Here we go again.

I think the one thing we can say with some certainty is that Boxing Day 2018 v Everton was Gibson's first and LAST league appearance for Burnley.

£20m in this market i don't think so,he's decent but unproven at the top level.

Can see this as another Nakki Wells situation. Anyone interested in him can say that he has only played what 3 PL games since joining ?? Puts them in a strong position-so loan seems a good compromise.Hopefully he plays well enough whilst on loan (like Wells did)to generate a sensible selling price. But to have him off our premises training with another club is ridiculous

The whole Gibson situation has been a complete mess really hasn't it? Shame because I thought he'd be a terrific signing when we got him.

Even when he signed for us, I'm not sure he ever really "left" Middlesbrough though. He was certainly still constantly posting about them on social media and it seemed almost from the off that he was longing to be back there.

On the pitch, he's probably been justifiably frustrated about the lack of opportunities. That said, what we have seen of him hasn't suggested he's even close to the standard of Mee/Tarkowski. Be best for everyone when he moves on this summer.

Can Middlesbrough afford to take him back properly? I doubt it.

What a shame this has been though. I thought he'd been hard done to in his time here to be honest, but the way he seemingly threw his toys out of the pram was very poor. Didn't we suddenly pick up a few great results and performances as soon as he left the building? Possibly not a coincidence.

Trade straight swop for Fry

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 12:04 pm

Trade straight swop for Fry

Not a bad shout Woodley, can't see Boro agreeing to that though.

We do need to get Gibson off the books this summer, he's burned his bridges here now, and he'll only be considering for selection in an extreme injury crisis even Kevin Long will be ahead of him in the pecking order, the epitome of a model pro, the complete contrast to Gibson who threw a tantrum cos he didn't get a move away, Not the type of individual we want or need at BFC thanks very much.

Whilst outwardly the Gibson signing has proved disastrous, it may well have pushed the performance level of Ben Mee up, given the standard of competition he had, this of course is unquantifiable.

Been unlucky Gibson but hey ho.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 12:10 pm

Not a bad shout Woodley, can't see Boro agreeing to that though.

We do need to get Gibson off the books this summer, he's burned his bridges here now, and he'll only be considering for selection in an extreme injury crisis even Kevin Long will be ahead of him in the pecking order, the epitome of a model pro, the complete contrast to Gibson who threw a tantrum cos he didn't get a move away, Not the type of individual we want or need at BFC thanks very much.

I don’t think he’d be considered now even in an extreme injury crisis.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 1:00 pm

I don’t think he’d be considered now even in an extreme injury crisis.

Probably not so we may as well cut our losses, i can't see us getting anywhere near the £15m we shelled out for him.

Does anyone know if that transfer fee has been paid in full, or do we still owe instalments?

Look it happens with every club some signings don't work out for a variety of reasons, time for Gibson to move on it's not going to work out for him at Burnley, but he's still young enough to make his mark elsewhere, he does need to knuckle down and show he's willing to be part of a team unit though.

I doubt we have fully paid the fee for him yet? hopefully we csn get abit of cash back hes never really had a good run to be fair as mee n tarks have been outstanding

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 1:10 pm

Probably not so we may as well cut our losses, i can't see us getting anywhere near the £15m we shelled out for him.

Does anyone know if that transfer fee has been paid in full, or do we still owe instalments?

Look it happens with every club some signings don't work out for a variety of reasons, time for Gibson to move on it's not going to work out for him at Burnley, but he's still young enough to make his mark elsewhere, he does need to knuckle down and show he's willing to be part of a team unit though.

Not sure when what happened did happen but it’s pretty obvious he won’t be coming back in. Looked as though he’d be a good signing although he wouldn’t have been here had the Mawson deal gone through.

He needs to move on and he needs to fully commit to his next club. I know he supports Boro but, as someone said further up the thread, you would think at times that he’s never left them.

Can't see boro forking out the figure we'd be looking for but you never know with his uncle being at the helm perhaps a deal somewhere could be struck.

He'd have to be willing to take a big pay cut you'd imagine.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 2:28 pm

He'd have to be willing to take a big pay cut you'd imagine.

Almost certainly but at least he'd be guaranteed of 1st team footy.

beddie wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 2:23 pm

Can't see boro forking out the figure we'd be looking for but you never know with his uncle being at the helm perhaps a deal somewhere could be struck.

Middlesbrough sold him and two others in the summer of 2017 to comply with FFP - can't imagine that, for the same reasons, they'd be able to take him back unless they do some other deals.

