Coming in from Feb 6th

I really hope they don't try and 'game' that one.

4:20 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:07 pm

I really hope they don't try and 'game' that one.

Absolute certainty that it will be abused when a manager has used all his subs and needs a change. If proven, VAR, the concussed player should be off with no sub.

They should make it that if a team has to make a concussion sub the opposition automatically gets an extra free normal sub in the same game.

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:19 pm

They should make it that if a team has to make a concussion sub the opposition automatically gets an extra free normal sub in the same game.

That is happening, isn’t it?

4:20 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:07 pm

I really hope they don't try and 'game' that one.

They already do. How many of the players seen down holding their head do you think are really hurt?

DCWat wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:21 pm

That is happening, isn’t it?

Is it ? I was only being cynical due to all clubs being willing to take advantage of a rule when given a chance

There are some fans who accuse our players of going down with fake head injuries to slow down the game or waste time. Thing is, if a player comes off with a concussion substitution doesn't he have to miss the next game?

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:25 pm

Is it ? I was only being cynical due to all clubs being willing to take advantage of a rule when given a chance

I’d read that there would be two allowed per game, per team and that if a team uses one, the other team is allowed an additional substitution. I’be not read that as the official rule, so don’t hold me to it!!

It’d be very rare to see more than two in a game, especially from one team. However, if a team were to have more than two instances in a game, I wonder what would happen then.

huw.Y.WattfromWare wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:13 pm

Absolute certainty that it will be abused when a manager has used all his subs and needs a change. If proven, VAR, the concussed player should be off with no sub.

Agree wholeheartedly. Already plans will be afoot.

We’ll be in trouble if we are hoping VAR will sort it out tho....

This has got the Rugby blood capsule scandal written all over it.

Can confirm DC Watt’s comment above. It is two per side per game. No comment on bonus subs for opposition though.

Is there any word on how many games the player going off will miss due to said concussion?

dibraidio wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:30 pm

There are some fans who accuse our players of going down with fake head injuries to slow down the game or waste time. Thing is, if a player comes off with a concussion substitution doesn't he have to miss the next game?

this HAS to be done to stop the cheating. The only caveat is it could make players who are injured want to stay on, tricky one. Who is making the decision to sub the player, club doctor or a PL appointed independent doctor ?

Wont be VAR you need but a quick MRI
Oh for the old times-no doubt apochryphal, but presubs it is said that Liverpool player was injured by a clash of heads.
The trainer went on and reported back to Shanks that the player would have to come off-"he doesn't know who he is, we have to take him off"
Shanks response "Keep him on and tell his name is Pele!!!"
Just love it to be true

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:11 pm

Wont be VAR you need but a quick MRI
Oh for the old times-no doubt apochryphal, but presubs it is said that Liverpool player was injured by a clash of heads.
The trainer went on and reported back to Shanks that the player would have to come off-"he doesn't know who he is, we have to take him off"
Shanks response "Keep him on and tell his name is Pele!!!"
Just love it to be true

The VAR suggestion was purely to catch the fakers, no contact guys.
I can’t see anybody taking the gaffer up on his plan to “smash your head into an opponent then stay down”.

What a good move as Its about time this was brought into play. Football players health and well being should always be the priority and just think how you would feel if one of our players suffered a serious injury due to being left on the pitch with concussion.

My only worry is that this could be spoilt by partisan fans who are likely to prejudge that the players will cheat and feign injury. I think no matter how seriously concussed and at risk players are the opposition fans will always shout foul play which is very sad and pathetic

There will be bonus subs for the opposition.
All explained here:
http://www.skysports.com/share/12206665

Perhaps they should make it a rule that when the ref has to stop play for a head injury, then that player must be taken off regardless. Of course they would need 5 or 6 concussion subs if they did that, and probably still find it insufficient. A pat on the shoulder is enough to cause concussion nowadays, it seems.

First thing they need to do is get the players to take it seriously. There's no point in anyone - FA, refs, PL, managers - trying to do anything about concussion of the players are taking the mick out of the system. Players should be told - and if the PFA was any use at all as a trade organisation, they would be told - that pretending to have a head injury when you haven't, is just as much a no-no as pretending to be drowning in a public swimming pool. It must not happen, full stop.

The only way players would take it seriously would be if they were suspended for faking injury, which we know would never be introduced as a rule.

The only other way is to bar players from partaking in footballing activities for a couple of weeks if taken off with a head injury.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:07 am

The only way players would take it seriously would be if they were suspended for faking injury, which we know would never be introduced as a rule.

The only other way is to bar players from partaking in footballing activities for a couple of weeks if taken off with a head injury.

Rugby led the way on the faking issue as they have with var and concussion - remember the scandal of Bloodgate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloodgate ... scandal%22.

the punishments ensured that it was never repeated

I would suspect that a medical clearance would need to be shown before the player can play again as happens in the NFL under their concussion protocol. No system is abuse proof though and it WILL be used be used when someone's job is on the line or their are, potentially, hundreds of millions of £££ at stake and all normal subs have already been used

In my opinion there should be no "concussion" subs, just subs. If a player is knocked out or suffering a head injury, he should be substituted. If there are no substitutes available, whilst being unfortunate, hard luck, he should be made to leave the field for treatment and assessment, regardless if he wants to continue or not.
It's a game of tactics, when to make subs and how many etc.
I get that head injuries are potentially serious, but where do we stop?
The same rule isn't coming in for ACL subs, or broken leg subs is it?

