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Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:10 pm
by ClaretTony
Increase to 5 subs being used rejected
Increase to 9 subs on bench passed
Introduction of concussion subs from early next year
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:13 pm
by claretonthecoast1882
You can hear Roy Scheider now.. "you're gonna need a bigger bench"
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:22 pm
by dsr
Concussion subs - does that mean 10 minutes assessment and then come back on, or does it mean an extra regular sub?
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:23 pm
by ClaretTony
dsr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:22 pm
Concussion subs - does that mean 10 minutes rest and then come back on, or does it mean an extra regular sub?
No details as yet as to how it will work
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:29 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
dsr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:22 pm
Concussion subs - does that mean 10 minutes assessment and then come back on, or does it mean an extra regular sub?
I'm gonna guess that if they'd been in place already, David Luiz would not of been allowed to carry on after that clash with Jimenez.
10 min assessment probably isn't feasible.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:29 pm
by aggi
dsr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 2:22 pm
Concussion subs - does that mean 10 minutes assessment and then come back on, or does it mean an extra regular sub?
The FA cup version is a bit weird. Two extra regular subs but the opposition also get extra subs.
The alternative is one extra sub (but not an extra one for the opposition).
They seem to be the two that have been authorised at the moment.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:07 pm
by Vegas Claret
it'll be interesting to see who makes that decision on a concussion sub........
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:21 pm
by JohnMac
If they ensure the concussed player cannot play for 'x' days following the injury it should discourage 'gamesmanship' (cheating).
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:53 pm
by thelaughingclaret
Open to abuse. Get a say leg injury (Or rib injury for Brady) and can’t carry on after all 3 subs made? Just go down holding your head. Easy. The big clubs will train their players to go down holding their head when they get injured.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:55 pm
by AndyClaret
thelaughingclaret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:53 pm
Open to abuse. Get a say leg injury (Or rib injury for Brady) and can’t carry on after all 3 subs made? Just go down holding your head. Easy. The big clubs will train their players to go down holding their head when they get injured.
Not if you can't play for 7 days afterwards.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:03 pm
by Boss Hogg
I wonder how many times Raheem Sterling, Dele Alli and Elneny will have concussion. Sounds a bit of a tick box idea.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:04 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
thelaughingclaret wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:53 pm
Open to abuse. Get a say leg injury (Or rib injury for Brady) and can’t carry on after all 3 subs made? Just go down holding your head. Easy. The big clubs will train their players to go down holding their head when they get injured.
If the rule makers do their job properly then it won't be an issue.
If a player goes down with a head injury, then it will require a full check up, restricted training and no matches for x amount of days.
I know you're just being cynical, but head injuries and long term problems are a big deal at present.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:12 pm
by Vegas Claret
JohnMac wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:21 pm
If they ensure the concussed player cannot play for 'x' days following the injury it should discourage 'gamesmanship' (cheating).
great point
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:16 pm
by Boss Hogg
There is so much focus on head injuries now in sport and there are currently Rugby players trying to sue in connection with this. Surely you know there are risks if you bang your head before you take part. Why is boxing allowed ?
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:18 pm
by tarkys_ears
Those rugby lot will have been on low wages so will be chasing free money.
I notice that bald one on the BBC gravytrain said he isn't. Probably because he's earning 10x more now on the BBC than he was playing rugby so is sorted.
As for us... how the ******** are we gonna get 9 on a bench? Do we even have that many players?
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:20 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
Boss Hogg wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:16 pm
There is so much focus on head injuries now in sport and there are currently Rugby players trying to sue in connection with this. Surely you know there are risks if you bang your head before you take part. Why is boxing allowed ?
Are you doing this on purpose?
It's about the failure to provide a duty of care by the sport, that's why the rugby players may have a case.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:43 pm
by stripes
they could have taken Elneny off to make sure he was ok after clashing with tarks
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:48 pm
by dsr
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:04 pm
If the rule makers do their job properly then it won't be an issue.
If a player goes down with a head injury, then it will require a full check up, restricted training and no matches for x amount of days.
I know you're just being cynical, but head injuries and long term problems are a big deal at present.
All that means is that players who have genuine head injuries will do all they can to hide them.
We're going to have one of two things here.
1. Players with head injuries aren't treated right.
2. Players without head injuries pretend they have got head injuries for a tactical advantage.
The only way to avoid both of those bad scenarios is for players to stop cheating and pretending to have head injuries when they haven't. But that would involve footballers being honest and mature, and far too many of them are cheating little babies for that to happen.
