ALK Capital or Farnell/Elkashashy takeover

[MACCA]

As long as he is on the board of directors, he is going along with it.

Yes that what I said...

[arise_sir_charge]

Our new owners don’t have any money - our old ones didn’t.

We’ve not signed anybody this window - didn’t happen under our old ones.

Our new owners have been trying to sell shares and raise money - wait till you hear what Garlick and John B have been up to the last 18 months.


The debt is a concern. But I’m not a financial expert and I’d wager that a lot of you worrying about this aren’t either. Some people on here know a lot and they’ve written well, but even they are admitting this could go either way.

If you’ve made your mind up based on one transfer window in the midst of a pandemic you’re an idiot. Sorry to be so brusque, but you are. Some of the stuff I saw on Twitter last night was crackers.

Do you support a balance sheet or a football team?

Socrates has nailed it.

Everyone needs to calm down and see how things unfold. Not many of us can profess to fully understand it all and it's far too early (all things considered) to cast judgement either way, yet we have people lining up to pile in.

Notwithstanding any of that, there is sod all we can do to change it anyway!

[ClaretMov]

No wonder we didn't spend in the transfer window or probably the next ten.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -with-debt

[randomclaret2]

Very , very worrying read..

[ClaretMov]

I think we've had our pants pulled down

[DomBFC1882]

I'll say it again, where are the positives to this takeover as a month in and ive not seen one.

Talking about start as you mean to go on

[dushanbe]

Whats that phrase again, 'Exciting times?'

[GodIsADeeJay81]

I'll say it again, where are the positives to this takeover as a month in and ive not seen one.

Talking about start as you mean to go on

They've been here for a month, they need time.

Are you this impatient over everything?

[ClaretMov]

I don't support a minus £90 million balance sheet.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -with-debt

[ClaretMov]

They've been here for a month, they need time.

Are you this impatient over everything?

90 million after a month, they need time for what, to take it to 150 million 200 million, how long would you like to give them

[NewClaret]

Not sure this article says we're in £90m debt?

It says £60m + MG/JB have run off with £30-£40m of the cash in the bank.

[gandhisflipflop]

Jesus Christ, why can't you all just give these guys a bloody chance? They have been here 1 month and already the negativity has started. It's as though some are desperate for them to fail in order to be proved right.

[DCWat]

Until Pace provides something that we might be able to buy into as a plan for how this will all turn out for the best, the questions and criticisms will continue.

He can give us the big spiel about it being an amazing deal (or however he worded it) but so far, it’s just words.

I’d love to trust and have faith in Pace and his team, he seems a decent sort of bloke, I just need to see more than hearing some nice words.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

90 million after a month, they need time for what, to take it to 150 million 200 million, how long would you like to give them

Eh?

Dom said he's seen no improvement to the club after just a month of new owners being here.
I merely said they need time to improve the club.

Whilst I'm here though, that article doesn't make sense in regards to debt of £90 million.

[jrgbfc]

You can't blame people for going with their gut instinct. If something looks and smells like **** then it generally is!

[claret2018]

I'll just add that I deal with the financing of large takeovers everyday, and have done for the past 8 years, and from the information we have available I think things look very bad for the club. That isn't to say that things won't change for the better, but recent history of deals like this suggest they won't.

[ClaretMov]

It's in the guardian, maybe it should of been printed in the Beano with pictures so you could understand it better

[Burnley1989]

Our new owners don’t have any money - our old ones didn’t.

We’ve not signed anybody this window - didn’t happen under our old ones.

Our new owners have been trying to sell shares and raise money - wait till you hear what Garlick and John B have been up to the last 18 months.


The debt is a concern. But I’m not a financial expert and I’d wager that a lot of you worrying about this aren’t either. Some people on here know a lot and they’ve written well, but even they are admitting this could go either way.

If you’ve made your mind up based on one transfer window in the midst of a pandemic you’re an idiot. Sorry to be so brusque, but you are. Some of the stuff I saw on Twitter last night was crackers.

Do you support a balance sheet or a football team?

Spot on

[burnley007]

Until Pace provides something that we might be able to buy into as a plan for how this will all turn out for the best, the questions and criticisms will continue.

