Citroen 2cv or Volkswagen Beetle

If you were to do a classic car restoration with a generous budget for a high quality end product (brand new body shell) which of these two would you choose to restore and why?

2CV - I remember a Top Gear ( I think, might have been The Grand Tour EDIT - it was James May cars of the people!) where James May had one and showed went through the history of it and how versatile it is.

Still see old beetles but can't remember the last time I saw a 2CV on the road so that's the one I'd go for.

I have a few old planks of wood that I save 'just in case' so they would be ideal for the 2CV.

Saw Ken Dodd in Ilkley many years ago. He said the 2CV was a 'shed on wheels'.

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:46 am

Citroen 2cv or Volkswagen Beetle

If you were to do a classic car restoration with a generous budget for a high quality end product (brand new body shell) which of these two would you choose to restore and why?

Neither, with a generous budget as suggested I'd buy something there might be some pleasure in driving after the resto was finished. Both of the suggested cars are horrific on the road. If I had a gun to my head, the Beetle but only because of ease of resale at completion.

I've heard the 2CV referred to as an upturned pram !!

Caballo wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:32 am

Neither, with a generous budget as suggested I'd buy something there might be some pleasure in driving after the resto was finished. Both of the suggested cars are horrific on the road. If I had a gun to my head, the Beetle but only because of ease of resale at completion.

Have you tried changing the plugs on the old Beetle ? Blinkin' nightmare.

Funkydrummer wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:35 am

Have you tried changing the plugs on the old Beetle ? Blinkin' nightmare.

No, but I did my work experience in a garage when I was at school and we had to change a clutch on a 2CV. I reckon it would have been quicker and easier to build a new car.

I did an MG midget years ago.

Shells are available for the B and BGT now brand new.


An MG with a Tesla motor unit in it would be my option .

Unfortunately petrol engine classics are going to become a depreciating asset as petrol gets phased out.

Neither. Both are utter garbage to drive. If I was forced to pick, I’d probably say Beetle. The 2CV is a death trap in any bump over 30mph. They fold like the pram they are.

2 CV failed the NCAP crash test

Volkswagen Beetle every time.

Mainly because the chassis of an old beetle is exchangeable with that of a Porsche!

High end restoration of the shell, swap the chassis around, full rebuild of the engine/gearbox etc and then kit out appropriately inside and you have a very interesting car which can surprise a few people....

One big advantage of the 2cv is that they are soooo easy to disassemble...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DOe_hi5XE7I

The 2 CV for me I have had many BX and Xantia's over the years I love the whole Citroen story especially the 2 CV and the government spec that insisted it had to traverse a ploughed field and be able to accommodate the largest French loaf, hence the canvas roof. When reading the Citroen story years ago I discovered that prior to WW11 the largest and brightest illuminated sign was the 2 gear representations, Citroen chevrons, covering the length of the Eiffel Tower on a clear night it could be seen from London.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:24 am

2 CV failed the NCAP crash test

unnamed.jpg

Hope the pedestrian it hit was ok

cbx750 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:03 am

Still see old beetles but can't remember the last time I saw a 2CV on the road so that's the one I'd go for.

I saw a red 2CV just outside Whalley last week. but even rarer, I saw a Talbot Solara ( Silver over Burgundy ) in Barrowford recently !

LordBob wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:41 pm

The 2 CV for me I have had many BX and Xantia's over the years I love the whole Citroen story especially the 2 CV and the government spec that insisted it had to traverse a ploughed field and be able to accommodate the largest French loaf, hence the canvas roof. When reading the Citroen story years ago I discovered that prior to WW11 the largest and brightest illuminated sign was the 2 gear representations, Citroen chevrons, covering the length of the Eiffel Tower on a clear night it could be seen from London.

Lovely story about the Eiffel Tower from London, but I'm highly sceptical that the curvature of the Earth would allow you to see a tower only a thousand feet high from over 200 miles away.

LordBob wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:41 pm

The 2 CV for me I have had many BX and Xantia's over the years I love the whole Citroen story especially the 2 CV and the government spec that insisted it had to traverse a ploughed field and be able to accommodate the largest French loaf, hence the canvas roof. When reading the Citroen story years ago I discovered that prior to WW11 the largest and brightest illuminated sign was the 2 gear representations, Citroen chevrons, covering the length of the Eiffel Tower on a clear night it could be seen from London.

I believe the spec also included that whilst traversing the filed, a basket of eggs should remain unbroken, and the head room should be sufficient for Monsieur and his good lady to wear a hat ! This was not a problem, back in the day when French babies were fed diluted wine rather than milk, leading to the French not being very tall !

Beetle - then drop a scooby engine in it innit

It depends whether you want to imagine you're sitting inside a butty box or a 1950's radio

Lord Beamish wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:02 am

Neither. Both are utter garbage to drive. If I was forced to pick, I’d probably say Beetle. The 2CV is a death trap in any bump over 30mph. They fold like the pram they are.

