In the current situation the club is facing declining revenue for the foreseeable future. It cannot rely on the levels of TV revenue that it has received over the last few years. Neither can it rely on revenue from match days and advertising.

If the club made the several signings that it desperately needs and revenues remain depressed into next season it could end up in financial difficulties again (e.g. the collapse of ITV digital in Stan Ternent's last season).

From the club's point of view the pandemic can go on for some time yet. Better to risk the likely relegation battle than to risk ending up, in a years time, with a 'playing staff wage bill' that cannot be paid.

Perhaps prudence is the best way forward at the moment. Once the pandemic is over and revenue becomes more predictable the club can then re-asses the playing staff and allocate resources accordingly. This might possibly be from the Championship but at least the club would still be solvent.

For what it's worth I have reason to believe that SARS-COV2 will cease to be a pandemic in the near future and the board have perhaps been a little too frugal but there is no guarantee of that. I think that, on balance, the board have given the fans a 'good transfer widow'.

For those who want to look on the bright side, you might reflect that we have retained Tarkowski, Pope and McNeil, all of whom we were frequently told would be plying their trade elsewhere by now. So that's potentially around £80 million in new signings.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:35 pm

For those who want to look on the bright side, you might reflect that we have retained Tarkowski, Pope and McNeil, all of whom we were frequently told would be plying their trade elsewhere by now. So that's potentially around £80 million in new signings.

Also the young French midfielder might turn out to be a top quality signing.

Away you go and boil your heads. In no way has this transfer window been good. It’s been an unmitigated disaster. Much like the previous 4 or 5.

There is no will from the board to give the manager the basic tools to do his job..

Our window is not closed. Our shop, The Championship, is open until October 15th. Plenty of time for the clubs in that league to realise they have no money and the only way they can get any is sell players to Premier league teams who want to buy. As there will not be many premier league clubs to complete with young good Championship players will probably be available for less than normal. Let's see what happens in the next two weeks before start losing our minds.

If we literally can't afford to spend any money then we should have sold Tarkowski and got in two or three players for the money he brought in. Sticking with the current squad amounts to throwing in the towel. It's mismanagement of the club.

Right_winger wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:13 pm

Away you go and boil your heads. In no way has this transfer window been good. It’s been an unmitigated disaster. Much like the previous 4 or 5.

There is no will from the board to give the manager the basic tools to do his job..

Serious question.
I acknowledge that we could have freshened up the squad with new blood, but do you really think that we would have had a stronger squad if we had lost any out of Tarks, Pope and McNeil, or maybe all three? (Irrespective of who were brought in as replacements)
I doubt that we could have found adequate (or as good) replacements for any of those three even if we spent 100% of the net funds we raised by selling them.
Without selling them, where would the funds come from?
With significantly reduced income, (possibly for years to come), it's not the time for betting the ranch. (Unfortunately).

northernpowerhouse wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:26 pm

If we literally can't afford to spend any money then we should have sold Tarkowski and got in two or three players for the money he brought in. Sticking with the current squad amounts to throwing in the towel. It's mismanagement of the club.

Yes, I think that's fair, but with Mee not available at present that would have made that decision more difficult and risky.

northernpowerhouse wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:26 pm

If we literally can't afford to spend any money then we should have sold Tarkowski and got in two or three players for the money he brought in. Sticking with the current squad amounts to throwing in the towel. It's mismanagement of the club.

It that means paying more in wages and devalues our squad

northernpowerhouse wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:26 pm

If we literally can't afford to spend any money then we should have sold Tarkowski and got in two or three players for the money he brought in. Sticking with the current squad amounts to throwing in the towel. It's mismanagement of the club.

Apparently only £35m was offered and Brentford are entitled to 25% I think (someone will correct me). That’ll leave us with £26.25m to spend on 2 PL defenders (Tarks replacement + 1 back up) and 1 more (say RM). Those 3 would cost around £6m on £40,000 a week.

Imho, that’s not what the problem really is. The problem is nobody knows how long this current situation will last. If we all knew that by June 2021 we’d be back to normal I pretty sure signings would be made. Nobody has any idea what financial impact is still to come.

So selling Tarks and using that money to buy 2 or 3 is all well and good. Until you have to pay 3 new players wages for 3 years without knowing what income will be available. If Tarks is on £40,000, fine replace him like for like. But buying another 2 on top is £12m in wages over 3 years. We simply can’t commit to that at the minute.

Dyched wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:28 pm

Apparently only £35m was offered and Brentford are entitled to 25% I think (someone will correct me). That’ll leave us with £26.25m to spend on 2 PL defenders (Tarks replacement + 1 back up) and 1 more (say RM). Those 3 would cost around £6m on £40,000 a week.

Imho, that’s not what the problem really is. The problem is nobody knows how long this current situation will last. If we all knew that by June 2021 we’d be back to normal I pretty sure signings would be made. Nobody has any idea what financial impact is still to come.

So selling Tarks and using that money to buy 2 or 3 is all well and good. Until you have to pay 3 new players wages for 3 years without knowing what income will be available. If Tarks is on £40,000, fine replace him like for like. But buying another 2 on top is £12m in wages over 3 years. We simply can’t commit to that at the minute.

