Some startling figures and information coming out of Barcelona tonight.

Debt - 1.173 billion euros.... one thousand, one hundred, and seventy three million euros. Insane.
Urgent Debt 700 million euros
They owe 196m euros in outstanding transfer fees, including 40m to Liverpool for Coutinho
Players haven't been paid some of the wages, although they do expect to get February's wages.

This could be the football bubble at it's biggest....... just before it pops.

Wow ...... Eye watering numbers there Dan

They threw money around like confetti with the hope they could sustain their glory period. Backfired terribly.

Indeed Bosscat..... without the tourism, without the fans in the ground, the debt that was building up slowly appears to have gone up quickly. No wonder they wanted to sell Messi in the summer, but there's a long way back from that debt level you'd have to feel. Unusual for them to not even be able to pay player wages.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:50 pm

Some startling figures and information coming out of Barcelona tonight.

Debt - 1.173 billion euros.... one thousand, one hundred, and seventy three million euros. Insane.
Urgent Debt 700 million euros
They owe 196m euros in outstanding transfer fees, including 40m to Liverpool for Coutinho
Players haven't been paid some of the wages, although they do expect to get February's wages.

This could be the football bubble at it's biggest....... just before it pops.

Those numbers are startling, but I somehow suspect that they'll survive this crisis, might explain why the European giants are so keen on this ESL idea though.

It sounds extreme but just maybe a genuine giant going burst will finally bring the game to it's senses, but I'm not holding out hope, I've thought this way for the last 20 years or so, and football seems immune from the normal economics which impact other sectors, certainly at the levels that the likes of Barca are operating at.

Wow!

Think they need to get Messi off their books bare minimum. Think there’s going to be some very disappointed football agents in the next few years.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:01 pm

Those numbers are startling, but I somehow suspect that they'll survive this crisis, might explain why the European giants are so keen on this ESL idea though.

It sounds extreme but just maybe a genuine giant going burst will finally bring the game to it's senses, but I'm not holding out hope, I've thought this way for the last 20 years or so, and football seems immune from the normal economics which impact other sectors, certainly at the levels that the likes of Barca are operating at.

Presumably they’ll just go in to Admin, the debt holders can whistle and a rich Sheikh buys them out?

Do fear that the current crisis, with the big clubs taking on more and more debt to survive will lead to the super league type of structural changes though, which I don’t support.

Makes our leveraged buy out look ultra cautious

I have been posting about Barcelona's reckless finances for years on the MMT thread- there is plenty there from the last few days including
their full accounts today and @SwissRambles assessment

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:01 pm

It sounds extreme but just maybe a genuine giant going burst will finally bring the game to it's senses, but I'm not holding out hope, I've thought this way for the last 20 years or so, and football seems immune from the normal economics which impact other sectors, certainly at the levels that the likes of Barca are operating at.

To be honest I hope so. The game has gone from the working class game and talks of European Super leaves fans even further away from the game. It’s just a shame it’s not happening to a team like Man City or Chelsea who without their owners are totally unsustainable.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:06 pm

Presumably they’ll just go in to Admin, the debt holders can whistle and a rich Sheikh buys them out?

Do fear that the current crisis, with the big clubs taking on more and more debt to survive will lead to the super league type of structural changes though, which I don’t support.

Spanish clubs aren't allowed to be owned by a single person /entity.
That's why Abramovich purchased Chelsea..

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:06 pm

Presumably they’ll just go in to Admin, the debt holders can whistle and a rich Sheikh buys them out?

Do fear that the current crisis, with the big clubs taking on more and more debt to survive will lead to the super league type of structural changes though, which I don’t support.

A club of Barca's stature will always be an attractive proposition to investors, so you may well be correct, and this super league idea doesn't seem to going away, if anything the noise around it is growing louder, and I can see it coming to fruition within the next 5 years, my fear is more for the small and medium sized clubs around the world that are the true lifeblood of the game, it's those types of clubs that will struggle with reduced incomes, and in the worst case scenario I can see some folding completely, or even having to contemplate a merger with their local rivals, however unpleasant that prospect may seem to fans.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:12 pm

Spanish clubs aren't allowed to be owned by a single person /entity.
That's why Abramovich purchased Chelsea..

That is not quite right - plenty of La Liga clubs privately owned now - the big 4 member owned clubs are treated differently by law but that is about it

Didn't Real Madrid sell their training ground to pay off debt a number of years ago?

