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" Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:29 pm
by Clarets4me
Just finished reading " The fall of the Red Wall ", a book analysing the last General Election, and in particular, the 41 " Red Wall " seats lost by Labour. It's quite academic in parts, but the conclusion is that the 2019 losses were 20 years in the making. The book plots a gradual decline in the Labour vote share in these seats, of which Burnley is one. This is attributed in part to decline in manufacturing industry and the associated Trades Unions, and also to the general feeling that " Labour no longer represents people like us " ...
The book argues that " Red Wall " voters tend to be socially conservative, ( wanting strong borders, tough prison sentences etc ) , deeply patriotic, and proud of our history and Armed forces. Labour's narrative over the last few years has been off-putting to them. The author makes a good point that in these traditional Labour seats, people either started to vote for the Lib-Dems/UKIP a few years ago, so finally voting Conservative in 2019 was less of a jump than going straight from Labour to the Tories. Even so, it's reckoned that over 1 million voters switched directly from Labour to the Conservatives in 2019. In 1997, the Labour majorities in Bolsover, Leigh and Burnley were 27,149, 24,496 and 17,062 respectively. All returned Tory MP's last December, despite the Brexit party polling over 3,000 in each seat ...
" I didn't leave Labour, Labour left me ", " I've always voted Labour but ... " and " Labour have taken us for granted " were all recurring themes from the hundreds of focus groups ...
Ring any bells with anyone ?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:32 pm
by Vino blanco
I wouldn't need to read a book to come to that conclusion.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:41 pm
by CleggHall
Yes it’s been a long time coming but the Labour Party did little to defend these constituencies against globalisation, de-industrialisation and the flight from manufacturing to becoming a service sector economy centred on London and the south east. Blair did nothing for Burnley despite Alastair Campbell’s fortnightly visits but the Corbyn factor played a big part too - unpatriotic, dithering on Brexit, out of touch with the north, lazy and lacking energy. He lost 3 elections - the referendum then 2017 and 2019 but his party saw 2017 as some kind of victory and therein lay the problem. Off to the allotment Jeremy, leadership is something you were not cut out for.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:48 pm
by huw.Y.WattfromWare
Can’t argue with anything in the OP but it still comes down to if you are working class, and that can now be earning up to £50k, a tory government will NEVER do anything for your benefit. Their soul goal is that the rich get richer.
A strange election with the brexit situation and the anti-CorbynItes but how sad that a lying, self-centred toad like Johnson can have PM on his CV.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:58 pm
by RMutt
Out of interest Clarets4me, what does the book have to say about media/social media influence?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:59 pm
by bobinho
huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:48 pm
Can’t argue with anything in the OP but it still comes down to if you are working class, and that can now be earning up to £50k, a tory government will NEVER do anything for your benefit. Their soul goal is that the rich get richer.
A strange election with the brexit situation and the anti-CorbynItes but how sad that a lying, self-centred toad like Johnson can have PM on his CV.
Well, maybe the Corbynites can shoulder some of the blame. One Of the main ones will be along Any minute, so I’m off to a ‘football’ thread so save me reading the same old same old.
Before I do tho, I voted Labour all my life... until Corbyn. Maybe it would be a good idea for one or two corbynistas to read the report, see the words written down and actually understand them. Alternatively, they can carry on blaming the right wing biased media for spreading lies about JC and ignore why traditional labour voters like me turned our backs on what was offered.
You know where the smart money is tho right?
Edit: if we now can be earning £50k (FIFTY EFFING K) as a working class individual, why did we need the JC version of the Labour Party?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:59 pm
by Somethingfishy
Clarets4me wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:29 pm
Just finished reading " The fall of the Red Wall ", a book analysing the last General Election, and in particular, the 41 " Red Wall " seats lost by Labour. It's quite academic in parts, but the conclusion is that the 2019 losses were 20 years in the making. The book plots a gradual decline in the Labour vote share in these seats, of which Burnley is one. This is attributed in part to decline in manufacturing industry and the associated Trades Unions, and also to the general feeling that " Labour no longer represents people like us " ...
