One mans problem is another mans incredible achievement. Perspective wise, despite him being a plug and play merchant, with a load of journeymen, as you put it, he has the team once again towards the top of the mini league that the clubs spending would have them expected to finish in.Right_winger wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:28 amThink your watching a different game from me then as Wood has been tame.
Give Vydra a run of games. He’s not even match what and offers more threat than Wood.
Dyche is mainly the problem through. It’s the same plug and play tactics week in week out. No adaptation to opposition or anything. A squad of 15, 30+ journeymen is a Dyche squad
Vydra
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Re: Vydra
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Re: Vydra
You don't play your way into form if your soo far out of form. You're out of form if your fatigued or just not enjoying playing at the moment.Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:29 amI certainly don’t think Vydra is better than Wood.
Wood’s record at this level, prior to this season anyway, is very good.
The problem is his confidence is on the floor. Do we stick with him and hope he pulls through or take him out of the firing line.
One things for certain, unless we start to score more goals we are in big trouble. It’s been a problem since last February.
Needs dropping - he'll soon recover and get hunger back.
Re: Vydra
I’m not suggesting wholesale changes to the way we play no. I’m saying we really don’t know how good Vydra can be because he’s not had the extended run of game time that Wood and Barnes have had. I think there are times where we could try to work the ball through midfield but lump it anyway. The first twenty five minutes of last nights second half being a case in point. There were times when the ball was just being cleared upfield like Marine were doing against Spurs.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:30 amI’d say it’s the route to the poor house if you’re suggesting completely changing the way the whole ethos of the team is set up to play, to rely on Vydra being good enough. He’s one of these players who gets better and better with every game he doesn’t play.
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Re: Vydra
He might aswell just **** wood off then and play with Long instead to defend.
It’s turgid crap from Dyche this. Absolute no adaptability or creativity what so ever.
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Re: Vydra
Those clearances are usually challenged for by the strikers and then pressed by higher energy across a midfield 4. If you’re asking for the team to take more risks and work the ball through midfield, that is a change of the way that the team play. I think this may highlight also the Brownhill problem. His work rate and tenacity are incredible. His quality on the ball and desire to get on it and move it are not.
Re: Vydra
I thought we looked better with McNeil on last night because he offered a better way of working the ball up field than the way we had previously been playing.
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Re: Vydra
He must be sat there every game thinking im technically better than both of these
Only reason dyche plays barnes and wood is for the agression they bring against the centre backs and to win fouls up the pitch. Theyv no pace control and shooting is off
Vydra and Jay need to play
Only reason dyche plays barnes and wood is for the agression they bring against the centre backs and to win fouls up the pitch. Theyv no pace control and shooting is off
Vydra and Jay need to play
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Re: Vydra
Not being snidy at all, but I've genuinely no idea what point that table makes.
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Re: Vydra
I was trying to remember a striker we had that only ever got 10 minutes at best and then after injury to the regular starter he started to play 90 minutes and all of a sudden he went from useless buy to Vokesy, Vokesy Vokesy. Being an impact sub is not an easy job, hence why there is probably only a handful of them that have made it an art. As for Vydra, great goal against Southampton so he has it in him, but maybe we will never unleash it, Bamfords goal tally this season really urks too!! Play Mumbongo and let the lad bring something fresh, he looks like he has energy to burn.
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Re: Vydra
Barnes, absolutely. Aggression and then some!! Wood? Absolutely NOT. He's the typical big lad who is simply far, far too nice and polite and wouldn't hurt a fly (unfortunately!)Wellsy1882 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 amHe must be sat there every game thinking im technically better than both of these
Only reason dyche plays barnes and wood is for the agression they bring against the centre backs and to win fouls up the pitch. Theyv no pace control and shooting is off
Vydra and Jay need to play
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Re: Vydra
Brownhill has been excellent this season, on and off the ball.dandeclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:40 amThose clearances are usually challenged for by the strikers and then pressed by higher energy across a midfield 4. If you’re asking for the team to take more risks and work the ball through midfield, that is a change of the way that the team play. I think this may highlight also the Brownhill problem. His work rate and tenacity are incredible. His quality on the ball and desire to get on it and move it are not.
