• Pet insurance/vets

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:02 pm**

Just a heads up to all the pet lovers on here,our eldest dog was recently diagnosed with Cushions Disease which unfortunately is terminal,our recent vets bills have been over a £1000 drugs have brought Scally to stabilty and the vet said with drugs he could maybe live another two years or go pretty quickly,to cut to the chase we decided to claim on our pet insurance,the insurance company asked for Scally's medical history which the vet gave them it went back two years,the insurance company wanted more so we contacted his last vet in Ramsbottom about four years of medical history,wasnt enough the insurance company wanted more history we contacted a vet we used in Knott End on Sea they denied even ever treating our current two dogs and the previous two who they had treated in the past,and when they passed they cremated them....the outcome no vet history back to birth no insurance payout dont no if all insurance companies operate like this would be intresting to know other peoples expierances of claiming on pet insurance,they take your premiums but dont like to payout...b@stards!

Anyone else had a similar experience with vet insurance?

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:14 pm**

Steve1956 wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:02 pm
Just a heads up to all the pet lovers on here,our eldest dog was recently diagnosed with Cushions Disease which unfortunately is terminal,our recent vets bills have been over a £1000 drugs have brought Scally to stabilty and the vet said with drugs he could maybe live another two years or go pretty quickly,to cut to the chase we decided to claim on our pet insurance,the insurance company asked for Scally's medical history which the vet gave them it went back two years,the insurance company wanted more so we contacted his last vet in Ramsbottom about four years of medical history,wasnt enough the insurance company wanted more history we contacted a vet we used in Knott End on Sea they denied even ever treating our current two dogs and the previous two who they had treated in the past,and when they passed they cremated them....the outcome no vet history back to birth no insurance payout dont no if all insurance companies operate like this would be intresting to know other peoples expierances of claiming on pet insurance,they take your premiums but dont like to payout...b@stards!

Anyone else had a similar experience with vet insurance?

Typical Steve ... they take your money and will weasel out if they get the chance

As you say B@stards..

Sorry to hear about "Scally" hope he has the 2 years of lovely walks with you

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:22 pm**

The insurance company is called "Animal Friends"......with the sub title but we will rip the shite out of your "Human Friends"

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:40 pm**

Sorry to hear of your experience Steve, horrible people. Have you looked on moneysavingexpert.com site and forum for similar situations ? I doubt you are the only one.

I know this does not help you but we used PDSA. Lost our dog January 2019, him having grown two tumours. PDSA were great and never questioned the vet's file sent to them. We haven't got another dog yet but would use PDSA without hesitation.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:52 pm**

blsclaret wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:40 pm
Sorry to hear of your experience Steve, horrible people. Have you looked on moneysavingexpert.com site and forum for similar situations ? I doubt you are the only one.

I know this does not help you but we used PDSA. Lost our dog January 2019, him having grown two tumours. PDSA were great and never questioned the vet's file sent to them. We haven't got another dog yet but would use PDSA without hesitation.

Cheers buddy,the thing what puzzles me is,why would they want a dogs medical history,the claim,our first ever is for a current illness not something from 10 years ago,insurance companies really are leeches they take your money with no intention of covering you.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:17 pm**

Surely the problem is because of the Knott End vet, and I have no idea how you sort that.

Insurance will be wanting to confirm there was no similar health issue when they took you on, something undisclosed on application form. How long was your dog covered with "Animal Friends" in relation to it's age ? If it is it's whole life then they are, as you say, bstrds.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:22 pm**

Maybe go back over your old bank statements and identify the payment made to the vets who have denied treating your dog. Surely they must have a duty to maintain records? If you can pinpoint the actual dates of the checkups etc then this might prompt them to look a little harder.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:34 pm**

Steve1956 wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:52 pm
Cheers buddy,the thing what puzzles me is,why would they want a dogs medical history,the claim,our first ever is for a current illness not something from 10 years ago,insurance companies really are leeches they take your money with no intention of covering you.

We’re with Animal Friends and had an issue re cover a couple of tears ago.
I think they have an appeals procedure that might be worth using...set out your pets situation, medical history and the difficulty and unreasonableness of obtaining past cover.
You must also stress that this is a first claim of a ‘new’ ailment.
the very best of luck to you Steve!

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:41 pm**

claretblue wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:34 pm
We’re with Animal Friends and had an issue re cover a couple of tears ago.
I think they have an appeals procedure that might be worth using...set out your pets situation, medical history and the difficulty and unreasonableness of obtaining past cover.
You must also stress that this is a first claim of a ‘new’ ailment.
the very best of luck to you Steve!