We will surely lose out here, no one will be willing to pay what we did for a player who's barely kicked a ball for 2 seasons, and has been banished from his club and told to train elsewhere.

Gibson will have to take a pay cut youd think to move anywhere, but if he is stubborn enough we will be in mo position to play hard ball with a fee, and maybe also after give him something in cash terms to make him move on.

A crazy situation we find ourselves in when 99% of people thought we had got a great player, a leader, a potential England centre half for a bargain price.

Itll be one of those Burnley mysteries that we may never know what went wrong or why it didnt work out.

MACCA wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 4:07 pm

Itll be one of those Burnley mysteries that we may never know what went wrong or why it didnt work out.

Not sure it's a great mystery. Honestly think it's just a case that it hasn't worked out.

We signed a player that looked a potentially very good signing at the time. He just hasn't been able to force his way into the team. Given SD rarely makes too many changes to the team anyway, and the form of Mee and Tarkowski has in the main been very good, that isn't too surprising. The only time he might have possibly got a chance to come in was the first half of last season but he was injured with a hernia at the time wasn't he? Not surprisingly he hasn't been too happy, but other players here like Tarkowski and Pope waited patiently for their chance and are reaping the rewards. Just a shame that Gibson wasn't of that mindset.

matttheclaret wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 4:34 pm

the form of Mee and Tarkowski has in the main been very good,

That myth is getting as bad as the 20m Andre Gray fee, or the master stroke in bringing McNeil in.

Ben Mee was in very poor form in the early parts of the 2018 season, if Gibson wasnt going to get a run then, he never was.

Would any manager drop their club captain?
Not many, and with SD being more stubborn/loyal than most it wasn't going to happen.

Not surprising the player was miffed, he was or has been given a chance.
IF we are being honest Gibson was a better prospect and better footballer than Ben Mee, I'm sure once Dyched he would have become even better and been knocking on the England squad door.

Sadly due to not getting that chance no one will ever know.

Look at what happened to Vydra once he got the chance that most thought and could see he deserved.
Who knows what a player Gibson could have been given the chance, if he was purely just as good as Mee, we would gave had a better footballer in the side without losing a leader.

Gibsons fell foul to Mee signing a new contract and then getting the club captain role.
Not getting a fair crack caused him to kick off, which is fair enough, least it showed ( like Vydra when he was going public ) that he isnt happy sitting on a bench picking up wages, and believes in his ability

Hopefully we've held him back enough that he doesn't show us how good he could have been by turning in great displays when he moves on, as a few on here wouldn't ever be able to see or admit there might have been an error on Mr Dyches tactics, loyalty or handling of a player

Wasn't Gibson injured at that point you mention though?

MACCA wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 5:03 pm

That myth is getting as bad as the 20m Andre Gray fee, or the master stroke in bringing McNeil in.

Ben Mee was in very poor form in the early parts of the 2018 season, if Gibson wasnt going to get a run then, he never was.

Would any manager drop their club captain?
Not many, and with SD being more stubborn/loyal than most it wasn't going to happen.

Not surprising the player was miffed, he was or has been given a chance.
IF we are being honest Gibson was a better prospect and better footballer than Ben Mee, I'm sure once Dyched he would have become even better and been knocking on the England squad door.

Sadly due to not getting that chance no one will ever know.

Look at what happened to Vydra once he got the chance that most thought and could see he deserved.
Who knows what a player Gibson could have been given the chance, if he was purely just as good as Mee, we would gave had a better footballer in the side without losing a leader.

Gibsons fell foul to Mee signing a new contract and then getting the club captain role.
Not getting a fair crack caused him to kick off, which is fair enough, least it showed ( like Vydra when he was going public ) that he isnt happy sitting on a bench picking up wages, and believes in his ability

Hopefully we've held him back enough that he doesn't show us how good he could have been by turning in great displays when he moves on, as a few on here wouldn't ever be able to see or admit there might have been an error on Mr Dyches tactics, loyalty or handling of a player

You refer to Mee being in poor form early in the 2018/19 season. Whether he was or he wasn’t, Gibson was out injured having two bouts of surgery so the only alternative was Long.

Gibson didn’t fall foul to Mee signing a new contract. Although it was announced the day after Gibson signed, the Mee deal had already been done.

You seem to think it was fair enough him kicking off because of not getting a fair crack. When did he not get a fair crack? What justifies him kicking off? Do you know what happened?