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:13 pm

A club of Barca's stature will always be an attractive proposition to investors, so you may well be correct, and this super league idea doesn't seem to going away, if anything the noise around it is growing louder, and I can see it coming to fruition within the next 5 years, my fear is more for the small and medium sized clubs around the world that are the true lifeblood of the game, it's those types of clubs that will struggle with reduced incomes, and in the worst case scenario I can see some folding completely, or even having to contemplate a merger with their local rivals, however unpleasant that prospect may seem to fans.

Mergers? Burnley Rovers? God no, I’d rather we went bust!

Their fans dont seem too bothered. I had a look on their forum and according to Señor Pablo Wain its

Tiempos emocionantes,

Arriba a Ciudad Condal

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:13 pm

and this super league idea doesn't seem to going away, if anything the noise around it is growing louder, and I can see it coming to fruition within the next 5 years,

What I don’t understand is, the Champions League is quite fun as it is? The group stages throw up some good ties, then straight in to knock outs. But if they want a league, why not just scrap it and play each team for points instead?

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:23 pm

Their fans dont seem too bothered. I had a look on their forum and according to Señor Pablo Wain its

Tiempos emocionantes,

Arriba a Ciudad Condal

Is that the equivalent to Garlick Out?

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:28 pm

Is that the equivalent to Garlick Out?

Definitely not, señor Pablo would never be so negativo

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:01 pm

It sounds extreme but just maybe a genuine giant going burst will finally bring the game to it's senses

I thought that was Rangers?
Barca will find some corrupt method of getting out of the doo-doo. It’s the Spanish way.
All RMs success of the last 20 years has come with the assistance of the Madrid councillors.

FIFA & EUFA appear to have shut down talk of a super league by stating any players signing up will not be eligible for World Cups or Euro Champs. Papers saying Man U have already backed off.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:13 pm

A club of Barca's stature will always be an attractive proposition to investors, so you may well be correct, and this super league idea doesn't seem to going away, if anything the noise around it is growing louder, and I can see it coming to fruition within the next 5 years, my fear is more for the small and medium sized clubs around the world that are the true lifeblood of the game, it's those types of clubs that will struggle with reduced incomes, and in the worst case scenario I can see some folding completely, or even having to contemplate a merger with their local rivals, however unpleasant that prospect may seem to fans.

There is a rule about the elected directors carrying at least some liability, it is quite messy actually, in the summer they had a transfer with Juventus (I think) effectively a swap, but with a book value of 60m + Euros to each club. For the Barcelona Directors it capped the losses in the accounts enough to stop them having to fork out of their own pockets (around 70m+ euro) - I keep saying it is a mad-house over there

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:33 pm

I thought that was Rangers?
Barca will find some corrupt method of getting out of the doo-doo. It’s the Spanish way.
All RMs success of the last 20 years has come with the assistance of the Madrid councillors.

FIFA & EUFA appear to have shut down talk of a super league by stating any players signing up will not be eligible for World Cups or Euro Champs. Papers saying Man U have already backed off.

they said that in 2016 as well - it is all because we are a few months away from knowing how UEFA competitions will look post 2024 and how much money is being allocated to the next 3 years of UEFA club competitions - next year sees the introduction of a 3rd competition (Europa Conference) and UEFA want to move some prize money from the Champions League to make it economically viable - the big clubs don't want that, particularly with the pandemic hanging around

Barcelona represents every Catalan.
They won't fold.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:21 pm

Mergers? Burnley Rovers? God no, I’d rather we went bust!

We were Rovers first .....I think.

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:06 am

We were Rovers first .....I think.

we were indeed

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:16 am

we were indeed

The " Rovers " bit was dropped shortly after the Club changed from Rugby rules to Association Football ....
Not sure many on here would approve of a change back to " Egg chasing " ...

However, a front row of Mee, Bardsley and Barnes would be quite combative, Wood and Pope in the 2nd Row, Pieters and Taylor as Flankers with Tarkowski at Number 8 .... you never know !

Clarets4me wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:27 am

The " Rovers " bit was dropped shortly after the Club changed from Rugby rules to Association Football ....
Not sure many on here would approve of a change back to " Egg chasing " ...

However, a front row of Mee, Bardsley and Barnes would be quite combative, Wood and Pope in the 2nd Row, Pieters and Taylor as Flankers with Tarkowski at Number 8 .... you never know !

Dwight would be the new Rory Underwood.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:01 am

Barcelona represents every Catalan.
They won't fold.

Exactly, and the Spanish government isn’t exactly a fan of Catalan at the moment. There’s politics afoot.

As a club it deserves all of this happening and more, caving in to Messi every year and letting him almost dictate what happens at the club has been pathetic given they have been way off winning the Champions League for a good few years and now La Liga is following the pattern playing second fiddle to both Madrid clubs.

