• Very hard to take a small town club to next level

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:20 pm**

Incredibly difficult and one of the very few times it was managed was when our rivals down the M65 did it for a number of successful years. Ultimately like other town clubs like Bolton and Wigan it ended up in failure.
One of the biggest factors is the lack of a massive catchment area to get new fans on board. Its incredibly difficult to "take fans off other clubs" thus you can't increase capacity as you can't fill a bigger ground on a regular basis.
Obviously other factors come into it, being a premiership club, play more attractive football, have more profile better players.
Massive task and massive ask and yes money investment will help but they can't buy another 10,000 - 15,000 regulars and it won't suddenly make us a club who's best players can't be poached anymore.
Exciting to watch how this plays out.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:34 pm**

It’s naive to think that the big clubs thrive in the 21st century because of fans in their ‘catchment area’ or that bums on seats in the stadium has any bearing on whether a club sinks or swims financially

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:36 pm**

You don't need any fans in the stadium to be successful. Fans come due to the club being a success - the club doesn't become a success due to the number of fans in the stadium.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:38 pm**

Rovers 'took' fans from other clubs and by all accounts there have been rovers fans at TM because their kids have wanted to come here.

Staying in the PL with good cup runs and the odd foray into Europe will attract fans, especially if the likes of Rovers keep dossing in the championship.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:40 pm**

s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:20 pm
Incredibly difficult and one of the very few times it was managed was when our rivals down the M65 did it for a number of successful years. Ultimately like other town clubs like Bolton and Wigan it ended up in failure.
One of the biggest factors is the lack of a massive catchment area to get new fans on board. Its incredibly difficult to "take fans off other clubs" thus you can't increase capacity as you can't fill a bigger ground on a regular basis.
Obviously other factors come into it, being a premiership club, play more attractive football, have more profile better players.
Massive task and massive ask and yes money investment will help but they can't buy another 10,000 - 15,000 regulars and it won't suddenly make us a club who's best players can't be poached anymore.
Exciting to watch how this plays out.

Different world to when Uncle Jack took over wit Rovers. Football is a world market now. Jack could not keep pace as football took off. It was not just age and I’ll health that took him off. He left enough for a good management take over, but sadly for him not a family interested in continuing his mission. The remaining Walkers got out as soon as ever they were able to legally.

Very different to what ALK plan. They are not an individual perusing a dream they are a group who see potential markets left right and centre by having a major presence in the UK in sport. Sport opens a lot of other doors.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:40 pm**

Selby Claret wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:34 pm
It’s naive to think that the big clubs thrive in the 21st century because of fans in their ‘catchment area’ or that bums on seats in the stadium has any bearing on whether a club sinks or swims financially

True. It isn't so much the bums on seats so much as the merchandising of merchandise that brings in extra pennies. I suspect ALK will be hoping to get more people in the worldwide audience to want to buy a genuine BFC shirt, cup, scarf or whatever. Our shop isn't great at bigging itself up to attract that online market

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:42 pm**

Next Level is one of those phrases which has passed into football lexicon. People say it all the time, teams are looking for it .... but really it’s utterly meaningless and rarely applied.

What does it mean? What is our “Next Level”? We’ve had two top 10 finishes in the last three years and appeared in Europe. We’re in the same division as United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, Wolves and Leicester - which of those nine could we expect to supplant in the next few years and finish above regularly?

Here’s the thing. There’s going to be a point soon where there are 20 teams in the Premier League all owned by very, very wealthy people. Guess what? At the end of the year three still go down. Our aim should and always be to not be in that three and have the occasional cup run. Beyond that, without billionaire Chelsea/City style owners this is it. We’ll have good players, we’ll sell them and hopefully we’ll replace them. There is no other level.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:49 pm**

Yes, it is very hard to move up a level, but I actually think we have a better chance of moving up from where we are at present because we have the advantage of being near the town centre which has more potential than Bolton Wanderers stadium, which is in the middle of nowhere and thus isn't a " pull" for a day or weekend out.
There's many, many fans with time & money who would be willing to make a weekend of it when a match takes place. There would obviously have to be a substantial improvement in all the facilities, both in the town and stadium, but it can be done.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:51 pm**

Easier to attract the next generation of young fans from the surrounding area's, away from the fashionable top six clubs if we are competitive in the Premier league.
I'd guess that the New owners will be looking to progress the club through recruitment, maybe identifying younger potential to progress and sell on at a profit, national and international through the recruitment tools they operate, maybe use this as an opportunity to display their set up to a world wide audience?

