• financial table

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:05 pm**

scary statistics...but we're doing well in the table that matters!

https://talksport.com/football/666456/r ... er-united/

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:10 pm**

Looking at that list we really are punching above our weight....long may it continue UTC.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:14 pm**

This post needs bringing to the top of the board every time a transfer window opens.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:18 pm**

martin_p wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:14 pm
This post needs bringing to the top of the board every time a transfer window opens.

Yep, it’s shows that those pesky foreign owners, perhaps aren’t as bad as folk seem to think.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:19 pm**

The gulf between being rich & really rich is huuuggee

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:25 pm**

martin_p wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:14 pm
This post needs bringing to the top of the board every time a transfer window opens.

Well said!! As posted above you we compete against big cash spenders and we have been doing it very well, the owner is doing a great job.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:32 pm**

We've known for long enough that Burnley are pretty much unique financially in the PL certainly in terms of wealth of owners, small town population etc. Any regular readers of the Magic Money Tree thread will know we constantly flag up the disparity between the very wealthy clubs and the likes of ourselves and Norwich.

But don't be fooled, the revenue we have, particularly from broadcast Income, still allows us to be competitive to an extent. Currently there's still room for more flexibility and manoeuvre in the financial side of our Club and fully utilising that flexibility in the next summer transfer window will be crucial to the short to mid-term future of our great Club.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:33 pm**

The wealth of the richest owners is staggering compared to our owner. It is amazing that we play in the same league. I imagine many championship teams have wealthier backers than us.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:40 pm**

So Manchester United are 59 times richer than us and yet we beat them 2-0!

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:57 pm**

Moorite wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:40 pm
So Manchester United are 59 times richer than us and yet we beat them 2-0!

It's the only thing that makes supporting a team wothwhile.

Its good to see Liverpool lower down that table than all their rivals. Not just money but patience and good management. Compare Klopps willingness to wait for VVD, and Ole's panic into buying Ighalo.
As long as we can hang onto SD we have an advantage on so many teams around us.

UTC l

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:22 pm**

In the finest traditions of the modern online world this is just a regurgitation of work done by someone else re-presented as their own when the initial report has either been forgotten or never went viral - The winter break looks like it is going to a focal point for this kind of practice

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43401

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:29 pm**

I’m not sure how the personal wealth of our owner affects us given we run the club as a business and he doesn’t fund it in any way. Even his investment in terms of shares has been through buying from other shareholders.

It’s not a criticism but some of those other clubs in the Premier League are very reliant on receiving financial benefits from their owners.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:01 pm**

The government should step in and make it a sport again, currently it’s a business. Squad salary cap is the way to go.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:06 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:29 pm
I’m not sure how the personal wealth of our owner affects us given we run the club as a business and he doesn’t fund it in any way. Even his investment in terms of shares has been through buying from other shareholders.

It’s not a criticism but some of those other clubs in the Premier League are very reliant on receiving financial benefits from their owners.

Thankfully, for us, we don't have to rely any longer on financial assistance from our BoD, but that most certainly has not always been the case. In fact for the first five years of the last decade we were heavily dependent on such help, to the extent that interest paid on director loans amounted to £1.45 million over that period.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:06 pm**

martin_p wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:14 pm
This post needs bringing to the top of the board every time a transfer window opens.

I'm sorry but why does the wealth of the Chairman have to do with financial health of BFC?

We have long moved on from a business model in which losses are underwritten.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:14 pm**

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:57 pm
It's the only thing that makes supporting a team wothwhile.

Its good to see Liverpool lower down that table than all their rivals. Not just money but patience and good management. Compare Klopps willingness to wait for VVD, and Ole's panic into buying Ighalo.
As long as we can hang onto SD we have an advantage on so many teams around us.

