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Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:32 pm
by No Ney Never
While Dyche gets the plaudits for great man management, I'm beginning to wonder how much power the players possess.
It's notable how the whole team, not just individuals, upped their game when JRod came in for Ash.
Is it just coincidence, or is there more to it?
How do you tell the gaffa, without pi55ing on your chips, that he's playing his favourites and not his best 11?
If you're in training everyday and it's clear that one player is better than another but doesn't get a game, why would you give it your all if the manager isn't playing the best 11, but instead is playing his favourite 11?
Vydra, the players wouldn't be so much behind him did they not think he'd been a bit hard done to. Its no wonder they were so pleased for him.
I know we're doing OK, but I don't think all is quite what it seems.
Just one other thing, it's a gut feeling only, sell Ash and keep Vydra.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:36 pm
by Blackburn_Claret
Garlick out !
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:42 pm
by thomaspaine
Barnsey's here to stay. We need them all... Plus he epitomises what our football club is all about.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:44 pm
by Devils_Advocate
I think you might be on to something. Apparently the players told Ash they's sort him out a right smart car as a gift to show how him much they like all liked him
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:12 pm
by IanMcL
I think it is more of a case that they all recognised how long it had been for Vydra, waiting for a decent opportunity. Just about everyone else has had a few games. Being 4th is a further step away from injury cover or sub chance.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:21 pm
by HollandsPies
Can you imagine being on the pitch with the game not entirely going your way?
Then Vydra hammers home an unstoppable strike.
No wonder they went bonkers.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:30 pm
by ElectroClaret
No Ney Never wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:32 pm
I know we're doing OK, but I don't think all is quite what it seems.
More specifically? That's a bit vague.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:47 pm
by Vegas Claret
Dyche has crafted the mentality seen on show, for me it's his most powerful tool.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:47 pm
by Bin Ont Turf
There's a lot of supposition and shite in the opening post.
He doesn't have a favourite 11, he picks an 11 that can do the job to his specifications.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:52 pm
by fidelcastro
Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:47 pm
There's a lot of supposition and shite in the opening post.
He doesn't have a favourite 11, he picks an 11 that can do the job to his specifications.
Definitely more shite than supposition.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:58 pm
by Bin Ont Turf
fidelcastro wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:52 pm
Definitely more shite than supposition.
Just trying to be a little bit nice, it is Sunday after all.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:01 pm
by Vegas Claret
Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:58 pm
Just trying to be a little bit nice, it is Sunday after all.
what ? you have a reputation to uphold ffs !
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:02 pm
by fidelcastro
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:01 pm
what ? you have a reputation to uphold ffs !
As do you... what's with all the recent positivity?
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:05 pm
by Bin Ont Turf
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:01 pm
what ? you have a reputation to uphold ffs !
You're confusing me with Google BOT.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:06 pm
by Rileybobs
No Ney Never wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:32 pm
Just one other thing, it's a gut feeling only, sell Ash and keep Vydra.
I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes I do wonder why that has to be the case.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:07 pm
by Vegas Claret
fidelcastro wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:02 pm
As do you... what's with all the recent positivity?
I've been pretty positive I would say for the last 4 years - I think it was living in Dallas that made me a moody doom monster
rest assured, I'll still bitch when our footy is crap though !
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:10 pm
by fidelcastro
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:07 pm
I've been pretty positive I would say for the last 4 years - I think it was living in Dallas that made me a moody doom monster
rest assured, I'll still bitch when our footy is crap though !
It's like you regenerated Doctor Who style from JR to Viva... and all was well with the world again!
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:46 pm
by Row Z
The whole team upped their game as Ash was carrying a knock for weeks! No wonder team performances improved.
Dyche naturally has his favoured 11, and it is potentially a weakness of his in terms of integrating players into that 11, however he gets it right far more often than not.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:06 pm
by Dark Cloud
Selling Ash would be gash (As they say!)
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:13 pm
by cblantfanclub
All this on the evidence of one goal - let's see if the Messiah can walk on water first.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:21 pm
by Bop
I think the OP has a fair debatable point. I think Barnes is great. Horrible to play against. Wonderful asset for us. I watched his shooting practice pre- game before he was injured. He bagged from outside the box in every practice shot. Made me realise how deadly he can be.
BUT. Now JR’s settled in I think he adds a greater footballing dimension. Possibly a purer football team with him in. And Vydra could add to that.
What a wonderful dilemma. I’ll trust Dyche, but will be very interested to see what we can do if Wood is out and Vydra starts.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:32 pm
by RalphCoatesComb
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:47 pm
Dyche has crafted the mentality seen on show, for me it's his most powerful tool.