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Re: Vydra
Wood - Great record before this season, a presence
Barnes - A handful for defenders, good link up
Jay - our most athletic & technical striker
Vydra - pacey, good movement
It's not about who's better, but trying different options. In the first half vs Man U Wood & Barnes looked good, causing them difficulty. I certainly wasn't thinking of taking them off. The problem lies when we retreat deeper and have no option but to lump it up to Wood & Barnes and hope for 2nd balls. That's when we should change the approach. Also for different matches too, not just go into every game with the same gameplan.
Dyche was forced to try different pairing at the end of last season with injuries. I thought we played our best football last season (more fluid and less predictable) with Vydra partnering either Jay or Wood.
Barnes - A handful for defenders, good link up
Jay - our most athletic & technical striker
Vydra - pacey, good movement
It's not about who's better, but trying different options. In the first half vs Man U Wood & Barnes looked good, causing them difficulty. I certainly wasn't thinking of taking them off. The problem lies when we retreat deeper and have no option but to lump it up to Wood & Barnes and hope for 2nd balls. That's when we should change the approach. Also for different matches too, not just go into every game with the same gameplan.
Dyche was forced to try different pairing at the end of last season with injuries. I thought we played our best football last season (more fluid and less predictable) with Vydra partnering either Jay or Wood.
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Re: Vydra
Anyone see Sean's reaction when Vydra missed that chance at the end - not sure he'll be in the starting eleven any time soon
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Re: Vydra
Sincerely hope and believe that dyche is better than thatSalisburyClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 amAnyone see Sean's reaction when Vydra missed that chance at the end - not sure he'll be in the starting eleven any time soon
Re: Vydra
And it was nowhere near as bad as the two sitters missed by Wood and Barnes on SaturdaySalisburyClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 amAnyone see Sean's reaction when Vydra missed that chance at the end - not sure he'll be in the starting eleven any time soon
But hey, they wear down the oppositions defenders very well for 80 mins and neither gets a shot on target
They are the future
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Re: Vydra
We managed a victory at Palace last season without Wood/Barnes and achieved by playing good football not hoof ball, the formation was tweaked with McNeil in a free role and it worked, these players have football in them give them a chance to play it, Wood is there to serve BFC not the other way round, we would all like a fully firing CW but we can`t keep missing out in games giving him `one more chance ` to get his confidence back, try a few U23 matches to get his shooting boots back.
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Re: Vydra
Wood has a great record against WHU, as much as he is going my head in I'd play him down there tbh
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Re: Vydra
It won’t happen but Vydra up front with McNeil playing behind him wouldn’t be a bad option on Saturday. Thought that should have happened last night instead of taking Brady off.
Re: Vydra
We played some great football during that game like you said. I think the problem is we only seem to start trying to play when we know we're either safe or close to safety.claretgimmer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 amWe managed a victory at Palace last season without Wood/Barnes and achieved by playing good football not hoof ball, the formation was tweaked with McNeil in a free role and it worked, these players have football in them give them a chance to play it, Wood is there to serve BFC not the other way round, we would all like a fully firing CW but we can`t keep missing out in games giving him `one more chance ` to get his confidence back, try a few U23 matches to get his shooting boots back.
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Re: Vydra
Or Vydra.... he missed 2 very good chances in Extra time didn’t he? Plus a penalty? For balance like....
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Re: Vydra
Would love to see just how many chances this guy has had in the PL since we came out of lockdown, and in that time he has played quite a few hours. The bottom line is he has converted 0 since May. For all his running he just does not do it for me. Needs to be moved on in the next few weeks and someone new brought in, if necessary on loan
Re: Vydra
Dande, the supposedly very good chance against MKD: he's at a narrowing angle, defenders closing in to prevent him moving inside to a better angle and the keeper is perfectly positioned at his near post. Vydra bangs it (on target) hoping for a nutmeg through the keeper but it doesn't come off. And instead of a lucky rebound to a team mate it just cannons back to Vydra with the goalkeeper advancing to narrow the angle even more. If that chance had fallen to Wood or Barnes or Jay I'm not certain that they'd have fared any better.
