• National Tier 4

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:17 pm**

Remember, folks. Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:17 pm**

Apparently there's an issue with the Random Policy Generator. An engineer has been dispatched.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:18 pm**

Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:08 pm
I’ve no idea if those statistics are correct. Elective work is back underway now after all being cancelled by the government, but as you’d expect hospitals have a massive backlog to get through.

You're doing it again , blaming the government.

I've got 3 close family members .

1, terminally ill lady , 77, should have had a scan to see how much more its spread. Cancelled. The government didn't cancel it.

2, 52 year old female, should have had a mammogram in June as shes in a high risk group. Cancelled. The government didnt cancel it.

3, 22 year old male found lump in testicle. No face to face appointment, just a video call after waiting for 5 weeks. Prescribed ointment. Since found second lump.
Shame on the doctor ( IN BURNLEY) who would not give him an examination. He went , and is still going through hell with worry.

And I'm supposed to be on a guilt trip for highlighting what, probably, who knows, hundreds of thousands of other families are currently going through.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:18 pm**

taio wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:16 pm
Agree. And that's what the Government and NHESI are trying to do. You will know that. Damned if they do, damed if they don't. As you're a VSM in the NHS you'll know that all too well.

I’m not saying the government did the wrong thing, I’m arguing with Ringo that decisions were made by government and not the NHS staff he is trying to blame.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:19 pm**

Sproggy wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:17 pm
Apparently there's an issue with the Random Policy Generator. An engineer has been dispatched.

I think they were about to go on air and realised they hadn’t cooked up a new three word slogan.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:21 pm**

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:57 pm

There are currently no excess deaths compared to the average of the past 10 years

Another lockdown will only exacerbate an already seriously dire situation.

Are you smoking crack?

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:22 pm**

PeterWilton wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:21 pm
Are you smoking crack?

No.

Please provide the appropriate graph. Clown.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:22 pm**

How anyone can be surprised at what an inept leader he would turn out to be is beyond me! He’ll be gone soon.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:22 pm**

Whitty Carnt quite get the charts to look as bad as he wants them to

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:25 pm**

I’m sure you will get over it Zlatan

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:27 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:46 pm
I’m a teacher and I don’t want any danger money. I just want to do my job properly. I realise I’m a younger one and that some older ones are more fearful, but you go into teaching to help people and you can’t do that from behind a computer screen.

I see the union are at it again though trying to shut the schools. They are a disgrace.

Excellent attitude ksrc and one that must have been so common when i was a pupil. Almost 60 years since I left school and my teachers have had such a large positive effect on those 60 years. A few I could be critical about but that may have been me rather than them.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:29 pm**

"Yes the government will have some questions to answer but"

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:30 pm**

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:57 pm
Agree.

The first lockdown was to save the NHS. Literally hundreds of 1000s of cancelled treatment, operations, screening, cancelled. 10s of thousands dying at home, suicide and depression going through the roof, a cancer time bomb waiting to explode, the NHS isn't saving us.

There are currently no excess deaths compared to the average of the past 10 years

Another lockdown will only exacerbate an already seriously dire situation.

I think this one will also be aimed at saving the NHS hopefully to allow it this time to care for Covid AND the other work the NHS does although it will still be under huge strain.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:30 pm**

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:57 pm
Agree.

The first lockdown was to save the NHS. Literally hundreds of 1000s of cancelled treatment, operations, screening, cancelled. 10s of thousands dying at home, suicide and depression going through the roof, a cancer time bomb waiting to explode, the NHS isn't saving us.

There are currently no excess deaths compared to the average of the past 10 years

Another lockdown will only exacerbate an already seriously dire situation.

I think this one will also be aimed at saving the NHS hopefully to allow it this time to care for Covid AND the other work the NHS does although it will still be under huge strain.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm**

Boris must be bad, even Burnley fans know how to run a country and Government in times of crisis.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:33 pm**

mdd2 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:30 pm
I think this one will also be aimed at saving the NHS hopefully to allow it this time to care for Covid AND the other work the NHS does although it will still be under huge strain.