UTC l

Yes I noticed that Liverpools ownèrs are well down the rich list. The team aren't though which is good. The success of Burnley is really staggering.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:16 pm**

We need outside investment and quick. The last two years of transfers has shown us that Mike Garlic alone cannot financially support the club to maintain our Premier League status.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:26 pm**

Crazy that only two places up from us and already Bournemouth's owner is worth 15x ours.
City's owner 375x richer than ours.

This should be stickied every transfer window.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:28 pm**

Steddyman wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:16 pm
The last two years of transfers has shown us that Mike Garlic alone cannot financially support the club to maintain our Premier League status.

Except... he has

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:28 pm**

A good percentage of the championship clubs have much wealthier owners than ours. However, it doesn’t mean they have a clue on how to run a football club business as well as ours. Something to bear in mind when banging on about 4 failed transfer windows in a row whilst we sit in mid table of the premier league...

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:00 pm**

Steddyman wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:16 pm
We need outside investment and quick. The last two years of transfers has shown us that Mike Garlic alone cannot financially support the club to maintain our Premier League status.

Mike Garlick doesn’t financially support the club at all. He runs it as a business.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:09 pm**

KellyClaret wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:06 pm
I'm sorry but why does the wealth of the Chairman have to do with financial health of BFC?

We have long moved on from a business model in which losses are underwritten.

Surely the point is that there is no doubt that wealthy owners at a number of clubs have put in money to buy players and pay them. And if we had wealthy owners we could do the same. Having said that Burnley is a very well run club unlikely to collapse financially as some have and others could.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:10 pm**

The Glazers are worth billions and they take from united. We are an amazingly well run club and long that continue.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:10 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:00 pm
Mike Garlick doesn’t financially support the club at all. He runs it as a business.

I would nuance it further Tony

Mike Garlick runs Burnley FC in a business like manner apart from the fact he doesn't do it for personal profit he does it in the hope it will remain sustainable and a desire that when his custodianship ends that it will be in stronger health than when he took over - much like Barry Kilby

we have been fortunate with our clubs owners overall in that the great majority have shared this desire though not all have succeeded

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:00 pm**

Steddyman wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:16 pm
We need outside investment and quick. The last two years of transfers has shown us that Mike Garlic alone cannot financially support the club to maintain our Premier League status.

Currently in 11th, so why do we need investment quickly?

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:14 pm**

Chester Perry wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:10 pm
I would nuance it further Tony

Mike Garlick runs Burnley FC in a business like manner apart from the fact he doesn't do it for personal profit he does it in the hope it will remain sustainable and a desire that when his custodianship ends that it will be in stronger health than when he took over - much like Barry Kilby

we have been fortunate with our clubs owners overall in that the great majority have shared this desire though not all have succeeded

How it has been for much of my time watching Burnley. Posters such as steddyman seem to want us to break the bank with numerous signings every transfer window without having any understanding of the club or how it is run and how it should be run. This is a club that from 1980 to 2000 wasn't able to compete at what is now Championship level so it proves we've got more than a few things right in the subsequent 20 years.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:52 pm**

When we read the bleating about us not spending the £100million plus each season and not buying big, in the light of recent posts on our youngsters i wonder how much of those millions are being pumped into the Youth set up to try and get us a few more Mcneill's and what the cost of Category 1 will be when, more likely than not, we are successful this year?

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:59 pm**

Jim Radcliffe, owner of team Ineos, is supposedly looking to get into football.
Net worth of £21b he’d be welcome at most clubs.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:00 pm**

bfcjg wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:10 pm
The Glazers are worth billions and they take from united. We are an amazingly well run club and long that continue.

United in debt at around half a billion.
At last count the Glazers had taken £0.8 billion out of the club in interest and loan repayments and will continue to do so every year until they eventually sell the club and make a huge profit on their original investment.
Obviously United generate a massive amount of income every year - but they would be generating this irrespective of whether the Glazers had taken over or not. The Glazers have been very clever saddling the club with debt and then milking them every single year.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:03 pm**

The relevant table would be one sorted by how much dosh each owner has put in. For example, the Glazers are worth a few bob, but apart from buying the club initially, are they putting in, or are they taking out? In other words, if Man Utd had been “gifted” to a fans consortium, would they be more competitive, or less?

