Concussion subs

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huw.Y.WattfromWare
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Concussion subs

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:04 pm

Coming in from Feb 6th

4:20
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by 4:20 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:07 pm

I really hope they don't try and 'game' that one.

huw.Y.WattfromWare
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:13 pm

4:20 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:07 pm
I really hope they don't try and 'game' that one.
Absolute certainty that it will be abused when a manager has used all his subs and needs a change. If proven, VAR, the concussed player should be off with no sub.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:19 pm

They should make it that if a team has to make a concussion sub the opposition automatically gets an extra free normal sub in the same game.
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by DCWat » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:21 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:19 pm
They should make it that if a team has to make a concussion sub the opposition automatically gets an extra free normal sub in the same game.
That is happening, isn’t it?

dsr
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by dsr » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:21 pm

4:20 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:07 pm
I really hope they don't try and 'game' that one.
They already do. How many of the players seen down holding their head do you think are really hurt?

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:25 pm

DCWat wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:21 pm
That is happening, isn’t it?

Is it ? I was only being cynical due to all clubs being willing to take advantage of a rule when given a chance

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by dibraidio » Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:30 pm

There are some fans who accuse our players of going down with fake head injuries to slow down the game or waste time. Thing is, if a player comes off with a concussion substitution doesn't he have to miss the next game?

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by DCWat » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:22 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:25 pm
Is it ? I was only being cynical due to all clubs being willing to take advantage of a rule when given a chance
I’d read that there would be two allowed per game, per team and that if a team uses one, the other team is allowed an additional substitution. I’be not read that as the official rule, so don’t hold me to it!! :)

It’d be very rare to see more than two in a game, especially from one team. However, if a team were to have more than two instances in a game, I wonder what would happen then.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by bobinho » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:40 pm

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:13 pm
Absolute certainty that it will be abused when a manager has used all his subs and needs a change. If proven, VAR, the concussed player should be off with no sub.
Agree wholeheartedly. Already plans will be afoot.

We’ll be in trouble if we are hoping VAR will sort it out tho....

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Pearcey » Fri Jan 29, 2021 4:42 pm

This has got the Rugby blood capsule scandal written all over it.
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huw.Y.WattfromWare
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:22 pm

Can confirm DC Watt’s comment above. It is two per side per game. No comment on bonus subs for opposition though.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Jeffbfc » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:36 pm

Is there any word on how many games the player going off will miss due to said concussion?

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Vegas Claret » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:43 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:30 pm
There are some fans who accuse our players of going down with fake head injuries to slow down the game or waste time. Thing is, if a player comes off with a concussion substitution doesn't he have to miss the next game?
this HAS to be done to stop the cheating. The only caveat is it could make players who are injured want to stay on, tricky one. Who is making the decision to sub the player, club doctor or a PL appointed independent doctor ?

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by mdd2 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:11 pm

Wont be VAR you need but a quick MRI :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh for the old times-no doubt apochryphal, but presubs it is said that Liverpool player was injured by a clash of heads.
The trainer went on and reported back to Shanks that the player would have to come off-"he doesn't know who he is, we have to take him off"
Shanks response "Keep him on and tell his name is Pele!!!"
Just love it to be true

huw.Y.WattfromWare
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:30 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:11 pm
Wont be VAR you need but a quick MRI :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh for the old times-no doubt apochryphal, but presubs it is said that Liverpool player was injured by a clash of heads.
The trainer went on and reported back to Shanks that the player would have to come off-"he doesn't know who he is, we have to take him off"
Shanks response "Keep him on and tell his name is Pele!!!"
Just love it to be true
The VAR suggestion was purely to catch the fakers, no contact guys.
I can’t see anybody taking the gaffer up on his plan to “smash your head into an opponent then stay down”.

Devils_Advocate
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Devils_Advocate » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:33 pm

What a good move as Its about time this was brought into play. Football players health and well being should always be the priority and just think how you would feel if one of our players suffered a serious injury due to being left on the pitch with concussion.

My only worry is that this could be spoilt by partisan fans who are likely to prejudge that the players will cheat and feign injury. I think no matter how seriously concussed and at risk players are the opposition fans will always shout foul play which is very sad and pathetic

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by huw.Y.WattfromWare » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:53 pm

There will be bonus subs for the opposition.
All explained here:
http://www.skysports.com/share/12206665

dsr
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by dsr » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:02 am

Perhaps they should make it a rule that when the ref has to stop play for a head injury, then that player must be taken off regardless. Of course they would need 5 or 6 concussion subs if they did that, and probably still find it insufficient. A pat on the shoulder is enough to cause concussion nowadays, it seems.

First thing they need to do is get the players to take it seriously. There's no point in anyone - FA, refs, PL, managers - trying to do anything about concussion of the players are taking the mick out of the system. Players should be told - and if the PFA was any use at all as a trade organisation, they would be told - that pretending to have a head injury when you haven't, is just as much a no-no as pretending to be drowning in a public swimming pool. It must not happen, full stop.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:07 am

The only way players would take it seriously would be if they were suspended for faking injury, which we know would never be introduced as a rule.