The book argues that " Red Wall " voters tend to be socially conservative, ( wanting strong borders, tough prison sentences etc ) , deeply patriotic, and proud of our history and Armed forces. Labour's narrative over the last few years has been off-putting to them. The author makes a good point that in these traditional Labour seats, people either started to vote for the Lib-Dems/UKIP a few years ago, so finally voting Conservative in 2019 was less of a jump than going straight from Labour to the Tories. Even so, it's reckoned that over 1 million voters switched directly from Labour to the Conservatives in 2019. In 1997, the Labour majorities in Bolsover, Leigh and Burnley were 27,149, 24,496 and 17,062 respectively. All returned Tory MP's last December, despite the Brexit party polling over 3,000 in each seat ...
" I didn't leave Labour, Labour left me ", " I've always voted Labour but ... " and " Labour have taken us for granted " were all recurring themes from the hundreds of focus groups ...
Ring any bells with anyone ?
That pretty much sums up my journey voting intention wise..and the reasons.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:01 pm
by Quickenthetempo
huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:48 pm
Can’t argue with anything in the OP but it still comes down to if you are working class, and that can now be earning up to £50k, a tory government will NEVER do anything for your benefit. Their soul goal is that the rich get richer.
A strange election with the brexit situation and the anti-CorbynItes but how sad that a lying, self-centred toad like Johnson can have PM on his CV.
Eat out to help out was one thing the Tories have done to help this working class chap.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:02 pm
by Somethingfishy
RMutt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:58 pm
Out of interest Clarets4me, what does the book have to say about media/social media influence?
Ahh yes the old favourite of Labour supporters. All the medias fault.....every...single...time
Waiting for a certain poster to jump on this. Nothing is ever the fault of the Labour party..it is all a lie and a smear....
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:05 pm
by bobinho
Didn’t take long did it. I lost the bet tho... wrong poster.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:08 pm
by claretandy
Yep, sums it up perfectly for me.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:09 pm
by RMutt
Crikey, I only asked the question. But if you watched the Murdoch documentary series recently, there were loads of people acknowledging the importance of the press in shaping opinion, Farage stood out in particular as did Campbell.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:10 pm
by huw.Y.WattfromWare
Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:01 pm
Eat out to help out was one thing the Tories have done to help this working class chap.
You are one of the few but the wealthy haven't wasted the opportunity for cheap dining out.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:14 pm
by Somethingfishy
huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:10 pm
You are one of the few but the wealthy haven't wasted the opportunity for cheap dining out.
What exactly is the problem with that? Surely we want them spending their vast wealth to help businesses and the economy out? Or are we banning anyone earning over 50 k from eating out now?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:17 pm
by RMutt
I do wonder though, if red wall voters are so socially conservative why they ever voted for Labour in the first place, given they always had the socially more conservative Conservatives available? Or have they become more socially conservative over time?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:21 pm
by Somethingfishy
Is socially conservative another word for being centrist? I was moderate left now i'm bang centre with the slightest smidge to the right (according to that political spectrum test that was on here a few months back) I have certainly drifted right and i think that follows the general trend in the population. As you get older the trend is to drift right.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:27 pm
by RMutt
Maybe it’s the ageing population then. But as the Overton Window slides to the right what was once right is now left and what was left is now far/looney left.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:35 pm
by RingoMcCartney
Somethingfishy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:21 pm
Is socially conservative another word for being centrist? I was moderate left now i'm bang centre with the slightest smidge to the right (according to that political spectrum test that was on here a few months back) I have certainly drifted right and i think that follows the general trend in the population. As you get older the trend is to drift right.
By the age of 20, if you're not a socialist, you have no heart.