We were with Animal Friends for our Cav and are for our cat. They’ve not been bad to be fair and paid out significant amounts for various ailments and a serious eye injury that the dog suffered (from the bloody cat scratching him).

However, we were advised against using them later on (when it was too late to move over because of the covered for life protection, which would be lost going elsewhere). I’ve since read quite a few poor stories about Animal Friends.

We’ve gone with Pet Plan for the new dog. More expensive but supposedly one of the best ones.

I’d definitely be appealing the decision and I’d also be putting in a data subject access request the the vets that are denying that you had used them.

Posted: **Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:45 pm**

cannot contribute a reply based on your circs, but as a general view, its all a massive scam.
vets charge exorbitant fees, ludicrous amounts. In turn pet insurers are ****. they set themselves up as care providers, should the need arise, but ultimately have every possible base covered in order not to assist.
Its a nice thing to give a dog a decent loving home, and many of us do so to rescue animals, but the care plans and medical aid side of things is nothing short of disgusting. vets/insurers, hang your collective heads in shame.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:03 am**

It's well known regarding any insurance really that always reluctance/refusal surfaces when claims go in, when you've also got the excess on top & weigh up the accumulation weekly/mthly deductions you are not saving, with the best intentions you plan ahead so big bills don't hit with delusional insurance, you are better off just saving the money yourself & paying direct if the worse happens if it doesn't the money is still there as a bonus.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:44 am**

Mine were brilliant last year when we lost our Golden Retreiver after a short illness. Simple form to complete then they worked with the vets and took care of everything for us and very sympathetic. Final bill was about £600 due to excess and her age, excess was £200 then I had to pay £25% of final vet bill.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:05 am**

Its a business at the end of the day. Although it does give peace of mind, up to the point when you have to claim, I've found pet insurance impossible to claim against.

Our beloved pooch, who is sadly no longer with us, was once suspected to have parvo virus so the vet suggested a series of blood tests, on the back of confirming we had insurance so the costs wouldn't be too bad. When the results came back negative it was a big relief, yet because it wasn't parvo virus, that was sufficient for the insurance company to refuse to cover the claim. The vet was shocked at the decision despite providing written letters to cover it was a valid course of diagnosis. Effectively it was us verses a big corporate, legally we couldn't have afforded to challenge it and for the amount it was for (£300ish)it wasn't worth it.

Ultimately its within their businesses interest to refuse as many claims as possible, otherwise it wouldn't be a business worth running, would it?

Ironically we have another dog now and have another insurance policy.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:12 am**

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:03 am
It's well known regarding any insurance really that always reluctance/refusal surfaces when claims go in, when you've also got the excess on top & weigh up the accumulation weekly/mthly deductions you are not saving, with the best intentions you plan ahead so big bills don't hit with delusional insurance, you are better off just saving the money yourself & paying direct if the worse happens if it doesn't the money is still there as a bonus.

Not always the case...my mum was paying 18 per month for her Border Collie. One particular day she, for reasons I won't go into in depth, ended up with a nasty break of her back leg and hip.....her insurance paid out the nearly £7k without hesitation....

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:43 am**

There's an insurance ombudsman you can go to if you think you've been treated unfairly (which obviously you have).

Step by step guide to fighting it here

https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/e ... ce-company

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:19 am**

Wile E Coyote wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:45 pm
cannot contribute a reply based on your circs, but as a general view, its all a massive scam.
vets charge exorbitant fees, ludicrous amounts. In turn pet insurers are ****. they set themselves up as care providers, should the need arise, but ultimately have every possible base covered in order not to assist.
Its a nice thing to give a dog a decent loving home, and many of us do so to rescue animals, but the care plans and medical aid side of things is nothing short of disgusting. vets/insurers, hang your collective heads in shame.

Great post mate...example drugs from a vets £90
Exaxtly the same Drugs sourced over the internet £30....vets along with pet insurance companies are thieves!

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:59 am**

There are winners and losers with insurance, but it brings peace of mind.

Our bills for our previous Cavalier would have run into the tens of thousands.

Assessments, treatment and medications for an ulcer following a cut on his eye. Allergy testing and ongoing medication. Assessments for heart murmur and further on going medication, for many years.

We paid some excesses but in the grand scheme, we benefitted hugely.

The cat however goes in once a year for annual boosters and that’s it. We’ve definitely lost on her.

