Three outcomes if we were to try Lowton in the ‘troublesome’ right midfield position (in front of Bardsley):

1. He plays well, good tackling, passing, movement off the ball and crossing

2. He plays ok (we scrape a win/draw) but it’s obvious that it will only be considered as an occasional emergency option

3. He tries his best but he just can’t adapt to the wing back role and the experiment is a failure

The point I am trying to make is - how do we know what the outcome will be unless we try it?

I'm up for anything that changes anything about the totally predictable way we play week in week out.

Lowton is slower than I am.

Brownhill Lowton mee tarks. Taylor
.Cork Stephens Westwood
Wood vydra

Pope
Lowton Tarks Mee Taylor
Cork Stephens Westwood
Jay Wood McNeil


Would love to give that a go at some point. But think we know it won’t happen

It makes more sense than Brownhill there tbh but honestly i'd rather a midfield 3 of Brownhill Westwood and Cork with 2 forwards / wingers given free reign either side of a Wood or Barnes battering ram.

I get Dyche's "everyones a football manager" diatribe, i do, but bloody hell what was to lose with trying this sunday?

Pope
Lowton Long Tarks Mee Taylor
Brownhill Cork Westwood
McNeil
Wood

Pope
Lowton Tarks Mee Taylor
Rodriguez Brownhill Cork Westwood McNeil
Wood

Wheres JBG... need I ask?

Should I be asking "How long this time?"

Absolutely. We are totally unbalanced without a man wide right. Even from JBGs recent appearances we were so much better and he hadn’t even got back to his best.
Josh Brownhill was fine in CM but not a wideman at all.

Max Thompson made a lovely JayRodesque dummy to set up Mumbongos first against West Brom.
No more round pegs in square holes. We've blooded quite a few youngsters this season for cameo roles, it's time to give one of them the chance to step up for a full game. Dwight only got his place under the same circumstances, and it worked out, maybe this will as well.

I definitely agree that if we're going to shove Brownhill into a hole wide right which he isn't really comfortable with, then we might be better trying Lowton who in theory might well make a better fist of it. But we won't!

I have been saying this for ages.I really think he would be good as he can cross a ball.is pretty quick and can beat a man. Put Bards at right back. Its worth a try while JBG is on sick leave.

Lowton has been one of our best performers this season and is having his best form of his career with us. Can’t see the point of breaking up the defence and moving him to an unfamiliar position. We lose one our our key strengths

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:48 am

Lowton has been one of our best performers this season and is having his best form of his career with us. Can’t see the point of breaking up the defence and moving him to an unfamiliar position. We lose one our our key strengths

Yes, but we are teetering on the edge of a crisis situation where some inspired thinking and a little bit of risk taking might be necessary.

If not Lowton then who would YOU play at right midfield when JBG is injured?

Worth a try but we won’t. I prefer Pieters there to Brownhill. I just don’t see what Brownhill really offers there.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:24 am

Max Thompson made a lovely JayRodesque dummy to set up Mumbongos first against West Brom.
No more round pegs in square holes. We've blooded quite a few youngsters this season for cameo roles, it's time to give one of them the chance to step up for a full game. Dwight only got his place under the same circumstances, and it worked out, maybe this will as well.

“No more round pegs.....”

McNeil was CM in youth team. Thompson is playing out of position too

Also, the idiom is “square peg in a round hole ....”

Dyche has built his success on stability and and consistent line-ups, players have to be well versed in the roles that they are playing for him, he has been here eight and a half years now everyone should recognise this. Before each game the OP suggests making a new and different change, each of which fails to recognise the managers approach - which immediately undermines the premise of the discussion points

Its pitiful that a Premier League club that religiously plays 442 has 1 recognised Wide Right player in the squad , who also happens to be incredibly injury prone.

Brownhill just doesn't work there, even Pieters was better, so Lowton must be worth a shout

randomclaret2 wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:13 pm

Its pitiful that a Premier League club that religiously plays 442 has 1 recognised Wide Right player in the squad , who also happens to be incredibly injury prone.

I would beg to differ that we don't have one right sided, wide player in our squad. JBG is very left sided and I have never liked playing wingers on their wrong side so that they are always forced to come inside on their strong side. Any decent defender would show JBG the outside in the knowledge that even if he did get his cross in it would most likely be poor quality. Last right sided player was Lennon. Lowton is worth a shout.

You’ll get shot down for this, and many others have suggested similar over the years. However there’s nothing wrong with trying to be creative with what he have available...

...alas we wouldn’t be having these types of discussion if we recruited and invested in the right players for the job.

Dyche did the same with Long up front. If any one of us suggested that they’d be burnt at the stake.

JTClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:29 pm

Brownhill just doesn't work there, even Pieters was better, so Lowton must be worth a shout

I think people who support this, fail to see the patently obvious, which is we would be strengthening one position, by making another weaker. Wether Lowts would do a job there is irrelevant imo, because we need him at right back.
Dyche does like to stick to a rigid formation, and when everyone is fit, a regular line up, but when the squad is getting down to the bare bones we have to make as few changes as possible, in order to give ourselves a chance. It would be madness to make an unforced change just to accommodate a solitary position. Giving one of the youngsters a shout would cause least disruption to the team that's left.

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:22 am

The point I am trying to make is - how do we know what the outcome will be unless we try it?

We should collect all your crazy ideas together over a season. How do we know? We employ a manager and staff who look into all these possibilities. That's how it works.

Burnley fans...... love to suggest playing full backs as wingers...... it has always been the way.