By the age of 40, if you're not conservative, you have no brain.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:45 pm
by RingoMcCartney
Clarets4me wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:29 pm
Just finished reading " The fall of the Red Wall ", a book analysing the last General Election, and in particular, the 41 " Red Wall " seats lost by Labour. It's quite academic in parts, but the conclusion is that the 2019 losses were 20 years in the making. The book plots a gradual decline in the Labour vote share in these seats, of which Burnley is one. This is attributed in part to decline in manufacturing industry and the associated Trades Unions, and also to the general feeling that " Labour no longer represents people like us " ...
The book argues that " Red Wall " voters tend to be socially conservative, ( wanting strong borders, tough prison sentences etc ) , deeply patriotic, and proud of our history and Armed forces. Labour's narrative over the last few years has been off-putting to them. The author makes a good point that in these traditional Labour seats, people either started to vote for the Lib-Dems/UKIP a few years ago, so finally voting Conservative in 2019 was less of a jump than going straight from Labour to the Tories. Even so, it's reckoned that over 1 million voters switched directly from Labour to the Conservatives in 2019. In 1997, the Labour majorities in Bolsover, Leigh and Burnley were 27,149, 24,496 and 17,062 respectively. All returned Tory MP's last December, despite the Brexit party polling over 3,000 in each seat ...
" I didn't leave Labour, Labour left me ", " I've always voted Labour but ... " and " Labour have taken us for granted " were all recurring themes from the hundreds of focus groups ...
Ring any bells with anyone ?
I said this May 2019-
RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 1:20 pm
Mon May 27, 2019 1:20 pm
The burnley result, along with vast areas of the North and Midlands, shows if the metropolitan London bubble dwellers in the labour party ( the Islington dinner party) take the remain and 2nd referendum path, they'll be annihilated in their former heartlands.
Take your core voters for granted and deny democracy by not respecting and enacting the referendum result and they will punish you.
Don't believe me?
Look at Scotland.........
Just a matter of months later. 80 seat majority!
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:47 pm
by SammyBoy
The UK (specifically England where 80% of the parliamentary seats are based) is an inherently "small c" conservative country and for this reason, Labour have to win elections whereas the Tories merely have try and maintain their position. Labour need to be slick, co-ordinated and on the money when judging the feel of the electorate, often for years at a time in the build up to polling day. If they don't nail all of this then almost by default the Tories will win the election, or at least return the largest number of MP's. A lot of the damage from the last election will likely be undone now Corbyn, Abbott et al have departed, for whatever reason people simply did not like them. However, whether Labour can ever win an outright majority again remains to be seen.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:49 pm
by Colburn_Claret
huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:48 pm
Can’t argue with anything in the OP but it still comes down to if you are working class, and that can now be earning up to £50k, a tory government will NEVER do anything for your benefit. Their soul goal is that the rich get richer.
A strange election with the brexit situation and the anti-CorbynItes but how sad that a lying, self-centred toad like Johnson can have PM on his CV.
It's a recurring theme though, just look at Trump in America.
Similar personality to Boris, yet the lack of a decent opposition, or a vision from the opposition that voters can buy into. As the OP said in the book, you might not like Boris, many don't, but at least he was proud to be British. At least the Tories have a facade of being tough on crime. At least they talk tough on controlling immigration, and addressing the illegal immigrant situation. Labour talks as though it despises Britain, feels sorry for the poor criminals and would open the door to all migrants. You add it all together and who cares that it's Boris as PM.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:50 pm
by Sproggy
There was a really good video posted on here a few months ago of an academic that presented similar findings to both main parties before the election. Labour brushed it aside, Cummings et al. took it seriously. Have had a quick look but can't find it.
Paraphrasing a bit but it covered all the point in the OP and said something along the lines of if a rich Tory and a working class Tory were sat in the same room, they'd have some common ground to talk about. If a rich Labour voter and a working class Labour voter were in the same situation, they wouldn't.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:51 pm
by Spijed
RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:45 pm
I said this May 2019-
Just a matter of months later. 80 seat majority!
