Here's the details of the new laws:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/202 ... tents/made

I find it worrying that the government made their announcement about the new "rules" late last Thursday evening but it's taken them almost five days to come up with the actual legislation required to put these "rules" into law.

Found this very useful website which shows a map of new weekly Covid 19 positive cases for individual council wards:

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewe ... 6912ed7076

Marsden ward of Pendle Council is highlighted in image below as an example:

N_N_N wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:40 pm

Found this very useful website which shows a map of new weekly Covid 19 positive cases for individual council wards:

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewe ... 6912ed7076

Marsden ward of Pendle Council is highlighted in image below as an example:


localdata.png

That's a very useful map, thanks.

One thing it shows is that there are no cases at all in Colne, Foulridge, Laneshawbridge, Trawden, Barnoldswick, Earby, Kelbrook, etc. for the last week in July. Which leads me to believe that the new high level lockdown is just a tiny bit of an overraction. Heaven help us if next week there is 1 case - they will tell us that the number of cases has risen by infinity and introduce new laws that we all have to stop breathing for two weeks.

No problem dsr. I thought so too, until I read the spreadsheet (image below showing wards of Burnley, for the last ten weeks) and realised that confusingly "data suppressed" on the legend means between 0 and 2 cases (inclusive).

But you are right in saying that many wards/areas have very low new weekly cases, and in fact some wards of Burnley and Pendle may not have had any new cases for almost ten weeks!

The full spreadhseet showing weekly new cases for every council ward in England from February onwards can be downloaded from this page:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases?a ... me=Burnley

Just click on the downward arrow just to the right of the "Weekly Cases by Local Area in England" heading.

The correlation between wards and cases speaks volumes.

But hush....

Here's the weekly new cases data for individual wards of Pendle Council for the past 10 weeks:

atlantalad wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:07 am

The correlation between wards and cases speaks volumes.

But hush....

Yep. Higher reported cases in wards with higher Asian populations. This might be because of the nature of Muslim worship, i.e., regular gatherings in mosques, or perhaps (or even coupled with the fact) Asians are typically more likely to live in tightly-knit family groups*, which might be considered rather quaint to some. But for the sake of not having a good, resourceful and informative thread deleted can the base morons of this board keep their pointless aspersions and dog whistles away from this thread, just this one single thread, please?

*Source: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.ser ... -ethnicity lest anyone think I'm perpetuating unfounded stereotypes.

Also must be stressed that an assumption is being made here about the race of those infected with covid in said wards.

N_N_N wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:18 am

Here's the weekly new cases data for individual wards of Pendle Council for the past 10 weeks:


pendle.png

Thanks again. So 3 cases in Colne in June and none at all in July. There hasn't been a single person found to have coronavirus in Colne in July. This is lunacy.

dsr wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:55 am

Thanks again. So 3 cases in Colne in June and none at all in July. There hasn't been a single person found to have coronavirus in Colne in July. This is lunacy.

Under part 2.2 in the SI linked in the first post, "Meaning of “the protected area” in Part 2", it legislates by borough, not by ward, and I'm assuming the govt has granted no such powers to boroughs to enforce lockdown (limits on indoor gathering) on a ward-by-ward basis because it'd be impossible to endow every borough in the country with the scientific resources to make such decisions, and legislatively impossible for the govt to make ward-by-ward decisions. Colne is 5 minutes from Nelson which has seen a significant number of cases in the last week. It seems sensible to me.

And bear in mind, you’re not allowed to have sex with anyone else apart from anyone in your own household, according to the Daily Mirror.

dermotdermot wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:18 am

And bear in mind, you’re not allowed to have sex with anyone else apart from anyone in your own household, according to the Daily Mirror.

Some of us don't get it with the person we live with. No chance of getting it anywhere else.

Might be something to do with families of 27 living in a two bedroom terraced

Blimey, where's that then ?

Spiral wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:27 am

Yep. Higher reported cases in wards with higher Asian populations. This might be because of the nature of Muslim worship, i.e., regular gatherings in mosques, or perhaps (or even coupled with the fact) Asians are typically more likely to live in tightly-knit family groups*, which might be considered rather quaint to some. But for the sake of not having a good, resourceful and informative thread deleted can the base morons of this board keep their pointless aspersions and dog whistles away from this thread, just this one single thread, please?

*Source: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.ser ... -ethnicity lest anyone think I'm perpetuating unfounded stereotypes.

