Vydra

This Forum is the main messageboard to discuss all things Claret and Blue and beyond
dandeclaret
Posts: 3516
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 am
Been Liked: 2567 times
Has Liked: 300 times

Re: Vydra

Post by dandeclaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:32 am

Right_winger wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:28 am
Think your watching a different game from me then as Wood has been tame.

Give Vydra a run of games. He’s not even match what and offers more threat than Wood.

Dyche is mainly the problem through. It’s the same plug and play tactics week in week out. No adaptation to opposition or anything. A squad of 15, 30+ journeymen is a Dyche squad
One mans problem is another mans incredible achievement. Perspective wise, despite him being a plug and play merchant, with a load of journeymen, as you put it, he has the team once again towards the top of the mini league that the clubs spending would have them expected to finish in.

Richardsbfc
Posts: 242
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:44 am
Been Liked: 66 times
Has Liked: 84 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Richardsbfc » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:33 am

Bordeauxclaret wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:29 am
I certainly don’t think Vydra is better than Wood.
Wood’s record at this level, prior to this season anyway, is very good.

The problem is his confidence is on the floor. Do we stick with him and hope he pulls through or take him out of the firing line.
One things for certain, unless we start to score more goals we are in big trouble. It’s been a problem since last February.
You don't play your way into form if your soo far out of form. You're out of form if your fatigued or just not enjoying playing at the moment.

Needs dropping - he'll soon recover and get hunger back.

bfcjg
Posts: 13153
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:17 pm
Been Liked: 5002 times
Has Liked: 6716 times

Re: Vydra

Post by bfcjg » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:35 am

Dyche keeps starting with them and perseveres with them because they are better at defending in our box, it is his way of playing.

RMutt
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 pm
Been Liked: 373 times
Has Liked: 88 times

Re: Vydra

Post by RMutt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:37 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:30 am
I’d say it’s the route to the poor house if you’re suggesting completely changing the way the whole ethos of the team is set up to play, to rely on Vydra being good enough. He’s one of these players who gets better and better with every game he doesn’t play.
I’m not suggesting wholesale changes to the way we play no. I’m saying we really don’t know how good Vydra can be because he’s not had the extended run of game time that Wood and Barnes have had. I think there are times where we could try to work the ball through midfield but lump it anyway. The first twenty five minutes of last nights second half being a case in point. There were times when the ball was just being cleared upfield like Marine were doing against Spurs.
This user liked this post: the_magic_rat

Right_winger
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:28 pm
Been Liked: 492 times
Has Liked: 411 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Right_winger » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:38 am

bfcjg wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:35 am
Dyche keeps starting with them and perseveres with them because they are better at defending in our box, it is his way of playing.
He might aswell just **** wood off then and play with Long instead to defend.

It’s turgid crap from Dyche this. Absolute no adaptability or creativity what so ever.

dandeclaret
Posts: 3516
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 am
Been Liked: 2567 times
Has Liked: 300 times

Re: Vydra

Post by dandeclaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:40 am

Those clearances are usually challenged for by the strikers and then pressed by higher energy across a midfield 4. If you’re asking for the team to take more risks and work the ball through midfield, that is a change of the way that the team play. I think this may highlight also the Brownhill problem. His work rate and tenacity are incredible. His quality on the ball and desire to get on it and move it are not.

nyclaret
Posts: 1213
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:57 am
Been Liked: 335 times
Has Liked: 163 times

Re: Vydra

Post by nyclaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:44 am

Has anyone watched how well Southampton play in a 4-4-2 this season? Vydra would slot in nicely with that team. I don’t see why he can’t be used here in a similar role.