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Re: Vydra
It's difficult to see when he changes tactics, Wood out of form, confidence must play a part, keep encouraging him, big him up, starts games, try to help confidence believe in him, all good things, but for how long? When does the time come that he makes a change, tries a different tactic to shake him up, challenge him by putting him on the bench, giving him something to think about, it's a difficult decision and there are not a lot of options.
Persevere with Wood Barnes in terms of I know they are good, they have proved it before and they are in my (SD's) opinion our best option, or make that change, is it just Wood or do you give JRod and Vydra the opportunity, when?
Like many, I think you can't expect much when you bring players on for a short amount of time and expect them to alter a game, got to happen a very low percentage of time, so at least move to making a change earlier, 60 minutes at the latest for me.
Persevere with Wood Barnes in terms of I know they are good, they have proved it before and they are in my (SD's) opinion our best option, or make that change, is it just Wood or do you give JRod and Vydra the opportunity, when?
Like many, I think you can't expect much when you bring players on for a short amount of time and expect them to alter a game, got to happen a very low percentage of time, so at least move to making a change earlier, 60 minutes at the latest for me.
Re: Vydra
Without going into a detailed explanation of expected goals, the xG per game column is basically saying that over the last 6 games (before last night) he's been getting into good shooting positions - as good as Harry Kane. The goals will come, that he's not scoring is mostly variance (bad luck).NottsClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:16 amNot being snidy at all, but I've genuinely no idea what point that table makes.
Here's another comparison based on number and quality of shots:
The reaction was probably because he didn't like Vydra taking on two shots of such low quality.
Because nobody wants to buy him?
Re: Vydra
Tall Paul wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:20 pmWithout going into a detailed explanation of expected goals, the xG per game column is basically saying that over the last 6 games (before last night) he's been getting into good shooting positions - as good as Harry Kane. The goals will come, that he's not scoring is mostly variance (bad luck).
Here's another comparison based on number and quality of shots:
The reaction was probably because he didn't like Vydra taking on two shots of such low quality.
Because nobody wants to buy him?
This is the problem with stats. Wood has missed at least one clear cut chance in the last 4/5 games (apart from last night). That's not exactly a positive is it? You can say he's getting in the right positions, but it means nothing unless the ball is in the onion bag.
Did the same stats not expect us to be relegated long before now?
Re: Vydra
As you rightly say, the positive is that he's getting into those positions.boyyanno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:49 pmThis is the problem with stats. Wood has missed at least one clear cut chance in the last 4/5 games (apart from last night). That's not exactly a positive is it? You can say he's getting in the right positions, but it means nothing unless the ball is in the onion bag.
"it means nothing unless the ball is in the onion bag"
And then you go and ruin it by saying this. It's not true, it has been proven that expected goals (ie quality of shots taken) is a better predictor of future performance than actual goals scored.
No, I don't think so.Did the same stats not expect us to be relegated long before now?
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Re: Vydra
https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.c ... cted-goalsRight_winger wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:02 pmIn which case you will be providing your sources to back up your claim.
https://statsbomb.com/2013/08/goal-expe ... fficiency/
https://www.statsperform.com/resource/e ... n-context/
https://www.sportperformanceanalysis.co ... d-goals-xg
for starters.
Re: Vydra
How has that been "proven"?Tall Paul wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:58 pmAs you rightly say, the positive is that he's getting into those positions.
"it means nothing unless the ball is in the onion bag"
And then you go and ruin it by saying this. It's not true, it has been proven that expected goals (ie quality of shots taken) is a better predictor of future performance than actual goals scored.
No, I don't think so.
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Re: Vydra
The stat shown last night that BFC have one of the worst records in the PL (20th) for scoring in the final 20 minutes of games, surely proves that SD"s tactic of bringing on a fresh pair of strikers for the final 10/15 minutes isn't really working.
May as well give them 30 minutes and see if things improve.
May as well give them 30 minutes and see if things improve.
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Re: Vydra
Read the articles linked above.
Apparently not, because some people appear to think that Wood offers us nothing and Vydra got into better positions to score last night than Wood can only dream of. The stats are unbiased and show that none of that is true.
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Re: Vydra
Last nights game would have Been a good time to get Joel mumbongo on so soon after his cup game against MK along with Vydra....we know we can defend. It just might have left the opposition chasing shadows.
