With all the news about china it reminded me of tank man or unknown rebel as he was nicknamed, he was the man who stood in front of the tank in Tiananmen square with nothing but two bags of shopping.
I like to think I am good on my principles but could I do that, nope!!

Back end of the pantomine horse King George's Hall Blackburn.

The footage of the Scottish pipers landing on the beaches on d-Day will take some beating.

Watching the Isis guys fly those planes into the twin towers. I know people like to frame courage as something that is morally right but it didnt half take some balls to do what they did even if it was for an horrific cause

Devils_Advocate wrote:Watching the Isis guys fly those planes into the twin towers. I know people like to frame courage as something that is morally right but it didnt half take some balls to do what they did even if it was for an horrific cause

Saddam Hussain faced his Death with a Lot more Balls than Bush or Bliar ever would.

There was a 13yr old girl on the news tonight that protected her 18 month old niece/nephew from machete wielding attackers in their home.
She got some bad injuries in the attack.

Ben Mee at Reading.

Devils_Advocate wrote:Watching the Isis guys fly those planes into the twin towers. I know people like to frame courage as something that is morally right but it didnt half take some balls to do what they did even if it was for an horrific cause

Nah they only did it cos of the endless paedophilia on offer in the afterlife.

tarkys_ears wrote:Nah they only did it cos of the endless paedophilia on offer in the afterlife.

Better keep Prince Andrew well away from the cockpit next time he's flying

Prince Andrew disobeying direct orders to fly in pitch darkness to rescue a squad of trapped men in his helicopter in the Falklands Conflict under heavy fire.
A selfless action of unprecedented bravery that left him unable to sweat.

i once saw a 5'7'' frenchman take on about ten of my young friends in a brawl single handed and stood up to it.

easily the hardest man i've ever seen.

Devils_Advocate wrote:Watching the Isis guys fly those planes into the twin towers. I know people like to frame courage as something that is morally right but it didnt half take some balls to do what they did even if it was for an horrific cause

That's not bravery, it's blind faith in some sky fairy by some some brainwashed, mindless morons.

If one footballer ever epitomised the meaning of bravery, that player was Peter 'Uwe' Noble.

Royboyclaret wrote:If one footballer ever epitomised the meaning of bravery, that player was Peter 'Uwe' Noble.

And Terry Butcher?

There is only one definition of total bravery for me and that is putting your own life on the line to help others. Sadly some of these brave souls don’t survive and that is on another level.

Re: the twin towers. There are thousands of people who have committed suicide for a cause. They are all mentally deranged to even contemplate it. They need sympathy, not glorifying.

Devils_Advocate wrote:Watching the Isis guys fly those planes into the twin towers. I know people like to frame courage as something that is morally right but it didnt half take some balls to do what they did even if it was for an horrific cause

Not if you are 100% brainwashed or believe a better existence awaits. The suicidal bombers ect are convinced enough to do it, it's nothing to them with that fixated mindset.

Don’t come much braver than the firefighters climbing the stairs in the twin towers as everyone else was going down.

LoveCurryPies wrote:Don’t come much braver than the firefighters climbing the stairs in the twin towers as everyone else was going down.

very true curry, more so because they weren't acting instinctively , they had time to realise how catastrophic it could be, and still entered the stairwells.

We all probably have a relative who fought in the World Wars and aged 19 or 20. I simply can’t imagine how frightening that would be.

I do know someone who served in Afghanistan and returned with ptsd but sadly his daughter, having witnesses the change in her father, also needed help.

My two children watching their mum (my ex wife) at the age of just 50 battle cancer for six months then losing that battle in June of this year.

Especially my 17 year old daughter going through all that and at the same time studying for her A levels working part time and trying to pass her driving test so she can commute to Preston university next year to study for a nursing degree and follow in her mum's footsteps.

Bravest, hardest and proudest I've seen and felt.

ClaretMov wrote:My two children watching their mum (my ex wife) at the age of just 50 battle cancer for six months then losing that battle in June of this year.

Especially my 17 year old daughter going through all that and at the same time studying for her A levels working part time and trying to pass her driving test so she can commute to Preston university next year to study for a nursing degree and follow in her mum's footsteps.

Bravest, hardest and proudest I've seen and felt.

jesus !! that is tough, very, very brave indeed.

Devils_Advocate wrote:Watching the Isis guys fly those planes into the twin towers. I know people like to frame courage as something that is morally right but it didnt half take some balls to do what they did even if it was for an horrific cause

********!

I've been watching the Hong Kong protests and the protesters and police are incredibly mismatched. They've been going up against riot police with tear gas, armoured cars and water cannons protected mainly by umbrellas. You'll see them pushed back by tear gas or the water cannon and then five minutes later they'll be back again. I've had a few whiffs of tear gas and it isn't something I'd willingly keep exposing myself to.