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:53 pm**

s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:20 pm
Incredibly difficult and one of the very few times it was managed was when our rivals down the M65 did it for a number of successful years. Ultimately like other town clubs like Bolton and Wigan it ended up in failure.
One of the biggest factors is the lack of a massive catchment area to get new fans on board. Its incredibly difficult to "take fans off other clubs" thus you can't increase capacity as you can't fill a bigger ground on a regular basis.
Obviously other factors come into it, being a premiership club, play more attractive football, have more profile better players.
Massive task and massive ask and yes money investment will help but they can't buy another 10,000 - 15,000 regulars and it won't suddenly make us a club who's best players can't be poached anymore.
Exciting to watch how this plays out.

a bunch of money men just bet 170 million on you being completely wrong. I hope they are right !!

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:54 pm**

One thing that would take us to the next tier of "the promised land" would be to win something...perhaps even a small step like the League Cup (in its next disguise), alert a wider audience of what and where we are.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:03 pm**

The “next level” may be below the level you are currently on

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:04 pm**

We all need to remember the big difference when Rovers were riding high was that the Clarets were very much in the arse end of the football league pyramid, whilst they had a shiny new 30,000 seater stadium with a tremendous amount of empty cheap seats available with no season ticket holders.
I remember them advertising the cheap seats and season tickets in the Burnley Express whilst also trying to bus in support from many outlaying areas including Lancaster- Morecambe etc.
By the way hope no one on here bought one.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:08 pm**

It’s worth remembering that when Rovers won the League they spent more money to do so than any other team had spent before - ever - globally - ever

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:22 pm**

For a club like Burnley, with it's small post industrial town base and it's meaningful historic successes fading into the mists of time (in that they are all pre Premier League) it is quite possible, if not probable, that this current level is our top level and the task will be to try and extend our visit to this level for as long as possible whilst, as mentioned earlier, maybe trying to increase our name recognition be winning one of the cups and/or getting through the group stages of a European competition.
The (very) occasional flirt with a top 4 or 7 place and more frequent flirts with the bottom 3 places will be our likely foreseeable PL future

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:23 pm**

I think live for the present and not the past or future

Enjoy now

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:24 pm**

I hope the board's target is to win the Premier League and then the Champions League. It may be a 10 year target, and it may not happen, but I very much doubt any manager or board that have a bit about them aim to stay where they are.

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:30 pm**

To me we are at the next level every season we remain in the Premier League. If those Top 4 Clubs would stop taking the FA Cup and League Cup seriously we might have an outside chance of nicking one at some point.

Our capacity at Turf Moor exceeds our attendance so is there a need for bigger stands and more seats?

Improve the squad depth, bring the youngsters through compete with the 13 other Clubs in 'our league' and hand out a bloody nose or two to the big lads. That'll keep me happy.

UTC

Posted: **Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:32 pm**

what happened to "dare to dream" ?

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:18 am**

The next level would be to have a team that is basically guaranteed Prem success every year. Look at a team like Everton who have done nothing for the last 30 years really. Odd cup runs and a daunt into Europe but nothing ever special. But they remain and are one of those teams that are never ever doubted or tipped for relegation. If we can get to that status where even with a poor season we are still mid-table then we are at the next level. A side that hopes to be in the top 7 and pushing for Europe and if not then mid-table without any troubles of survival. That is the next level for us.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:30 am**

Socrates wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:42 pm
Next Level is one of those phrases which has passed into football lexicon. People say it all the time, teams are looking for it .... but really it’s utterly meaningless and rarely applied.

What does it mean? What is our “Next Level”? We’ve had two top 10 finishes in the last three years and appeared in Europe. We’re in the same division as United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, Wolves and Leicester - which of those nine could we expect to supplant in the next few years and finish above regularly?

Here’s the thing. There’s going to be a point soon where there are 20 teams in the Premier League all owned by very, very wealthy people. Guess what? At the end of the year three still go down. Our aim should and always be to not be in that three and have the occasional cup run. Beyond that, without billionaire Chelsea/City style owners this is it. We’ll have good players, we’ll sell them and hopefully we’ll replace them. There is no other level.

