Void Or Continue? One Word Answer

VOID

Continue....there is no alternative.

With a purported extra 3 weeks in lockdown, we'll have to see how the rest of this whole thing plays out.

We can't just immediately lift lockdown and allow business as usual either.

Restart the season in July? And then cram the 2020/21 season into the remainder of the time? And start again as normal in 2021?

I don't think we will be going back to any kind of normal any time soon.

Keep on going .

Continue when it's suitable to do so,whenever that is,but health & safety for players,staff and supporters is paramount,so it won't be in the foreseeable.

Continue but without the fans.

The Premier League and the clubs can't afford to not finish the season so it's a completely moot point. The only debate is when it restarts.

I thought we had a vote on this with 4 choices by CT and the overwhelming agreement was to continue, split between 2 of the 4 choices.

KateR wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:58 pm

I thought we had a vote on this with 4 choices by CT and the overwhelming agreement was to continue, split between 2 of the 4 choices.

Sorry must have missed that one. Delete if need to

Anyone who is happy to void the season obviously doesn't care about teams going to the wall.

TomtheClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:26 pm

Sorry must have missed that one. Delete if need to

Tom,
no, no, that was not my intent, I was rushing, just it might help to go back and resurrect or get Tony to actually publish the results or offer for any who have not seen yet to complete, not sure if the survey had an end timeline or not.

Play on.
A season of single matches next season if time is tight or, my preference, drop both cups for the year and get a 38 match season in.

Notarsed

Tricky Trevor wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:42 pm

Play on.
A season of single matches next season if time is tight or, my preference, drop both cups for the year and get a 38 match season in.

Just play more midweek games there is plenty of time....at the moment

For me just drop the league cup if something has to go.

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:28 pm

Anyone who is happy to void the season obviously doesn't care about teams going to the wall.

That's a fairly simplistic view on the situation. Voiding the season is now seen as a much better option for many lower league clubs. For the PL, there's a lot of unanswered questions about the future that depending on what the answers are may end up with voiding the season being much better than any alternative. I keep seeing people saying we'll just play games in shorter timescales next season and similar, but we don't yet know how long this will go on and how many lockdowns we need to go through. We don't know if the government will allow football matches when there's other social distancing in place. We don't know if authorities will allow behind closed door games when that brings it's own health and safety problems. People can think voiding the season is the best option because they care about teams going to the wall.

CONTINUE

ChorltonCharlie wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:04 pm

That's a fairly simplistic view on the situation. Voiding the season is now seen as a much better option for many lower league clubs. For the PL, there's a lot of unanswered questions about the future that depending on what the answers are may end up with voiding the season being much better than any alternative. I keep seeing people saying we'll just play games in shorter timescales next season and similar, but we don't yet know how long this will go on and how many lockdowns we need to go through. We don't know if the government will allow football matches when there's other social distancing in place. We don't know if authorities will allow behind closed door games when that brings it's own health and safety problems. People can think voiding the season is the best option because they care about teams going to the wall.

If Germany, Spain & Italy get their seasons up and running in the next few weeks our government will have no choice but to follow the same route.

This link makes interesting reading.

https://bit.ly/2Xykcyj

Spijed, you just started that with IF. Again, no guarantees. But even IF they get their seasons up and running, why does our government have to do the same? For a start we'd be behind Italy and Spain. The comparison with Germany is pointless because they've not had the same infections and deaths as the UK, Italy and Spain. Then we go onto there being no guarantees that lockdowns won't be put back in place. Then our government needs to decide whether it's morally a good idea for football matches to be played when there's usually medical professionals at games when there's still pressure on the NHS. The police and authorities need to work out how they'd manage if/when closed door games are attended by thousands of fans who want to be there for the buzz of their team winning something or getting promoted. There's so many questions that are not yet answered and the government/authorities can't even start to answer until they have an exit strategy. This is why some of the vocal figures in the game keep talking about looking at the long term and strategies that are based on scenarios that are more worst case. Remember, the PL and EFL were walking around with their fingers in their ears having only postponed two rounds of games only a few weeks ago with plans to start again in April.

ChorltonCharlie wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:35 pm

Spijed, you just started that with IF. Again, no guarantees. But even IF they get their seasons up and running, why does our government have to do the same? For a start we'd be behind Italy and Spain. The comparison with Germany is pointless because they've not had the same infections and deaths as the UK, Italy and Spain. Then we go onto there being no guarantees that lockdowns won't be put back in place. Then our government needs to decide whether it's morally a good idea for football matches to be played when there's usually medical professionals at games when there's still pressure on the NHS. The police and authorities need to work out how they'd manage if/when closed door games are attended by thousands of fans who want to be there for the buzz of their team winning something or getting promoted. There's so many questions that are not yet answered and the government/authorities can't even start to answer until they have an exit strategy. This is why some of the vocal figures in the game keep talking about looking at the long term and strategies that are based on scenarios that are more worst case. Remember, the PL and EFL were walking around with their fingers in their ears having only postponed two rounds of games only a few weeks ago with plans to start again in April.