I’d suggest that isn’t an easy question to answer.

It is clubs like Bournemouth who are distorting things with owners spending way above the club’s means (and particularly the Championship clubs who are guilty of this). Clubs like Man Utd are always self sustainable in this globalised armchair fan market so it makes the Talksport table a bit silly.

I think we all applaud what Mike Garlick has done for Burnley, and we wouldn’t resent him eventually selling up and making a nine figure sum out of it (not unlikely if we stay in the PL). How may this tenure end? Burnley FC, while seeming unattractive versus city clubs, is arguably an attractive punt for a billionaire who wants to jump in on the back of Boris Johnson’s “levelling up” pledge and work in partnership to totally transform the town (e.g. a Chinese billionaire pal of the Chinese State who may want to prove that China is a better buddy to the UK than the US by piling investment into struggling towns and using football to help shout about it). I know that seems “out there” as a suggestion, but we are talking about billionaires, and they have different motivations to the rest of us, so who know how and why Burnley end up with an owner higher up that list?

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:04 pm**

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:59 pm
Jim Radcliffe, owner of team Ineos, is supposedly looking to get into football.
Net worth of £21b he’d be welcome at most clubs.

this type of investment would ensure hot running water in JHU!

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:08 pm**

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:03 pm
The relevant table would be one sorted by how much dosh each owner has put in. For example, the Glazers are worth a few bob, but apart from buying the club initially, are they putting in, or are they taking out? In other words, if Man Utd had been “gifted” to a fans consortium, would they be more competitive, or less?

I’d suggest that isn’t an easy question to answer.

It is clubs like Bournemouth who are distorting things with owners spending way above the club’s means (and particularly the Championship clubs who are guilty of this). Clubs like Man Utd are always self sustainable in this globalised armchair fan market so it makes the Talksport table a bit silly.

I think we all applaud what Mike Garlick has done for Burnley, and we wouldn’t resent him eventually selling up and making a nine figure sum out of it (not unlikely if we stay in the PL). How may this tenure end? Burnley FC, while seeming unattractive versus city clubs, is arguably an attractive punt for a billionaire who wants to jump in on the back of Boris Johnson’s “levelling up” pledge and work in partnership to totally transform the town (e.g. a Chinese billionaire pal of the Chinese State who may want to prove that China is a better buddy to the UK than the US by piling investment into struggling towns and using football to help shout about it). I know that seems “out there” as a suggestion, but we are talking about billionaires, and they have different motivations to the rest of us, so who know how and why Burnley end up with an owner higher up that list?

On the subject of the Glazers, they didn't even buy the club. They borrowed to buy it and then saddled the debt on the club. Hicks & Gillett did the same at Liverpool and the club nearly went under because of it. That could never happen to Man U because of their ability to make money but don't ever believe the Glazers invested a single penny. All they have ever done is take out.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:18 pm**

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:03 pm
How may this tenure end? Burnley FC, while seeming unattractive versus city clubs, is arguably an attractive punt for a billionaire who wants to jump in on the back of Boris Johnson’s “levelling up” pledge and work in partnership to totally transform the town (e.g. a Chinese billionaire pal of the Chinese State who may want to prove that China is a better buddy to the UK than the US by piling investment into struggling towns and using football to help shout about it). I know that seems “out there” as a suggestion, but we are talking about billionaires, and they have different motivations to the rest of us, so who know how and why Burnley end up with an owner higher up that list?

You can really see people flocking to Burnley with a shopping centre to rival the Westfield centre in Stratford, London, for example!

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:40 am**

claretblue wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:04 pm
this type of investment would ensure hot running water in JHU!

But be careful what you wish for. There are many potential investors out there who would put the whole club in hot water not just the JHU!

