trip, it’s an amazing modern city, but venture out a suburb and surrounded by temples everywhere. Again, I would recommend picking and choosing cos it would be easy to get templed out- 1 or 2 a day is plenty.

Osaka is nice, but we only really used it as a base for exploring day trips to Nara (city that has deer walking all around it) Hiroshima (amazing) and Fukuoka for a sumo tournament that we were lucky enough to sync in with. I think there are only about 6/8 tournaments a year, which go on for a week or so, but I would recommend a day for that if you get the chance.

We also went to some smaller places, Takayama, which is a mountain alpine town, beautiful and quiet, and also the city of Kanazawa on the coast. The region of hakone is spitting distance to Tokyo too (couple hours by train) and is a beautiful national park with views of Mount Fuji, if you are looking for some R& R time.

Gotta say, there wasn’t a place we didn’t enjoy though and will hopefully go back in the future as there is so much more to be seen. A fascinating and beautiful country.

Posted: **Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:00 pm**

Classic Blackrod. Pig ignorant.

Posted: **Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:47 am**

I’m lucky enough to have been to Japan 3 times, and it’s still on my list to return to.the first time was in 1989 when it really was a culture shock. Back then there was very little western influences. Despite US forces being stationed there for 40 years they didn’t really mix beyond a small area of their base. Disney has only been open a few years and wasn’t a draw for foreign tourists. Nothing was written in Roman everything was kanji and kana. I was given instructions on getting to the train from Narita by distances and descriptions. You were stopped everywhere by the locals to have a picture taken with them. Luckily I had a local guide for some of the time so I picked up how to do things and also an insight into the culture.

Their approach of ceremony, protocol and rigid structure defines and constricts a lot of their activities, the dichotomy between innovation and tradition is very strange. It seemed to be a society just waiting to break free but being held back by it’s structure. When collectively some area to change is found that change is breakneck and profound. In answer to blackrods question I was offered that as a justification for their wartime actions. The majority of Japanese wars had been internal affairs between clans. They didn’t have a colonial history like ours. They were barely involved in WWI, so they behaved like they always had done. Fierce, loyal, proud, all great qualities until they are seen combined with cruelty in warfare. One thing for sure is that the Japanese people acknowledge the mistakes around WWII, and are truly one of the friendliest people you can meet. You’ll only find out by going there.

My other 2 trips were in the early 2000’s and I met up with a Tokyo local who had worked for me in the UK before moving back home. I saw all the tourist sights as they had become. One of the best things I did was going out to Hakone, looking at the prayer gates, Fuji looming large and seeing some view of rural life in the country.

A final point, if Blackrod, and others who have an issue about recent impacts on still living people from the mid 20th Century wars they would find a far greater source of injustice and it would be great if they were as vocal about the ex service people damaged by our own Government’s Nuclear testing program. Still no apology or compensation for 1000’s of impacted families from the UK Government unlike the US and Australia.

Posted: **Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:18 am**

Rileybobs wrote:Classic Blackrod. Pig ignorant.

I asked a question to do with Japan. Clearly not a subject you can stomach.

Classic Rileybobs : sandal wearing libtard white flag waving surrender monkey with followers of the same ilk in tow. Ironically what the Japanese historically would not have tolerated.

Posted: **Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:53 am**

Blackrod wrote:I asked a question to do with Japan. Clearly not a subject you can stomach.

Classic Rileybobs : sandal wearing libtard white flag waving surrender monkey with followers of the same ilk in tow. Ironically what the Japanese historically would not have tolerated.

He's reacting to your post to be fair.

You can't live like its 1943 in 2019, its just not healthy.

Far too many of us in this country take our great sacrifices made by our grandparents between 1939-45 and use them to make completely inappropriate comparisons and judgements.

Thats what you did.

Was Japan a total **** during the war?

Yes

Has it done enough to acknowledge it?

Probably not (but our pain and loss is nothing compared to those of Korea and China btw)

Does that mean we can keep banging their heads in about it in 2019?

No

Posted: **Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:58 am**

And to be fair to them, in WWII they did build some of the most beautiful ships

IJN Tone and IJN Haguro

: 667c755eb41b4248c59dcf3d82b53f83.jpg (9.14 KiB) Viewed 2887 times

Posted: **Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:21 am**

I don't like whaling.

Posted: **Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:31 am**

Don't do it then.

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