jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:59 am

I would never see anyone losing their job as “good news”. I just want us to do better as a club and people refuse to see that gambling is so heavily associated with mental health. What happened to banning in-game betting adverts? Have you noticed that they’ve started to creep back in? This because betting firms completely prey on the vulnerable. I know five people who are associated with the betting industry. Two have left the profession and don’t agree with the harm it’s causing; one doesn’t agree with me and two remain in the profession but don’t like the way things are heading. The stories they’ve told about luring in gamblers with incentives, even though they’ve capped their fronting or put time-outs on their account, are frightening.

It’s a good debate to have but sadly, there’s a core of fans that cannot make the connection between the over-saturation taking place and mental health.

I have challenged each of these people with the following when discussing Burnley’s relationship with gambling (I have also challenged two current employees of the club; one of who insists there’s ‘no harm in it’):

If a huge porn website offered a few £8 million per season, as opposed to our current £7.5 million shirt sponsorship, would you happily support the club in accepting the sponsorship and would you buy the shirt?

Betting and porn.... both can be ‘enjoyed’ by 18s and over, legally.

Neither should be ‘enjoyed’ by under 18s.

Both can lead to addiction and possibly (money loss).

Both can be damaging to relationships.

Both can be damaging to mental health.

The response, nine times out of ten is ‘absolutely not, they’re two totally different things (there’s ‘shame’ associated with porn) etc...’

People just don’t see it!!!

People used to have to go into town to place a bet; now they’re being almost forced to (see Ladbrokes officials on the upper Longside last season, literally pulling people on the shoulder, during conversations, telling people ‘You’re gonna have s bet today, aren’t you?’


It’s just not good enough. It needs to stop and we need to become a better and more ethical club for our future fans. I’m not saying people can’t have a bet, of course they can, but place it outside the ground....or if we have to go down this road, just rely on one sponsor.... (see the 21 different endorsements counted inside the ground last season during a single one minute period).

Remove the saturation; be better; it’s achievable.

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:11 pm

Thanks for this post claptrappers. I found it interesting that you believe I’ve led a very sheltered life, but these are your opinions so I will duly take them on board.

For the record, I have experienced all of the aforementioned things within this thread, with the exception of smoking. I’ve never gone near a cigarette and I’m okay about that. Gambling, I’ve been doing it since I was in year eight, gambling with the bus driver on the way to school. I opened my first online account when I got a card and gambled online for 17 years. In total I lost just over £320, but I’d had enough, could see what it was doing to my mental health and could see where it could further leave. I considered it a lucky escape.

Interestingly, both you and Dan have contributed heavily on this thread. I have a lot of respect for both of you and indeed, consider Dan to be a friend as I know him personally. He disagrees with me, I have no issue with that and I would never try and belittle him with personal comparisons. I have always found Fan to pay me the same respect.

The same goes to you. You don’t like my opinion and that’s okay. The difference being, I feel like I have respected what you have had to say. I thought you had more class than to offer comments such as those. Best wishes.

TsarBomba wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:06 pm

Our commercial income is so small, and operating margins so fine, that we simply can’t sniff at the deal with LoveBet.

I’d love us to have ‘Pendleside Hospice’ or another charity blazoned across the shirt, but we’re not Barcelona, and it ain’t going to happen.

I admire Jdrobbo’s passion for this, but there are so many moral stands you could make with football, and gambling is just one of them.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:01 pm

Didn't Burnley develop an I Pie app in the past, or am I imagining that?

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:06 pm

What is more or less certain is that when fans return the club will be looking to significantly raise the level of matchday spend by those attending games - it is one of the things that clearly differentiates America and Europe. I expect the use of technology to be key to that, as it drives and profits from the data the club will hold on fans, that data will be used for individual focused marketing offers and also be used to help grow other commercial sponsorship opportunities at the club. It is already in operation at a few clubs but there is a long way for the Premier League to go before it comes close to what is going on in the US. This is yet another thing I have been tracking on the MMT thread.

Incidentally the biggest growth area in US sports revenue streams this last year is legalised betting. We are likely to see betting sponsors disappear from shirts, but I expect betting to be more prevalent at games in general (not necessarily our club) - whether our new owners incorporate this (given the guidelines of their faith) will be interesting to watch.

aggi wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:16 pm

I think this bloke was behind it

Den_Perry wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:32 pm

Haha! Brilliant....can’t quite remember the context/reasoning for that pic being produced. Can you remind me Dan?

claptrappers_union wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:54 pm

My best friend married a Jehovah Witness (she’s not anymore) and I remember thinking she had a very sheltered life.