Their future?
Not such a beautiful horizon.

Devils_Advocate wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:31 pm

Definitely not, señor Pablo would never be so negativo

Brilliant

Clarets4me wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:27 am

The " Rovers " bit was dropped shortly after the Club changed from Rugby rules to Association Football ....
Not sure many on here would approve of a change back to " Egg chasing " ...

However, a front row of Mee, Bardsley and Barnes would be quite combative, Wood and Pope in the 2nd Row, Pieters and Taylor as Flankers with Tarkowski at Number 8 .... you never know !

Bardsley and Mee are the only ones in that list that could hack a proper contact sport!

Commy wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:19 pm

Didn't Real Madrid sell their training ground to pay off debt a number of years ago?

Yeah a government bail out. 500m wern't it? The are the Kings club.

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:28 am

Yeah a government bail out. 500m wern't it? The are the Kings club.

There are 2 teams that count in Spain, as everyone knows
You have named why the team above are protected and the people of Catalunya protect the second. Their beacon which shines against Spain.

gandhisflipflop wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:28 am

Yeah a government bail out. 500m wern't it? The are the Kings club.

And the European courts ruled it was state aid and they were fined for it

There’s a couple of their players I’d be willing for us to take a look at.

BurnleyFC wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 12:17 pm

There’s a couple of their players I’d be willing for us to take a look at.

I can imagine Riqui Puig in a Sean Dyche side.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:36 am

There are 2 teams that count in Spain, as everyone knows
You have named why the team above are protected and the people of Catalunya protect the second. Their beacon which shines against Spain.

They are both as bad as each other

We've all met people who socially aim to outpace people by having more money to buy more rounds, do more things etc.

Real Madrid started this ridiculous hyper-inflation of football in the 80s, but they can do that because it's a state-sponsored club.

It's a national institution versus the rest of the world.

Barcelona try to be the Catalan equivalent and it looks to be coming unstuck, but they have the fan base to rebuild from scratch at any time, like Glasgow Rangers.

The stupid thing is with Barcelona is that Laporta and Pep left them with a ready made blueprint for success along with a conveyor belt of talent coming through La masia a lot of which they sold off and went in a completely different direction due to the over inflated egos of Rossell and latterly Bartemaeu. Now they are paying the price.

There's coverage in The Telegraph today of the Barcelona figures, it says that RM's position is pretty much as bad. Relevant para is

"Telegraph Sport has long highlighted the reliance of the two Spanish powers, Barcelona and their rivals Real Madrid, on debt and long-term borrowing and a precarious financial approach to club-building has laid the ground for a catastrophic collapse in the Covid-19 era. Madrid’s debt, which includes the €575 million (£511m) bonds to rebuild the Bernabeu Stadium, is also over €1 billion (£890m) and may be much more. The two clubs’ days as predators circling the Premier League’s best players are over and the haste with which they have pursued European super league proposals, led by Real president Florentino Pérez, demonstrates the desperation to show creditors increased future revenue streams."

and

"With Pérez at Real and a succession of Barcelona presidents, money has been spent and debt accumulated with a carelessness that would not have been the case had it been their own resources at risk. The Uefa Financial Fair Play regulations that were brought in to curb the billionaire owners of clubs in the Premier League and elsewhere have not, it seemed, been comprehensive enough to save the membership-owned clubs whose model was long held up as the best way of ensuring a stable future."

Pep will have to go on a mission.

IanMcL wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 26, 2021 3:42 pm

Pep will have to go on a mission.

Whats the point? He practicly handed them success for years top come and they threw it away. B0ll0cks to them I say.

Yes but he is a devoted Catalan.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:01 pm

Those numbers are startling, but I somehow suspect that they'll survive this crisis, might explain why the European giants are so keen on this ESL idea though.

It sounds extreme but just maybe a genuine giant going burst will finally bring the game to it's senses, but I'm not holding out hope, I've thought this way for the last 20 years or so, and football seems immune from the normal economics which impact other sectors, certainly at the levels that the likes of Barca are operating at.

Rangers went pop and it didn’t really mean nothing. Someone else just steps in. Or I’m rangers case Celtic had zero competition.

The problem for Barca is the Catalan thing too. Spain will have no problem with them going pop.

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:10 pm

I have been posting about Barcelona's reckless finances for years on the MMT thread- there is plenty there from the last few days including
their full accounts today and @SwissRambles assessment

Do you have a link?

Lowbankclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am

Do you have a link?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20891&start=6165