I see it the same as insuring your property against damage or theft. It’s very rare that it’s needed, but when it is needed, you’re glad it’s there.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:00 am**

Steve1956 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:19 am
Great post mate...example drugs from a vets £90
Exaxtly the same Drugs sourced over the internet £30....vets along with pet insurance companies are thieves!

Agree with that, you can buy cheaper on line. You then get charged to get the prescription paper in order to order the items on line.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:03 am**

New puppy, I decided to look around as I'd become disappointed with the main stream vets around here.
I have registered my pup with Rose Valley Vets basically because its like returning to the good old days where you actually talk to the same vets and they get to know your pet.
So far I've been impressed and hope they can maintain the personal care.
For insurance I wanted simplicity and a for life policy.
I chose Waggel as they allow instant sight of your account and competitive rates.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:57 pm**

Steve1956 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:19 am
Great post mate...example drugs from a vets £90
Exaxtly the same Drugs sourced over the internet £30....vets along with pet insurance companies are thieves!

But who diagnoses what is wrong with the animal and recommends the treatment? That will be the vet who has spent 2 years studying for A levels followed by a 5 year Veterinary Science degree. You are paying for the vet's knowledge and training plus the expense of premises in which to treat your animal, the cost of the equipment needed to diagnose your animal and the staff required to run a veterinary practice.

Maybe you could set yourself up as a vet then you will be able to steal money from people. If you have a spare 7 years and the required level of intelligence to qualify of course.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:19 pm**

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 12:57 pm
But who diagnoses what is wrong with the animal and recommends the treatment? That will be the vet who has spent 2 years studying for A levels followed by a 5 year Veterinary Science degree. You are paying for the vet's knowledge and training plus the expense of premises in which to treat your animal, the cost of the equipment needed to diagnose your animal and the staff required to run a veterinary practice.

Maybe you could set yourself up as a vet then you will be able to steal money from people. If you have a spare 7 years and the required level of intelligence to qualify of course.

Even taking all that into consideration, it's extraordinary high, calling a spade a spade, they have got you in a awkward & difficult position you don't want to see the animal you've grown attached to suffer & it's exploited to there advantage, they could charge half of what there do & still make a comfortable honest living.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:43 pm**

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:19 pm
Even taking all that into consideration, it's extraordinary high, calling a spade a spade, they have got you in a awkward & difficult position you don't want to see the animal you've grown attached to suffer & it's exploited to there advantage, they could charge half of what there do & still make a comfortable honest living.

The median salary for a vet in the UK is around £50k. Entry level roles £30-£35k, more experienced vets (10 years +) £60k, those with 20 years + £70k. If you are advocating reducing their charge rates by 50%, and let's presume salaries pro rata by the same amount (it would be a greater drop as overheads remain the same, only the salary changes) then you are looking at an entry level vet at £15-17k, 10 years experience to earn £30k and 20 yers experience to earn £35k. Would you spend 5 years studying for this kind of salary?

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:07 pm**

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:43 pm
The median salary for a vet in the UK is around £50k. Entry level roles £30-£35k, more experienced vets (10 years +) £60k, those with 20 years + £70k. If you are advocating reducing their charge rates by 50%, and let's presume salaries pro rata by the same amount (it would be a greater drop as overheads remain the same, only the salary changes) then you are looking at an entry level vet at £15-17k, 10 years experience to earn £30k and 20 yers experience to earn £35k. Would you spend 5 years studying for this kind of salary?

I'm not begrudging what they earn Herts they thoroughly deserve to be paid well,i was angry about drugs being marked up from £30 to over £90 there is simply no need for that kind of profiteering they even charge you £15 to write you a prescription to beable to order them cheaper online,would you agree with me thats a rather greedy mark up!

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:15 pm**

My late uncle was a vet and told me their standard mark up on medicines was 100% from cost. So your £30 to £90 does seem excessive give that the retailer charging £30 have their margin built in to that price.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:15 pm**

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:43 pm
The median salary for a vet in the UK is around £50k. Entry level roles £30-£35k, more experienced vets (10 years +) £60k, those with 20 years + £70k. If you are advocating reducing their charge rates by 50%, and let's presume salaries pro rata by the same amount (it would be a greater drop as overheads remain the same, only the salary changes) then you are looking at an entry level vet at £15-17k, 10 years experience to earn £30k and 20 yers experience to earn £35k. Would you spend 5 years studying for this kind of salary?