RMutt
Posts: 1066
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:08 pm
Been Liked: 373 times
Has Liked: 88 times

Re: Vydra

Post by RMutt » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:47 am

I thought we looked better with McNeil on last night because he offered a better way of working the ball up field than the way we had previously been playing.
This user liked this post: Quickenthetempo

Wellsy1882
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:35 pm
Been Liked: 247 times
Has Liked: 90 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Wellsy1882 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 am

He must be sat there every game thinking im technically better than both of these

Only reason dyche plays barnes and wood is for the agression they bring against the centre backs and to win fouls up the pitch. Theyv no pace control and shooting is off

Vydra and Jay need to play

Tall Paul
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:10 am

Screenshot_20210113-090919.png
Screenshot_20210113-090919.png (1.09 MiB) Viewed 2627 times
Offers nothing :roll:

NottsClaret
Posts: 3577
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:05 am
Been Liked: 2590 times
Has Liked: 1 time

Re: Vydra

Post by NottsClaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:16 am

Not being snidy at all, but I've genuinely no idea what point that table makes.
This user liked this post: boatshed bill

vinrogue
Posts: 1310
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:26 am
Been Liked: 318 times
Has Liked: 184 times

Re: Vydra

Post by vinrogue » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:18 am

I was trying to remember a striker we had that only ever got 10 minutes at best and then after injury to the regular starter he started to play 90 minutes and all of a sudden he went from useless buy to Vokesy, Vokesy Vokesy. Being an impact sub is not an easy job, hence why there is probably only a handful of them that have made it an art. As for Vydra, great goal against Southampton so he has it in him, but maybe we will never unleash it, Bamfords goal tally this season really urks too!! Play Mumbongo and let the lad bring something fresh, he looks like he has energy to burn.

Dark Cloud
Posts: 6586
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:03 am
Been Liked: 1981 times
Has Liked: 3299 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Dark Cloud » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:19 am

Wellsy1882 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:51 am
He must be sat there every game thinking im technically better than both of these

Only reason dyche plays barnes and wood is for the agression they bring against the centre backs and to win fouls up the pitch. Theyv no pace control and shooting is off

Vydra and Jay need to play
Barnes, absolutely. Aggression and then some!! Wood? Absolutely NOT. He's the typical big lad who is simply far, far too nice and polite and wouldn't hurt a fly (unfortunately!)
This user liked this post: tim_noone

Ipreferaflan
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:59 am
Been Liked: 30 times
Has Liked: 18 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Ipreferaflan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:40 am

dandeclaret wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:40 am
Those clearances are usually challenged for by the strikers and then pressed by higher energy across a midfield 4. If you’re asking for the team to take more risks and work the ball through midfield, that is a change of the way that the team play. I think this may highlight also the Brownhill problem. His work rate and tenacity are incredible. His quality on the ball and desire to get on it and move it are not.
Brownhill has been excellent this season, on and off the ball.

Sleeping Cat
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:13 am
Been Liked: 164 times
Has Liked: 33 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Sleeping Cat » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:35 am

Wood - Great record before this season, a presence
Barnes - A handful for defenders, good link up
Jay - our most athletic & technical striker
Vydra - pacey, good movement

It's not about who's better, but trying different options. In the first half vs Man U Wood & Barnes looked good, causing them difficulty. I certainly wasn't thinking of taking them off. The problem lies when we retreat deeper and have no option but to lump it up to Wood & Barnes and hope for 2nd balls. That's when we should change the approach. Also for different matches too, not just go into every game with the same gameplan.

Dyche was forced to try different pairing at the end of last season with injuries. I thought we played our best football last season (more fluid and less predictable) with Vydra partnering either Jay or Wood.
These 2 users liked this post: bobinho k90bfc

SalisburyClaret
Posts: 4077
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:32 pm
Been Liked: 1104 times
Has Liked: 709 times

Re: Vydra

Post by SalisburyClaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 am

Anyone see Sean's reaction when Vydra missed that chance at the end - not sure he'll be in the starting eleven any time soon

Stevie Morgan
Posts: 327
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:54 am
Been Liked: 83 times
Has Liked: 205 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Stevie Morgan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:42 am

SalisburyClaret wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 am
Anyone see Sean's reaction when Vydra missed that chance at the end - not sure he'll be in the starting eleven any time soon
Sincerely hope and believe that dyche is better than that

jojomk1
Posts: 4735
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:20 am
Been Liked: 836 times
Has Liked: 574 times

