With most of the currently opened shops only accepting card/contact less payments on the basis that cash can be a mode of virus transfer, anyone else think that this is the beginning of the end for physical money transactions.

Nope. I expect it will be around for a few more years, it will just become less commonly used.

More than likely,it's been on the cards for the last decade or so,i rarely use cash these days anyway,even before the CV hit.Cards are much more convenient,saves you fiddling about for coins and holding the queue's up,and with the emergence of machines in most stores now,it's only a matter of time before we become a cashless society.

I'll hang on to my cash as long as I possibly can. Never had a Credit Card an havent had a debit card for 11 years. Just another big brother idea that's had the Lambs following the sheep.I do have an oyster card though.

I went to Stockholm last year and that is pretty much a cashless city.

The only worry is when you are going on a night out because the cash in my pocket is my limit on what I’m drinking

Johnny ?

Pat ?

Funkydrummer wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 5:19 pm

Johnny ?

Pat ?

Pat's still around I believe..

I don't use cash now. Contact less is far easier when going out for a few drinks than scratting around for change.

Cash is dirty and a health risk, whilst we have the virus cash should be banned

Hmmmm Cash has been around for a helluva lot longer than Covid19 ...

I work for a building society. Management is suggesting cash transactions are likely to be stopped forever.

Top Claret wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 5:24 pm

Cash is dirty and a health risk, whilst we have the virus cash should be banned

In which case, a significant percentage of the population would have no means of paying for anything. (Not that I disagree with your general point)

Top Claret wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 5:24 pm

I don't use cash now. Contact less is far easier when going out for a few drinks than scratting around for change.

Cash is dirty and a health risk, whilst we have the virus cash should be banned

You wouldn't say no to a couple of sack loads being dropped on your doorstep though.

TheOriginalLongsider wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 5:30 pm

I work for a building society. Management is suggesting cash transactions are likely to be stopped forever.

If it does Happen....I reckon it will be when Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth runs her final race.

The end of cash?

It's possible but it's also premature.

Cash still has the potential for something that a monetary transfer does not - it has an inherent worth.

I'm genuinely scared of a financial collapse that could see the "value" of this digital "money" disappear entirely. If that happens (and it's not unfeasible) then we are all going to find ourselves in an undignified state of desperation and all of us living to survive.

I'm an optimist really and don't think it likely but of all the Prophesies of Doom (nuclear war, global "warming", death by plague etc etc) this is the one I think is far most likely to actually happen.

I remember some of the dinosaurs on here comically claiming that there wasn’t a demand for card payments at Turf Moor.

I only use cash at my barbers and the car wash. I think as a society we could comfortably cope without it.

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 5:15 pm

I'll hang on to my cash as long as I possibly can. Never had a Credit Card an havent had a debit card for 11 years. Just another big brother idea that's had the Lambs following the sheep.I do have an oyster card though.

You're just hanging onto yours until Tesco’s reduces their Bene again

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 6:05 pm

I think as a society we could comfortably cope without it.

Maybe, (in fact I'm sure you're correct long term), but I reckon we're quite a while from that being possible. For a start there are all the people who can't have a bank account for one reason or another, and then there are issues to address around vulnerable and elderly people, security, and lack of internet access for many people.
I dare say that all these things can be addressed and solved, but in the articles that I've read the general feeling is that it will be a while off yet.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 6:14 pm

Maybe, (in fact I'm sure you're correct long term), but I reckon we're quite a while from that being possible. For a start there are all the people who can't have a bank account for one reason or another, and then there are issues to address around vulnerable and elderly people, security, and lack of internet access for many people.
I dare say that all these things can be addressed and solved, but in the articles that I've read the general feeling is that it will be a while off yet.

Sure, you couldn’t scrap cash overnight but I don’t really see any significant issues.

Who can’t have a bank account? Genuine question as I would have thought anybody would be eligible to open an account.

Not sure why internet access would be necessary either. I’m sure we all managed with our bank cards before we used internet banking.

In terms of security I would say it is safer for old people to have a bank card that only they know the pin code to, than thousands of pounds in an underwear drawer.