Also must be stressed that an assumption is being made here about the race of those infected with covid in said wards.

fair point Spiral, but mosques have been closed as per lockdown directives, and however many reside in a dwelling, if people adhered to the social distancing guidelines and advice on not visiting elsewhere, the problems with worsening the spread of cases should not occur.

So kneeling next to someone in a mosque is riskier than sitting next to someone in a church?

Fridays are riskier than Sundays?

Mmmmm.....

No worse than a packed pub

bobinho wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:42 pm

So kneeling next to someone in a mosque is riskier than sitting next to someone in a church?

Fridays are riskier than Sundays?

Mmmmm.....

Wile E Coyote is right to correct me that mosques have been closed recently (I remember hearing about them being open earlier in the year with social distancing enforced) but the point is that the footfall in mosques appears to be higher around here than in churches around here, not that mosques are an environment which is inherently more conducive to the spread of covid. I quite literally don't know a single human being personally who attends a church.

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:07 pm

No worse than a packed pub

Correct. This conversation all started by me forgetting that places of worship have been closed. Absolutely dim moment from me.

dermotdermot wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:18 am

And bear in mind, you’re not allowed to have sex with anyone else apart from anyone in your own household, according to the Daily Mirror.

Blackburn are sorted then, providing it includes stables.

Burnley1989 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:07 pm

No worse than a packed pub

Following on with the above logic I'd say a closed mosque is much more of a risk than packed pub.

Spiral wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:27 am

Yep. Higher reported cases in wards with higher Asian populations. This might be because of the nature of Muslim worship, i.e., regular gatherings in mosques, or perhaps (or even coupled with the fact) Asians are typically more likely to live in tightly-knit family groups*, which might be considered rather quaint to some. But for the sake of not having a good, resourceful and informative thread deleted can the base morons of this board keep their pointless aspersions and dog whistles away from this thread, just this one single thread, please?

*Source: https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.ser ... -ethnicity lest anyone think I'm perpetuating unfounded stereotypes.

Also must be stressed that an assumption is being made here about the race of those infected with covid in said wards.

Is it because they are Asian? Or is it because they are poorer and have to live a more family lifestyle, so more people under 1 roof? Because it happens here too, being 30 miles from the border. Cases are high in Hispanic (poor) parts of town while the nice richer older whiter areas (your Laneshawbridges and equivalents) are zero because they have nice big houses and don’t have to go to work. So I put it to you that maybe you should replace ‘Asian’ with poorer. Because we don’t have any Asians here and the pattern is still the same ?

I have a holiday cottage booking in Fence for October that needs paying for soon. I’ve paid a none refundable deposit and am hesitant to pay the rest because the small print distances the company from any COVID impacts. Not sure how legal that is if they are not allowed to provide the service I’ve paid for?

Reading that legal stuff suggests I could still go as long as I don’t participate in gatherings as described. Defeats the object of the visit a little bit, but some outdoor catch up is better than nothing having not had chance since Christmas.

Any thoughts? Can I still visit under these lockdown conditions? Should I?

Spiral wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:11 pm

I quite literally don't know a single human being personally who attends a church.

You must move in very small circles. There are many posters on here that regularly attend church, when open of course.

I don't think many take any notice of the government guide lines, they just get on with the job.

CharlieinNewMexico wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:39 am

Is it because they are Asian? Or is it because they are poorer and have to live a more family lifestyle, so more people under 1 roof? Because it happens here too, being 30 miles from the border. Cases are high in Hispanic (poor) parts of town while the nice richer older whiter areas (your Laneshawbridges and equivalents) are zero because they have nice big houses and don’t have to go to work. So I put it to you that maybe you should replace ‘Asian’ with poorer. Because we don’t have any Asians here and the pattern is still the same ?

I don't think "Asians" (so-called even though they are British) necessarily live a more family lifestyle because they are poorer. It is widely believed, I think correctly, that people with Asian traditions are much more inclined to jeep old people with the family rather than in old folks' homes. Not the people who must have nursing homes, but the people who can no longer cope alone - it is, I believe, a matter of course than an "Asian" old person will live with family rather than in an old folks' home.

Siddo wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:31 am

You must move in very small circles. There are many posters on here that regularly attend church, when open of course.

I'm the same, I know people who will attend church for specific reasons like a wedding, funeral etc but no one I personally know attends regularly.
I know a lot more people who attend Mosques though.