I see your last comment - "Look at Scotland".
Wonder why they will never ever vote for the Tories?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:52 pm
by Rowls
20 years in the making - minimum.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:55 pm
by Colburn_Claret
bobinho wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:59 pm
Well, maybe the Corbynites can shoulder some of the blame. One Of the main ones will be along Any minute, so I’m off to a ‘football’ thread so save me reading the same old same old.
Before I do tho, I voted Labour all my life... until Corbyn. Maybe it would be a good idea for one or two corbynistas to read the report, see the words written down and actually understand them. Alternatively, they can carry on blaming the right wing biased media for spreading lies about JC and ignore why traditional labour voters like me turned our backs on what was offered.
You know where the smart money is tho right?
Edit: if we now can be earning £50k (FIFTY EFFING K) as a working class individual, why did we need the JC version of the Labour Party?
I've said many times, working class man has more disposable income than ever before. Why would the Turkeys vote for Christmas.
There are more issues to an election than personal gain, you can be well off and care about those elderly, sick or poor, but until Labour understands what working class man is, and what he believes, it's going to be a long cold winter.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:01 pm
by Somethingfishy
RMutt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:27 pm
Maybe it’s the ageing population then. But as the Overton Window slides to the right what was once right is now left and what was left is now far/looney left.
The right have taken the middle ground and hoovered up a lot of moderates and centrists. This should have been where Labour were positioned but clearly they have a significant proportion of their membership determined to drag them further left. Crazy. I have read many times of how Blair was a tory in all but name etc. Blair was the moderate left and that is how they see the moderate left. Blair/Brown are their only PMs in 40 years. Tells you something.
Many traditional (not new) tory voters see Johnson as being too left and not hardline enough..which is in contrast to the left who see him as akin to Hitler going off tweets i read last night
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:03 pm
by RingoMcCartney
Spijed wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:51 pm
I see your last comment - "Look at Scotland".
Wonder why they will never ever vote for the Tories?
The point I was , propheticly, making was , if you take your voters for granted and they perceive that you've turned your back on them. Don't be at all surprised if
they then turn their backs on
you.
Oh and by the way. In 1997, labour had 56 Scottish Westminster MPs. The tories zero. They used to mock the tories saying there were more Panda bears in Scotland than Tory MPs.
Currently, labour have 1. The tories 6. The question you perhaps should be asking is "Scotland, Labour. Where did it all go wrong?
You'll find a similar answer if you apply it to the former Red Wall.
Labour used to be the working class party.
It's become an Islington dinner party.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:04 pm
by Spijed
bobinho wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:59 pm
Well, maybe the Corbynites can shoulder some of the blame. One Of the main ones will be along Any minute, so I’m off to a ‘football’ thread so save me reading the same old same old.
Before I do tho, I voted Labour all my life... until Corbyn. Maybe it would be a good idea for one or two corbynistas to read the report, see the words written down and actually understand them. Alternatively, they can carry on blaming the right wing biased media for spreading lies about JC and ignore why traditional labour voters like me turned our backs on what was offered.
You know where the smart money is tho right?
Edit: if we now can be earning £50k (FIFTY EFFING K) as a working class individual, why did we need the JC version of the Labour Party?
But in the days of Michael Foot, many Labour voters would have voted for Corbyn as he was cut from the same cloth.
So what's changed since the days of the miners going on strike?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:08 pm
by RMutt
Somethingfishy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:01 pm
The right have taken the middle ground and hoovered up a lot of moderates and centrists. This should have been where Labour were positioned but clearly they have a significant proportion of their membership determined to drag them further left. Crazy. I have read many times of how Blair was a tory in all but name etc. Blair was the moderate left and that is how they see the moderate left. Blair/Brown are their only PMs in 40 years. Tells you something.