How would you give little presents to your children or grandchildren ?

How would they go to the shop to buy a lolly, for instance ?

As for old folk with only a card, the unscrupulous would beat the sh!t out of them until
they gave them the pin. OR, they would march them to the ATM to get some money.
There is the potential of cleaning them out, rather than thieving the few quid they have in their wallet or purse.

Would you really pay for a packet of chewing gum with a card ? Keeping track of your finances
would also be a nightmare for a lot of people.

On the plus side, it would stop a lot of "back handers" and black marketeering. At least in it's
present form.

How the hell would I pay for small jobs to get done cash in hand if there was no cash?

How would you get cash back?

Funkydrummer wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 6:45 pm

How would you give little presents to your children or grandchildren ?

How would they go to the shop to buy a lolly, for instance ?

As for old folk with only a card, the unscrupulous would beat the sh!t out of them until
they gave them the pin. OR, they would march them to the ATM to get some money.
There is the potential of cleaning them out, rather than thieving the few quid they have in their wallet or purse.

Would you really pay for a packet of chewing gum with a card ? Keeping track of your finances
would also be a nightmare for a lot of people.

On the plus side, it would stop a lot of "back handers" and black marketeering. At least in it's
present form.

Tackling these one at a time. Maybe give your grandchildren something other than cash, a voucher perhaps. Sending them to the shop to buy a lolly isn’t really a serious issue is it. If it was they could always use your contactless card.

Old people already have bank cards so this wouldn’t increase the amount of old people being beaten. And they wouldn’t be marched to the cash point to withdraw cash as there would be no cash. As I said, if anything surely the lack of cash that they keep in their house would make them less susceptible to crime.

Yes, I pay for a pack of chewing gum with a card. Why wouldn’t i? Its quicker than using cash and I don’t carry cash in any case.

It doesn’t make keeping track of cash more difficult. Some people have Monzo cards which give you a text message with a balance update every time you make a purchase.

Obviously it’d be a change for a lot of people, but there is nothing to prevent a cashless society other than people being stuck in their ways.

Wherever there us tax to be avoided...there will be cash.

Funkydrummer wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 6:45 pm

How would you give little presents to your children or grandchildren ?

How would they go to the shop to buy a lolly, for instance ?

As for old folk with only a card, the unscrupulous would beat the sh!t out of them until
they gave them the pin. OR, they would march them to the ATM to get some money.
There is the potential of cleaning them out, rather than thieving the few quid they have in their wallet or purse.

Would you really pay for a packet of chewing gum with a card ? Keeping track of your finances
would also be a nightmare for a lot of people.

On the plus side, it would stop a lot of "back handers" and black marketeering. At least in it's
present form.

Funky you were doing brilliant....then ballsed it up at the end. F....ng plus side!!

Firthy wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 6:50 pm

How the hell would I pay for small jobs to get done cash in hand if there was no cash?

Exactly I'm not decorating someones living room for a sack of potatoes an a bottle of pimlicos Bene.

Cash won't disappear.

Going cashless means legalising every crook in the country. Every drug pusher will have a bank account, collect their deal by card & submit a tax return at the end of the year claiming he was a window cleaner etc.

Everyone will have to have a bank account ( no mean feat ), everyone will have to be literate ( impossible ),
Everyone will be forced to use a card / phone, again impossible.

Cash is king. Long live the King.

Funkydrummer wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 6:45 pm

How would you give little presents to your children or grandchildren ?

How would they go to the shop to buy a lolly, for instance ?

As for old folk with only a card, the unscrupulous would beat the sh!t out of them until
they gave them the pin. OR, they would march them to the ATM to get some money.
There is the potential of cleaning them out, rather than thieving the few quid they have in their wallet or purse.

Would you really pay for a packet of chewing gum with a card ? Keeping track of your finances
would also be a nightmare for a lot of people.

On the plus side, it would stop a lot of "back handers" and black marketeering. At least in it's
present form.