Didn’t see it but have read about it “Titus Oates”
That was bravery to try and save others
Plus all the guys who fought for us in both World Wars

aggi wrote:I've been watching the Hong Kong protests and the protesters and police are incredibly mismatched. They've been going up against riot police with tear gas, armoured cars and water cannons protected mainly by umbrellas. You'll see them pushed back by tear gas or the water cannon and then five minutes later they'll be back again. I've had a few whiffs of tear gas and it isn't something I'd willingly keep exposing myself to.

That sound more like stupidity than bravery.

Jakubclaret wrote:That sound more like stupidity than bravery.

Lots of people in the world don't enjoy the freedoms that you take for granted Jakub. Never forget that.

Bravest thing I've ever seen?

People born in the 1950s going on about how tough it was in World War II because they only saw a banana when they were four.

Now that is bravery I just can't comprehend.

And Lancaster in addition to that as it is my generation, not getting bananas as it wasn’t the season for them as only had them at certain times of the year
Also I think this correct most bananas landed in UK via the docks in Barry South Wales

Jakubclaret wrote:That sound more like stupidity than bravery.

I'd say there's often a fine line between the two. Given the fatality rates in the trenches then going over the top and charging a machine gun nest was stupid but undoubtedly also brave.

These protesters were trying to occupy the police so that other protesters could escape from the university where they were surrounded by police. I'd say that's pretty brave.

Lancasterclaret wrote:Lots of people in the world don't enjoy the freedoms that you take for granted Jakub. Never forget that.

Bravest thing I've ever seen?

People born in the 1950s going on about how tough it was in World War II because they only saw a banana when they were four.

Now that is bravery I just can't comprehend.

True I can't disagree with that, but people having restricted freedom doesn't affect me personally, in no shape or form will my position in everyday life be significantly altered. It's better to accept it is what it is & quite frankly don't give a s**t.

Jakubclaret wrote:True I can't disagree with that, but people having restricted freedom doesn't affect me personally, in no shape or form will my position in everyday life be significantly altered. It's better to accept it is what it is & quite frankly don't give a s**t.

No offence Jakub, but that complacency is asking for trouble.

Whoever is in charge, never forget that they would like more control over what you do and how you do it.

ClaretMov wrote:My two children watching their mum (my ex wife) at the age of just 50 battle cancer for six months then losing that battle in June of this year.

Especially my 17 year old daughter going through all that and at the same time studying for her A levels working part time and trying to pass her driving test so she can commute to Preston university next year to study for a nursing degree and follow in her mum's footsteps.

Bravest, hardest and proudest I've seen and felt.

Top post mate.

Lancasterclaret wrote:No offence Jakub, but that complacency is asking for trouble.

Whoever is in charge, never forget that they would like more control over what you do and how you do it.

That's just my own personal perspective outlook on life, I don't really care it's better to take control of situations you can change & than somewhere thousands of miles away with a different way of life, people meddle & get involved too much & make situations worse, it's easier to step back & just let them get on with their way of life.

Jakubclaret wrote:That's just my own personal perspective outlook on life, I don't really care it's better to take control of situations you can change & than somewhere thousands of miles away with a different way of life, people meddle & get involved too much & make situations worse, it's easier to step back & just let them get on with their way of life.

Good job we never had that attitude in 1939 isn't it?

Lancasterclaret wrote:Good job we never had that attitude in 1939 isn't it?

Completely different to a madman wanting to conquer Europe & maybe the world than a handful of p*ss*d off students in Hong Kong, don't you think!

The guy in Hacksaw ridge.

I know the Amerocans dramatise films to death but it's a true story of a guy who got bullied in Army training as he wouldnt carry a gun, he wanted to be a medic in the war.

He stayed on top of the ridge lowering casualties down on his own after the Americans had been forced back down again. 75 people he got down in the dark and in enemy territory.

The film based on a true story

Jakubclaret wrote:Completely different to a madman wanting to conquer Europe & maybe the world than a handful of p*ss*d off students in Hong Kong, don't you think!

Point is that you have to draw the line somewhere in every situation.

This one isn't great for the UK, and it shows that when we pulled out of Hong Kong (and there wasn't anything else we could do btw) and left it at the mercy of some legislation document with China, they and us could only hope that the Chinese kept to their side of the bargain.

Lancasterclaret wrote:Point is that you have to draw the line somewhere in every situation.

This one isn't great for the UK, and it shows that when we pulled out of Hong Kong (and there wasn't anything else we could do btw) and left it at the mercy of some legislation document with China, they and us could only hope that the Chinese kept to their side of the bargain.