Re: Vydra

Post by jojomk1 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:42 am

SalisburyClaret wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 am
Anyone see Sean's reaction when Vydra missed that chance at the end - not sure he'll be in the starting eleven any time soon
And it was nowhere near as bad as the two sitters missed by Wood and Barnes on Saturday

But hey, they wear down the oppositions defenders very well for 80 mins and neither gets a shot on target

They are the future

claretgimmer
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Been Liked: 151 times
Has Liked: 689 times

Re: Vydra

Post by claretgimmer » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 am

We managed a victory at Palace last season without Wood/Barnes and achieved by playing good football not hoof ball, the formation was tweaked with McNeil in a free role and it worked, these players have football in them give them a chance to play it, Wood is there to serve BFC not the other way round, we would all like a fully firing CW but we can`t keep missing out in games giving him `one more chance ` to get his confidence back, try a few U23 matches to get his shooting boots back.
This user liked this post: tiger76

Vegas Claret
Posts: 30275
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:00 am
Been Liked: 10917 times
Has Liked: 5594 times
Location: clue is in the title

Re: Vydra

Post by Vegas Claret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:45 am

Pearcey wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:56 am
Jay has a good record against Man U but he only got a few minutes.
Wood and Barnes are class but they’re out of form. I’d like to see Jay and Vyds start against West Ham.
Wood has a great record against WHU, as much as he is going my head in I'd play him down there tbh

Steve-Harpers-perm
Posts: 5744
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 am
Been Liked: 1868 times
Has Liked: 835 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Steve-Harpers-perm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:50 am

It won’t happen but Vydra up front with McNeil playing behind him wouldn’t be a bad option on Saturday. Thought that should have happened last night instead of taking Brady off.

nyclaret
Posts: 1213
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:57 am
Been Liked: 335 times
Has Liked: 163 times

Re: Vydra

Post by nyclaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:55 am

claretgimmer wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:43 am
We managed a victory at Palace last season without Wood/Barnes and achieved by playing good football not hoof ball, the formation was tweaked with McNeil in a free role and it worked, these players have football in them give them a chance to play it, Wood is there to serve BFC not the other way round, we would all like a fully firing CW but we can`t keep missing out in games giving him `one more chance ` to get his confidence back, try a few U23 matches to get his shooting boots back.
We played some great football during that game like you said. I think the problem is we only seem to start trying to play when we know we're either safe or close to safety.
This user liked this post: claretgimmer

dandeclaret
Posts: 3516
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:55 am
Been Liked: 2567 times
Has Liked: 300 times

Re: Vydra

Post by dandeclaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:03 am

jojomk1 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:42 am
And it was nowhere near as bad as the two sitters missed by Wood and Barnes on Saturday

But hey, they wear down the oppositions defenders very well for 80 mins and neither gets a shot on target

They are the future
Or Vydra.... he missed 2 very good chances in Extra time didn’t he? Plus a penalty? For balance like....

Mala591
Posts: 1887
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:02 pm
Been Liked: 681 times
Has Liked: 428 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Mala591 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:23 am

Dyche obviously doesn’t ‘rate’ Vydra (for want of a better word) so why don’t we sell him and get someone new in who Dyche does rate?

warksclaret
Posts: 6594
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:13 pm
Been Liked: 1676 times
Has Liked: 754 times

Re: Vydra

Post by warksclaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:25 am

Would love to see just how many chances this guy has had in the PL since we came out of lockdown, and in that time he has played quite a few hours. The bottom line is he has converted 0 since May. For all his running he just does not do it for me. Needs to be moved on in the next few weeks and someone new brought in, if necessary on loan

Sarum
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:09 pm
Been Liked: 123 times
Has Liked: 323 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Sarum » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:28 am

Dande, the supposedly very good chance against MKD: he's at a narrowing angle, defenders closing in to prevent him moving inside to a better angle and the keeper is perfectly positioned at his near post. Vydra bangs it (on target) hoping for a nutmeg through the keeper but it doesn't come off. And instead of a lucky rebound to a team mate it just cannons back to Vydra with the goalkeeper advancing to narrow the angle even more. If that chance had fallen to Wood or Barnes or Jay I'm not certain that they'd have fared any better.