I work in a shop on a Sunday and yes people will buy things that cost less than a quid and pay by card.

It would stop cash in hand work, but there is probably another way round it, transfer direct to a personal account instead of business one.

Receipts can be used to keep track of finances, that's how most people do it.

Some ‘older’ people can’t renember a pin. I mean this seriously. It’s not a case of some people ‘being stuck in their ways’ and they would worry if they couldn’t see the money.

Blackrod wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 8:25 pm

Some ‘older’ people can’t renember a pin. I mean this seriously. It’s not a case of some people ‘being stuck in their ways’ and they would worry if they couldn’t see the money.

What's a pin ?

Cash always speaks more than contactless/digital crap
Show me the money
who wants some?

Blackrod wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 8:25 pm

Some ‘older’ people can’t renember a pin. I mean this seriously. It’s not a case of some people ‘being stuck in their ways’ and they would worry if they couldn’t see the money.

I regularly see people of various ages with their multiple pins written on a bit of paper in their purses /wallets for their half dozen or more cards

Pimlico_Claret wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 4:30 pm

With most of the currently opened shops only accepting card/contact less payments on the basis that cash can be a mode of virus transfer, anyone else think that this is the beginning of the end for physical money transactions.

How will folk pay for their drugs and stuff off the back of a lorry?

Aclaret wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 8:32 pm

What's a pin ?

If you had two, it could be a different story!

Watch Dirty money on Netflix that will give you some idea as to who will suffer if theres no cash in society. The main wealth as already been divided and quartered.etc.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 6:32 pm

Sure, you couldn’t scrap cash overnight but I don’t really see any significant issues.

Who can’t have a bank account? Genuine question as I would have thought anybody would be eligible to open an account.

There are several categories of people who can't currently open a bank account and even more who can't have a card for various reasons.
One obvious issue is that you invariably have to prove your identity and address. There's a significant number of people who have problems with this, especially the latter.
A second category is people newly arrived in the UK - though this should be much less of a problem
But also if you have a history of fraud (or even have a poor credit rating) this can currently be a barrier to opening an account.
There are other categories too, plus of course children under the age of (I think) 13.
As I said, none of these are insuperable, but we're nowhere near geared up for cashless yet.

In the banking-related area I work in I was told I'd never see a cheque after 1990.

dougcollins wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 10:20 pm

In the banking-related area I work in I was told I'd never see a cheque after 1990.

Tbh I dont think I've had a cheque book since the nineties.

Without cash it'll mess up having a game of Don or 5's & 3's

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 6:05 pm

I remember some of the dinosaurs on here comically claiming that there wasn’t a demand for card payments at Turf Moor.

I only use cash at my barbers and the car wash. I think as a society we could comfortably cope without it.

90% of transactions can be managed without cash. But what about the other 10%?

I have seen it said, quite seriously, that everyone should get a smartphone with internet access and for as little as £200 per year they could run a banking app which would enable them to receive cash as well as pay it. Wow. £200 per year so that other people who don't like cash can do without it.

But how else do you cope with the situation where I go to the bar and buy dinner for me and a colleague and the colleague wants to pay me back? Both go to the bar and pay separately? What's the pont when cash works perfectly well?

Just a thought about old people - they might remember 1 PIN number, but they are expected to remember more than that. Debit card, credit card, keysafe security, spare credit card perhaps - I can't remember above four. Older people will struggle badly.

dsr wrote: ↑

Fri May 01, 2020 11:23 pm

90% of transactions can be managed without cash. But what about the other 10%?

I have seen it said, quite seriously, that everyone should get a smartphone with internet access and for as little as £200 per year they could run a banking app which would enable them to receive cash as well as pay it. Wow. £200 per year so that other people who don't like cash can do without it.

But how else do you cope with the situation where I go to the bar and buy dinner for me and a colleague and the colleague wants to pay me back? Both go to the bar and pay separately? What's the pont when cash works perfectly well?

Just a thought about old people - they might remember 1 PIN number, but they are expected to remember more than that. Debit card, credit card, keysafe security, spare credit card perhaps - I can't remember above four. Older people will struggle badly.

