• Season Ticket Refunds-Help/Clarification Needed.

Posted: **Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:06 pm**

First of all apologies if covered elsewhere. I did refer to the “Season Ticket Refunds” thread but it is now locked and lacking answers.

I’m a ST holder in JML. I’ve no interest in attending any game following a ballot as don’t want to watch games on my own in a partially full stadium. I’d have this view even if we’d had a much better start.

Would I now be better to cancel my DD and wait for the club to refund the 2020/21 payments made (with the possibility that I might lose my seat when we are back to normal, whenever that is).

OR

Continue to pay and wait for official direction from the club (downside more DD payments made and BFC notoriously slow in offering refunds).

Would really appreciate some advice and insight into what others are doing.

Thank you.

Posted: **Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:17 pm**

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:06 pm
First of all apologies if covered elsewhere. I did refer to the “Season Ticket Refunds” thread but it is now locked and lacking answers.

I’m a ST holder in JML. I’ve no interest in attending any game following a ballot as don’t want to watch games on my own in a partially full stadium. I’d have this view even if we’d had a much better start.

Would I now be better to cancel my DD and wait for the club to refund the 2020/21 payments made (with the possibility that I might lose my seat when we are back to normal, whenever that is).

OR

Continue to pay and wait for official direction from the club (downside more DD payments made and BFC notoriously slow in offering refunds).

Would really appreciate some advice and insight into what others are doing.

Thank you.

If you can afford to continue with your payments then I would honestly advise doing that. If you choose not to go into a ballot for a game if and when they allow reduced numbers, you won't be penalised and will be refunded at some point in time. You won't lose a penny by keeping up your payments and you won't lose your seat either.

I'm not sure what the situation would be if you opted to cancel now regards any refunds and retention of seat.

You are certainly not going to be on your own in not wishing to sit watching on your own in a partially full stadium.

Posted: **Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:30 pm**

Thanks Tony, my instinct did tell me that cancelling would potentially make for a break of contract and subsequent difficulties claiming a refund. I’ll now take your advice and hope that refunds when they are administered are swifter coming.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:19 pm**

Everyone should check out the club website, an update is now on it. I’m sure a proper thread will reopen on here soon.

Seems some sensible options though it looks like we cannot attend this season in a ballot if we choose a refund, otherwise money paid will fund our 2021-22 ticket.

Opinion will vary as to fairness of that (some people have lost jobs but could afford a game or two), and the other thing that occurs is what happens if the club enters administration, given fans will have paid up to May 2022? Given the financial pessimism that cannot be ruled out.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:41 pm**

After reading the update it doesn't sound like the club are hopeful of a full capacity at any point throughout this season.
Grounds across Europe are starting to fill up again but we had Wembley last night with the size of it unable to have any fans at all.
Something has to give soon

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:33 pm**

info published today

all here:

https://www.burnleyfootballclub.com/con ... nds-update

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:36 pm**

John Johnson 1605 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:06 pm

Continue to pay and wait for official direction from the club (downside more DD payments made and BFC notoriously slow in offering refunds).

I emailed the club a week or 2 ago and was told this is the best option, and to not cancel DD until there has been an update

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:45 pm**

It’s the people with less money being penalised.

Those who have less money will want the refund so can’t be in the ballot and will have to, possibly, pay more the following season.

Doesn’t feel fair to me.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:07 pm**

GaryClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:45 pm
It’s the people with less money being penalised.

Those who have less money will want the refund so can’t be in the ballot and will have to, possibly, pay more the following season.

Doesn’t feel fair to me.

And potentially have to pay it all in one lump sum, the statement indicates that monthly payments may not be an option.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:08 pm**

GaryClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:45 pm
It’s the people with less money being penalised.

Those who have less money will want the refund so can’t be in the ballot and will have to, possibly, pay more the following season.

Doesn’t feel fair to me.

Couldn't agree more

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:21 pm**

Carnt believe people moaning about this.
There's an option for everyone
The only thing you could possibly miss out on is an entry into a ballot you might not win anyway, and might never actually take place.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:22 pm**

The statement advises regarding possible season ticket price increases and possibly not having the option for monthly instalments. Does this indicate a possible change at the decision-making level, i.e. possible take-over?

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:31 pm**

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:22 pm
The statement advises regarding possible season ticket price increases and possibly not having the option for monthly instalments. Does this indicate a possible change at the decision-making level, i.e. possible take-over?

Probably means more that Dave Baldwin has left. Two of the things he was very sure on was direct debit and not increasing ticket prices.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:34 pm**

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:22 pm
The statement advises regarding possible season ticket price increases and possibly not having the option for monthly instalments. Does this indicate a possible change at the decision-making level, i.e. possible take-over?

Or just that in these uncertain times,no business would promise now, what prices etc would be next year

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:36 pm**

horrific by Burnley to link the ballot to season ticket refunds. Bang out of order.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:37 pm**

Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:36 pm
horrific by Burnley to link the ballot to season ticket refunds. Bang out of order.