I was on the motorway south of London on the way to see us at Gillingham in my 2CV6 in September 1996 when a youth in a Renault Traffic [on the phone, I should add] clipped the outside barrier and rebounded into my front offside wheel, demolishing the front quarter of the car. It flipped on to the roof, ripping the sun roof off. I hit the side barrier, the car, by this time on its side. As I came to a rest, it flipped back on to its wheels. I jumped out, waved the rescue helicopter [which someone had rung and which turned up in record time] away. My only injury was a bruised rib. In any other car, I bet I'd have been seriously injured. I missed the match, though.

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:40 pm

I was on the motorway south of London on the way to see us at Gillingham in my 2CV6 in September 1996 when a youth in a Renault Traffic [on the phone, I should add] clipped the outside barrier and rebounded into my front offside wheel, demolishing the front quarter of the car. It flipped on to the roof, ripping the sun roof off. I hit the side barrier, the car, by this time on its side. As I came to a rest, it flipped back on to its wheels. I jumped out, waved the rescue helicopter [which someone had rung and which turned up in record time] away. My only injury was a bruised rib. In any other car, I bet I'd have been seriously injured. I missed the match, though.

Did you set off for the match in August ?

I saw a 2CV go past me last week - didn't think they were still in existence. A mate of mine used to drive one years ago.

Were you walking at the time Tony.

Clarets4me wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:49 pm

Did you set off for the match in August ?

No. I was living in east London.

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:24 am

2 CV failed the NCAP crash test

unnamed.jpg

That’s not a 2CV.

Beetle for me as it was my first car
Loved that machine.

bfcwest wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:34 pm

That’s not a 2CV.

OK it may have been a Dyane ....

http://www.citrobe.org/wrecks.htm

But not a lot of difference is it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Dyane

As a 2CV owner I see a lot of difference between a 2CV and a Dyane (you were right!), but I appreciate they are similar if you are not into them.

My first car was a 1972 beetle, and I’ve had 2CVs for nearly 30 years now. Love em both, but the 2CV is just such fun and a bit more manageable than an old beetle.

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:46 am

Citroen 2cv or Volkswagen Beetle

If you were to do a classic car restoration with a generous budget for a high quality end product (brand new body shell) which of these two would you choose to restore and why?

To answer your question is really hard because there are so many factors. Main question would be what do you want from it? A car to love and use? An investment? A restoration project to work on as a hobby?

You’ll struggle to make money on either if you are paying others to do the work, but you could create a car that if done well and looked after would be worth £6k to £10k indefinitely. Only really old versions or special editions can generate north of £12k on either Beetles or 2CVs, but these are harder to find and cost more in the first place.

Morris Minor!

bfcwest wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:43 pm

To answer your question is really hard because there are so many factors. Main question would be what do you want from it? A car to love and use? An investment? A restoration project to work on as a hobby?

You’ll struggle to make money on either if you are paying others to do the work, but you could create a car that if done well and looked after would be worth £6k to £10k indefinitely. Only really old versions or special editions can generate north of £12k on either Beetles or 2CVs, but these are harder to find and cost more in the first place.

This is a restoration project as a retirement hobby. I have already bought a 32 year old Citroen 2cv for £1,500 - it is mechanically sound but the body shell is riddled with rust (as expected).

An interesting development is that the original 2cv factory are now manufacturing (due to worldwide demand) high quality, highly rust resistant complete body shells which are expensive but will save many hours of cutting out rust and plate welding what is already a rather fragile body shell design.

Project starts next week and I can't wait to get going!

There are plenty of 2cvs in rural France. I have never driven one but I had a 6 volt battery Beetle as my first car in the 1960’s and had several 12 volt ones to follow until I had children and needed more space. I loved driving a Beetle and remember them fondly but wouldn’t want to return to them now.

Clarets4me wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:16 pm

I saw a red 2CV just outside Whalley last week. but even rarer, I saw a Talbot Solara ( Silver over Burgundy ) in Barrowford recently !

My Grandad had a Talbot Solara, he then sold it and bought another newer one - both in Burgundy..... very surprised any are still on the road.

Sutton-Claret wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:59 am

My Grandad had a Talbot Solara, he then sold it and bought another newer one - both in Burgundy..... very surprised any are still on the road.

According to " Howmanyleft.co.uk " , there were 9 Talbot Solara's taxed at the end of 2018, and 23 Chrysler Avenger's ( my first car ) .....

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:47 am

This is a restoration project as a retirement hobby. I have already bought a 32 year old Citroen 2cv for £1,500 - it is mechanically sound but the body shell is riddled with rust (as expected).

An interesting development is that the original 2cv factory are now manufacturing (due to worldwide demand) high quality, highly rust resistant complete body shells which are expensive but will save many hours of cutting out rust and plate welding what is already a rather fragile body shell design.

Project starts next week and I can't wait to get going!

That's brilliant, well done. 1988? My guess is its a 'Dolly', but it could be a '6 Special', 'Charleston' or a Green 'Bambo' (in which case I'm jealous!).
Are you going to keep it original or looking to change the colour?