Not sure where you’ve got £200 per year from. Sooner or later everyone will have internet, but you don’t need internet to use a debit card so what is your point?

As for sharing a tab at a bar or restaurant, it’s even easier without cash. I can pay someone in literally 10 seconds through my phone by mobile payment. And I don’t need to go to the cash point, withdraw cash, round it up to the nearest £10 or wait for change. Someone made the point about paying for chewing gum with a card. Is it really easier to get £10 out of a cash machine and then get £9.45 in change or to tap your phone or debit card on a machine?

In terms of PIN numbers. Contactless payment already means that people don’t need to worry about PIN numbers for small purchases. But there will obviously be developments in this area such as retina and finger print scanners which are already used on mobile phones. Like I say, the only thing holding this back is people being stuck in their ways.

And system reliability. From time to time parts of the system break down - mainly telephone - then what?

Bullabill wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 12:19 am

And system reliability. From time to time parts of the system break down - mainly telephone - then what?

How much cash are you stockpiling? If there is a ‘system’ issue then that would affect people regardless.

Still not seen a real barrier to becoming a cashless society. In fact, amusingly the scenario with the grandchild not being able to go to the shop to buy a lollipop has probably been the best example.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 12:25 am

How much cash are you stockpiling? If there is a ‘system’ issue then that would affect people regardless.

Still not seen a real barrier to becoming a cashless society. In fact, amusingly the scenario with the grandchild not being able to go to the shop to buy a lollipop has probably been the best example.

That's because you are not using any imagination. When you think a bit more closely, what you are actually saying is that you don't want cash and if you don't want it, why should anyone else.

£200 per year is an estimate of a mobile phone contract with internet. How much does it actually cost? Because without it, I can't receive money in your utopian world.

dsr wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 1:00 am

That's because you are not using any imagination. When you think a bit more closely, what you are actually saying is that you don't want cash and if you don't want it, why should anyone else.

£200 per year is an estimate of a mobile phone contract with internet. How much does it actually cost? Because without it, I can't receive money in your utopian world.

Not at all. It doesn’t bother me that people use cash, why would I care? I just don’t need to use cash and think that as a society we also don’t really need to. Obviously people will want to use it but they are generally the people who are stuck in their ways and not receptive to change. As I pointed out, there hasn’t been a logical point out forward as to why cash is needed.

Why does someone need a mobile phone contract with internet? I’m not being facetious, I honestly don’t know what the relevance is. You don’t need a mobile phone or internet to receive money. I’m sure people were being paid by BACS before the internet and mobile phones were commonplace.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 1:06 am

Not at all. It doesn’t bother me that people use cash, why would I care? I just don’t need to use cash and think that as a society we also don’t really need to. Obviously people will want to use it but they are generally the people who are stuck in their ways and not receptive to change. As I pointed out, there hasn’t been a logical point out forward as to why cash is needed.

Why does someone need a mobile phone contract with internet? I’m not being facetious, I honestly don’t know what the relevance is. You don’t need a mobile phone or internet to receive money. I’m sure people were being paid by BACS before the internet and mobile phones were commonplace.

BACS? If I go to Oddies and get you a cake while I'm there, you would seriously try and pay me by BACS? Not in my experience.

Horse racing. How much would it slow things down at the betting points of the bookies pay winnings by BACS?

Presents. How does the little old lady give my nephews and nieces a pound apiece by BACS?

Children. How do children learn about money if there isn't any cash?

Charity. How does a small charity collect small amounts of cash - the £1 admission at the door, the coins in the collecting box?

Here's a reason why cash is still a good thing. It doesn't break down. Mobile phones break down, banking systems break down, credit cards break down. Cash doesn't break down. Not all of us are entirely happy that internet banking is 100% safe and 100% reliable. Call me a Luddite if you will, but there have been more than once in the last year or two when at least one bank had computer failure and people couldn't get their money. Cash doesn't so that.

dsr wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 1:22 am

BACS? If I go to Oddies and get you a cake while I'm there, you would seriously try and pay me by BACS? Not in my experience.