Leicester would disagree.

And winning a cup would be a next level. Getting into europe regular would be a next level. Dare to dream and all that.

Nobody is saying it will definitely happen. But its definitely possible.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:32 am**

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:32 pm
what happened to "dare to dream" ?

With the pessimists on here, we would have been lucky to get out of the fourth division in their eyes.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:47 am**

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:32 am
With the pessimists on here, we would have been lucky to get out of the fourth division in their eyes.

you mean we aren't in the 4th ? there are some days I think we are with some of the posts on here

Anyway, let's hope 2021 is superb for the Clarets

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:17 am**

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:30 am
Leicester would disagree.

And winning a cup would be a next level. Getting into europe regular would be a next level. Dare to dream and all that.

Nobody is saying it will definitely happen. But its definitely possible.

Not sure where the comparison of us to Leicester can begin?

We’re still a town of 80,000 people with the poorest owners in the league (I think?), whereas they are a city four times the size with an owner worth three billion.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:18 am**

s6t9a2f3f wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:20 pm
Massive task and massive ask and yes money investment will help but they can't buy another 10,000 - 15,000 regulars and it won't suddenly make us a club who's best players can't be poached anymore.
Exciting to watch how this plays out.

You do realise that by adding 10-15k to the gate, it would only add an extra £3-4.5 million to our annual income? Seems like a lot of work for very little (in real terms) reward.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:25 am**

Filling a football stadium with 20,000, or filling one with 30,000 isn’t a massive difference nowadays. Sure, 60,000 versus 20,000 is huge as it also included much greater sponsorship and corporate income.

That said, what Burnley aren’t able to do with our limited capacity is make inroads into potential future fans further afield, or maybe even convincing fans on from our doorstep through aggressive marketing.

We are the only Premier League club in Lancashire!

Once you have kids hooked on a team it’s difficult for them to change allegiances, so it gives you a bigger fanbase for years.

I doubt it’s a priority for the club.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:42 am**

Winstonswhite wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:17 am
Not sure where the comparison of us to Leicester can begin?

We’re still a town of 80,000 people with the poorest owners in the league (I think?), whereas they are a city four times the size with an owner worth three billion.

The point is date to dream.

The size of the town will be irrelevant. Times are changing. As above stadium capacity is pretty irrelevant too. Even more so right now.

When we have a manager as good as ours. And ambition anything’s possible.

Will we win the league? Unlikely.

Can we win a cup. Get in Europe. Stay at this level. Develop high quality young players? Definitely.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:46 am**

Yes but hardly a dream is it- It’s the same level. Not doing a Leicester.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:47 am**

ralph8 wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:04 pm
We all need to remember the big difference when Rovers were riding high was that the Clarets were very much in the arse end of the football league pyramid, whilst they had a shiny new 30,000 seater stadium with a tremendous amount of empty cheap seats available with no season ticket holders.
I remember them advertising the cheap seats and season tickets in the Burnley Express whilst also trying to bus in support from many outlaying areas including Lancaster- Morecambe etc.
By the way hope no one on here bought one.

I contacted the Citizen free newspaper to ask why they had wrapped mine in sh1t, a 4 page cover advertising Premier League football at Deadwood, and asked them not to do it again.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:53 am**

Winstonswhite wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:46 am
Yes but hardly a dream is it- It’s the same level. Not doing a Leicester.

I’d say winning something is taking us to a next level. Qualifying for Europe proper. Consistently top ten. All next level. Producing multiple young players. Next level.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:02 am**

Consistently top 10.
Competing in cup competitions at the later stages.
Developing and keeping young potential players.
Attracting players earlier in their careers.
Keep modernising and improving, particularly the ground. Great building blocks are in place keep adding more.
Most importantly back the manager in the transfer market.

All the these things will help anything else is a bonus.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:02 am**

Socrates wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:42 pm
What does it mean? What is our “Next Level”? We’ve had two top 10 finishes in the last three years and appeared in Europe. We’re in the same division as United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Everton, Wolves and Leicester - which of those nine could we expect to supplant in the next few years and finish above regularly?