Sleeping Cat
Posts: 610
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:13 am
Been Liked: 164 times
Has Liked: 33 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Sleeping Cat » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:13 pm

Mala591 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:23 am
Dyche obviously doesn’t ‘rate’ Vydra (for want of a better word) so why don’t we sell him and get someone new in who Dyche does rate?
Like Troy Deeney?

KateR
Posts: 4139
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6157 times

Re: Vydra

Post by KateR » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:32 pm

It's difficult to see when he changes tactics, Wood out of form, confidence must play a part, keep encouraging him, big him up, starts games, try to help confidence believe in him, all good things, but for how long? When does the time come that he makes a change, tries a different tactic to shake him up, challenge him by putting him on the bench, giving him something to think about, it's a difficult decision and there are not a lot of options.

Persevere with Wood Barnes in terms of I know they are good, they have proved it before and they are in my (SD's) opinion our best option, or make that change, is it just Wood or do you give JRod and Vydra the opportunity, when?

Like many, I think you can't expect much when you bring players on for a short amount of time and expect them to alter a game, got to happen a very low percentage of time, so at least move to making a change earlier, 60 minutes at the latest for me.

Tall Paul
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:20 pm

NottsClaret wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:16 am
Not being snidy at all, but I've genuinely no idea what point that table makes.
Without going into a detailed explanation of expected goals, the xG per game column is basically saying that over the last 6 games (before last night) he's been getting into good shooting positions - as good as Harry Kane. The goals will come, that he's not scoring is mostly variance (bad luck).

Here's another comparison based on number and quality of shots:
Image
jojomk1 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:42 am


And it was nowhere near as bad as the two sitters missed by Wood and Barnes on Saturday

But hey, they wear down the oppositions defenders very well for 80 mins and neither gets a shot on target

They are the future
The reaction was probably because he didn't like Vydra taking on two shots of such low quality.
Mala591 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:23 am
Dyche obviously doesn’t ‘rate’ Vydra (for want of a better word) so why don’t we sell him and get someone new in who Dyche does rate?
Because nobody wants to buy him?

boyyanno
Posts: 1616
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 7:25 pm
Been Liked: 498 times
Has Liked: 115 times

Re: Vydra

Post by boyyanno » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:49 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:20 pm
Without going into a detailed explanation of expected goals, the xG per game column is basically saying that over the last 6 games (before last night) he's been getting into good shooting positions - as good as Harry Kane. The goals will come, that he's not scoring is mostly variance (bad luck).

Here's another comparison based on number and quality of shots:
Image



The reaction was probably because he didn't like Vydra taking on two shots of such low quality.



Because nobody wants to buy him?

This is the problem with stats. Wood has missed at least one clear cut chance in the last 4/5 games (apart from last night). That's not exactly a positive is it? You can say he's getting in the right positions, but it means nothing unless the ball is in the onion bag.

Did the same stats not expect us to be relegated long before now?

Tall Paul
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:58 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:49 pm
This is the problem with stats. Wood has missed at least one clear cut chance in the last 4/5 games (apart from last night). That's not exactly a positive is it? You can say he's getting in the right positions, but it means nothing unless the ball is in the onion bag.
As you rightly say, the positive is that he's getting into those positions.

"it means nothing unless the ball is in the onion bag"

And then you go and ruin it by saying this. It's not true, it has been proven that expected goals (ie quality of shots taken) is a better predictor of future performance than actual goals scored.
Did the same stats not expect us to be relegated long before now?
No, I don't think so.

Right_winger
Posts: 2105
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:28 pm
Been Liked: 492 times
Has Liked: 411 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Right_winger » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:02 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:58 pm
It's not true, it has been proven that expected goals (ie quality of shots taken) is a better predictor of future performance than actual goals scored.
In which case you will be providing your sources to back up your claim.

Tall Paul
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:13 pm


boyyanno
Posts: 1616
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 7:25 pm
Been Liked: 498 times
Has Liked: 115 times

Re: Vydra

Post by boyyanno » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:17 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:58 pm
As you rightly say, the positive is that he's getting into those positions.