Again, couldn't agree more. Talk about alienating fans who had paid up front, had their money held for potentially eight months and might need to get it refunded.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:38 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:21 pm
Carnt believe people moaning about this.
There's an option for everyone
The only thing you could possibly miss out on is an entry into a ballot you might not win anyway, and might never actually take place.

No, the message from the club should have been if you ask for a refund the only penalty should be not being entered into a ballot for tickets for current season. Many loyal supporters who have paid year on year for ST’s could be really struggling financially now or in a few months time and really need their money back. They shouldn’t be penalised next season for requesting it.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:38 pm**

Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:36 pm
horrific by Burnley to link the ballot to season ticket refunds. Bang out of order.

Horrific?

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:40 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:37 pm
Again, couldn't agree more. Talk about alienating fans who had paid up front, had their money held for potentially eight months and might need to get it refunded.

Yep, I am lucky as I can afford to continue to pay but so many of our fans wont be in that position.

They have completely ignored their morale obligation, it stinks.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:40 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:38 pm
Horrific?

Soz

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:41 pm**

Jenny55 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:38 pm
No, the message from the club should have been if you ask for a refund the only penalty should be not being entered into a ballot for tickets for current season. Many loyal supporters who have paid year on year for ST’s could be really struggling financially now or in a few months time and really need their money back. They shouldn’t be penalised next season for requesting it.

They might not be penalised...it only says any possible increase, who knows what will happen.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:46 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:41 pm
They might not be penalised...it only says any possible increase, who knows what will happen.

In my opinion the statement is worded in such a way so as to persuade people to not claim a refund or stop direct debit payments by using a couple of possibles/maybes/unknowns.

Also known as scare tactics, which in my view is completely unacceptable in the current climate.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:50 pm**

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:46 pm
In my opinion the statement is worded in such a way so as to persuade people to not claim a refund or stop direct debit payments by using a couple of possibles/maybes/unknowns.

Also known as scare tactics, which in my view is completely unacceptable in the current climate.

Spot on!

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:51 pm**

Jenny55 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:38 pm
No, the message from the club should have been if you ask for a refund the only penalty should be not being entered into a ballot for tickets for current season. Many loyal supporters who have paid year on year for ST’s could be really struggling financially now or in a few months time and really need their money back. They shouldn’t be penalised next season for requesting it.

And they shouldn't be excluded from any ballot - I think that's a shameful decision.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:51 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:41 pm
They might not be penalised...it only says any possible increase, who knows what will happen.

Oh be sure there will be an increase - it was only departed staff who have prevented it for the last couple of years.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:07 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:51 pm
Oh be sure there will be an increase - it was only departed staff who have prevented it for the last couple of years.

Tony, do you think we are now moving away from being a ‘community’ club in light of the way BFC have operated during the Covid outbreak? During difficult times like this I believe they should be doing their utmost to keep supporters onside and retaining the community feel. This latest announcement from the club and little things like not producing match day programmes because there is no profit in doing so just sends out the message that money is more important than looking after loyal supporters.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:11 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:51 pm
And they shouldn't be excluded from any ballot - I think that's a shameful decision.

I cannot think of one business which if you stopped paying, and/or removed all your funds would allow you to still receive benefits over those who paid into said business or kept their funds invested with them.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:14 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:51 pm
Oh be sure there will be an increase - it was only departed staff who have prevented it for the last couple of years.

With all the money clubs have lost during this pandemic, I think its safe to say that if an increase was deemed necessary it would happen whoever was in charge.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:14 pm**

Jenny55 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:07 pm
Tony, do you think we are now moving away from being a ‘community’ club in light of the way BFC have operated during the Covid outbreak? During difficult times like this I believe they should be doing their utmost to keep supporters onside and retaining the community feel. This latest announcement from the club and little things like not producing match day programmes because there is no profit in doing so just sends out the message that money is more important than looking after loyal supporters.

I brought up the programme situation at a meeting this week and got a "It's not cost effective", comment and that was it. I think this community club and one club for all slogan is a bit of a joke to be honest. And it's got worse I think.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:15 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:14 pm
With all the money clubs have lost during this pandemic, I think its safe to say that if an increase was deemed necessary it would happen whoever was in charge.

Given what I'm told and what I know, I'm not sure of that at all.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:19 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:08 pm
Couldn't agree more

Yep, I’ve written to complain and said I’m taking the refund and not renewing until they reverse this decision.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:23 pm**

I’ve long since held the view that financial prudence doesn’t necessarily lead to hero worship, despite being someone who advises on financial prudence for a living.

They have done well to keep the club financially above water, but I’ve never been convinced the fans have particularly benefitted (I tend to hold Dyche in credit for us being in the PL, mainly, plenty of clubs spend more and don’t make it).

So I can fully understand where those who criticise are coming from. Smacks of taking for granted, and the poor should always be thought about.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:24 pm**

It's a sad sign if we get the CEO from the Community side and it gets worse for the community.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:29 pm**

I get free travel insurance with my bank account

If I remove all my funds, and stop paying money to them, should I still get that benefit?

