Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:31 pm

You are complicating something so simple, I’m not looking at every single game Zaha hasn’t featured & giving comprehensive accounts to what’s happened over the course of 90mins, sorry to disappoint but It wouldn’t prove or disprove anything, if you’ve ever watched football you’ll see opposing managers carrying out background research into their next opponents, palace stick with a rigid formation & usually counter attack, I could give opinions on the full 11 vs 11 last night but I don’t even rate our players on the post match threads never mind other teams, I could explain potter & Hodgsons psyche pre match & post match & go into detail on that, let’s agree to disagree, good evening.

So you can only speak generally, commenting upon the obvious. I wonder what the "background research" that managers may carry out on their opponents. Statistics, surely ?
When you and your club and its staff livelihoods depend upon a little more then detailed data and subsequent statistical analysis are vital to decide which players are best suited for a particular role and which tactics are more likely to succeed.
If you disagree and believe that professional, elite managers generally make decisions based purely on hunches and guesswork that's up to you.

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:21 am

So you can only speak generally, commenting upon the obvious. I wonder what the "background research" that managers may carry out on their opponents. Statistics, surely ?
When you and your club and its staff livelihoods depend upon a little more then detailed data and subsequent statistical analysis are vital to decide which players are best suited for a particular role and which tactics are more likely to succeed.
If you disagree and believe that professional, elite managers generally make decisions based purely on hunches and guesswork that's up to you.

It’s not really hunches & guesswork if you’ve got eg 3 defenders in your squad & 1 performs better than the other 2 in training & competitively is it boy? If you believe the likes of Neil warnock & Sam allardyce prefer stats over tried & trusted methods of coaching that’s actually laughable, we are talking about a generation pre internet when you are old school & established the ways are ingrained in the psyche, stats do play a part but there are not as important as you & others like to believe, footballs been around for decades without the stats how do you think there managed before? They trusted there belief & instinct & some still do.

They did and now they don't..............boy.
You quoted Hodgson as being "old school" - not true. No doubt both Allardyce and Warnock clubs will employ statisticians to ensure the fine margins have been covered.
Again, you're making stuff up - nobody has said that Allardyce and Warnock "prefer stats over tried and trusted methods of coaching". What I and others have argued is that every elite club will employ and use statisticians to provide incredibly detailed data regarding their own and opposition players' and teams' strengths and weaknesses. Coaches and management will be advised of those strengths and weaknesses and act accordingly.

At last, you seem to have come round to accepting that although I can't imagine the claim you make about the two managers you mention will be any different to the ignorant claptrap you talked about Hodgson..
When I get time, I'll have a look at the personnel lists of WBA and Middlesbrough - both quite well-established and progressive high-level clubs.
I'd be astonished if neither employed statisticians.

Amazing that Jakub uses Sam Allardyce to support his argument, when he was one of the first managers in English football to make heavy use of sports science and statistics during his time at Bolton.

Tall Paul wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:04 pm

Amazing that Jakub uses Sam Allardyce to support his argument, when he was one of the first managers in English football to make heavy use of sports science and statistics during his time at Bolton.

Yeah, but he's old so he just uses a blackboard and chalk.

Funnily enough, sports science is something else that JC doesn't believe in.

Oh, look...

https://www.wba.co.uk/club/staff-directory


under "First Team Staff".

Oh, look...

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/foo ... h-13081524

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

MACCA wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:59 am

Apparently there's grown men who play a fantasy football type game, where stats, assists and goals are important to their points.

It might be for their benefit so they dont need to be on their phone at the pub, or cheer a Vardy goal as he is tripple magical boosted captain that game.

My son used to play, but as he said this summer "dad I'm 14 now" so didnt join a league some of my mates set up.
Just to add my mates are 35-40... beggars belief

Must be terrible feeling excluded because you are a technodonk

I think Jakub's having a lie down, bless the lad.

JohnMac wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:19 pm

Must be terrible feeling excluded because you are a technodonk

If excluded is not being on my phone 90% of the time whilst I'm with company, or cheering a goal from Vardy, Fernandes or Salah then keep me excluded, couldnt think of anything worse when I go out "socialising"

Funny thing is 99.9% of them never win anything, and it ends up being a complete and utter waste of time anyway, o may aswell play *fifa against my dog than play pretend kids games
( * obviously i dont play computer games, as again I'm not 14 )

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:43 pm

I think Jakub's having a lie down, bless the lad.

No not at all, like I said last night we will have to agree to disagree, it’s clear we are not going to see each other’s side while we’ve got a hole in our backsides & on that basis my adult response is to back out & stop going around in circles & this will be my closing post.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:10 pm

No not at all, like I said last night we will have to agree to disagree, it’s clear we are not going to see each other’s side while we’ve got a hole in our backsides & on that basis my adult response is to back out & stop going around in circles & this will be my closing post.

Are you 100% sure about that as 25% of posts on this thread have been yourself and 25% Eddies ... The stats kind of say you will post again

Good. I don't blame you.