"it means nothing unless the ball is in the onion bag"

And then you go and ruin it by saying this. It's not true, it has been proven that expected goals (ie quality of shots taken) is a better predictor of future performance than actual goals scored.



No, I don't think so.
How has that been "proven"?

Boss Hogg
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:34 am
Been Liked: 846 times
Has Liked: 1090 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Boss Hogg » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:19 pm

Think most of us can see what’s happening on the pitch with our eyes without all the charts.
This user liked this post: bobinho

kentonclaret
Posts: 6437
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:06 pm
Been Liked: 969 times
Has Liked: 204 times

Re: Vydra

Post by kentonclaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:25 pm

The stat shown last night that BFC have one of the worst records in the PL (20th) for scoring in the final 20 minutes of games, surely proves that SD"s tactic of bringing on a fresh pair of strikers for the final 10/15 minutes isn't really working.

May as well give them 30 minutes and see if things improve.
These 4 users liked this post: tim_noone KateR Boss Hogg k90bfc

Tall Paul
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:25 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:17 pm
How has that been "proven"?
Read the articles linked above.
Boss Hogg wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:19 pm
Think most of us can see what’s happening on the pitch with our eyes without all the charts.
Apparently not, because some people appear to think that Wood offers us nothing and Vydra got into better positions to score last night than Wood can only dream of. The stats are unbiased and show that none of that is true.

tim_noone
Posts: 17108
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:12 pm
Been Liked: 4384 times
Has Liked: 15117 times

Re: Vydra

Post by tim_noone » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:34 pm

Last nights game would have Been a good time to get Joel mumbongo on so soon after his cup game against MK along with Vydra....we know we can defend. It just might have left the opposition chasing shadows.

jrgbfc
Posts: 8421
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:30 pm
Been Liked: 2098 times
Has Liked: 336 times

Re: Vydra

Post by jrgbfc » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:34 pm

Be interesting to see Vydra's goal return if he played as often as Wood or Barnes. Its not easy being thrown on for 10 minutes when you're desparetely chasing a game.
These 2 users liked this post: tim_noone NewClaret

KateR
Posts: 4139
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:46 pm
Been Liked: 1018 times
Has Liked: 6157 times

Re: Vydra

Post by KateR » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:39 pm

will be interesting to see the new owners views of stats and AI for measurements and how they interpret them to SD along with a gentle nudge to "maybe change something". Love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation :)

boyyanno
Posts: 1616
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 7:25 pm
Been Liked: 498 times
Has Liked: 115 times

Re: Vydra

Post by boyyanno » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:44 pm

Tall Paul wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:25 pm
Read the articles linked above.



Apparently not, because some people appear to think that Wood offers us nothing and Vydra got into better positions to score last night than Wood can only dream of. The stats are unbiased and show that none of that is true.
I've read them, have you? Can you tell me which bit "proves" that expected goals are a better indicator than goals scored? I'm not arguing that Vydra is the answer, I simply think Wood has been poor recently, and missed a lot of chances. The stats actually "prove" this because he has scored less than his expected goals. I certainly see nothing that proves Wood is going to start banging them in?

DomBFC1882
Posts: 1682
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:21 pm
Been Liked: 462 times
Has Liked: 2398 times

Re: Vydra

Post by DomBFC1882 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:48 pm

Vydra has to start and deserves a run of 5 or 6 games right now especially as wood isn't doing anything at the moment. Wood had his chance to kick on after the goal the other week but he's failed miserably. Barnes and vyds up top for me although I'm not against Jay partnering vyds either. Worst case scenario is Vyds doesn't score much if at all which is what Wood is doing anyway. Come on Sir Sean and mix it up

Tall Paul
Posts: 7171
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:07 am
Been Liked: 2560 times
Has Liked: 690 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Tall Paul » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:00 pm

boyyanno wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:44 pm
I've read them, have you? Can you tell me which bit "proves" that expected goals are a better indicator than goals scored? I'm not arguing that Vydra is the answer, I simply think Wood has been poor recently, and missed a lot of chances. The stats actually "prove" this because he has scored less than his expected goals. I certainly see nothing that proves Wood is going to start banging them in?
I haven't read them recently, they're quite old. I'm not reproducing the articles, but they include statistical tests comparing expected goals to actual goals, which show that using xG as a predictor is better than using actual goals.