What they could do is say that anyone with say 3 concussion substitutions in the season is stood down for the rest of the season. After all, three concussions in a year is too many so the player probably ought to rest. And if some of them are pretend conditions, it serves them right.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:59 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
dsr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:48 pm
All that means is that players who have genuine head injuries will do all they can to hide them.
We're going to have one of two things here.
1. Players with head injuries aren't treated right.
2. Players without head injuries pretend they have got head injuries for a tactical advantage.
The only way to avoid both of those bad scenarios is for players to stop cheating and pretending to have head injuries when they haven't. But that would involve footballers being honest and mature, and far too many of them are cheating little babies for that to happen.
What they could do is say that anyone with say 3 concussion substitutions in the season is stood down for the rest of the season. After all, three concussions in a year is too many so the player probably ought to rest. And if some of them are pretend conditions, it serves them right.
It's going to require the FA/PL to put their big boy pants on and so this properly.
Head trauma experts at games to make the decision, but rotate them regularly so they're not always with the same clubs, so can't be influenced.
Anytime players clash heads or go down holding it then it's going to require the player to be looked at.
Players do need to grow up and to stop going down holding their heads when there's been very little touch, but if they're going to be taken off the pitch every time then they'll stop doing it eventually, especially if the team concedes a goal due to being a man down.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:25 pm
by ClaretTony
On the subject of bringing on five subs, for that to be passed it would have needed 14 clubs in favour. Reports suggest it was 10-10.
Change to five subs
Arsenal
Brighton
Chelsea
Everton
Liverpool
Manchester City
Manchester United
Southampton
Tottenham
West Brom
Keep three subs
Aston Villa
Burnley
Crystal Palace
Fulham
Leeds
Leicester
Newcastle
Sheffield United
West Ham
Wolves
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:33 am
by dsr
So they voted down the five subs rule, but introduced a new rule that allows two extra subs? Hmm.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:39 am
by aggi
dsr wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:48 pm
All that means is that players who have genuine head injuries will do all they can to hide them.
We're going to have one of two things here.
1. Players with head injuries aren't treated right.
2. Players without head injuries pretend they have got head injuries for a tactical advantage.
The only way to avoid both of those bad scenarios is for players to stop cheating and pretending to have head injuries when they haven't. But that would involve footballers being honest and mature, and far too many of them are cheating little babies for that to happen.
What they could do is say that anyone with say 3 concussion substitutions in the season is stood down for the rest of the season. After all, three concussions in a year is too many so the player probably ought to rest. And if some of them are pretend conditions, it serves them right.
Well that's why you have independent medical staff and real processes in place.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:23 pm
by dsr
aggi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:39 am
Well that's why you have independent medical staff and real processes in place.
If the player who is shamming says "I think I'm all right but I feel a bit funny", then the independent medical staff isn't going to insist he stays on. Medical staff are bound (in law and in practice) to be cautious with stuff like concussion.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:39 pm
by aggi
dsr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 12:23 pm
If the player who is shamming says "I think I'm all right but I feel a bit funny", then the independent medical staff isn't going to insist he stays on. Medical staff are bound (in law and in practice) to be cautious with stuff like concussion.
It's a lot more sophisticated than just asking how they feel. But if they do insist they may be concussed then the rest of the protocols would be put in place with limited training, no match involvement in the next week, etc so there would be repercussions to the pretence.
It's not going to be perfect but it's also not going to be loads of players being "concussed" at 80 minutes and perfectly fine and ready to play and train at the end of the match.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:24 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
Reports that this is being demanded again by the likes of Pep, Rangnick, Tuchel etc, they want it to become a permanent thing in light of covid and the amount of games in the season creating extra stress on the players bodies.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:29 pm
by tiger76
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:24 pm
Reports that this is being demanded again by the likes of Pep, Rangnick, Tuchel etc, they want it to become a permanent thing in light of covid and the amount of games in the season creating extra stress on the players bodies.
Yes I've seen the noises they've been making in recent days again, well we're at it why don't we give the big 6 a 1 goal start as well, maybe then they'll be happy, although I doubt it.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:33 pm
by Milltown1882
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:24 pm
Reports that this is being demanded again by the likes of Pep, Rangnick, Tuchel etc, they want it to become a permanent thing in light of covid and the amount of games in the season creating extra stress on the players bodies.