All I'll agree to is that you haven't the foggiest clue how statistics are used to attempt to analyse past events to improve future performance. This happens in many areas of professional sport yet you seem unable to acknowledge that even though your three beacons of, you assumed, old school thinking are, in fact, nothing of the kind.

I mean this kindly so please accept it in the spirit intended - your thoughts on this issue are too daft to laugh at.

evensteadiereddie wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:43 pm

I think Jakub's having a lie down, bless the lad.

He won't be, he doesn't believe people get tired well unless they drive a lorry.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:31 pm

You are complicating something so simple, I’m not looking at every single game Zaha hasn’t featured & giving comprehensive accounts to what’s happened over the course of 90mins, sorry to disappoint but It wouldn’t prove or disprove anything, if you’ve ever watched football you’ll see opposing managers carrying out background research into their next opponents, palace stick with a rigid formation & usually counter attack, I could give opinions on the full 11 vs 11 last night but I don’t even rate our players on the post match threads never mind other teams, I could explain potter & Hodgsons psyche pre match & post match & go into detail on that, let’s agree to disagree, good evening.

Jakub, if you're still blissful in your ignorance on the importance of statistics in top level sport, you could do a lot worse than tune into the lunchtime conversation currently happening on TMS.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:19 pm

Jakub, if you're still blissful in your ignorance on the importance of statistics in top level sport, you could do a lot worse than tune into the lunchtime conversation currently happening on TMS.

I would do but you knowing me fella I'm too busy buying fence paint & educating some of you about the irrefutable association between the racist organisation oops BLM & taking the knee

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:05 pm

I would do but you knowing me fella I'm too busy buying fence paint & educating some of you about the irrefutable association between the racist organisation oops BLM & taking the knee

The thought of you educating anyone on any subject truly is the stuff of nightmares.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:20 pm

The thought of you educating anyone on any subject truly is the stuff of nightmares.

I bet he could run rings round you with the knowledge he has of his planet

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:22 pm

I bet he could run rings round you with the knowledge he has of his planet

Fair point

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 2:22 pm

I bet he could run rings round you with the knowledge he has of his planet

I think its a "lonely planet"

Classic thread.

OP seems to be complaining about the prevalence of stats used in the coverage of football, but the thread title is a bit clumsy.

This leads to people (esp Jakub, of course) railing against the use of stats per se, and suggesting we’d be better off without them

You’re basically complaining about counting stuff, and suggesting we’d be better off by just using “a few” or “many”

Any thread with Jakub in is a classic.

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:14 pm

Classic thread.

OP seems to be complaining about the prevalence of stats used in the coverage of football, but the thread title is a bit clumsy.

This leads to people (esp Jakub, of course) railing against the use of stats per se, and suggesting we’d be better off without them

You’re basically complaining about counting stuff, and suggesting we’d be better off by just using “a few” or “many”

Central to my argument was the fact that for years previously football as been going on without the use of stats, I'm told/informed by certain people the importance of stats which led me to question how the hell for hundreds of years we've managed perfectly fine without them. In modern day football I can understand the importance to a certain degree but doubt its an essential component for the game to function.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:30 pm

Central to my argument was the fact that for years previously football as been going on without the use of stats, I'm told/informed by certain people the importance of stats which led me to question how the hell for hundreds of years we've managed perfectly fine without them. In modern day football I can understand the importance to a certain degree but doubt its an essential component for the game to function.

Nobody's saying it wouldn't function.

It's simply a case of the data available is used to improve players and make teams more effective.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:14 pm

Nobody's saying it wouldn't function.

It's simply a case of the data available is used to improve players and make teams more effective.

Again that's probably true to a certain degree, but that impression certainly wasn't portrayed or maybe I've misinterpreted, like I've said before you can fit trackers/devices to monitor any said players fitness but no amount of technology can substitute a wily shrewd coach who been around the block with vast experience, he will trust his own instinct & judgement before what the results of the technology offer, he will probably look into it but the tipping edge will be what stored sat upon his shoulders.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:30 pm

Central to my argument was the fact that for years previously football as been going on without the use of stats, I'm told/informed by certain people the importance of stats which led me to question how the hell for hundreds of years we've managed perfectly fine without them. In modern day football I can understand the importance to a certain degree but doubt its an essential component for the game to function.

Stats have always been an essential component for the game to function. How else could you tell who’s winning, for a start?

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:38 pm

Stats have always been an essential component for the game to function. How else could you tell who’s winning, for a start?

I meant beyond the basics of a scoreline ect, i think you knew what I meant but wanted to be awkward as per usual, you clearly still resent me for highlighting that you used to forget things frequently on the old brexit threads when we used to discuss politics on the forum.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:57 pm

I meant beyond the basics of a scoreline ect, i think you knew what I meant but wanted to be awkward as per usual, you clearly still resent me for highlighting that you used to forget things frequently on the old brexit threads when we used to discuss politics on the forum.

Never change Jakub.

You’re my second favourite poster.

Greenmile wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:55 am

Never change Jakub.

You’re my second favourite poster.

Thankyou..