But if they void this season then it sets a precedent and that makes next season so much easier to cancel if we have another flare up next Feb/March. Then what?

It starts to render sport worthless if you know there is a likelihood of events/seasons not being completed on a regular basis.

Void

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:43 pm

But if they void this season then it sets a precedent and that makes next season so much easier to cancel if we have another flare up next Feb/March. Then what?

It starts to render sport worthless if you know there is a likelihood of events/seasons not being completed on a regular basis.

Unfortunately money talks. I'm not in favour of either, I'm just in favour of wait and see until we know more and the powers that be have really had chance to work out what this really means. My response to you was only in reference to you saying people don't care about clubs going to the wall if they say the season should be voided. Especially when as things stand more clubs could go to the wall if the PL & EFL continue the season whenever they can and behind closed doors.

Play it for the sake of finances, integrity and fairness.

Void and drop all International matches for next season and scrap the league cup and FA cup
No midwinter break always a very bad idea
This should allow a season starting in mid August to run

Not saying it’s right or wrong but would be interested in the rationale of those saying to void it

I can't see how football is gonna be played before June. The lockdown measures we are living in will be in place at least until May bank holiday so another 2 and a half weeks. Players are gonna need at least 3 weeks minimum for a mini pre-season as they'll have to get a couple of games in as friendlies, too. That'll mean finishing the season mid-late July. Is that even possible legally with players out of contract end of June? And this is if clubs can start getting back to training early May. Thankfully, we're out of the relegation fight. This break could well influence teams' performance when they come back.
Bardsley mentioned that they could even have only a couple of weeks between finishing this season and starting the next cutting out the League Cup for next year and also FA cups to have no replays.

Whichever option allows next season to happen.

Those suggesting we write off 20/21 are either shortsighted or plain mental.

Darthlaw wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:24 pm

Whichever option allows next season to happen.

Those suggesting we write off 20/21 are either shortsighted or plain mental.

I wouldn't quite use those terms to describe those who disagree, but I do agree with your first sentence. The priority should be to try to get a normal, fully financed/ sponsored 20 / 21 season. Dragging out this season artificially at the expense of next season is the least good of the various options. (I can't see how EFL teams laying behind closed doors in (say) July can help them financially.)

KateR wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:34 pm

Tom,
no, no, that was not my intent, I was rushing, just it might help to go back and resurrect or get Tony to actually publish the results or offer for any who have not seen yet to complete, not sure if the survey had an end timeline or not.

I’ve bumped the poll to the top

viewtopic.php?style=2&f=2&t=46386

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:33 pm

I wouldn't quite use those terms to describe those who disagree, but I do agree with your first sentence. The priority should be to try to get a normal, fully financed/ sponsored 20 / 21 season. Dragging out this season artificially at the expense of next season is the least good of the various options. (I can't see how EFL teams laying behind closed doors in (say) July can help them financially.)

Why wouldn’t it be fully financed, strikes me as a odd assertion to even imply it could be any different, if it’s decided to Kibosh this season at this particular Point that remainder Whatever’s left will simply be used eating into next season, the amount of televised games left simply gets credited into next season at least as an option for the subscribers to decide or receive a partial refund.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:33 pm

I can't see how EFL teams laying behind closed doors in (say) July can help them financially

And I’m not sure that would be the best form of social distancing either !

Jakub, I think the fully financed refers to if 20/21 would be cancelled, to accomodate finishing this season.

If there's talk of broadcasters looking to clawback funds for this season not being completed, it's safe to assume they won't payout for a season which doesnt take place at all.

Continue, but it’ll be behind closed doors.

Wouldn’t be a surprise if next season commences in empty stadia either.

Money talks... The decision will be made based purely on this.

There will be references to the health and safety of the players being paramount, but in reality it will be money that dictates what happens next. Whatever keeps the most cash flowing will be the call, without a shadow of a doubt.

Incidentally, I don't see Sky flexing too much muscle here... whatever their losses may be in the short term, in the long term they will be swimming in it. Sure they will want some back, but I don't see them risking a very lucrative future for half a season. The usual bi-annual "we are increasing the cost of your viewing package, but it's still great value" letter will just arrive every 3 months. Easy for them to hit us...

Continue the season when the pandemic is ended. This will most likely be next year. It is unlikely that the government will allow sporting events with thousands of people attending before it is safe.

Darthlaw wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:53 pm

Jakub, I think the fully financed refers to if 20/21 would be cancelled, to accomodate finishing this season.

If there's talk of broadcasters looking to clawback funds for this season not being completed, it's safe to assume they won't payout for a season which doesnt take place at all.

That's obviously what I mean't - although I wasn't just thinking of the entire season being lost.
I was also thinking in terms of it possibly being shortened, so less sponsorship, less TV games, (especially for "lesser" clubs), less match day revenue, prize money etc etc.
(That's why I used the term "fully" financed)

Nil, it's likely if the 20/21 season was shortened, the broadcasters would cry breach of contract and look for a renegotiation of royalties fairly sharpish.