I think it's most certainly to allow the NHS to cater for both Covid and non-covid cases.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:34 pm**

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:00 pm
He’s a blithering idiot.

Christ, what a year it’s been.

It would have been a horrendous year, whoever had been in power!

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:34 pm**

mdd2 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:27 pm
Excellent attitude ksrc and one that must have been so common when i was a pupil. Almost 60 years since I left school and my teachers have had such a large positive effect on those 60 years. A few I could be critical about but that may have been me rather than them.

There are some from when I was at school (admittedly more recently than you) that I thought to be terrible teachers or authoritarian, at the time.

When I look back now, I remember some of them as the best teachers that I ever had. They got more out of me than many other teachers had.

It’s funny, when you look back, that you realise that some of the criticisms that you had of teachers, were actually ill founded.

To be fair, there are still some that I look back on and think that they were terrible. Generally it was the ones who thought they were a bit cool and trendy and insisted on you using their first name.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:35 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:05 pm
I guess the teaching unions have thrown a spanner in the works

Agreed. Bloody Unions!

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:35 pm**

6.45 now.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:36 pm**

DCWat wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:14 pm
I’m not disputing your figures, Ringo, and the impact that such things will have upon people now abs in the future. I don’t think though that you help yourself in putting your point across by suggesting that you’ll ignore any future support of the the NHS, from the public.

The recognition of the NHS was not for the decision makers, be they Government, NHS Management or Civil Servants, it was for those on the front line, working in incredibly difficult circumstances and dealing with very distressing outcomes, for the most hardened professional.

Fair enough, I could have put it less bluntly I guess. Back at the beginning of all this I was put there with my younger son each night clapping (he for his big sister)

But I've become totally disillusioned by the way the NHS , and it is the NHS , not the government, that has neglected its primary duty. To treat ill people.

It took 5 weeks for the 22 year old family member to get a video call appointment after finding a lump in his testicle. Prescribed ointment and subsequently found another, same side. Simply appalling so called "service".

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:36 pm**

Nonayforever wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:32 pm
Boris must be bad, even Burnley fans know how to run a country and Government in times of crisis.

There’s not a lot Burnley fans don’t know

Sean Dyche = clueless
Boris Johnson = worse

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:37 pm**

Elizabeth wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:48 pm
Can someone tell me how much hospitals get paid for a Covid death instead of a Flu death

Answer
I think but do not know there will be additional pay for ITU admission but the rest used to come under block contract for emergencies

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:38 pm**

I reckon Boris just does this to **** the BBC off

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:38 pm**

The teaching union chap I saw being interviewed spoke of the massive increases of cases in secondary school, kids who will either have taken the virus home with them or spread it to people beyond their family or both.
Hardly a "disgrace" is it, pointing out a flaw in the government's latest half-assed effort. It will neither be a "national" nor a "full" lockdown and is therefore a simply delaying tactic to preserve, one assumes, Christmas for people who still give a **** about it.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:39 pm**

mdd2 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:37 pm

Everything is under block contract at the moment.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:39 pm**

NewClaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:35 pm
Agreed. Bloody Unions!

They're not wrong... Certainly universities should be shut.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:40 pm**

Longsider wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:40 pm
Key workers like teachers, NHS and supermarket workers are really on the front line while the rest of us work from home. These professions should be paid danger money. Imagine being a teacher and being in daily close contact with hundreds of super seeding children.

Depends on the business I suppose .....

I have worked throughout all this pandemic as a contractor at a Agriculture chemical plant ...... was hoping to be taken on as a full time employee .....

Applied for a job that was advertised about a month ago ..... spoke to plant manager last week who said “well, with all this uncertainty we’ve had to scrap that role for now.....”

This is after a record year of profits for the business and it’s been busier than ever - so now I have a choice of doing more work than people on full time contracts who are on more money than me .... or to just get on with it and carry on and be happy I’m still earning. I understand there are people in much worse positions - it shows what BIG businesses think though of those who’ve helped them through all this sh!t though.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:42 pm**

Grumps wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:39 pm
They're not wrong... Certainly universities should be shut.