At some point people will move on from this need to believe in a god I hope.

In my area (Cliviger, Lane Bottom, Worsthorne) there have been no reported cases since week 23.
I'm a 80 year old widower, disabled, with limited mobility.
I have a cleaing lady that attends for an hour 4 days a week.
It is unclear to me if her 'paid for' visits constitute 'personal care' - allowable under the regulations, or not.
Guidance please.

charlyt wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:25 am

In my area (Cliviger, Lane Bottom, Worsthorne) there have been no reported cases since week 23.
I'm a 80 year old widower, disabled, with limited mobility.
I have a cleaing lady that attends for an hour 4 days a week.
It is unclear to me if her 'paid for' visits constitute 'personal care' - allowable under the regulations, or not.
Guidance please.

I would say yes, until some official busybody says different.

charlyt wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:25 am

In my area (Cliviger, Lane Bottom, Worsthorne) there have been no reported cases since week 23.
I'm a 80 year old widower, disabled, with limited mobility.
I have a cleaing lady that attends for an hour 4 days a week.
It is unclear to me if her 'paid for' visits constitute 'personal care' - allowable under the regulations, or not.
Guidance please.

I would say yes also.... but the cleaning ladys working circumstances would have to be official and above board I'd guess for you to pursue any financial benefits.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:23 am

I'm the same, I know people who will attend church for specific reasons like a wedding, funeral etc but no one I personally know attends regularly.
I know a lot more people who attend Mosques though.

At some point people will move on from this need to believe in a god I hope.

Why do you hope for that?

Siddo wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:42 pm

Why do you hope for that?

Look around at the horrific acts carried out in the name of gods that have never been proven to exist.
Or acts carried out by supposedly religious people who're then protected by the same religion instead of facing justice.
They take money from the poor etc.

Nah, we don't need religion.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:50 pm

Look around at the horrific acts carried out in the name of gods that have never been proven to exist.
Or acts carried out by supposedly religious people who're then protected by the same religion instead of facing justice.
They take money from the poor etc.

Nah, we don't need religion.

Yet you have it in your username?

Targetman wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:53 pm

Yet you have it in your username?

But in his username it’s a DJ not an imaginary deity

Targetman wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:53 pm

Yet you have it in your username?

Song by Faithless...

Come back when you can prove a god exists.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:08 pm

Song by Faithless...

Come back when you can prove a god exists.

But that is what faith is . Believing in something that you can't see.

Churchgoers could say you come back when you can prove that He doesn't exist.

Siddo wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:05 pm

But that is what faith is . Believing in something that you can't see.

Churchgoers could say you come back when you can prove that He doesn't exist.

Why should the onus be on a non believer?
I'm not the one demanding loyalty, money or to cause harm in the name of something I don't believe in.

People are given a choice to convert or die in this day and age....

In the US Atheists are barred from taking public office still, in some states.
They'd never knowingly have an Atheist President.

I'll believe when it's proven, until then it's filed alongside fairytales/books of fiction.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:18 pm

Why should the onus be on a non believer?
I'm not the one demanding loyalty, money or to cause harm in the name of something I don't believe in.

People are given a choice to convert or die in this day and age....

In the US Atheists are barred from taking public office still, in some states.
They'd never knowingly have an Atheist President.

I'll believe when it's proven, until then it's filed alongside fairytales/books of fiction.

Steady on you can't lump fairy tales in the same category, you only have to look at Eddie & Bournemouth for a modern day fairy tale.... actually you have a point

The burden of proof is on the one suggesting something exists. That's how it works.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:18 pm

Why should the onus be on a non believer?
I'm not the one demanding loyalty, money or to cause harm in the name of something I don't believe in.

People are given a choice to convert or die in this day and age....

In the US Atheists are barred from taking public office still, in some states.
They'd never knowingly have an Atheist President.

I'll believe when it's proven, until then it's filed alongside fairytales/books of fiction.

You could say that you can't see the wind, nor touch it, but you believe it exists. Christians will say the same.
I'm not sure that Christian religions demand loyalty, money or that you harm someone in their name.
You might be thinking of radicals or terrorists?