You mean, more than, surely not, more than, tell me I'm wrong, more than... his 3-egg omelette?!
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:36 pm
by RalphCoatesComb
Row Z wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:46 pm
Dyche naturally has his favoured 11./quote]
And, that favoured team is based on "HARD WORK". I'm guessing that those who don't give 100% during training aren't even considered for the First 11
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:37 pm
by RalphCoatesComb
cblantfanclub wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:13 pm
All this on the evidence of one goal - let's see if the Messiah can walk on water first.
Yeah, but what a goal
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:40 pm
by Bin Ont Turf
Bop wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:21 pm
I think the OP has a fair debatable point. I think Barnes is great. Horrible to play against. Wonderful asset for us. I watched his shooting practice pre- game before he was injured. He bagged from outside the box in every practice shot. Made me realise how deadly he can be.
BUT. Now JR’s settled in I think he adds a greater footballing dimension. Possibly a purer football team with him in. And Vydra could add to that.
What a wonderful dilemma. I’ll trust Dyche, but will be very interested to see what we can do if Wood is out and Vydra starts.
So not a debatable point with what you have said (nothing to do what the OP has said) after then.
The opening poster is suggesting that the players are playing and doing well in spite of Dyche. And that they are happy for Vydra because he's been treat appallingly.
Like I said, shite.
Re: Player power
Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:52 pm
by Bop
Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:40 pm
So not a debatable point with what you have said (nothing to do what the OP has said) after then.
The opening poster is suggesting that the players are playing and doing well in spite of Dyche. And that they are happy for Vydra because he's been treat appallingly.
Like I said, shite.
Ok ok. Calm down. I agree with your point that Dyche picks a team to do a job. However, I do think that player power MAY...& I’ll repeat that, MAY have an influence. I don’t think Vydra’s been treated wrong at all.
Unless I’m mistaken the OP’s point was that some of the team may think that Vydra’s a player worth a punt. And I respect that.
My point was - it’s debatable. So thanks for entering into the debate.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:02 am
by Bin Ont Turf
Bop wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:52 pm
Unless I’m mistaken the OP’s point was that some of the team may think that Vydra’s a player worth a punt. And I respect that.
Vydra is part of the team. If some folk are going off the celebrations after is goal yesterday to think that it was in some way an endorsement of Vydra against the manager, then that's just stupid.
He'd just scored a brilliant goal after not playing very much. Part of a 'team'.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:12 am
by dsr
No Ney Never wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:32 pm
While Dyche gets the plaudits for great man management, I'm beginning to wonder how much power the players possess.
It's notable how the whole team, not just individuals, upped their game when JRod came in for Ash.
Is it just coincidence, or is there more to it?
How do you tell the gaffa, without pi55ing on your chips, that he's playing his favourites and not his best 11?
If you're in training everyday and it's clear that one player is better than another but doesn't get a game, why would you give it your all if the manager isn't playing the best 11, but instead is playing his favourite 11?
Vydra, the players wouldn't be so much behind him did they not think he'd been a bit hard done to. Its no wonder they were so pleased for him.
I know we're doing OK, but I don't think all is quite what it seems.
Just one other thing, it's a gut feeling only, sell Ash and keep Vydra.
Rodriguez' first five starts of the season were Leicester 1-2, Chelsea 2-4, Sheffield United 0-3, Spurs 0-5, Everton 0-1. All but the first of those were abysmal team performances.
Are you suggesting that in the first half of the season the other players hated his guts and told Sean Dyche that they wouldn't even try if Rodriguez played, but now they have realised they quite like him after all and Barnes is the one they hate?
And re. Vydra, being pleased for someone because he has achieved something is not the same as believing he is hard done to. The players know there is room for only 11 in the team.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:21 am
by Jakubclaret
Bin Ont Turf wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:02 am
Vydra is part of the team. If some folk are going off the celebrations after is goal yesterday to think that it was in some way an endorsement of Vydra against the manager, then that's just stupid.
He'd just scored a brilliant goal after not playing very much. Part of a 'team'.
Just raw emotions kicking in & obviously buzzed up with the goal, 99.9% of footballers with professional pride would have done exactly the same. He's proved he's dependable I guess with the doubters.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:31 am
by Vegas Claret
RalphCoatesComb wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:32 pm
You mean, more than, surely not, more than, tell me I'm wrong, more than... his 3-egg omelette?!
I reckon it was his mrs that cooked it
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:05 am
by Bop
BOT.