Wood is currently scoring half of the goals he'd be expected to given the quality of chances he's getting. It's possible that Wood is a poor finisher (over his career he's running about 7% below his xG), but not as poor as 50%, so it's likely that he'll continue to get the chances and the goals will come.

Vydra has also scored less than his expected goals by the way (by 100% this season and 50% over his career).

Roosterbooster
Posts: 2583
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 6:22 pm
Been Liked: 688 times
Has Liked: 361 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Roosterbooster » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:04 pm

matttheclaret wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:56 pm
Tough one. I don't think Vydra is quite good enough in all honesty, he's never been a regular anywhere at this level and I don't think that's a coincidence.
Hasn't he really only been at a PL club once before for a full season? I think it was WBA. And Baggies fans rate him.

Wood and Barnes have also not been regular PL starters at any other club. And Wood has had numerous opportunities
This user liked this post: tim_noone

Steve1956
Posts: 17178
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 pm
Been Liked: 6463 times
Has Liked: 2896 times
Location: Fife

Re: Vydra

Post by Steve1956 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:23 pm

SalisburyClaret wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:39 am
Anyone see Sean's reaction when Vydra missed that chance at the end - not sure he'll be in the starting eleven any time soon
Yep clocked that.....unlike a lot on here Dyche has no faith in Vydra whatsoever

Rileybobs
Posts: 16689
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:37 pm
Been Liked: 6900 times
Has Liked: 1471 times
Location: Leeds

Re: Vydra

Post by Rileybobs » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:32 pm

kentonclaret wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:25 pm
The stat shown last night that BFC have one of the worst records in the PL (20th) for scoring in the final 20 minutes of games, surely proves that SD"s tactic of bringing on a fresh pair of strikers for the final 10/15 minutes isn't really working.

May as well give them 30 minutes and see if things improve.
That stat could equally demonstrate that our substitutes aren’t of the required standard to affect games. In which case maybe Dyche would be better not bringing them on at all.

blake's wand
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:05 pm
Been Liked: 54 times

Re: Vydra

Post by blake's wand » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:40 pm

I think Vydra is the only striker we have that would have scored the equaliser on Saturday. He doesn't need to start every game, but surely in games where our strikers are being dominated in the air from minute 1 (by two very good CBs) like last night, we should look to change things early.

I don't think he needs to be the saviour to deserve a start in the team, people should be picked on form and you can't say that Wood/Barnes are currently in form.

I think the real problem is that starting him means we have to change our general game plan of playing it long, which we are (somewhat understandably) reluctant to do

The Enclosure
Posts: 4486
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:29 am
Been Liked: 990 times
Has Liked: 3266 times
Location: Burnley

Re: Vydra

Post by The Enclosure » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:00 pm

A Man Utd supporting friend said this morning that Burnley are desperately short of a pacy player up front and a holding midfielder.Hard to disagree with that.

Targetman
Posts: 1641
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:43 pm
Been Liked: 502 times
Has Liked: 46 times

Re: Vydra

Post by Targetman » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:06 pm

The Enclosure wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:00 pm
A Man Utd supporting friend said this morning that Burnley are desperately short of a pacy player up front and a holding midfielder.Hard to disagree with that.
What did he say 12 months ago after we had beaten them at Old Trafford?

NewClaret
Posts: 13225
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:51 am
Been Liked: 3037 times
Has Liked: 3759 times

Re: Vydra

Post by NewClaret » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:10 pm

tim_noone wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:34 pm
Last nights game would have Been a good time to get Joel mumbongo on so soon after his cup game against MK along with Vydra....we know we can defend. It just might have left the opposition chasing shadows.
Agreed. Was disappointed he wasn’t on the bench last night.
This user liked this post: tim_noone

Post Reply