Rangnick also wants the League Cup to be deleted from the calendar, Klopp wants to pick and choose when Liverpool play as and when it suits them. Pep and Tuchel moan about everything possible. Wish they all would’ve f****d off to the ‘Super League’.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:37 pm
by tiger76
Milltown1882 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:33 pm
Rangnick also wants the League Cup to be deleted from the calendar, Klopp wants to pick and choose when Liverpool play as and when it suits them. Pep and Tuchel moan about everything possible. Wish they all would’ve f****d off to the ‘Super League’.
Yes I'm sick to the back teeth of them all. and if they want to go and form this ESL, then by my guest, but they'll need to forfeit their PL places, and if it all goes pear shaped don't expect to be welcomed back into the fold.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2021 9:37 pm
by gandhisflipflop
Another year another rule change. It’s becoming so far removed from the game I grew up with with each passing year, and i only grew up in the 90s!
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:28 am
by basil6345789
Let's go back to 1 sub, for injuries, maybe plus a goalie for same reason.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:58 am
by dsr
GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:24 pm
Reports that this is being demanded again by the likes of Pep, Rangnick, Tuchel etc, they want it to become a permanent thing in light of covid and the amount of games in the season creating extra stress on the players bodies.
They are liars, every one of them, if they claim it is to avoid stress on the players' bodies. If a player is under stress for playing too many matches, then leave him out of some of them. Playing 2 out of 3 is a much more effective stress reliever than getting trained up, warmed up, playing 60 minutes and coming off three times, even though the actual playing time is the same.
They want 5 subs because they think it will give them a competitive advantage. That's all there is to it.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:15 pm
by joey13
Milltown1882 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 8:33 pm
Rangnick also wants the League Cup to be deleted from the calendar, Klopp wants to pick and choose when Liverpool play as and when it suits them. Pep and Tuchel moan about everything possible. Wish they all would’ve f****d off to the ‘Super League’.
Rangnick only been here 5 minutes, if they don’t like it why not just get another job , say care work see how they get on with those hours with minimum pay .
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 12:33 pm
by Cirrus_Minor
All of this and many more recent ‘innovations’ is turning it into a cheap music hall act.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:52 pm
by tarkys_ears
Does anyone even bother watching any teams but us anymore?
I'm sick of all of them. The PL are ruining themselves!
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:31 pm
by GodIsADeeJay81
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:52 pm
by Taffy on the wing
Massive advantage for the rich clubs.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:05 pm
by AlargeClaret
9 subs is nonsensical , the big boys simply want every option covered. The 5 subs rule is likely only a matter of time too. Concussion subs is a farce too , how long before that’s abused to within an inch of its life .
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:48 pm
by boatshed bill
tarkys_ears wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 1:52 pm
Does anyone even bother watching any teams but us anymore?
I'm sick of all of them. The PL are ruining themselves!
Agreed, it's becoming a joke now.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:52 pm
by boatshed bill
Concussion?
Surely any damage is done by the time the medics have had a look?
Does taking it easy for a few days really make any difference?
From experience: I've had a few head injuries in football....
smelling salts poked up the nose and the old "how many fingers" routine, OK, you can carry on
Never did me any harm
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:02 pm
by Jimmymaccer
basil6345789 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 24, 2021 11:28 am
Let's go back to 1 sub, for injuries, maybe plus a goalie for same reason.
And goalies can’t wear gloves!
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:07 am
by bfcmik
I see at the bottom of that article that they plan to change the wording of the offside law and there is a proposal to change it to being onside when any part of the attacker's body is level with any part of the 2nd last defender (which I assume would normally include the goalkeeper)
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 5:34 am
by Petersa
Its having the 9 available I get even less. If you have the 5 that can come on why have the other 4 to sit and twiddle their thumbs?
An excuse all this for lots of time wasting, 5 times someone comes off, waves to the crowd, hugs all his teammates, hugs the manager, hands over and puts the captains armband on a colleague, thats best part of 5 minutes of a game gone
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:11 am
by Vegas Claret
you have a 25 man squad, should be able to use all 25 whenever you want, have games last 4 hours and have advert breaks........
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:47 am
by duncandisorderly
I'd like it if they banned all outfield subs after the 75th minute, regardless of injury, concussion or tactics.
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:15 am
by longsidetrumpet
Noticed watching some if the later stage AFCON matches there were lots of players going down with ‘head injuries’ in the box, the defending team’s players staying down particularly when there was going to be a corner x I’m sure that has been coached into them to take the momentum away from the attacking side. And because it’s a ‘head injury’ health protocols have to be strictly followed
Re: Subs changes in Premier League
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:52 am
by dougcollins
Was the subs rule specifically for Newcastle?