ClaretFelix wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:11 pm

In my opinion there should be no "concussion" subs, just subs. If a player is knocked out or suffering a head injury, he should be substituted. If there are no substitutes available, whilst being unfortunate, hard luck. It's a game of tactics, when to make subs and how many etc.
I get that head injuries are potentially serious, but where do we stop?
The same rule isn't coming in for ACL subs, or broken leg subs is it?

Its not just that head injuries are very serious but with concussion you can feel ok to carry on and then do some real permanent damage to yourself. If you break your leg its pretty obvious you're f*cked and unless you have a psychopath for a manager you are not going to play on with it

The protocols are already established and there to follow, however football will be too arrogant to adopt a working template as demonstrated with VAR.

Caballo wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:16 pm

The protocols are already established and there to follow, however football will be too arrogant to adopt a working template as demonstrated with VAR.

it is a sad state of affairs isn't it

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... #no-js-nav

West ham have used this option, so it's going to be interesting to see how this progresses.

Badly I imagine. A full assessment takes time and managers aren't going to want to go down to ten men for that time so they'll put players back on and "assess" them as they play.

aggi wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:30 pm

Badly I imagine. A full assessment takes time and managers aren't going to want to go down to ten men for that time so they'll put players back on and "assess" them as they play.

They took him off as a precaution after a clash of heads left him with a lump.

Now we need to know if he's then had full scans etc today/tomorrow.
If he's in their next squad for the weekend...

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:33 pm

They took him off as a precaution after a clash of heads left him with a lump.

Now we need to know if he's then had full scans etc today/tomorrow.
If he's in their next squad for the weekend...

He played on until halftime though rather than being assessed straight off.

aggi wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:30 pm

He played on until halftime though rather than being assessed straight off.

I think they're allowed to see how he is if he's playing, but I'll have to read how it works again.

call me cynical but I noticed a few more players lately go down and hold their heads - its as if they've been instructed to in order to give the manager an option of another sub should they choose to

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:34 pm

I think they're allowed to see how he is if he's playing, but I'll have to read how it works again.

Yes, that's what I mean. If they had proper protocols in place they'd be assessed off the pitch, not "get back out there and see how it goes". That takes ten minutes or so though so it isn't going to be a popular option.

Players seem to go down with head injuries almost every game now.
I’m sure it didn’t used to happen as much.

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:11 pm

Wont be VAR you need but a quick MRI
Oh for the old times-no doubt apochryphal, but presubs it is said that Liverpool player was injured by a clash of heads.
The trainer went on and reported back to Shanks that the player would have to come off-"he doesn't know who he is, we have to take him off"
Shanks response "Keep him on and tell his name is Pele!!!"
Just love it to be true

It was John Lambie of Partick Thistle.

https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/sport/foo ... g-14513532

The chief of Headway has said that football aren't going about this the right way, unsurprisingly for football.

They advocated the use of temp subs, to allow the medical teams time to check the injured player properly.

They said it was a mistake to allow the West Ham player to carry on until half time.

aggi wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:30 pm

Badly I imagine. A full assessment takes time and managers aren't going to want to go down to ten men for that time so they'll put players back on and "assess" them as they play.

A couple of examples this week (Aarons and Martinez) of concussed players playing on whilst concussed and then having to come off. Obviously very predictable

aggi wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:06 am

A couple of examples this week (Aarons and Martinez) of concussed players playing on whilst concussed and then having to come off. Obviously very predictable

Any physio/doctor who couldn't see that Aarons was concussed, shouldn't be practising. It wasn't hard to spot.

I thought Beyer looked to be out today as well.

I think concussion subs are a great idea. Meyer yesterday could have been replaced for 5 minutes while he was assessed, i also think that assessment probably needs to be done by an independent doctor.

Its important that players are protected as well as clubs from any future legal problems.

aggi wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 30, 2022 12:06 am

A couple of examples this week (Aarons and Martinez) of concussed players playing on whilst concussed and then having to come off. Obviously very predictable

It's incredible that Football is pretending 'second impact syndrome ' isn't a thing. A centre half with a headed clearance whilst playing concussed could literally be putting their life on the line.

Beyer was down for a while without any movement and then staggered like a drunk for 3 or 4 yards
I think someone should have made the call to take him off
Obviously he wants to carry on but players need saving from their own desire sometimes

I hazard a guess that a considerable amount of the examples of players playing on are misplaced bravado.

It's seen as a weakness to not be able to take a knock. That isn't going to change anytime soon, unless, god forbid, something terrible happens to a high profile player.

Even then, it will be slow, as most humans love a battler and an apparent warrior.

Teams like Reading will definitely 'game' it, they were taking it in turns to lay on the turf at the points in the game that we were getting on top.

BleedingClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 30, 2022 8:17 am

Beyer was down for a while without any movement and then staggered like a drunk for 3 or 4 yards
I think someone should have made the call to take him off
Obviously he wants to carry on but players need saving from their own desire sometimes

He was moving until the physios kept him still, I don't think he was knocked out

Martinez was shocking situation management. An accidental knee to the head from his own player and he’s flat on his back for 5 minutes. Mings should have told the physios what had happened and he’d have been off.

And again. The current rules are terrible.

aggi wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 1:18 pm

And again. The current rules are terrible.

Laughable, he looked like he'd been in with Tyson.

Iran trainer "Bloody hell, mate, your nose is huge and bent out of shape...."

Iranian keeper "Cheeky buddder, id alway bin bike dat..."

Was there an explanation why Dier wasn't allowed on to replace MAguire? Was he not ready or did the ref stop him entering the field like it looked? Shouldn't ref any more games this tournament if it was the latter..

I see a change to a temporary concussion sub has been ruled out by IFAB.