No idea what you are on about with tactics. Not sure how any inclusion of Gibson would change tactics but one thing I am certain of is there has never been a time since he got fit that anyone would have left out either Tarkowski or Mee.

If Gibson had failed to displace Graham Branch and Arthur Gnohere, then it might well have looked as if something was wrong. Failing to displace Ben Mee and James Tarkowski is no disgrace to anyone.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 5:26 pm

You refer to Mee being in poor form early in the 2018/19 season. Whether he was or he wasn’t, Gibson was out injured having two bouts of surgery so the only alternative was Long.

Gibson didn’t fall foul to Mee signing a new contract. Although it was announced the day after Gibson signed, the Mee deal had already been done.

You seem to think it was fair enough him kicking off because of not getting a fair crack. When did he not get a fair crack? What justifies him kicking off? Do you know what happened?

No idea what you are on about with tactics. Not sure how any inclusion of Gibson would change tactics but one thing I am certain of is there has never been a time since he got fit that anyone would have left out either Tarkowski or Mee.

We are often told transfers take a long while to sort, I'm sure the gibson incoming wasnt any different, so the fact me had signed before Gibson, we may have been too far down the line with it to go back.
Also very convenient announcement that Mee signs after
Gibson arrives, maybe we used that leverage to persuade Mee and Gibson separately.

I've only heard hear say as to what happened regards Gibson, and there's no reason to disbelieve it as it adds up, but that's not fact and a forum isnt the place to be relaying things I cant be sure is true, when it can tarnish reputations.

But if I'm the only one who thinks Gibson hasnt had a fair crack of the whip, and everyone else thinks he's been treated fairly and fully professionally then that's fair enough.

But I'm of the opinion, theres not many footballers out there who are undroppable, and should be guaranteed a place regardless of form.

I'm sure itll all come out in the wash, and I'm sure it'll be 100% Ben Gibsons fault regardless

Let's not forget, against Olympiakos (where he got sent off, and lost 1-3) he was bobbins. Player ratings and comments:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31975

Against Sunderland at home in the cup (where we lost 1-3) he was bobbins. Again, see player ratings and comments:
https://www.uptheclarets.com/messageboa ... hp?t=41565

Against Everton at home (where we got hammered 1-5), his only premier League start. He scored that day, but still came away with ratings of 5/6, and was subbed.
viewtopic.php?t=35322

Forgot to add the FA cup games, think there was 2, but there like reserve fixtures so no real interest in how they went (even though one of them saw us concede another 5 goals with him playing).

Of course, the player ratings aren't any kind of concrete proof that he isn't/wasn't up to it, but to only be involved in 3 games resulting in W0, D0, L3, with 11 Goals against, whilst picking up 2 Yellow cards and 1 Red card, and only completing 1 game......well, I doubt he'll be missed.

MACCA wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 6:50 pm

We are often told transfers take a long while to sort, I'm sure the gibson incoming wasnt any different, so the fact me had signed before Gibson, we may have been too far down the line with it to go back.
Also very convenient announcement that Mee signs after
Gibson arrives, maybe we used that leverage to persuade Mee and Gibson separately.

I've only heard hear say as to what happened regards Gibson, and there's no reason to disbelieve it as it adds up, but that's not fact and a forum isnt the place to be relaying things I cant be sure is true, when it can tarnish reputations.

But if I'm the only one who thinks Gibson hasnt had a fair crack of the whip, and everyone else thinks he's been treated fairly and fully professionally then that's fair enough.

But I'm of the opinion, theres not many footballers out there who are undroppable, and should be guaranteed a place regardless of form.

I'm sure itll all come out in the wash, and I'm sure it'll be 100% Ben Gibsons fault regardless

We know the Gibson one was done quickly because we know we moved to get him after Mawson changed his mind.

On the subject of Gibson not getting a fair crack of the whip. Could you actually point out when you think he should have been brought in to replace either Tarkowski or Mee? I think generally they’ve been outstanding in the period since Gibson got fit.

Perhaps we might have ultimately got better value and a better player, had we shopped abroad, with a similar amount of money to spend.

It would appear that despite our in-depth knowledge of players local to us, that it still doesn’t guarantee us acquiring a ‘good egg’.

OK, it’s with hindsight, but it goes to show that whoever we are signing, there’s a risk that they won’t settle into the group / be of the level expected. Should we therefore be a little more prepared to take such risks with players from further afield?