So you're saying that we can't increase the wage bill at all despite getting rid of Hart, Hendrick, Lennon and Gibson this summer? If that's the case it means we can't afford to pay a full Premier League squad and we deserve to be relegated.

I don't really buy that though. We were clearly interested in Wilson and Dawson in case Tarks left which suggests we would have had room on the wage bill for a few more players.

Let's wait until close of play on the 16th October before we pass judgement on our transfer dealings as a whole.

Right_winger wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:13 pm

Away you go and boil your heads. In no way has this transfer window been good. It’s been an unmitigated disaster. Much like the previous 4 or 5.

There is no will from the board to give the manager the basic tools to do his job..

This... It has been a terrible pre-season and one that is compunded by previous failures in the recruitment policy which has given us an aging squad.

With a fully fit squad, we have a capable premier league team. However where we have historically benefitted from largely injury-free seasons across positions/the squad - these failures have been less obvious on the day to day success of the club.

Maybe the lesson in this is that you cannot run a football club like a normal business where increased revenues and profit is rewarded and allows you to grow your business.

I would have sold Pope or McNeil, but not Tarky.

northernpowerhouse wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:16 pm

So you're saying that we can't increase the wage bill at all despite getting rid of Hart, Hendrick, Lennon and Gibson this summer? If that's the case it means we can't afford to pay a full Premier League squad and we deserve to be relegated.

I think that phrase sums it up. Without the guaranteed TV money coming in "we can't afford to pay a full Premier League squad" at the moment. At least not a fully fit one. A lot of the other Premier league clubs are likely to be assisted by wealthy backers. The reality is that we are a relatively small club heavily relying on the TV money to pay the high wage demands of the Premier League players.

When ITV Digital collapsed in the last year of Stan Ternent Burnley had to let go of most of the first team squad. When Steve Coterhill arrived in the close season he started off with just eight first team squad players and very little finance to bring players in. He made some very good signings and steered the club gradually out of trouble. We don't want to get into that situation again and certainly not in the situation that John Bond left us in during the eighties.

claretandy wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:29 pm

I would have sold Pope or McNeil, but not Tarky.

But did we receive any serious bids?

UnderSeige wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:06 pm

I think that phrase sums it up. Without the guaranteed TV money coming in "we can't afford to pay a full Premier League squad" at the moment.

At the moment maybe but not if Tarks had gone. If he went that money would presumably have increased our wage budget and gone towards at least two players (probably Dawson and Wilson), not one.

northernpowerhouse wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:53 pm

At the moment maybe but not if Tarks had gone. If he went that money would presumably have increased our wage budget and gone towards at least two players (probably Dawson and Wilson), not one.

Looking at the injuries over the last few months Burnley might need more than a couple of additions to the squad. Possibly three or four (more if someone leaves). They need to be of a Premier League standard and not injury prone.

I have no idea what the state of the clubs finances are at the moment. Are they breaking even or eating into reserves? One aspect of this is that the club will be shelling out Premiership wages during a time when the main source of revenue has declined. There comes a point where the club will have to borrow to pay wages unless the pandemic ends in the next few month.

I think the pandemic will come to an end by spring - if not earlier but nothing is certain at this point in time.

As is proven year after year, spending money guarantees nothing.
And every year we run the risk of being kicked out of the casino.
I think the decision has been made that If we do get kicked out, we'd rather do it with a shirt on our back, especially now it's raining.

Certainly a good window

We cant afford players who cost 25m nor can we pay 100k a week wages, it simply isnt possible.

Would anyone prefer we swapped positions with Bolton, or even worse Bury?
It's good we have taken the sensible approach, who know where football will be in 6-12 months time.

There's been a extra bonus with us getting to bring our own young players through to being involved in and around the first team.
Kevin Long has also been rewarded for his immense loyalty with a run of games.

What ever happens this season at least there will be a team representing Burnley fielded season on season for many more years to come.

The plusses in this window are that we managed to keep hold of our crown jewels, McNeil, Pope, Tarks & Taylor, and we've also tied Ash Westwood to a new long-term contract that's the good news.

However our activity has amounted to Dale Stephens entering the building, I don't count Norris as he's unlikely to feature in the first team, now if we can get our injured players back up and running soon, we might still just have enough to battle to 17th, but that's assuming we have a fully fit squad for the majority of the season, as history shows that's asking a lot.

We can only hope that Sean can work his magic and get them playing as a unit again and tough to beat, because unity is our best weapon in a relegation fight, and make no mistake that's what we're facing this season.

nil_desperandum wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:23 pm

But did we receive any serious bids?

There are rumours that we were trying to sell Dwight to Leicester behind dyches back.

AndyClaret wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:28 am

There are rumours that we were trying to sell Dwight to Leicester behind dyches back.

He kept us up when he came into the side.

Perhaps it's a case of we can't afford premier league football?

We don't have the revenues or deep pocketed backer to allow spending to keep on increasing without going into debt we cannot afford. I am sure we would all like to see big money signings but where is money to do so coming from?