He can give us the big spiel about it being an amazing deal (or however he worded it) but so far, it’s just words.

I’d love to trust and have faith in Pace and his team, he seems a decent sort of bloke, I just need to see more than hearing some nice words.

I totally agree with this, a month in and all we've heard is talk. Literally nothing has changed, including another embarrassing transfer window shambles.

[expoultryboy]

An American with a big smile , likes to use Twitter , full of false promises ( transfer window) , his company in debt and now " builds a wall " against any awkward questions from the press .

[dushanbe]

Whilst I'm here though, that article doesn't make sense in regards to debt of £90 million.

It doesn't say we are £90m in debt to be fair, its says we are '£90m worse off and loaded with debt' which appears to be pretty accurate.

[Leisure]

including another embarrassing transfer window shambles.

Really! What were you expecting?

[Grumps]

Socrates has nailed it.

Everyone needs to calm down and see how things unfold. Not many of us can profess to fully understand it all and it's far too early (all things considered) to cast judgement either way, yet we have people lining up to pile in.

Notwithstanding any of that, there is sod all we can do to change it anyway!

I've posted this elsewhere, but our bid for Collins was one of the biggest made by any Premier league club, now that would have been something

[Dyched]

All this talk of debt, panicking and bedwetting by the numpties and they’re the ones wanting us to go out and throw millions of pounds about .

[Top Claret]

I remember 2 weeks ago after we had defeats against West Ham and Man Utd the board was in melt down having hissy fits it's just the same now.

I have not been happy with the deal since day one and certainly not having US owners who have a poor reputation in English football. Their here now and won't be going anywhere soon so we have to get off there backs, support the club and see how it goes

[aggi]

Well one thing about this saga is that we've come to the attention of some of the more heavyweight journalists.

It's worth bearing in mind that everyone has different risk profiles. Having some debt isn't necessarily a bad thing if it can be serviced and it generates more turnover than it costs. If ALK bump our revenues by £15m and the debt costs £5m per year then we're not in a bad place.

A leveraged buy-out certainly isn't my preferred route for a takeover but it isn't the end of the world if managed well.

Yes, it's likely that we'll struggle if relegated but, on the flip side, the new owners may have access to more sources of funds than if we'd been relegated previously. The relegation cushion we'd previously built up would only last so long as well, it would still have been important to bounce back quickly.

And, of course, we don't yet know the full picture. Is the equity in the holding company coming from cash or loans. How much has been taken out of the club, how big is the MSD loan? It might be worse than people think, it might be better.

I'm certainly not keen on the way this seems to have happened and I have yet to hear much of substance from our new chairman but it isn't time for panic stations yet. Maybe I'm a little more sanguine as I never expected American private equity to be anything but aggressive but some people are getting very much worked up.

[Les Lawrence]

Does anyone know Barry Kilbys views on the sale of the club etc

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It doesn't say we are £90m in debt to be fair, its says we are '£90m worse off and loaded with debt' which appears to be pretty accurate.

So the OP was just fishing with his headline then.

[beddie]

" and if three further instalments are not paid, there is a mechanism by which ALK’s shares in the club go back to the outgoing shareholders." Does that mean that Garlick and JohnB would be back in the driving seat and take on whatever amount of debt is at that point or just that they regain shares?

[arise_sir_charge]

I don't support a minus £90 million balance sheet.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -with-debt

Why, what actual difference does it make to you?

Have you honestly ever sat in your seat at the Turf, or more recently on your sofa and thought any of the following:-

"I can't believe he's starting Barnes and Wood but at least the balance sheet is looking healthy".

"VAR is ruining the game......but our tangible assets have increased this financial year"

"This WBA and Brighton game has been poor, I wonder how they are accounting for long term liabilities".

[NickBFC]

I totally agree with this, a month in and all we've heard is talk. Literally nothing has changed, including another embarrassing transfer window shambles.