CharlieinNewMexico wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:39 am

Is it because they are Asian? Or is it because they are poorer and have to live a more family lifestyle, so more people under 1 roof? Because it happens here too, being 30 miles from the border. Cases are high in Hispanic (poor) parts of town while the nice richer older whiter areas (your Laneshawbridges and equivalents) are zero because they have nice big houses and don’t have to go to work. So I put it to you that maybe you should replace ‘Asian’ with poorer. Because we don’t have any Asians here and the pattern is still the same ?

There can't be many, if any Hispanic people in Nelson, but I basically agree with what you're saying, and pointed to reasons why a population centre with a high percentage of Asians - Nelson - might be experiencing a higher number of cases than the surrounding, more white areas by stressing that a person's Asian-ness has little/nothing to do with the spike in Nelson, but rather living arrangements (multi-generational families under one roof) more commonly found among Asian families being sadly, and through no fault of their own, not-ideal during a pandemic. (The flu season happens in the winter not because the flu can't survive summer, but because folks are cooped up at home in winter). Unfortunately there are a few racist b@stards on here - on other threads mainly, some now deleted or locked - who have used the correlation to reaffirm their prejudices about Asian people (Asians being 'filthy' or unhygienic being a horrible characterisation you hear from the gammon and the chavs), drawing attention to the correlation and using it as an opportunity to percolate their backward attitudes through a more virtuous solicitude for public health.

Siddo wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:55 pm

You could say that you can't see the wind, nor touch it, but you believe it exists. Christians will say the same.
I'm not sure that Christian religions demand loyalty, money or that you harm someone in their name.
You might be thinking of radicals or terrorists?

Loyalty - believe or its hell for you, they've also converted through threats of, or used, violence.

Money - pretty sure churches hand out the bowls at most Sunday services and Yank Evangelics are always after cash for their latest jet or mansion.
Churches are also tax exempt in a lot of countries...

Harm - Christianity has harmed millions over the centuries, fought wars (crusades), enslaved, tortured and murdered people (Spanish inquisition anyone), let's not forget good old fashioned heresy/blasphemy laws.

You can sit there and tell me Christianity isn't that bad, or as bad as Islam, but it has been and still is in many ways.
Could I also suggest you watch the fact based film Spotlight, it's on Netflix, which also shows how the Catholic Church protects child abusing clergy over the children.
We complain about Muslims abusing white girls and using religion as an excuse but the church is equally as culpable

Spiral wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:11 pm

I quite literally don't know a single human being personally who attends a church.

B&Q is my church, I go there religiously every Sunday!

Spiral wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:07 pm

There can't be many, if any Hispanic people in Nelson, but I basically agree with what you're saying, and pointed to reasons why a population centre with a high percentage of Asians - Nelson - might be experiencing a higher number of cases than the surrounding, more white areas by stressing that a person's Asian-ness has little/nothing to do with the spike in Nelson, but rather living arrangements (multi-generational families under one roof) more commonly found among Asian families being sadly, and through no fault of their own, not-ideal during a pandemic. (The flu season happens in the winter not because the flu can't survive summer, but because folks are cooped up at home in winter). Unfortunately there are a few racist b@stards on here - on other threads mainly, some now deleted or locked - who have used the correlation to reaffirm their prejudices about Asian people (Asians being 'filthy' or unhygienic being a horrible characterisation you hear from the gammon and the chavs), drawing attention to the correlation and using it as an opportunity to percolate their backward attitudes through a more virtuous solicitude for public health.

What's no fault of their own when it comes to the living arrangements?
They choose to live a certain way, with large multi generational families under one roof.

The UK was the same a many generations ago.

I'm not saying its a bad thing that they look after their elderly relatives instead of putting them in care homes, but it's still their choice.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:45 pm

What's no fault of their own when it comes to the living arrangements?
They choose to live a certain way, with large multi generational families under one roof.

The UK was the same a many generations ago.

I'm not saying its a bad thing that they look after their elderly relatives instead of putting them in care homes, but it's still their choice.

It's through no fault of the members of a multi-generational family unit that a pandemic has hit in which the best response is isolation or distancing. Read the bloody sentence.

Spiral wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:58 pm

It's through no fault of the members of a multi-generational family unit that a pandemic has hit in which the best response is isolation or distancing. Read the bloody sentence.

I did read it.

They've also willingly broken or ignored the isolation and distancing rules, like plenty of other idiots.

TINNIES!!!

Have we signed anyone yet ?

TINNIES wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:05 pm

TINNIES!!!

Blast from the past!

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewe ... H1IJx0eCLI
New cases between 31/7-6/8