Horse racing. How much would it slow things down at the betting points of the bookies pay winnings by BACS?

Presents. How does the little old lady give my nephews and nieces a pound apiece by BACS?

Children. How do children learn about money if there isn't any cash?

Charity. How does a small charity collect small amounts of cash - the £1 admission at the door, the coins in the collecting box?

Here's a reason why cash is still a good thing. It doesn't break down. Mobile phones break down, banking systems break down, credit cards break down. Cash doesn't break down. Not all of us are entirely happy that internet banking is 100% safe and 100% reliable. Call me a Luddite if you will, but there have been more than once in the last year or two when at least one bank had computer failure and people couldn't get their money. Cash doesn't so that.

I just don’t get this. I don’t know what Oddies is, but if you want to split a bill with someone then just ask the cashier to split the bill. I think you’re over complicating this.

Who cares about the betting points at horse racing? Horse racing betting must be 99% online already.

Re your nephews and nieces, maybe they just don’t get their pound a piece (pointless present anyway) and get given something more meaningful.

Charity - why can’t they use a card machine like everyone else? Or a device that lets people donate electronically. Thus ensuring a paper trail of the donations which is surely an advantage.

With regards your last point, this isn’t about internet banking. The problems you mention with banks having computer failures would happen regardless. Unless you have a cache of cash (intentional) under the bed, which I presume most people don’t, then people still wouldn’t be able to get their money.

It seems like you’re trying to find reasons why a cashless society wouldn’t work, and your weak examples (horse racing bookies and presents for nephews) is only reinforcing my point.

Rileybobs wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 1:35 am

I just don’t get this. I don’t know what Oddies is, but if you want to split a bill with someone then just ask the cashier to split the bill. I think you’re over complicating this.

Who cares about the betting points at horse racing? Horse racing betting must be 99% online already.

Re your nephews and nieces, maybe they just don’t get their pound a piece (pointless present anyway) and get given something more meaningful.

Charity - why can’t they use a card machine like everyone else? Or a device that lets people donate electronically. Thus ensuring a paper trail of the donations which is surely an advantage.

With regards your last point, this isn’t about internet banking. The problems you mention with banks having computer failures would happen regardless. Unless you have a cache of cash (intentional) under the bed, which I presume most people don’t, then people still wouldn’t be able to get their money.

It seems like you’re trying to find reasons why a cashless society wouldn’t work, and your weak examples (horse racing bookies and presents for nephews) is only reinforcing my point.

The point is that perhaps 5% of current transactions couldn't happen without cash, and the benefit of stopping those transactions is not worth the inconvenience.

Oddie's is a cake shop. There was a clue in that I was buying a cake. How does "splitting the bill" help? To make it very, very simple:
1. I leave my office to go and buy my dinner.
2. My pal asks me to get him a cake.
3. I go to Oddies and get my sandwich and two cakes. I had over a fiver and get a few coins in change.
4. I go back to the office and hand over the cake to my pal.
5. He says "how much do I owe you?".

What happens next?

dsr wrote: ↑

Sat May 02, 2020 1:45 am

The point is that perhaps 5% of current transactions couldn't happen without cash, and the benefit of stopping those transactions is not worth the inconvenience.

Oddie's is a cake shop. There was a clue in that I was buying a cake. How does "splitting the bill" help? To make it very, very simple:
1. I leave my office to go and buy my dinner.
2. My pal asks me to get him a cake.
3. I go to Oddies and get my sandwich and two cakes. I had over a fiver and get a few coins in change.
4. I go back to the office and hand over the cake to my pal.
5. He says "how much do I owe you?".

What happens next?

You say “you owe me £1.50”. Your pal pulls out his phone and in 20 seconds the £1.50 is back in your bank account.

Is that more difficult for either party? Your pal doesn’t need the correct change, or any at all, and you’re not left with a load of coins. I’ve done it loads of times in my office when someone has picked me up a bacon butty etc.

Going back to your previous post, you certainly are being a Luddite.