That's still a decent wage & far higher than the minimum average & also you've got the markups on the drugs & nobody is telling me that the vets next door neighbour called Derek with the poorly cat or Sandra the hairdresser who cuts gills hair (vets wife) who's got a poorly rabbit don't get favours noticed by the books, all in all it's not a bad little earner.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:15 pm**

Steve1956 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:07 pm
I'm not begrudging what they earn Herts they thoroughly deserve to be paid well,i was angry about drugs being marked up from £30 to over £90 there is simply no need for that kind of profiteering they even charge you £15 to write you a prescription to beable to order them cheaper online,would you agree with me thats a rather greedy mark up!

I wouldn’t object to a 10% increase on the prescription products that they sell, it’s the huge mark ups that are the issue, particularly on top of consultation fees.

£44 today for our cats annual booster (which appears to be the average price). I wonder how much the product itself costs.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:28 pm**

A standard blood test cost us £130,then a few days later we was asked to take him back for another and for some reason this was £200 all this cost before a diagnosis,we pay it because we love our pets and unfortunately the insurance companies and vets know this and looking at these sort of prices exploit that love.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:12 pm**

Steve1956 wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:28 pm
A standard blood test cost us £130,then a few days later we was asked to take him back for another and for some reason this was £200 all this cost before a diagnosis,we pay it because we love our pets and unfortunately the insurance companies and vets know this and looking at these sort of prices exploit that love.

We lost our 10 year old Staffy in August to a tumour. Our regular vet had to refer us to a specialist to carry out a scan, but we already knew the tumour was malignant. The consultation cost was £290. Then the CT scan would have been £1700, rising to £2500 if the scanned his lungs for what was suspected to be secondary tumours. The cure and they used a phrase on the lines of wide area clearance. I asked what they meant and it entailed removing ribs and part of his chest wall. Cost for this? Intially £6k with the potential to increase to £9k. And if they confirmed secondary lung tumours after all this, they would be able to do nothing for him. We were not willing to put him through all that suffering with no guarantee of success and a significantly reduced quality life after. Given his age we took the decision that the best thing we could do for Ron was take him home, say our goodbyes in private and then make the dreaded trip to the vets where you walk out with a lead and a collar.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:13 pm**

It actually frightens me with the cost of vets. We adopted a 10 year old "heinz 57" that used to belong to Mrs Zlatan's grandmother who passed away in March - he was going to be put to sleep by another member of the family (long story). I dont regret taking him on (and I normally dislike dogs) because he's just such a lovely and loving chap and I enjoy walking him every night, but the thought of him falling ill, or having an accident scares me. We have looked into insurance and found out that most cover just "wont cover" anything because we have no history and because of his age so its pointless trying to find any (unless anyone can recommend a good insurer).

What frightens me more though is that this is human healthcare in many countries of the world - I feel lucky living in the UK

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:59 pm**

Zlatan wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:13 pm
It actually frightens me with the cost of vets. We adopted a 10 year old "heinz 57" that used to belong to Mrs Zlatan's grandmother who passed away in March - he was going to be put to sleep by another member of the family (long story). I dont regret taking him on (and I normally dislike dogs) because he's just such a lovely and loving chap and I enjoy walking him every night, but the thought of him falling ill, or having an accident scares me. We have looked into insurance and found out that most cover just "wont cover" anything because we have no history and because of his age so its pointless trying to find any (unless anyone can recommend a good insurer).

What frightens me more though is that this is human healthcare in many countries of the world - I feel lucky living in the UK

I can understand their argument about age but the stance about no history is new to me

Is it just a dog policy thing? We adopted rescue cats a few years ago, obviously history unknown, and our insurance paid out no problem when one of them went blind and landed us with a £2k bill

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:14 pm**

Croydon Claret wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 16, 2020 3:59 pm
I can understand their argument about age but the stance about no history is new to me

Is it just a dog policy thing? We adopted rescue cats a few years ago, obviously history unknown, and our insurance paid out no problem when one of them went blind and landed us with a £2k bill

No idea if it’s a dog thing. But when I owned a cat years ago we didn’t have any insurance and never needed any. She dropped down dead at the age of 14. They’re willing to provide cover but it’s extortionate IMO (>£35/month) and they state it’s because there’s no history.

Posted: **Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:50 pm**

We have Animal Friends Insurance for our Cat and I have to say they have been brilliant for us going back over 9 years.

Mao has a perforated ear drum that required monthly treatment then 6 monthly for a couple of years but we stopped that because she had a GA everytime and we thought it too stressful for her. She has continued to see the Vets but we flush them regularly.

The insurance has paid everything in full as continuity treatment aside from the first £100 every year and the age related % which we knew about.

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