We got into a debate about the actress Robin Wright appearing naked in a scene in Forest Gump, I was explaining the justification and she just wouldn’t have it. To her is was porn.

Jdrobbo comes across a bit like that in this thread.

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:36 pm

Was it a Pretending-Ron special?

Den_Perry wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:51 pm

Can’t remember if I did that one or not....been a while since I cranked up the old photoshop!

I’m good thanks, hope you are too. Can’t be easy being a teacher at the moment; we’re learning a bit about that with the home schooling, we have even more respect for your profession now!!

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:11 pm

Thanks for this post claptrappers. I found it interesting that you believe I’ve led a very sheltered life, but these are your opinions so I will duly take them on board.

For the record, I have experienced all of the aforementioned things within this thread, with the exception of smoking. I’ve never gone near a cigarette and I’m okay about that. Gambling, I’ve been doing it since I was in year eight, gambling with the bus driver on the way to school. I opened my first online account when I got a card and gambled online for 17 years. In total I lost just over £320, but I’d had enough, could see what it was doing to my mental health and could see where it could further leave. I considered it a lucky escape.

Interestingly, both you and Dan have contributed heavily on this thread. I have a lot of respect for both of you and indeed, consider Dan to be a friend as I know him personally. He disagrees with me, I have no issue with that and I would never try and belittle him with personal comparisons. I have always found Fan to pay me the same respect.

The same goes to you. You don’t like my opinion and that’s okay. The difference being, I feel like I have respected what you have had to say. I thought you had more class than to offer comments such as those. Best wishes.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:45 pm

On the WhatsApp group it was agreed that the version you did was better.

This was either something to do with 2BR or one of the local papers - ******* on Burnley or something like that wasn't it?

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:55 pm

It's only to be hoped that the tribe have taken after their mother if you're trying to home school them

Danieljwaterhouse wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:50 pm

Jdrobbo is looking without the tinted glasses some are wearing.

Addiction is not something you just give up. It’s not weak willed people. It’s not a localised class issue.

Just because you are lucky enough to have sound mental health doesn’t mean we should ignore others. Compassion to others is a foundation of a positive society.

Den_Perry wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:58 pm

How very dare you sir!

It’s mostly the missus to be fair although I’m trying to help in the mornings before I go into the office to escape the madness!

cricketfieldclarets wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:43 pm

And the man of the match sponsored by Benedictine is fine?

And selling a pie and a pint alongside crisps and chocolate is fine?

And a smoking area where kids enter and exit is fine?

I accept gambling can have bad outcomes. But so can crossing the road.

There’s a time where people have to take some personal responsibility.

I enjoy a bet. Hate smoking. Don’t mind a pint. None have ever ruined my life.

Crossing the road almost did though and I ended up in hospital for three months. If only they banned cars and roads...

Bordeauxclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:56 pm

Just out of interest, could you give a bit more detail as to what you thought this issue, which cost you £19 per year on average, was doing to your mental health?

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:59 pm

Well I wasn’t expecting this, but ok. You have done what most people do...quick fag paper calculation and come to an annual loss of £19. Yep, easily affordable...won’t notice it has gone.

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:23 pm

I appreciate that there are many many things with risks attached to them and of varying degrees. But for people to mention eating chocolate and crisps or a pie and a pint in the same breath as gambling is worrying.

I’m not against anyone having a little flutter every now and again if they enjoy doing so but the point is that gambling can often lead to depression, huge debt, families splitting up and worse then you have to try and understand that the degree attached to gambling is far more damaging and extreme than other vices mentioned above. I can’t remember the last story I read about Mars Bars or Holland’s Potato and Meat pies ruining lives.

And on that basis, football teams in the most exposed league in the world are being somewhat irresponsible by pushing and advertising these betting companies.

dandeclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:30 am

I would take a view that the “can often” element of your post to be the area I would disagree with. I’d argue with statistically it’s “can occasionally”. I’d also point out, that can occasionally is too many still, but is a reducing number given the improvement in technology to identify problem gambling. In the same way eating too many pies / fast food can occasionally lead to a heart attack, and a pint can occasionally lead to alcoholism leading to people suffering similar fates to gambling harm. But people are not looking to ban their involvement or sponsorship at the football club.

The key question is whether you think that gambling companies are doing enough to counter that risk of harm, or not. Some suggest banning advertising or banning gambling as a solution, I disagree with that point of view, pretty strongly as my posts have highlighted, and countered it with some of the controls that gambling companies put in place.