Many traditional (not new) tory voters see Johnson as being too left and not hardline enough..which is in contrast to the left who see him as akin to Hitler going off tweets i read last night
. That’s all very well but when you say ‘dragging them to the left’ they are actually dragging them to what would once have been considered moderate left policies. Only the perception of those policies has changed.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:10 pm
by Clarets4me
RMutt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:58 pm
Out of interest Clarets4me, what does the book have to say about media/social media influence?
Some mention of the amount of negative stories for Labour compared to Conservative, people increasingly getting news from social media leading to some degree of self/censorship ( only getting news from your " groups " means that you often only get views you agree with ). The other point was that the Conservatives had a clear message, " Get Brexit done ", which appealed in the largely Leave voting " Red Wall " seats, whereas the media message from Labour was all over the place ...
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:12 pm
by RMutt
Thanks Clarets4me.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:14 pm
by huw.Y.WattfromWare
Somethingfishy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:14 pm
What exactly is the problem with that? Surely we want them spending their vast wealth to help businesses and the economy out? Or are we banning anyone earning over 50 k from eating out now?
Not at all. They can spend their money anywhere they want. My point was that they have taken far more benefit from this than the less well off. Surely there are better ways to stimulate the economy?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:16 pm
by Somethingfishy
RMutt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:08 pm
. That’s all very well but when you say ‘dragging them to the left’ they are actually dragging them to what would once have been considered moderate left policies. Only the perception of those policies has changed.
So if they are dragging their policies back left to the moderate left..where were they before? Central? So further right than Blair? Not having that at all. Sorry.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:19 pm
by wickdkewlclaret
Decisions made by this government have been absolutely atrocious, a catalogue of glaring errors one after the other. We still have Brexit left to get through yet.
People continue to defend them, as there is no credible opposition.
No-one deserves the benefit of doubt when leading a country, the people in charge should be qualified and skilled enough to execute a clear path and outcome. No excuses.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:20 pm
by Somethingfishy
huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:14 pm
Not at all. They can spend their money anywhere they want. My point was that they have taken far more benefit from this than the less well off. Surely there are better ways to stimulate the economy?
It wasn't about who spent the money..it was about the money being spent whoever spends it. It was about supporting restaurants and cafes etc and giving them a boost at a time when they have been really hard hit.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:34 pm
by CombatClaret
Clarets4me wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:29 pm
It's quite academic in parts, but the conclusion is that the 2019 losses were 20 years in the making.
The Conservatives have been in power for the last 10 of those 20 years. What have they done to turn the region around in the decade they've had in power? Apart from blame other people.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:03 pm
by Clarets4me
CombatClaret wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:34 pm
The Conservatives have been in power for the last 10 of those 20 years. What have they done to turn the region around in the decade they've had in power? Apart from blame other people.
I didn't mean for this post to get " political " in terms of taking sides, more looking at the " reasons " people's voting behaviour changed ...
One point that the author Steve Rayson made, is that in some of these places, people have lived under Labour Borough & County Councils, and had Labour MP's for decades .... to them, Labour are/were the establishment party.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:09 pm
by RMutt
Imagine being so anti establishment that you end up voting Tory. I think I’m going to read this book. It will probably make me more fed up than I am now but hey ho.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:32 pm
by Somethingfishy
Clarets4me wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:03 pm
I didn't mean for this post to get " political " in terms of taking sides, more looking at the " reasons " people's voting behaviour changed ...
One point that the author Steve Rayson made, is that in some of these places, people have lived under Labour Borough & County Councils, and had Labour MP's for decades .... to them, Labour are/were the establishment party.
I think it is an excellent summing up of the way I have changed my vote and the reasons. Clearly i was far from alone in thinking it and yet all we often get from the left is abuse and name calling. We are ex Labour voters. We are the ones they need back yet they somehow feel it appropriate to act like they do and vindicate our reasons. It happens on here occasionally but Twitter really is something else. There is a lot of bitterness for sure.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:45 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
Spijed wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:04 pm
But in the days of Michael Foot, many Labour voters would have voted for Corbyn as he was cut from the same cloth.