Interesting that you mention Wolves and Leicester. Wolves were in League 1 in the 13/14 season and after a little investment are now in your Premier League 'top 9'. Surely that demonstrates what a bit of good investment could potentially do. I understand what you are saying about the 'big 6/7' as financially they are next level again, but there's no reason why we couldn't have a similar standing to the likes of Wolves.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:58 am**

Vegas Claret wrote: ↑
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:53 pm
a bunch of money men just bet 170 million on you being completely wrong. I hope they are right !!

That is 50 million pounds less than Aston Villa have spent over the last two seasons on player transfers! Not being negative, just putting it into perspective.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:24 pm**

Hopefully, our new owners will think about the fans and make Turf Moor a much more attractive place to visit. Aside from at some stage possibly replacing or upgrading the two old stands, what Americans are really good at is entertainment. Pre-match and HT entertainment is often on show at Burnley, even if is was only a few dancers, a band or a five a side game. The Americans could bring that up to date with technology such as drone shows, (No, not the bombing of civilians that they are so good at.) like the one in Edinburgh last night for New Year.

With that and their ability to merchandise better, they will hopefully make Turf Moor a more attractive place to visit for the upcoming generation and make existing supporters more appreciated.

Exciting times ahead. Let's just not expect too much too soon. Let's give them a chance to get their feet under the table. The start of next season seems a fair honeymoon period.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:10 pm**

Cheaper Twix would help.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:29 pm**

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:02 am
Interesting that you mention Wolves and Leicester. Wolves were in League 1 in the 13/14 season and after a little investment are now in your Premier League 'top 9'. Surely that demonstrates what a bit of good investment could potentially do. I understand what you are saying about the 'big 6/7' as financially they are next level again, but there's no reason why we couldn't have a similar standing to the likes of Wolves.

Trouble is, virtually all of the PL teams have wealthy investors and every season three will go down. There will soon come a point where a club buying some very good players will get relegated simply because too many clubs are vying to get to the 'next level' and the division can't accommodate them all.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:32 pm**

I'm hoping that it's not just a scouting and development project for these 'guys', with a 1st team transfer budget aimed only at maintaining a premier league position to aid recruitment.
I'd like to think that having seen how well we do with so little, a 'reasonable' amount of investment in the 1st team could catapult us to a level we thought unachievable previously.
Given our achievements and progression over the years, always while challenging bigger clubs with bigger budgets, we're here today. No reason why, providing we continue to employ managers of the quality we've had, we cannot compete for at least a Europa league qualification. We just seem to be able to get much more bang for our buck than most others.
These days, what is the age range of supporter that needs convincing that with Burnley, anything is possible?

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:43 pm**

Swansea spring to mind as a similar sized club. They went on to win the League cup then it all fell apart.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:40 pm**

StuffyClaret wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:18 am
You do realise that by adding 10-15k to the gate, it would only add an extra £3-4.5 million to our annual income? Seems like a lot of work for very little (in real terms) reward.

Yes thats why I think the new owners might try and get more revenue going down what the boxing model is. Ok AJ might easily sell out the O2 for a title defence at around 18,000 people BUT the main revenue is the pay per view streams. Maybe the new owners are going to be content with our live audience and go down creating / increasing the virtual revenue especially internationally and america ??
Maybe thats the future outside the major global clubs and maybe covid has produced viewing figures where virtual season tickets could be a major revenue contributors for "smaller" clubs looking at getting to the next level.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:54 pm**

Next level for me would be the ability to stay in this division without Dyche and the miracles he performs every year because at the moment he is the only reason we have lasted so long in the Premier League with our current squad and budget.

The risk is we spend more on transfer fees and wages than we can afford should we get it wrong and we end up going down with an unmanageable wage bill and overpaid players we cant get rid of. That is when we risk becoming the next basket case of a club

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:00 pm**

To be similar to Wolves we need the backing of a Billionaire and a football super agent with links to unlimited talent that sits on the Board who can persuade his best clients to sign exclusively for his Club.

Posted: **Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:08 pm**

Newcastle a largish toon are having difficulty moving up a level and their neighbours Sunderland languish in level 3. Be careful what you wish for, a decent stay in the PL is some achievement.

Very hard to take a small town club to next level

Very hard to take a small town club to next level

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