Re: Vydra
Be interesting to see Vydra's goal return if he played as often as Wood or Barnes. Its not easy being thrown on for 10 minutes when you're desparetely chasing a game.
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Re: Vydra
will be interesting to see the new owners views of stats and AI for measurements and how they interpret them to SD along with a gentle nudge to "maybe change something". Love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation
Re: Vydra
I've read them, have you? Can you tell me which bit "proves" that expected goals are a better indicator than goals scored? I'm not arguing that Vydra is the answer, I simply think Wood has been poor recently, and missed a lot of chances. The stats actually "prove" this because he has scored less than his expected goals. I certainly see nothing that proves Wood is going to start banging them in?
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Re: Vydra
Vydra has to start and deserves a run of 5 or 6 games right now especially as wood isn't doing anything at the moment. Wood had his chance to kick on after the goal the other week but he's failed miserably. Barnes and vyds up top for me although I'm not against Jay partnering vyds either. Worst case scenario is Vyds doesn't score much if at all which is what Wood is doing anyway. Come on Sir Sean and mix it up
Re: Vydra
I haven't read them recently, they're quite old. I'm not reproducing the articles, but they include statistical tests comparing expected goals to actual goals, which show that using xG as a predictor is better than using actual goals.boyyanno wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:44 pmI've read them, have you? Can you tell me which bit "proves" that expected goals are a better indicator than goals scored? I'm not arguing that Vydra is the answer, I simply think Wood has been poor recently, and missed a lot of chances. The stats actually "prove" this because he has scored less than his expected goals. I certainly see nothing that proves Wood is going to start banging them in?
Wood is currently scoring half of the goals he'd be expected to given the quality of chances he's getting. It's possible that Wood is a poor finisher (over his career he's running about 7% below his xG), but not as poor as 50%, so it's likely that he'll continue to get the chances and the goals will come.
Vydra has also scored less than his expected goals by the way (by 100% this season and 50% over his career).
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Re: Vydra
Hasn't he really only been at a PL club once before for a full season? I think it was WBA. And Baggies fans rate him.matttheclaret wrote: ↑Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:56 pmTough one. I don't think Vydra is quite good enough in all honesty, he's never been a regular anywhere at this level and I don't think that's a coincidence.
Wood and Barnes have also not been regular PL starters at any other club. And Wood has had numerous opportunities
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Re: Vydra
Yep clocked that.....unlike a lot on here Dyche has no faith in Vydra whatsoeverSalisburyClaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 amAnyone see Sean's reaction when Vydra missed that chance at the end - not sure he'll be in the starting eleven any time soon
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Re: Vydra
That stat could equally demonstrate that our substitutes aren’t of the required standard to affect games. In which case maybe Dyche would be better not bringing them on at all.kentonclaret wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:25 pmThe stat shown last night that BFC have one of the worst records in the PL (20th) for scoring in the final 20 minutes of games, surely proves that SD"s tactic of bringing on a fresh pair of strikers for the final 10/15 minutes isn't really working.
May as well give them 30 minutes and see if things improve.
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Re: Vydra
I think Vydra is the only striker we have that would have scored the equaliser on Saturday. He doesn't need to start every game, but surely in games where our strikers are being dominated in the air from minute 1 (by two very good CBs) like last night, we should look to change things early.
I don't think he needs to be the saviour to deserve a start in the team, people should be picked on form and you can't say that Wood/Barnes are currently in form.
I think the real problem is that starting him means we have to change our general game plan of playing it long, which we are (somewhat understandably) reluctant to do
I don't think he needs to be the saviour to deserve a start in the team, people should be picked on form and you can't say that Wood/Barnes are currently in form.
I think the real problem is that starting him means we have to change our general game plan of playing it long, which we are (somewhat understandably) reluctant to do
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Re: Vydra
A Man Utd supporting friend said this morning that Burnley are desperately short of a pacy player up front and a holding midfielder.Hard to disagree with that.
Re: Vydra
What did he say 12 months ago after we had beaten them at Old Trafford?The Enclosure wrote: ↑Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:00 pmA Man Utd supporting friend said this morning that Burnley are desperately short of a pacy player up front and a holding midfielder.Hard to disagree with that.