So what's changed since the days of the miners going on strike?
Millions of people have no emotional connection to the miners strike.
Millions of people are also fed up of the rail workers going on strike, or other sectors.
The Union members I know tend to vote Labour, but less people are supportive of Unions now than they were 30yrs ago.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:01 pm
by Billy Balfour
No new 'middle way' or new right wing party will break the mainly two party FPTP system we have for General Elections.
38,300 votes to elect each Conservative MP
50,817 to elect each Labour MP
334,122 to elect each Liberal Democrat
642,303 votes for zero Brexit Party MPs
864,743 to elect one Green MP
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:07 pm
by clarethomer
Good to see others share the opinion often rubbished by some on here to why labour lost the election.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:10 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
Another thing that's always made me laugh is people are told they should vote Labour because their family always has, or they're from a certain area so why vote anyone but Labour etc.
People aren't encouraged/trusted to think for themselves.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:13 pm
by Billy Balfour
It's not just a Labour thing. There are solid blue parts of the country where they'll elect any idiot wearing a blue rosette.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:21 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
Billy Balfour wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:13 pm
It's not just a Labour thing. There are solid blue parts of the country where they'll elect any idiot wearing a blue rosette.
Common phrase for both sides is you could stick a rosette on a donkey and people would vote for it.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:23 pm
by clarethomer
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:21 pm
Common phrase for both sides is you could stick a rosette on a donkey and people would vote for it.
There is a joke in there somewhere.....
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:28 pm
by Right_winger
It’s pretty obvious why labour lost its heartlands. It’s turned from a party supporting the working man to one which jumps on every bandwagon going thinking they are morally superior. That’s what the Lib Dem’s are for.
Proper labour politicians would be better forming a new party and leaving the Woke Islington bubble dwellers to it.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:29 pm
by Spijed
In 1997 it was the exact opposite where Conservative seats with huge majorities were being toppled with ease. It's unlikely to last.
Remember the Portillo moment?
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:37 pm
by elwaclaret
Spijed wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:04 pm
But in the days of Michael Foot, many Labour voters would have voted for Corbyn as he was cut from the same cloth.
So what's changed since the days of the miners going on strike?
Not sure they would. Michael Foot may have been LEFT but no one was ever going to buy that he was anti-British... the guy was a decorated war hero. Johnson was running in post industrial England.... Michael was trying his damndest To prevent us losing our self sufficiency by keeping our heavy industry. Mickael would not have had a bar of the European Union.... neither would his team... Tony Benn in particular, but not in isolation.
Corbyn was neither half the man or offered the nation half the hope that Michael Foot would have. Michael Foot would have beaten Thatcher but for “his appearance”. He was a fine fine politician.
Re: " Red Wall " seats ....
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:32 pm
by Clarets4me
elwaclaret wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:37 pm
Not sure they would. Michael Foot may have been LEFT but no one was ever going to buy that he was anti-British... the guy was a decorated war hero. Johnson was running in post industrial England.... Michael was trying his damndest To prevent us losing our self sufficiency by keeping our heavy industry. Mickael would not have had a bar of the European Union.... neither would his team... Tony Benn in particular, but not in isolation.
Corbyn was neither half the man or offered the nation half the hope that Michael Foot would have. Michael Foot would have beaten Thatcher but for “his appearance”. He was a fine fine politician.
Michael Foot was rejected on trying to volunteer at the start of the war due to his " chronic asthma " .
However amongst his generation, Denis Healey was a beachmaster at Anzio, Jim Callaghan was a Lieutenant in the Royal Navy, Roy Jenkins was a " codebreaker " at Bletchley Park and Tony Crosland was a Captain in the Parachute Regiment ...