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:32 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:11 pm
I cannot think of one business which if you stopped paying, and/or removed all your funds would allow you to still receive benefits over those who paid into said business or kept their funds invested with them.

Absolutely. If and when Clarets fans are allowed to return, it will be in limited numbers. Those numbers aren't clear and neither, so it appears, is the number of ST holders we currently have,
As discussed earlier, ST holders, because of the commitment they have made, should get first bite. Those fans who aren't - including those who will have requested refunds and given up any right to preferential treatment- will have to wait.
It's a simple choice - the club have done their best.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:35 pm**

CrosspoolClarets wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:23 pm
I’ve long since held the view that financial prudence doesn’t necessarily lead to hero worship, despite being someone who advises on financial prudence for a living.

They have done well to keep the club financially above water, but I’ve never been convinced the fans have particularly benefitted (I tend to hold Dyche in credit for us being in the PL, mainly, plenty of clubs spend more and don’t make it).

So I can fully understand where those who criticise are coming from. Smacks of taking for granted, and the poor should always be thought about.

Season tickets haven't increased for 7 years, so the fans have benefited financially.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:38 pm**

Jenny55 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:07 pm
Tony, do you think we are now moving away from being a ‘community’ club in light of the way BFC have operated during the Covid outbreak? During difficult times like this I believe they should be doing their utmost to keep supporters onside and retaining the community feel. This latest announcement from the club and little things like not producing match day programmes because there is no profit in doing so just sends out the message that money is more important than looking after loyal supporters.

Loyal supporters will be leaving their ST money with the club.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:41 pm**

Sean Dyche's Watch wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:46 pm
In my opinion the statement is worded in such a way so as to persuade people to not claim a refund or stop direct debit payments by using a couple of possibles/maybes/unknowns.

Also known as scare tactics, which in my view is completely unacceptable in the current climate.

Why would a business not encourage/incentivise their supporters/customers to leave their money in the business? It's just common sense to do that.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:43 pm**

Leisure wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:38 pm
Loyal supporters will be leaving their ST money with the club.

What a

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:44 pm**

Ridiculous that people who ask for a refund may be excluded from a ballot.

But people have to get in the real world regarding our finances, you can’t moan about not signing players and then moan about possible ST increases. The wage bill has to be paid and TV revenue may reduce this on top of lack of matchday income. Can see a prized asset sold without a replacement this year.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:45 pm**

Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:36 pm
horrific by Burnley to link the ballot to season ticket refunds. Bang out of order.

It’s linked to St holders, who surely should be given preference over non- ST holders.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:46 pm**

Parkvilla wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:43 pm
What a

What's your definition of a loyal supporter?

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:47 pm**

If they allowed those that requested a refund to be included in the ballot, and they are successful doesnt that mean they would see the game for free?

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:47 pm**

Leisure wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:38 pm
Loyal supporters will be leaving their ST money with the club.

Not if they are desperate for a few hundred quid. What if someone has had to self isolate, or recently lost their job?

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:49 pm**

Leisure wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:35 pm
Season tickets haven't increased for 7 years, so the fans have benefited financially.

They haven't gone up since Lee Hoos left, he was determined that they should go up every year. I believe Dave Baldwin was eventually fighting a losing battle to keep the prices as they are. We are not the only club, Stoke's haven't gone up since 2006.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:49 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:11 pm
I cannot think of one business which if you stopped paying, and/or removed all your funds would allow you to still receive benefits over those who paid into said business or kept their funds invested with them.

Exactly so.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:50 pm**

Jenny55 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:47 pm
Not if they are desperate for a few hundred quid. What if someone has had to self isolate, or recently lost their job?

That's obviously very unfortunate for them but the club can't legislate for every unfortunate circumstance.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:53 pm**

Dy1geo wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:44 pm
Ridiculous that people who ask for a refund may be excluded from a ballot.

But people have to get in the real world regarding our finances, you can’t moan about not signing players and then moan about possible ST increases. The wage bill has to be paid and TV revenue may reduce this on top of lack of matchday income. Can see a prized asset sold without a replacement this year.

As ridiculous as the idea that those who have paid money to the club should have no better chance than those who have not??

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:54 pm**

ClaretTony wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:49 pm
They haven't gone up since Lee Hoos left, he was determined that they should go up every year. I believe Dave Baldwin was eventually fighting a losing battle to keep the prices as they are. We are not the only club, Stoke's haven't gone up since 2006.

That may be so but I'll bet that the vast majority of clubs have had annual increases. We've been very fortunate.

Posted: **Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:54 pm**

Jenny55 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:47 pm
Not if they are desperate for a few hundred quid. What if someone has had to self isolate, or recently lost their job?

In that case, would they have been able to afford a ticket had they been successful in a ballot?

Season Ticket Refunds-Help/Clarification Needed.

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