I agree, although it was a difficult window for most clubs so I'll defer too much judgement there. I was initially impressed, he spoke well, sounded very upbeat and some of the plans sounded promising. However, and it is only a few weeks down the line, I am increasingly concerned what I read and I am beginning to feel can he walk the walk? Time will tell and we can't really judge until the summer window to see what happens on and off the pitch. I don't think anyone can be criticised for having concerns at this stage though. Let's hope things pan out well...

[Bosscat]

All this talk of debt, panicking and bedwetting by the numpties and they’re the ones wanting us to go out and throw millions of pounds about .

My thoughts exactly...

[dushanbe]

So the OP was just fishing with his headline then.

I've got no idea.

[NewClaret]

Until Pace provides something that we might be able to buy into as a plan for how this will all turn out for the best, the questions and criticisms will continue.

He can give us the big spiel about it being an amazing deal (or however he worded it) but so far, it’s just words.

I’d love to trust and have faith in Pace and his team, he seems a decent sort of bloke, I just need to see more than hearing some nice words.

Absolutely this mate.

For the record, I'm not anti-ALK. Nor was I that mad about another poor transfer window yesterday. What I am furious about is this morning's Guardian article suggesting that MG/JB have walked off with £30-£40m of our cash reserves having under-invested in the team for the last 3 years. There were previous suggestions that was the case, but I didn't believe it. Today's statement in the Guardian article confirms that they've been used without specifying the amount.

It's sickened me to my stomach and no wonder at all that Dyche/Garlick have fallen out.

But back to Pace and ALK; he does seem a nice bloke, appears genuine and seems to "get" the club and what it means to our community/fans. I'm willing to give him time. You can't, however, be elusive about the financial structure of the deal and not expect media speculation. I can't understand it. If there's nothing to hide, be transparent. It'll all come out in the wash anyway. Maybe he would be transparent, but MG/JB don't want folk knowing they've run off with the family silver?

And so far, he's offered very little of his plan for the club and how he plans to move it forward. I dare say they are developing them as rapidly as possible and there are some things he can't share, but absent these, coupled with a poor transfer window that he and the CEO built up, and amid the constant media speculation on the financial structure, nobody can expect anything other than negativity.

[Woodleyclaret]

I agree about giving Alan Pace and his buds a chance
Our team and our support earned North of £500,000,000 for our board and they didn't exactly splash the cash over the last 2 seasons

[ŽižkovClaret]

To sum up my feelings:

The story from a credible journalist about 30m being needed is worrying. He doesn't suddenly become less credible because you don't like the story.

The big words about signings and agents which at best shows naivety. Agents are, sadly part and parcel of the game. We will have to deal with them.

The fact we had no debt. We were 60m in the black, and now we are supposed to turn over and have our bellies tickles because they say its manageable......

[warksclaret]

You cannot blame fans for fearing the worst-it appears to me the more the financial experts and writers dig in, the less inspiring it is for our loyal fans
For me the Chairman who made pledges on numerous occasions about supporting SD has already lost credibility. So from an era of silence from the Board we go to the other extreme of maybe of regular, pure American bullshit. The next few months will tell. My gut instinct is "oh dear what is the fate of our unique and beloved club"

[beddie]

Because we've not been in debt for sometime people are getting anxious, I get that but I'm sure it's sustainable. It's easy to dismiss the new owners and there ideas of how the club should progress, however, perhaps we should get behind them and at least give them an opportunity to move us forward. Time will tell.

[BurnleyBob]

I find this article very worrying. These types of leveraged buy-outs have posed problems elsewhere in the economy. A cynic would say that ALK chose Burnley because of our strong balance sheet and cash reserves and they are never going to provide the backing that will make us into even a Leicester City. Thanks to so called progress in football Burnley are at best a Championship club and quite frankly I would rather be there with local business people running the club than outside investors who create the debt levels suggested in the article.

Maybe that Mike Garlick et al believed that the club needed to be moved forward, but think we have reached the best level we can with a manager that has performed miracles. However, If we go down so what - just as long we don't repeat the 1980s nightmare. Burnley have done really well recently and I cannot help thinking that this deal will not advance the club significantly and worse that it still it is no longer our club. Indeed as a minor shareholder -like many on this board - why have we not been consulted on what was going on? Isn't Burnley FC still a limited company?