100% all students could have taken a year out, I’ve a friend on Instagram that’s at uni and all his stories are typical student booze ups in packed bars

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:42 pm**

RingoMcCartney wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:36 pm
Fair enough, I could have put it less bluntly I guess. Back at the beginning of all this I was put there with my younger son each night clapping (he for his big sister)

But I've become totally disillusioned by the way the NHS , and it is the NHS , not the government, that has neglected its primary duty. To treat ill people.

It took 5 weeks for the 22 year old family member to get a video call appointment after finding a lump in his testicle. Prescribed ointment and subsequently found another, same side. Simply appalling so called "service".

You voted for 'em, pal. Try and console yourself by blaming PHE or the NHS for the government's failure all you like but you;re fooling nobody.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:42 pm**

Bigvince wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:34 pm
It would have been a horrendous year, whoever had been in power!

Don’t say that, we can pretend otherwise & just bash Boris that’s more fun.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:44 pm**

Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:39 pm
Everything is under block contract at the moment.

Pretty sure you will get additional payment for ITU admission

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:44 pm**

Sorry to hear that, Ringo.

I’ve seen two people of around my age die over the last couple of weeks from cancer. I’m not saying had it not been for COVID-19 they’d still be alive, but from the bits that I know, I think they might have stood a better chance.

I struggle to understand where the blame for this should lie (I know you’re saying it’s the NHS as opposed to The Government but I’m not sure what you’re basing this on).

I can understand criticisms of various leaders; I don’t envy anyone currently in a position to be making decisions at the moment that are impacting millions of people in uncountable ways. This really is can’t do right for doing wrong.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:45 pm**

mdd2 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:44 pm
Pretty sure you will get additional payment for ITU admission

And I’m 100% certain that at the moment you don’t.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:45 pm**

Looking forward to the latest buzzword and slogan.

“Circuit Breaker” has particularly tickled me as a designer of Circuit Breakers.

Is there a specific time range given to the term “shortly” ?

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:45 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:46 pm
I’m a teacher and I don’t want any danger money. I just want to do my job properly. I realise I’m a younger one and that some older ones are more fearful, but you go into teaching to help people and you can’t do that from behind a computer screen.

I see the union are at it again though trying to shut the schools. They are a disgrace.

Fair point but older teachers especially are potentially putting their lives on the line. I really hope that society, who is often quick to bash teachers as only in it for the holidays, actually give some recognition to what teachers are doing to support children and also keep the economy going.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:45 pm**

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:38 pm
The teaching union chap I saw being interviewed spoke of the massive increases of cases in secondary school, kids who will either have taken the virus home with them or spread it to people beyond their family or both.
Hardly a "disgrace" is it, pointing out a flaw in the government's latest half-assed effort. It will neither be a "national" nor a "full" lockdown and is therefore a simply delaying tactic to preserve, one assumes, Christmas for people who still give a **** about it.

No, the union is trying to close the schools, not simply pointing out a flaw in the strategy. It’s an active campaign that they’re trying to get people to sign up to. We know the damage caused by school closures last time. “Disgrace” was me being kind. Negligent might have been a better word, with respect to the kids.

Sorry, but I feel so strongly on this. I realise that many teachers have significant concerns, especially older and vulnerable ones. In that case there are things that can be done, like those teachers delivering lessons online from home whilst others supervise, that has been going on in my college since September. But I wonder if the union would be saying the same thing if us teachers didn’t get paid whilst we’re shut like many other workers. I can’t see it.

Thankfully the government have said keeping schools open is essential. Let’s hope it stays that way.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:49 pm**

ClaretEngineer wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:45 pm
Looking forward to the latest buzzword and slogan.

“Circuit Breaker” has particularly tickled me as a designer of Circuit Breakers.

Is there a specific time range given to the term “shortly” ?

I know. “Circuit breaker” for crying out loud. It’ll be “Pandemic Buster” next.

Who ya gonna call?