This is why (for me) it's key that next season is not disturbed. Once broadcasters have an 'escape' from the current situation they'll be making sure their losses are absorbed by anyone else but them, whether that be their consumers or their suppliers.

As I've said before, if next season is disrupted enough to reach cancellation, it's feasible for the European Elite teams to form a super league for one season (at least) where the royalties of any TV deal will be shared amongst them. Long have the european's whinged about the money in the English game. This is their chance to grab a piece of the action.

Not going to quote your post Darth, but that's pretty much exactly my view.
I'd like to see this season finished, but not if it ruins next season and jeopardises the entire future of the English game - as you hypothesise.

Darthlaw wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:53 pm

This is why (for me) it's key that next season is not disturbed.

It's impossible as things stand for next season to be undisturbed. How on earth can football kick-off in August, with crowds, and a schedule of full matches when there is no vaccine, let alone any treatments in sight?

Do people really think that come mid August that we'll be able to go into Turf Moor, feeling confident that the person next to you isn't infected?

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:01 pm

Not going to quote your post Darth, but that's pretty much exactly my view.
I'd like to see this season finished, but not if it ruins next season and jeopardises the entire future of the English game - as you hypothesise.

Has were in the here and now we continue with this season.How can you Ruin something that hasnt Happened?

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:12 pm

It's impossible as things stand for next season to be undisturbed. How on earth can football kick-off in August, with crowds, and a schedule of full matches when there is no vaccine, let alone any treatments in sight?

Do people really think that come mid August that we'll be able to go into Turf Moor, feeling confident that the person next to you isn't infected?

It can start behind closed doors for me, by all means.

If football hasn't restarted by August, it has bigger things to worry about than this or next seasons money. 92 league clubs would conceivably be halved in numbers.

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:15 pm

Has were in the here and now we continue with this season.How can you Ruin something that hasnt Happened?

Leaving aside this particular case, it's perfectly feasible to ruin something before it happens.

Darthlaw wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:18 pm

It can start behind closed doors for me, by all means.

If football hasn't restarted by August, it has bigger things to worry about than this or next seasons money. 92 league clubs would conceivably be halved in numbers.

But what happens if there is no vaccine come next Feb/Mar and there is another flare up. What would you do next if we have to have another lockdown?

Cancel this season and the precedent will be set for future cancellations.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:21 pm

Leaving aside this particular case, it's perfectly feasible to ruin something before it happens.

Didn’t I say something about folk being shortsighted?

Spijed wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:24 pm

But what happens if there is no vaccine come next Feb/Mar and there is another flare up. What would you do next if we have to have another lockdown?

Cancel this season and the precedent will be set for future cancellations.

Yes, if the delay was substantial enough, I’d cancel it again or are you suggesting we delay finishing a season again? 20/21 season finishes in 2023?

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:21 pm

Leaving aside this particular case, it's perfectly feasible to ruin something before it happens.

But it's this particular case were talking about which is relevant.

Completing the season or voiding the season will upset someone. But completing the season will upset fewer people than voiding it would. Really, the only people advocating voiding it are those in/ very nearly in the relegation zones of their respective leagues. Therefore, complete the season.

Let's just hope it isn't too long until we can visit the Turf again.

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:29 pm

But it's this particular case were talking about which is relevant.

Yes, so this "particular case" would be the "something" that you could ruin if a wrong - even if well-intentioned - decision were made.

Darthlaw wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:28 pm

Yes, if the delay was substantial enough, I’d cancel it again or are you suggesting we delay finishing a season again? 20/21 season finishes in 2023?

If we were to cancel this season, and then have to cancel next year as well how can you have proper sport knowing that as each season goes by it could all count for nothing?

Continue. And in short order, for me.

If you can keep supermarkets, warehouses, hospitals, etc. open, you can get a game of football on behind closed doors.

I’m not saying you can do it with no risk, but very limited risk, particularly given the age and fitness levels of players and staff generally.

Train with sensible social distancing in place, test players and staff before matches, players travel to matches individually in kit, warm up on the pitch (no changing rooms), leave individually, get tested afterwards.

There would need to be an agreed rule that if X number of players from one team test positive pre-match, it’s postponed. Managers appoint 2x deputies from their coaching staff in case they test positive and contact via phone allowed throughout the match in that circumstance.

Not ideal but better than waiting until next year (when a vaccine/cure may be available).

PL should create an app. All non-Sky/BT games available on the app live, staggered throughout the day so fans can watch a few. ST/ticket holders get free streaming. Others pay per game. Adds shown throughout. Funds to the home club.

If law courts can get up and running through this - the most traditional, change averse institutions on the planet - organisations as dynamic as the PL and TV companies should be able to work this out in a way that is proportional to the risk.

Don’t think we’ll see the inside of a stadium until there is a vaccine or cure though.