Watford were rumoured to want Gibson.
Dyche was rumoured to want Gray back.
Bob's your auntie's live-in lover.

MACCA wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 4:07 pm

We will surely lose out here, no one will be willing to pay what we did for a player who's barely kicked a ball for 2 seasons, and has been banished from his club and told to train elsewhere.

Gibson will have to take a pay cut youd think to move anywhere, but if he is stubborn enough we will be in mo position to play hard ball with a fee, and maybe also after give him something in cash terms to make him move on.

A crazy situation we find ourselves in when 99% of people thought we had got a great player, a leader, a potential England centre half for a bargain price.

Itll be one of those Burnley mysteries that we may never know what went wrong or why it didnt work out.

We will lose out cash wise - from an accounting perspective as of June 30th Gibson will be valued 7.5m, if the club have followed their recent practice the final payment on his transfer will be due at around the same time - no idea what but will not be more than £5m

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 7:17 pm

We know the Gibson one was done quickly because we know we moved to get him after Mawson changed his mind.

On the subject of Gibson not getting a fair crack of the whip. Could you actually point out when you think he should have been brought in to replace either Tarkowski or Mee? I think generally they’ve been outstanding in the period since Gibson got fit.

That's partly my point, Gibson was never going to replace Mee, I cant think of a manager that has dropped the club captain, even more so Mr Dyche who is renowned for being stubborn, loyal, rigid or whatever word you want to use to describe a lack of changes to the team.

Maybe Mawson was seen as Tarkys replacement who is obviously the prized asset with the most potential to be sold for big money, and then Mawson comes in.
When that collapsed Gibson comes in Purely as cover and only cover in case of injury.

Ben Mee is club captain, undroppable. I cant believe any Burnley fan can think Mr Dyche would drop the club captain regardless, it goes against everything he believes in a promotes.

So imo Ben Gibson is a victim of having Ben Mee infront of him, and hasnt been given a fair crack of the whip, I dont for 1 minute believe Ben Mee has been on top for since Gibsons arrival so to not once warranted giving Gibson a few games.

I'd go back through the ratings game by game but I'm on my phone so it's hard work.

Woonderbah wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 7:26 pm

Watford were rumoured to want Gibson.
Dyche was rumoured to want Gray back.
Bob's your auntie's live-in lover.

Gibson wanted to go, we blocked that, it started the whole saga. Not sure there was a point keeping him anyway, if he was never going to play.
But hey ho there's been stranger decisions.

I get the not strengthening a rival debate, but if he's not that good anyway to improve us, and not played for 18 months, he wasnt going to be the next Van Dyke was he.

Ben Mee was extremely lucky to keep his place after the first half of last season. When Hart got dropped after the Everton game I personally thought Gibson should have been given a go as well. Heaton coming back in would have sorted the captaincy situation out as well.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 7:39 pm

Ben Mee was extremely lucky to keep his place after the first half of last season. When Hart got dropped after the Everton game I personally thought Gibson should have been given a go as well. Heaton coming back in would have sorted the captaincy situation out as well.

I'm of the same thinking, and if he didnt get the chance then, then imo he never was.

Thankfully we stumbled upon/forced to play McNeil after several others tried out of position before him failed.

Hopefully that's all in the past now, get a strong starting 11 and 2 or 3 utility men for the bench and thats us.
Would suit all parties, and doesnt bet the ranch.

MACCA wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 7:30 pm

That's partly my point, Gibson was never going to replace Mee, I cant think of a manager that has dropped the club captain, even more so Mr Dyche who is renowned for being stubborn, loyal, rigid or whatever word you want to use to describe a lack of changes to the team.

Maybe Mawson was seen as Tarkys replacement who is obviously the prized asset with the most potential to be sold for big money, and then Mawson comes in.
When that collapsed Gibson comes in Purely as cover and only cover in case of injury.

Ben Mee is club captain, undroppable. I cant believe any Burnley fan can think Mr Dyche would drop the club captain regardless, it goes against everything he believes in a promotes.

So imo Ben Gibson is a victim of having Ben Mee infront of him, and hasnt been given a fair crack of the whip, I dont for 1 minute believe Ben Mee has been on top for since Gibsons arrival so to not once warranted giving Gibson a few games.

I'd go back through the ratings game by game but I'm on my phone so it's hard work.