The only other way is to bar players from partaking in footballing activities for a couple of weeks if taken off with a head injury.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:21 am

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:07 am
The only way players would take it seriously would be if they were suspended for faking injury, which we know would never be introduced as a rule.

The only other way is to bar players from partaking in footballing activities for a couple of weeks if taken off with a head injury.
Rugby led the way on the faking issue as they have with var and concussion - remember the scandal of Bloodgate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodgate ... scandal%22.

the punishments ensured that it was never repeated

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by bfcmik » Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:07 am

I would suspect that a medical clearance would need to be shown before the player can play again as happens in the NFL under their concussion protocol. No system is abuse proof though and it WILL be used be used when someone's job is on the line or their are, potentially, hundreds of millions of £££ at stake and all normal subs have already been used

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by ClaretFelix » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:11 pm

In my opinion there should be no "concussion" subs, just subs. If a player is knocked out or suffering a head injury, he should be substituted. If there are no substitutes available, whilst being unfortunate, hard luck, he should be made to leave the field for treatment and assessment, regardless if he wants to continue or not.
It's a game of tactics, when to make subs and how many etc.
I get that head injuries are potentially serious, but where do we stop?
The same rule isn't coming in for ACL subs, or broken leg subs is it?

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Devils_Advocate » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:15 pm

ClaretFelix wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:11 pm
In my opinion there should be no "concussion" subs, just subs. If a player is knocked out or suffering a head injury, he should be substituted. If there are no substitutes available, whilst being unfortunate, hard luck. It's a game of tactics, when to make subs and how many etc.
I get that head injuries are potentially serious, but where do we stop?
The same rule isn't coming in for ACL subs, or broken leg subs is it?
Its not just that head injuries are very serious but with concussion you can feel ok to carry on and then do some real permanent damage to yourself. If you break your leg its pretty obvious you're f*cked and unless you have a psychopath for a manager you are not going to play on with it

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Caballo » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:16 pm

The protocols are already established and there to follow, however football will be too arrogant to adopt a working template as demonstrated with VAR.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Chester Perry » Wed Feb 03, 2021 3:13 pm

Caballo wrote:
Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:16 pm
The protocols are already established and there to follow, however football will be too arrogant to adopt a working template as demonstrated with VAR.
it is a sad state of affairs isn't it

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:40 am

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... #no-js-nav

West ham have used this option, so it's going to be interesting to see how this progresses.

aggi
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by aggi » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:30 pm

Badly I imagine. A full assessment takes time and managers aren't going to want to go down to ten men for that time so they'll put players back on and "assess" them as they play.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:33 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:30 pm
Badly I imagine. A full assessment takes time and managers aren't going to want to go down to ten men for that time so they'll put players back on and "assess" them as they play.
They took him off as a precaution after a clash of heads left him with a lump.

Now we need to know if he's then had full scans etc today/tomorrow.
If he's in their next squad for the weekend...

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by aggi » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:30 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:33 pm
They took him off as a precaution after a clash of heads left him with a lump.

Now we need to know if he's then had full scans etc today/tomorrow.
If he's in their next squad for the weekend...
He played on until halftime though rather than being assessed straight off.
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Re: Concussion subs

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:34 pm

aggi wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:30 pm
He played on until halftime though rather than being assessed straight off.
I think they're allowed to see how he is if he's playing, but I'll have to read how it works again.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Zlatan » Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:39 pm

call me cynical but I noticed a few more players lately go down and hold their heads - its as if they've been instructed to in order to give the manager an option of another sub should they choose to

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by aggi » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:07 pm

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote:
Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:34 pm
I think they're allowed to see how he is if he's playing, but I'll have to read how it works again.
Yes, that's what I mean. If they had proper protocols in place they'd be assessed off the pitch, not "get back out there and see how it goes". That takes ten minutes or so though so it isn't going to be a popular option.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Bordeauxclaret » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:10 pm

Players seem to go down with head injuries almost every game now.
I’m sure it didn’t used to happen as much.

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by Sproggy » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:15 pm

mdd2 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:11 pm
Wont be VAR you need but a quick MRI :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh for the old times-no doubt apochryphal, but presubs it is said that Liverpool player was injured by a clash of heads.
The trainer went on and reported back to Shanks that the player would have to come off-"he doesn't know who he is, we have to take him off"
Shanks response "Keep him on and tell his name is Pele!!!"
Just love it to be true
It was John Lambie of Partick Thistle.

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/sport/foo ... g-14513532

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Re: Concussion subs

Post by GodIsADeeJay81 » Wed Feb 10, 2021 10:59 pm

The chief of Headway has said that football aren't going about this the right way, unsurprisingly for football.

They advocated the use of temp subs, to allow the medical teams time to check the injured player properly.

They said it was a mistake to allow the West Ham player to carry on until half time.

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