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:50 pm**

Rileybobs wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:59 pm
I wonder how many people tuned in, saw it was postponed until a time not known, and will now miss seeing this announcement from the horse’s mouth. It’s a good job this isn’t an important issue.

Everyone has so many things to do!! If you want to hear it live you’ll wait.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:52 pm**

Granny WeatherWax wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:45 pm
And I’m 100% certain that at the moment you don’t.

OK - so how do you budget for all the ITU work or have you now got a big deficit because for example-emergency work up 50% with no additional funding as it is block contract and elective surgery for eg hernias down 75% so losing money on all the elective work not done?

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:53 pm**

Elizabeth wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:25 pm
I’m sure you will get over it Zlatan

Of course I will but you’ll still be dense

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:53 pm**

ksrclaret wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:45 pm
No, the union is trying to close the schools, not simply pointing out a flaw in the strategy. It’s an active campaign that they’re trying to get people to sign up to. We know the damage caused by school closures last time. “Disgrace” was me being kind. Negligent might have been a better word, with respect to the kids.

Sorry, but I feel so strongly on this. I realise that many teachers have significant concerns, especially older and vulnerable ones. In that case there are things that can be done, like those teachers delivering lessons online from home whilst others supervise, that has been going on in my college since September. But I wonder if the union would be saying the same thing if us teachers didn’t get paid whilst we’re shut like many other workers. I can’t see it.

Thankfully the government have said keeping schools open is essential. Let’s hope it stays that way.

How much of the new academic year has been lost to pupils, since returning, do you think, KS?

I’m guessing that the impact on pupils (reduced lesson time, support, online learning, etc.) must be significant.

Presumably the impact of the last 8 months (and more) will have a long term impact on many children.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:54 pm**

Repeating yourself is not a good look

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:54 pm**

Couldn't agree more. France, Germany and the rest of Europe getting ready for total lock down and its Boris' fault. My Spanish friends over here are all blaming Boris for the lock downs in Madrid etc. Don't worry you lefties you can vote him out in four years time. But in the meantime keep venting your spleen on here, and I love it.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:55 pm**

mdd2 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:52 pm
OK - so how do you budget for all the ITU work or have you now got a big deficit because for example-emergency work up 50% with no additional funding as it is block contract and elective surgery for eg hernias down 75% so losing money on all the elective work not done?

Yep, huge deficits but NHSEI funding us to break even no matter what case mix comes through the door. Cost per case has gone out of the window for now, In normal times we will get paid more for those patients who’s treatment involves CCU, for example.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:57 pm**

Thought that ws how it orked hence in nornmal time the urge to get electu=ive wirk done and keep urgent medicine in medical and not surgical beds

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:58 pm**

I anticipated a general election resolving the national crisis of Brexit and a resulting Tory landslide
We have a similar crisis now and I anticipate another general election.
Just realised I’m getting ahead of myself. Labour Party couldn’t carry a paper bag never mind a nation behind them

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:59 pm**

mdd2 wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:57 pm
Thought that ws how it orked hence in nornmal time the urge to get electu=ive wirk done and keep urgent medicine in medical and not surgical beds

It’s not about money wanting to keep medical patients in medical beds, it’s about patient safety.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:59 pm**

Vino blanco wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:54 pm
Couldn't agree more. France, Germany and the rest of Europe getting ready for total lock down and its Boris' fault. My Spanish friends over here are all blaming Boris for the lock downs in Madrid etc. Don't worry you lefties you can vote him out in four years time. But in the meantime keep venting your spleen on here, and I love it.

Rishi Sunak is a far better politician and PM material than Boris and he has far more support within the party as a result. Boris won't last another year as they'd rather have him in charge. Just look at the surveys on Conhome to tell you all you need to know.

Posted: **Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:01 pm**

Burnley Ace wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 31, 2020 6:50 pm
Everyone has so many things to do!! If you want to hear it live you’ll wait.

Well actually I do have many things to do. Certainly not watching BBC all night when the football and rugby is on the other channel. My point is valid. A number of people will have missed this announcement because the delayed time wasn’t communicated.

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