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:21 am**

CombatClaret wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 2:26 pm

City's owner 375x richer than ours.

This should be stickied every transfer window.

Especially when we're constantly going head to head with City for new players. I'm still astounded that we beat them to the signature of Josh Brownhill.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:48 am**

Head in the sand from some people as usual. Empty vessels and all that. What these people never seem to understand is as a self sufficient club we'd be completely screwed if we spent the kind of money they think we should do and then got relegated. Of course, that would never happen in their arrogant world where they'd get every decision spot on if they were chairman and manager (you know, because they're multi-skilled). It's all about ambition you see.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:16 am**

Spijed wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:18 pm
You can really see people flocking to Burnley with a shopping centre to rival the Westfield centre in Stratford, London, for example!

Well indeed, and whilst my Chinese example was only a bit of fun, what would be more advantageous than a shopping centre would be if the whole of North Lancashire was made a Freeport (consultation on Freeports launched today), remaining outside the main UK customs zone, and huge overseas investors were rushing to set up businesses inside it (e.g. Huawei choosing to set up a UK manufacturing hub along the M65 corridor, coincidentally close to Salmesbury

), one of which also buys up Burnley FC for the "winning hearts and minds" bit, like Abramovich and others have had to do.

Still only a bit of fun, I'm only jesting, any part of the example is probably only 5% likely, but the point being that in strange times of extreme change things tend to happen that we don't foresee, and a change of ownership at the Turf could easily be one of them.

Anyway, fun aside, I agree with others that Garlick is right not to splash too much cash at it, I wish he splashed a bit more, and shared some kind of future vision that would give us a modern 21st century stadium instead of the silence being deafening, but I'd rather he did it his way than the way some others have chosen.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:40 pm**

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:16 am
Anyway, fun aside, I agree with others that Garlick is right not to splash too much cash at it, I wish he splashed a bit more, and shared some kind of future vision that would give us a modern 21st century stadium instead of the silence being deafening, but I'd rather he did it his way than the way some others have chosen.

That's a great way of looking at it. I have no problem with people being like that. I just can't do with the opinions that make out the club is in a terrible way and it's a catalogue of errors. Burnley fans should be very grateful for where we are and what we continue to achieve. We can always aspire to be better, there's nothing wrong with that, but there's also nothing wrong with being cautious whilst doing it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:53 pm**

In my opinion the acid test to judge Garlick's reign in charge will be in about 15/20 years time and we look around and think did he fix the roof when the sun was shining. If the roof hasn't been fixed and the ground is falling apart and he walks away with a 9 figure sum in the intermediate years as 1 poster stated then I think that would be a pretty outrageous failure on his part.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:54 pm**

Sproggy wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:21 am
Especially when we're constantly going head to head with City for new players. I'm still astounded that we beat them to the signature of Josh Brownhill.

Never suggest we shop in the same market as them, but we do play them twice a season so it's worth pointing out the disparity.

Posted: **Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:37 am**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:29 pm
I’m not sure how the personal wealth of our owner affects us given we run the club as a business and he doesn’t fund it in any way. Even his investment in terms of shares has been through buying from other shareholders.

It’s not a criticism but some of those other clubs in the Premier League are very reliant on receiving financial benefits from their owners.

Agreed. The wealthy owners have invested heavily in their acquired club and grown that club towards its business and professional capability.

Our club directors were signed up by Barry Kilby, largely to keep us afloat, when the finances did not work. That they did and may have to do again, one day.

I would like to see us widen our profile in other parts of the world, to make some pennies, during our stay in the prem. We are one of the teams receiving the most exposure in the world and yet we do not appear to maximise this potential income source.

Posted: **Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:20 pm**

Champions of balance sheets, you'll never sing that

Posted: **Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:39 pm**

Has put all the right people in the right places over the last 5-6 years - we have stability under him that we have never had before as a result of his sound decision making . Keep it going !

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