Our profits have simply not been at a level to allow investment whilst remaining financially prudent. Even if we spend big and stay up what will that mean; in all likelihood, big losses.

Guppyspotter wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:09 am

Perhaps it's a case of we can't afford premier league football?

We don't have the revenues or deep pocketed backer to allow spending to keep on increasing without going into debt we cannot afford. I am sure we would all like to see big money signings but where is money to do so coming from?

Our profits have simply not been at a level to allow investment whilst remaining financially prudent. Even if we spend big and stay up what will that mean; in all likelihood, big losses.

We should be OK once this pandemic ends but I think that it is unlikely that we will ever be able to compete with the big clubs.

leelad wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:18 pm

Let's wait until close of play on the 16th October before we pass judgement on our transfer dealings as a whole.

Agree. Don’t think we can call it either way at this stage.

If things stay as they are, I’ll say we have had a very poor season. We undoubtably go in to this season weaker than the last having lost Gibson, Hendrick, Lennon and Hart (less of a loss given his Carabao showings, but still no PL experience). On the plus side, and saving it from being a disaster, we have kept our key players - Pope, Tarks, Mee, Taylor, Dwight, Wood - which means we still have a core to build on.

I think we need, in order of priority:

1. a creative midfielder (too much pressure on Dwight/Taylor to create otherwise).
2. a right winger (may be same as above).
3. experienced CH cover.
4. an attacking RB.

I don’t expect to get all four, especially a RB since we have two on the books - that can wait. One or two of the above would be a good window.

There’s still plenty of good players that would improve us. Unless I’ve missed any sales - Buendia, Cantwell, Brooks, King, Sarr, Aaron’s, Dawson, etc. Sure all will have suitors but I’m hoping most clubs have spent up in the first window.

'We deserve to get Relegated'

Really?

How about measuring what happens on the pitch and not in the Boardroom? This squad minus two players, one who has been nothing but a bit part, have competed very well over the past 15 months.

Football is about trying to score more goals than your opponent, not trying to see who can pay the biggest wages.

IF this squad get relegated it will be because they haven't competed well enough and not because we haven't spent enough.

JohnMac wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:56 am

IF this squad get relegated it will be because they haven't competed well enough and not because we haven't spent enough.

I disagree. Dyche has overachieved every single season at the club relative to the quality of players at his disposal. If we get relegated it will be because we start performing at the level you'd expect from one of the three weakest squads in the division. I wouldn't blame Dyche or the players for that.

Burnley have obtained a Champions League player, according to rank. Even his worse ranking was 35th, which is still pretty high. We had Champions League form with our current squad more or less, for the second half of last season.

When the big boys scrap, keep your distance and your skin and don't be drawn in by values you can't back up.

Makes sense to me.

Look at what happened to Colne Dynamos... And Glasgow Rangers.

In terms of town/borough size, Burnley isn't even in the top 200, let alone the top 10.

Some very well argued and thoughtful posts on this thread in my opinion.

Quick bury your head and pretend nothing is wrong

northernpowerhouse wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:26 pm

If we literally can't afford to spend any money then we should have sold Tarkowski and got in two or three players for the money he brought in. Sticking with the current squad amounts to throwing in the towel. It's mismanagement of the club.

Really find it hard to accept that the loss of Hart, Lennon and Hendrick is so detrimental!

Not a good window even with Claret tints on. The positives are keeping McNeil, Pope ( hopefully last performance was a one off) and Tarkowski. It’s debatable whether the latter should have been sold to strengthen elsewhere. Can’t believe we can’t find a decent right player we could afford but hopefully we will from The Championship. Just this one player would stop most of the unrest. Stephens just doesn’t cut it or offer us anything different or better. The other big positive is getting a glimpse of some of the younger players coming through.

MACCA wrote: ↑

Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:01 am

Certainly a good window

We cant afford players who cost 25m nor can we pay 100k a week wages, it simply isnt possible.

Would anyone prefer we swapped positions with Bolton, or even worse Bury?
It's good we have taken the sensible approach, who know where football will be in 6-12 months time.

There's been a extra bonus with us getting to bring our own young players through to being involved in and around the first team.
Kevin Long has also been rewarded for his immense loyalty with a run of games.

What ever happens this season at least there will be a team representing Burnley fielded season on season for many more years to come.

No one is asking for 25milion pound players though ...or paying them 100 k a week ...a signing of 8-10 million similar to brownhill would have shown a little ambition and I'm sure wouldn't have sent us the same way as bury

UnderSeige wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:19 pm

For what it's worth I have reason to believe that SARS-COV2 will cease to be a pandemic in the near future

Is there only me intrigued by this statement

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:03 pm

Is there only me intrigued by this statement

It's a bit off topic. I'll start a new thread.

Leisure wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:07 pm

Really find it hard to accept that the loss of Hart, Lennon and Hendrick is so detrimental!

Only Hendrick. According to www.transfermarkt.co.uk we got 27 points from the 14 games he started on the right-wing last season. 27 from 24 in the games he didn't.

Obviously JBG can do a job there but he won't last the season and Brownhill and Pieters are a massive downgrade.