My boy played U18’s locally today. He thought one of the subs should have started, and could possibly have made a bigger impact than those in the starting 11.
He still respects his manager and his team mates and gives his all.
Some players MAY give less if they feel that strongly.
FFS it’s not shite, it’s just debatable.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:33 am
by Bop
I thought the team celebrations were just that. TEAM celebrations. I’m no way implying anything else. I was there and I went crazy when ‘we’ scored. However I do think everyone’s entitled to an opinion. Mine was to slightly agree with the OP. Very simply, some players may disagree with team selection & that may affect their performance.
Liz Hurley said I was her best lover, but I’m sure there may be some jealous bastards that disagree.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:53 am
by SandyLaneClaret
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:30 am
by houseboy
Vegas Claret wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:47 pm
Dyche has crafted the mentality seen on show, for me it's his most powerful tool.
I don't think he's a tool at all, seems okay to me.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:35 am
by Colburn_Claret
The difference in results is all down to style, and not individual players. Even before Ash got injured many were saying we needed to keep the ball on the deck and play less long ball. We've started doing that, and getting more bodies in the box, but JayRod playing is no more than coincidence.
Ash is excellent at holding the ball up, and playing little lay offs, but if your back up, McNeil, Hendrick and Westwood are so far behind you you are isolated, then it doesn't matter how good you are.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 9:38 am
by houseboy
cblantfanclub wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:13 pm
All this on the evidence of one goal - let's see if the Messiah can walk on water first.
As opposed to what other evidence to the contrary? Yes it was one goal as you say but who's to say he can't do that regularly if given the chance, a chance he has never been given before to any degree. He was a 20-odd goal player of the season in the Championship and that suggests he ain't too shabby. Who's to say that given a run in the side and getting match fit (as opposed to the mythological Dyche fit) he can't be brilliant for us. I hope we keep all 4 strikers but if one had to go I'd opt for Barnes because he offers bluster and fight (great qualities) but not a lot else. Others may well disagree.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:36 pm
by Claret Toni
Just wonder if the style of celebration was influenced by what went on with Gibson.
MV has got to have been frustrated disappointed but kept on working and was ready when needed and produced. His team-mates were genuinely delighted for him, and this in a week when another had chosen to go home to mum, or at least Uncle Steve.
Course it could just have been the win bonus they were up for.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:49 pm
by houseboy
Claret Toni wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:36 pm
Just wonder if the style of celebration was influenced by what went on with Gibson.
MV has got to have been frustrated disappointed but kept on working and was ready when needed and produced. His team-mates were genuinely delighted for him, and this in a week when another had chosen to go home to mum, or at least Uncle Steve.
Course it could just have been the win bonus they were up for.
The sheer joy was obvious to see from all concerned, not least the lad himself. Early days but I'd love to see him get a right go now, but that will depend on Wood's fitness and we don't want him out for too long. If Barnes is fit for weekend I'd hate to see Vydra dropped for him. I still maintain he offers a lot more options than Barnes. Our football has definitely improved in the last few weeks, whether that is because of Barnes being out or despite it remains to be seen, but we are definitely playing more 'football'. Until Vydra gets a proper run in the team we will never know his true potential but one thing I'm sure of, Barnes wouldn't score a goal like that.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:04 pm
by fidelcastro
houseboy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:49 pm
Until Vydra gets a proper run in the team we will never know his true potential but one thing I'm sure of, Barnes wouldn't score a goal like that.
Does Barnes not score great strikes then?
Have you forgotten Wolves this season or West Brom away a couple of seasons ago, to name just two?
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:17 pm
by houseboy
fidelcastro wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:04 pm
Does Barnes not score great strikes then?
Have you forgotten Wolves this season or West Brom away a couple of seasons ago, to name just two?
He's scored some excellent goals but rarely if ever great individuals. I am still not totally convinced, and never have quite been, about Barnes. I have criticised him a good deal but sometimes, as earlier this season, he seems to get it together for a while, and I wouldn't want him to go anywhere because he is a team player and a great servant, but I have never been his biggest fan.
Re: Player power
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:09 pm
by Iloveyoubrady
houseboy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:17 pm
He's scored some excellent goals but rarely if ever great individuals. I am still not totally convinced, and never have quite been, about Barnes. I have criticised him a good deal but sometimes, as earlier this season, he seems to get it together for a while, and I wouldn't want him to go anywhere because he is a team player and a great servant, but I have never been his biggest fan.
I have the same feeling about Barnes. Vydra is a proven goalscorer, albeit not at this level but he is undoubtedly a lively player and quicker than what we have.