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:59 pm

Well I wasn’t expecting this, but ok. You have done what most people do...quick fag paper calculation and come to an annual loss of £19. Yep, easily affordable...won’t notice it has gone.

Ok, so I’d start with a bet at the weekend...usually a nominal amount. Occasionally I’d have a bet in midweek. For some reason, £12 was the standard amount. Always a treble or four-fold. Sometimes I’d win; others I’d lose. Remember, this would be around the times of having a student loan. I’d never just go for four ‘certs’ do I tried to select carefully.

I regularly won £300-£1,000

So now go back to me point about being just £320 down after nearly two decades of doing it....that’s a lot of losses too; a lot of wasted hours; a lot of late nights (or early mornings) and a lot of thinking, ‘did I do that?’ (Bet Regret).

So you might say I lost £19 (net) over a year and all would seem rosey, but if you look at the undulating journey of that betting history, you’d see it’s many hundreds of lost pounds (luckily for me, I seemed good enough to win big neatly as much as I lost). That in turn caused me to be tired, grumpy etc.

I never considered myself to have a problem, yet when I decided enough was enough, my average stake was probably £30 a bet, two-to-three times a week. I can afford that, no problem, but I could see where it could end up. Thankfully, I had the ability snd good sense, to reflect on the whole thing and just end it.

Meanwhile, dozens of ‘We’re missing you...have a free £50 bet on us etc.’ adverts began filling my inboxes...

Hope this out a little context on the ‘seemingly’ paltry average annual loss of just £19.

Cheers

John

DCWat wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:46 am

Do you think that there is too much advertisement for gambling on TV / Radio, at grounds, on digital advertising hoardings? That’s my gripe, rather than betting or shirt sponsorship.

Out of interest, are there facts and figures on the success of the measures that the betting companies put in place to identify, help and stop problem gamblers? Has there been a significant reduction in problem gamblers?

I’ve never heard of anyone praising betting companies for supporting them with their gambling addiction (perhaps there are people out there though).

I’ve seen measures in place when I’ve been on gambling sites, but nothing that I’d assume couldn’t easily be circumvented, if I had a problem and wanted to just carry on betting. It could be that you only see these measures come into action if you’re one identified as having a potential problem.

Gambling, and I do it very infrequently, is a bit of fun for me. I bet with a level of money I’m happy to lose (of course hoping for a win) and it perks my interest in games (usually football) that otherwise I’d have little interest in.

I can imagine though, someone with a gambling problem might well be very tempted by all the silly offers that are presented to them, whilst watching a game.

martin_p wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:10 am

Put me down for 20p per goal.

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:23 pm

I appreciate that there are many many things with risks attached to them and of varying degrees. But for people to mention eating chocolate and crisps or a pie and a pint in the same breath as gambling is worrying.

mill hill claret wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:04 am

Simple solution .......dont bet ...I know plenty of people who dont bet who support burnley ...maybe they haven't seen the shirt sponsor yet eh ??

jdrobbo wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:07 am

Thank you for offering such a simple solution. So, ignore the complete saturation of our in-ground advertisement and just accept having said conditions, because it pays well?

And if I have children, do I offer them the same advice, ‘simple solution...don’t bet’?

And the children of primary age I know/ have known with gambling addiction, what about them?

What about all the team at Gambling with Lives, who are constantly supporting suicidal males due to gambling addiction....should their advice be ‘simple solution...don’t do it?’

Again, thank you for your contribution. I feel that the problem is ever so slightly more complex than you have alluded to and having not had a bet for two years, I’m glad I was able to ‘stop betting’. I’m glad I had the moral compass that pointed out where things could go and the restraint to tell myself I didn’t need it.

Do you know, the shirt sponsor, whilst still being a concern of mine, is like you imply, one of the less eye-catching of the gambling endorsements inside the ground? If you add up all the other flashing adverts, rolling displays and static boards around the ground, what we receive is just peanuts (literally peanuts) and just not necessary at all. Removing this as a starting point would go a long way to making a difference.

mill hill claret wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:14 am

As a child I was told not to smoke ...as a young teen I was told I hadn't to drink and I didnt do either ...
Do we board every pub up around turf moor so the alcoholics dont get tempted ?
I 100% stand by my comment last night ..there is only one person who can help themselves if they have a gambling problem and that is the person thier self ...if they cant afford to do it ....dont do it