How is your chassis? That is one of the major things to go. Get it really well checked and replace with a new galvanised one if any issues, cost you about £800 but worth it if you are changing the body! You'll have a new car!!

There are plenty of places for parts and help depending upon where you are based. I use ECAS in Staffordshire. But there are companies in Bradford and Somerset who are good. You can also utilise websites in Netherlands and France who do loads of cool stuff.

Good luck, and take loads of photos as you go.

Hasn't someone brought out a full electric 2CV?

I may have dreamt it. I had one back in the day, the only car that made me travelsick whilst driving.

That’s like asking which would you prefer, syphilis or gonorrhoea.

ChrisG wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:22 pm

Lovely story about the Eiffel Tower from London, but I'm highly sceptical that the curvature of the Earth would allow you to see a tower only a thousand feet high from over 200 miles away.

Careful Chris, you don’t want to offend the flat earth Society. If they catch you, they’ll throw you off the edge.

bfcwest wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:44 am

That's brilliant, well done. 1988? My guess is its a 'Dolly', but it could be a '6 Special', 'Charleston' or a Green 'Bambo' (in which case I'm jealous!).
Are you going to keep it original or looking to change the colour?

How is your chassis? That is one of the major things to go. Get it really well checked and replace with a new galvanised one if any issues, cost you about £800 but worth it if you are changing the body! You'll have a new car!!

There are plenty of places for parts and help depending upon where you are based. I use ECAS in Staffordshire. But there are companies in Bradford and Somerset who are good. You can also utilise websites in Netherlands and France who do loads of cool stuff.

Good luck, and take loads of photos as you go.

Project update for those who might be interested:
I have just ordered a brand new 2cv body shell to be painted in Citroen Alpine White.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dPrru_gvrHs

Project update: The chassis, engine and transmission were in very good condition from the original ‘donor car’.

I have replaced the rear suspension arms and brake components and fitted the new body shell. More or less all interior components from the original body shell have been transferred across into the new body shell (wiring, instruments, steering components, seat belts etc).

I now need to find a local car body repair/restoration company to help with refurbishing the original doors, bonnet, boot and wings.

Can any UTC reader recommend anyone within 10 miles of Burnley?

Thanks

Bosscat wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:24 am

2 CV failed the NCAP crash test

unnamed.jpg

I was on the way to Gillingham from London in 1996 for an away game, and some p1llock in a Renault Traffic van, on his mobile phone, hit the central barrier and catapulted into my 2CV6's front quarter, demolishing the offside front wheel. The car turned on to its roof, slid on it from the central lane to the barrier at the side, flipping on to its side as it continued on its path, scraping the barrier and finally coming to a halt after flipping on to the remaining wheels. I just got out. I reckon in any other car, I could have been killed.

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 18, 2020 9:57 am

I did an MG midget years ago.

Shells are available for the B and BGT now brand new.


An MG with a Tesla motor unit in it would be my option .

Unfortunately petrol engine classics are going to become a depreciating asset as petrol gets phased out.

RWB Classic cars have built your dream car ... James May's review is on Yu-Tube ... yours for £90,000, base model, of course !!

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:30 pm

Hasn't someone brought out a full electric 2CV?

I may have dreamt it. I had one back in the day, the only car that made me travelsick whilst driving.

There are fully electric restorations of Beetles which go like the clappers. Some beautiful examples to be found on YouTube.
For example: https://youtu.be/fXsQGWWz3Is

Quicknick wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:08 pm

I was on the way to Gillingham from London in 1996 for an away game, and some p1llock in a Renault Traffic van, on his mobile phone, hit the central barrier and catapulted into my 2CV6's front quarter, demolishing the offside front wheel. The car turned on to its roof, slid on it from the central lane to the barrier at the side, flipping on to its side as it continued on its path, scraping the barrier and finally coming to a halt after flipping on to the remaining wheels. I just got out. I reckon in any other car, I could have been killed.

More importantly did you arrive at Gillingham in time for kick off?

My first car (1970) was a1960 Beetle,great car but its chassis went. Much later we had 2CV. Think it’s chassis went. Currently on my second Suzuki Jimny. My last one’s chassis went (19 years old)

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:03 pm

879F546C-C708-4337-B50E-72FDDD431D41.jpeg

Project update: The chassis, engine and transmission were in very good condition from the original ‘donor car’.

I have replaced the rear suspension arms and brake components and fitted the new body shell. More or less all interior components from the original body shell have been transferred across into the new body shell (wiring, instruments, steering components, seat belts etc).

I now need to find a local car body repair/restoration company to help with refurbishing the original doors, bonnet, boot and wings.

Can any UTC reader recommend anyone within 10 miles of Burnley?

Thanks

Looking good, you've made great progress. Is it going to be white?
Sorry, I can't help you on the bodyshop question near Burnley.
Be a case of google search for 'body shop' and check their ratings if you are looking for a general specialist rather than a 2CV specialist.