The rules on signing European players is coming into force soon and already Manure are finding a way to circumvent them
Personally, I think the Italian model where you can only have a certain number of overseas players and no more in your squad was the way to go. The development of English youngsters is vital to improve our national team and if teams flood their squads with expensive foreign imports, this blocks off developing young home grown players.

I used to think the same many years ago, I’ve just given up to it now as a lost cause.
There’s very little left that’s English about the bigger clubs in the UK apart from its fans, they will all be voting and pulling in the same direction on things like this.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:39 am

The rules on signing European players is coming into force soon and already Manure are finding a way to circumvent them
Personally, I think the Italian model where you can only have a certain number of overseas players and no more in your squad was the way to go. The development of English youngsters is vital to improve our national team and if teams flood their squads with expensive foreign imports, this blocks off developing young home grown players.

Have to agree with the model and the sentiment, but let’s not forget we are talking about Manyoo here..... like most clubs (if not all) they will have zero interest in improving and developing young English talent unless they were their players. All manyoo care about, is manyoo.

bobinho wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:18 am

Have to agree with the model and the sentiment, but let’s not forget we are talking about Manyoo here..... like most clubs (if not all) they will have zero interest in improving and developing young English talent unless they were their players. All manyoo care about, is manyoo.

In fairness can you name any club in the country who puts England before themselves ?

In fairness.... no.

In Uniteds defence do any other club produce and play so many top class British players themselves?

For balance, does any other English club discard more young English talent than manyoo?

Nowts perfect, but I would like there to be a rule that is so well constructed and written that it can’t be circumvented in any way.

A maximum of seven non British players in the first team (not squad) for any competitive game. That’s a start, feel free to add your two pennorth.

I don't know what Manchester United have done but whatever it is it opens up that route for everyone else to sign players in the same way so what's the problem.

It’s not the job of the PL to sort the mess of the national team out is it? I’d rather focus on Burnley developing good players, I’m not bothered where they come from.

International football isn’t what it used to be. I still enjoy watching the tournaments, but more and more as a neutral, as I couldn’t care less about England doing well.

Surely if our young prospects were better than those from abroad then our clubs wouldn't be looking elsewhere.
Maybe look at sports in English schools for the problem.

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:29 am

In Uniteds defence do any other club produce and play so many top class British players themselves?

Chelsea have a fair number of English players coming through their youth system, admittedly a lot of them are sold on, but they do develop the players initially.

United don't have the home-grown production line that they did in the 90's, but they still produce a fair number of English youngsters, Greenwood & Rashford are the 2 most prominent ATM.

The reality is if you're good enough you will make it at the top level, and if you aren't you won't, just like any other industry,

Why should the PL clubs be forced to accept a lesser standard of player in order to ensure they meet a % of English players in their squads, as someone mentioned earlier in this thread the state of the national team isn't their problem, it's the FA and Gareth Southgate's problem.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:09 am

Surely if our young prospects were better than those from abroad then our clubs wouldn't be looking elsewhere.
Maybe look at sports in English schools for the problem.

True, I think a lot of boils down to true natural talent, if you go to some poor deprived South American countries in the markets outside the stalls you’ll see children no older than tots bouncing oranges up & down on there feet & knees over here you are more likely to see children playing video games on a Xbox or PlayStation, the climate plays a part the children can play outdoors more.

bobinho wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:50 am

Nowts perfect, but I would like there to be a rule that is so well constructed and written that it can’t be circumvented in any way.

A maximum of seven non British players in the first team (not squad) for any competitive game. That’s a start, feel free to add your two pennorth.

In addition, a maximum of 3 players out on loan by any club. If a club has more than 3 that aren't in their own squad, they must release them rather than "stack them up" and monopolise them to stop them playing for their direct competition.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:18 pm

True, I think a lot of boils down to true natural talent, if you go to some poor deprived South American countries in the markets outside the stalls you’ll see children no older than tots bouncing oranges up & down on there feet & knees over here you are more likely to see children playing video games on a Xbox or PlayStation, the climate plays a part the children can play outdoors more.

When were you last in South America?

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:35 pm

When were you last in South America?

You don’t need to go to South America to know that the kids over there practice kick ups with oranges at market stalls.

I'd question the relevance of climate, though.
Poor weather never stopped us as kids. Half the football world is in cold climates.

F the national team, I only care about club football.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:11 pm

F the national team, I only care about club football.