[Dixie Normous]

I already thought Pace was talking nonsense when he said it was like getting a mortgage , is it heck. If you don't pay your mortgage the bank will take your house. If these guys don't pay the debt than the bank will seize the clubs assets not theirs . They haven’t got a pot to p In. Where will they get that cash to pay the 65 million back on time ? There is only two ways , the way they did before ,sell all the players or flog the ground .

[jrgbfc]

Because we've not been in debt for sometime people are getting anxious, I get that but I'm sure it's sustainable. It's easy to dismiss the new owners and there ideas of how the club should progress, however, perhaps we should get behind them and at least give them an opportunity to move us forward. Time will tell.

Its only sustainable as long as the Premier league money keeps rolling in. Without that you have to think we'll be royally screwed.

[Burnley1989]

Absolutely this mate.

For the record, I'm not anti-ALK. Nor was I that mad about another poor transfer window yesterday. What I am furious about is this morning's Guardian article suggesting that MG/JB have walked off with £30-£40m of our cash reserves having under-invested in the team for the last 3 years. There were previous suggestions that was the case, but I didn't believe it. Today's statement in the Guardian article confirms that they've been used without specifying the amount.

It's sickened me to my stomach and no wonder at all that Dyche/Garlick have fallen out.

As owners it was their money though, not ours, yes it’s disappointing but they’ve not actually done anything wrong

[bfccrazy]

I just don’t see how going from £50mil in the bank .... to being lumbered with debt attached to the club (not the owners) and in the red has its upsides

owners being cagey about the deal apart from saying “it’s a deal structure that’s never been done before” ....... with the only good thing to come out of it being the fact that ALK/Pace says, “yeah, we’re in loads of debt but it’s manageable”.

If we had a decent transfer window as it was being alluded to, maybe fans would believe the “it’s manageable” spiel more. At the minute though it’s been all di(k and no spunk, with a lot of wisely worded articles and interviews which haven’t really answered anything and made Pace/ALK look like they aren’t backing their word so far.

It’s only been a month and we’re no better off than we were under the old board who at least told us we couldn’t compete. Mentioned to a few mates last night that they will lose the good faith of fans quickly as Burnley fans are a rare breed of football fan which however much Pace and the new owners say they understand, they never will.

BFC isn’t a team in the town, it is the town. Our fans don’t like it being messed with and we don’t like being lied to. Just tell us what’s happening and we’ll probably still get behind the club, but to try and gloss over stuff and hide it in “confidentiality” and buzz words will make us think you’re pri(is.

[kentonclaret]

Can't see Dyche hanging around too long under these circumstances.

He's never been a big fan of Loan Deals

[martin_p]

I thought we already knew this.

[arise_sir_charge]

You cannot blame fans for fearing the worst-it appears to me the more the financial experts and writers dig in, the less inspiring it is for our loyal fans
For me the Chairman who made pledges on numerous occasions about supporting SD has already lost credibility. So from an era of silence from the Board we go to the other extreme of maybe of regular, pure American bullshit. The next few months will tell. My gut instinct is "oh dear what is the fate of our unique and beloved club"

How do we know he hasn't supported Dyche? He's publicly said he would and Dyche seems comfortable. Have you considered that maybe it was Dyche who decided not to spend?

I have now read lost 'credibility' and 'failed' in relation to the new regime this morning and to be honest it's all a bit pathetic.

[Hipper]

Apart from Man Utd what other clubs have had a 'leveraged buyout' and how did they fare?

[gandhisflipflop]

Judging a board over the last few years is one thing, to judge a board after a month is a different thing entirely and as stated above, pathetic.

[ksrclaret]

Hopefully the shares revert back and we can forget this sorry mess ever existed. Haha I know, never going to happen. We’re stuck now.

Relegation has gone from being an undesirable occurrence, to potentially catastrophic for the club. Exciting times.

[tally]

Well for what its worth ALK(Pace) appear to have put a lot of faith in Dyche being the man "still capable of working the miracle" of keeping Burnley in the Premier. If that is so then we are no furthur than we were?