If you're criticising Dyche because he is loyal to Mee (and others) even if they have a few bad games, then you've gone beyond criticising one decision and moved on to criticising his entire management style. Dyche lets players play back into form, more than most managers. It's the way he is, and it works.

dsr wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 8:19 pm

If you're criticising Dyche because he is loyal to Mee (and others) even if they have a few bad games, then you've gone beyond criticising one decision and moved on to criticising his entire management style. Dyche lets players play back into form, more than most managers. It's the way he is, and it works.

Fully agree, it could be argued its his biggest strength, and also some may say his biggest weakness.

I dont criticise, I just offer an opinion, regardless of my opinion it wouldn't change a single thing anyway.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 7:39 pm

Ben Mee was extremely lucky to keep his place after the first half of last season. When Hart got dropped after the Everton game I personally thought Gibson should have been given a go as well. Heaton coming back in would have sorted the captaincy situation out as well.

Didn't Gibson play in the debacle against Everton?

Sure there is a great player there, he came as a big fish in a small pond at boro

Boro do want to sell Fry

We have to be careful here, the board of directors next decisions are crucial, too far or not is the question

MACCA wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 4:07 pm

Gibson will have to take a pay cut youd think to move anywhere, but if he is stubborn enough we will be in mo position to play hard ball with a fee, and maybe also after give him something in cash terms to make him move on.

Spot on - he could easily ask us to make up any new contract to his current level of wages for the next two years ( the norm in today's market)

MACCA wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 5:03 pm

That myth is getting as bad as the 20m Andre Gray fee, or the master stroke in bringing McNeil in.

Ben Mee was in very poor form in the early parts of the 2018 season, if Gibson wasnt going to get a run then, he never was.

Would any manager drop their club captain?
Not many, and with SD being more stubborn/loyal than most it wasn't going to happen.

Not surprising the player was miffed, he was or has been given a chance.
IF we are being honest Gibson was a better prospect and better footballer than Ben Mee, I'm sure once Dyched he would have become even better and been knocking on the England squad door.

Sadly due to not getting that chance no one will ever know.

Look at what happened to Vydra once he got the chance that most thought and could see he deserved.
Who knows what a player Gibson could have been given the chance, if he was purely just as good as Mee, we would gave had a better footballer in the side without losing a leader.

Gibsons fell foul to Mee signing a new contract and then getting the club captain role.
Not getting a fair crack caused him to kick off, which is fair enough, least it showed ( like Vydra when he was going public ) that he isnt happy sitting on a bench picking up wages, and believes in his ability

Hopefully we've held him back enough that he doesn't show us how good he could have been by turning in great displays when he moves on, as a few on here wouldn't ever be able to see or admit there might have been an error on Mr Dyches tactics, loyalty or handling of a player

Not half as big a myth as Gibson should have been playing while Mee was in poor form even though Gibson was having surgery.

I can't see any Boro player signing for Burnley for a while.
Gibson isn't exactly going to be saying nice things about us up there.

dsr wrote: ↑

Sun May 31, 2020 8:19 pm

If you're criticising Dyche because he is loyal to Mee (and others) even if they have a few bad games, then you've gone beyond criticising one decision and moved on to criticising his entire management style. Dyche lets players play back into form, more than most managers. It's the way he is, and it works.

I personally think that's one of SD's best qualities while he's been here.
Think we all agree we're better, team-wise than the sum of our parts.
SD's way of letting players play through the odd poor spell takes a bit of the pressure off them, allowing us to continue sticking two fingers up at the Big Boys.

Ben Mee or Gibson it’s no contest.

Mee has two promotions and since he switched to centre back 23 games undefeated, a Championship and probably five consecutive seasons in the EPL and he is rarely injured.

Gibson has one promotion immediately followed by relegation, lost in the play offs the season before we signed him and has rarely been on the winning side in any outing whilst he has been at Burnley. His last two starts we conceded 8 goals to Everton and Sunderland, the latter a team struggling to score in Division 3. He seems to get injured even when he isn’t playing and the worst bit is he ran away to Middlesbrough. The place is a complete dump and their football team might be in Division 3 next year.

The bloke is a complete loser. Please Sean get rid at any cost a.s.a.p.

Boro will know we want rid, they will low ball an offer, I'm assuming we have made it known he is transfer listed? !

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 01, 2020 5:09 pm

Boro will know we want rid, they will low ball an offer, I'm assuming we have made it known he is transfer listed? !

Yes they'll low ball, we need to hope other clubs are interested, and a bidding war ensues, but we'll do well to get anywhere near 10m for him.

If Watford survive, they may still be interested.