Brilliant

The problem with this situation is that they will pluck even more British players away from the likes of us. Whilst they were creaming the European lads into their systems clubs below them had a chance of getting the odd gem. Those odds have diminished.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:11 pm

F the national team, I only care about club football.

But it was winning the World Cup in 1966 that made football in England and that applies to other European nations.

If the kids of today are playing Xbox then sheer apathy and price will kill the golden goose

All this "playing x-box" argument is nonsense.

A third of kids aged 5-10 play football regularly. It's probably better that kids who aren't really into football do have something else to do so coaches can focus on those who don't want to be there.

Also PE in primary schools is far superior to what it was in the past with many schools employing qualified coaches to teach classes.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 7:18 pm

All this "playing x-box" argument is nonsense.

A third of kids aged 5-10 play football regularly. It's probably better that kids who aren't really into football do have something else to do so coaches can focus on those who don't want to be there.

Also PE in primary schools is far superior to what it was in the past with many schools employing qualified coaches to teach classes.

So what do you think is going wrong?
Perhaps nothing, I don't know?

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:42 pm

So what do you think is going wrong?
Perhaps nothing, I don't know?

Depends what you are referring to as going wrong?

Whatever it is, I'm fairly sure that no potential professional footballers have been lost to an x-box.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:20 pm

Depends what you are referring to as going wrong?

Whatever it is, I'm fairly sure that no potential professional footballers have been lost to an x-box.

Why do the "big" clubs bring in so many young players from abroad?
Are these young players better than what we have?
Does playing "keepy-uppy" with an orange make a lad a better player?
Why do foreign clubs not take on many UK lads?

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:35 pm

Why do the "big" clubs bring in so many young players from abroad?
Are these young players better than what we have?
Does playing "keepy-uppy" with an orange make a lad a better player?
Why do foreign clubs not take on many UK lads?

Being really simple about it, the world's getting smaller and the big clubs can afford to scout all over the world and compete for the best players in every country. Stands to reason that there will be some better players across the globe than some players in England.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:43 pm

Being really simple about it, the world's getting smaller and the big clubs can afford to scout all over the world and compete for the best players in every country. Stands to reason that there will be some better players across the globe than some players in England.

Yes, I totally get that. can't say i particularly like it though.
Wasn't the rule on non-EU players once that they had to meet certain quality criteria? Something that may not apply to young players?

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 10:47 pm

Yes, I totally get that. can't say i particularly like it though.
Wasn't the rule on non-EU players once that they had to meet certain quality criteria? Something that may not apply to young players?

They have to be granted a work permit. Of course it's never an issue for the top teams but can be for lower ones... How else would Manchester City have a youth team? Not sure Aidan O'neill would have got one for us again if he stayed.. Yet is no problem for the big teams to sign a foreigner with no intent to play him (Aaron Mooy).

Big factor is whether they are an international for their own country and how often they play.

There's heavy restrictions nowadays on signing u18 players oversees. You can't poach players in youth contracts like you once could.

What you can do is poach them before they sign a youth contract which is something some teams have done to us.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:18 pm

True, I think a lot of boils down to true natural talent, if you go to some poor deprived South American countries in the markets outside the stalls you’ll see children no older than tots bouncing oranges up & down on there feet & knees over here you are more likely to see children playing video games on a Xbox or PlayStation, the climate plays a part the children can play outdoors more.

I think Harry kane has always enjoyed a gaming session and he's not to bad is he??

Down_Rover wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:31 pm

But it was winning the World Cup in 1966 that made football in England and that applies to other European nations.

If the kids of today are playing Xbox then sheer apathy and price will kill the golden goose

I’d rather us survive relegation this season than England win the Euros, International football in general is a hinderance to club football.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:53 pm

I’d rather us survive relegation this season than England win the Euros, International football in general is a hinderance to club football.

Can't disagree with you there KRBFC, my priority will always be Burnley before the national team, and I guess that'll be the case for the vast majority of football fans.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:15 pm

Can't disagree with you there KRBFC, my priority will always be Burnley before the national team, and I guess that'll be the case for the vast majority of football fans.

It's often said that the national team is mainly supported by fans of lower league & non-league teams, judging by the banners & flags on display at a tournament or vital away qualifier. Do the fans of top 6 clubs spend all their money on European matches or is it that Premier league teams fans have this attitude of their club staying in the Premier League Is the most important thing? I'm sure it didn't used to be like this.
First world (Premier League) problems eh? It's a real bugger isn't it?