Let them get on with it, it'll sort itself out, eventually when a certain side recognises it's futile the side will back down, pain is the persuader.

Having to go on stage in the Christmas school play aged nine wearing some girl's red ribbed tights ('cos that's what they wore in Winter in the early sixties) because I was playing an old fashioned joker. Gives me shivers to think about it now.

Of course since then I've got used to it!

Edit. Actually I didn't see it. Unfortunately plenty of people did.

Devils_Advocate wrote:Watching the Isis guys fly those planes into the twin towers. I know people like to frame courage as something that is morally right but it didnt half take some balls to do what they did even if it was for an horrific cause

You know mate this is a good post. Sometimes the bad guy does brave things and you have to give them credit. My dad was in the army during the war and saw a lot of bad stuff but he always said he had nothing but admiration for German Soldiers, he described them as disciplined, brave and honourable. And how many on here would sign up to be a kamikaze pilot? As for the Isis guys, whatever people may think (and I would probably agree with you all) there is no fiercer enemy than one who doesn't fear death.

Lancasterclaret wrote:Lots of people in the world don't enjoy the freedoms that you take for granted Jakub. Never forget that.

Bravest thing I've ever seen?

People born in the 1950s going on about how tough it was in World War II because they only saw a banana when they were four.

Now that is bravery I just can't comprehend.

I was born in '54 bud but I don't remember any shortages of anything (although to be fair you don't recall much before you are 4 so maybe by '58 the worst was over).

Nigel Farage bravely, dare I say courageously, putting the country before his own party.

TheFamilyCat wrote:Nigel Farage bravely, dare I say courageously, putting the country before his own party.

Thats a good point.

Can't have been easy telling 350 odd gammon that the money they had paid to be election candidates wasn't going to be given back to them as they need it for, er, "expenses".

houseboy wrote:You know mate this is a good post. Sometimes the bad guy does brave things and you have to give them credit. My dad was in the army during the war and saw a lot of bad stuff but he always said he had nothing but admiration for German Soldiers, he described them as disciplined, brave and honourable. And how many on here would sign up to be a kamikaze pilot? As for the Isis guys, whatever people may think (and I would probably agree with you all) there is no fiercer enemy than one who doesn't fear death.

I'm not sure all German soldiers could be described as honourable. Those fighting on the front line, possibly but I don't think there's anything honourable about those who shot innocent men, women and children in cold blood.

Jakubclaret wrote:Let them get on with it, it'll sort itself out, eventually when a certain side recognises it's futile the side will back down, pain is the persuader.

Well that's the end of this thread. Might is right and bravery is stupid.

aggi wrote:I'd say there's often a fine line between the two. Given the fatality rates in the trenches then going over the top and charging a machine gun nest was stupid but undoubtedly also brave.

These protesters were trying to occupy the police so that other protesters could escape from the university where they were surrounded by police. I'd say that's pretty brave.

I have often wondered how brave those guys were walking into machine gun fire. On the face of it it is very brave but it was the better alternative to being shot by your own side for cowardice. On the field of battle you at least have a chance, when stood in front of a firing squad you have none.

aggi wrote:Given the fatality rates in the trenches then going over the top and charging a machine gun nest was stupid but undoubtedly also brave.

Not much option, bud. Go over the top and get obliterated or cower and get shot for cowardice.

Jakubclaret wrote:Let them get on with it, it'll sort itself out, eventually when a certain side recognises it's futile the side will back down, pain is the persuader.

I think you are the least brave poster on here. I'm not sure if you are on a wind up, but your attitude or stance is quite simply pathetic.

Chip Harrison wrote:I think you are the least brave poster on here. I'm not sure if you are on a wind up, but your attitude or stance is quite simply pathetic.

No not at all, I just realise it's pointless being concerned about some situations, I'd rather concentrate on situations where I can have some input & influence leading to change. Worrying about some Hong Kong student thousands of miles away doesn't sync with that same cognitive process.

houseboy wrote:You know mate this is a good post. Sometimes the bad guy does brave things and you have to give them credit. My dad was in the army during the war and saw a lot of bad stuff but he always said he had nothing but admiration for German Soldiers, he described them as disciplined, brave and honourable. And how many on here would sign up to be a kamikaze pilot? As for the Isis guys, whatever people may think (and I would probably agree with you all) there is no fiercer enemy than one who doesn't fear death.

I'm not sure it's right though. 'Bravery' surely requires a balance between what you feel you have to do and what you might lose by doing it. If (rightly or wrongly) you've decided that all the outcomes of an action, including your own demise, are positive, there's no bravery required, surely? I'm not meaning to trivialise it but there's more bravery in me risking a paper cut than what they did because I think a paper cut is a downside. They (in their own minds) had no downside.