4 5 1
Normal back four
Cork, Stephens and Westwood as a central middle three (Stephens playing deeper)
Brownhill or Jay wide right with McNeill wide left
Brownhill could take up one of the central midfield roles instead of Stephens with Westwood playing the deeper position
Wood up front

We cannot get a grip of midfield when playing just Cork and Westwood, hence the hoofball

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:08 pm

4 5 1
We cannot get a grip of midfield when playing just Cork and Westwood, hence the hoofball

And when we played an extra midfielder in the first half of the 2017/18 season (when we were right up there in the table), there were cries for Hendrick to be left out and an extra striker played.

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:22 am

The point I am trying to make is - how do we know what the outcome will be unless we try it?

Some people just don't get your insightful thinking Mala591

Let's go for broke and try Pope there

How do we know what the outcome will be unless we try it

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:01 pm

Yes, but we are teetering on the edge of a crisis situation where some inspired thinking and a little bit of risk taking might be necessary.

If not Lowton then who would YOU play at right midfield when JBG is injured?

JRod

Leicester play on the counter like Spurs - so we need to change just not sure moving removing a performing right back is the answer

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:11 pm

And when we played an extra midfielder in the first half of the 2017/18 season (when we were right up there in the table), there were cries for Hendrick to be left out and an extra striker played.

I get what you are saying CT, but didn't Hendrick play more behind the striker rather than with five across the middle and both wide men supporting the striker. Hendrick, for me, always looked more comfortable when playing wide right even in a midfield four

Pope
Bardsley Tarks Mee Taylor
Brownhill Westwood
Lowton Cork McNeil
Wood

jojomk1 wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:18 pm

I get what you are saying CT, but didn't Hendrick play more behind the striker rather than with five across the middle and both wide men supporting the striker. Hendrick, for me, always looked more comfortable when playing wide right even in a midfield four

He played in front of Defour and Cork for most of that time and it was probably needed to get the best out of Defour. He got so much stick on here but I thought he did well there and I thought the team were excellent during the time Hendrick played in that position. He did OK too in that narrow position on the right and we've certainly no one to play in that position now.

As for playing Lowton there, it would have to be an emergency surely, I don't see how he's equipped for that role in the way we play at all.

I’d be all for playing 4-5-1.

No point in having 2 up front when we don’t create anything for them anyway.

Had we got Lingard on loan (which was a strong possibilty), then we could have played 451. Dyche played 451 because he had Defour primarily, and to a lesser extent Hendrich who could push up . Lets face it when did we recently have more than 2 strikers fit, meaning you play one up front , then either sub him or go to 442 during the game

If someone can pull out the player ratings from the back end of last season when Brownhill played on the right of midfield for a few games, I'd be interested in seeing them. My recollection could be wrong but I think he did quite well and there were lots of comments along the lines of "he's much better than Hendrick in that position".

He's played there twice recently and appears to be getting written off in that position. The West Brom game wasn't ideal in terms of show-casing what he can offer in that role, and the Spurs game wasn't ideal full stop but I thought he was far from our worse performer on the day. But he and Rodriguez - who has two fabulous assists and a goal in his last 4 games - appear to be the ones currently in line to be written off. For what it is worth I'd suggest allowing both of them the opportunity to play in a team with Wood leading the line before doing so.

Personally I think the idea of playing 2 out-and-out right backs in the same team isn't a very good one. I'd much rather have an energetic, technically competent if not especially spectacular midfielder out there.

I would play Pieters before Brownhill. Brownhill is good in the middle though

I share claretspice thoughts. Brownhill was excellent at Palace away last year and played well in other games too.

Brownhill seems to be the go to person to blame at the minute. Against WBA when almost all the team were awful JB at least was the one midfielder that: - played a incisive pass to get Taylor in to put the ball across the box for jay. He was also the one who drove forward with the ball twice, once to win us a free kick and the other to get absolutely clattered (possibly in the box) for vydra to be offside. Ok didn’t come off and things could have been better in his performances, but there were worse performances.
Against spurs he wasn’t great (but then not many were) but watch how slow Lowton’s recovery run is for the second goal leaving JB to cover the space he was ambling back towards. I like Lowton but he’s no right midfielder (See my concern about his recovery running) and especially in our formation where one of the widemen is tasked with coming narrow to combat being outnumbered in the centre. When JBG or Brady plays Dwight seems to do it. When Jeff played last year and hopefully as JB gets more game time in that role that should leave Dwight wider.

I actually also agree with 4-5-1 with Cork, Westwood and Brownhill in the middle. It worked in the Europe season and that also was when Brady played his best football for us.

To add re: Lowton or any fullback. Being effective running on to the ball from deep, crossing it and attacking the space on the move is world away from receiving the ball in tight spaces and attacking people from a midfield position.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:57 pm

I think people who support this, fail to see the patently obvious, which is we would be strengthening one position, by making another weaker. Wether Lowts would do a job there is irrelevant imo, because we need him at right back.
Dyche does like to stick to a rigid formation, and when everyone is fit, a regular line up, but when the squad is getting down to the bare bones we have to make as few changes as possible, in order to give ourselves a chance. It would be madness to make an unforced change just to accommodate a solitary position. Giving one of the youngsters a shout would cause least disruption to the team that's left.

It's not all that long ago that Bardsley was playing because Lowton was out of form. I wouldn't say there's a great deal between them, although when Lowton is in form, he is the better player.
Let's be honest, the madness is that we haven't signed a right midfielder/winger.

JTClaret wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:37 pm

It's not all that long ago that Bardsley was playing because Lowton was out of form. I wouldn't say there's a great deal between them, although when Lowton is in form, he is the better player.
Let's be honest, the madness is that we haven't signed a right midfielder/winger.

If we had, and JBG and Brady had avoided injury, people would be complaining that we had too many wingers. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it certainly can't help a club with our budget. At the start of the season they were both 'fit', they didn't last the first two games between them sadly. Crap like that can happen, we don't have the huge squads of other clubs, and it's why we should use the U23s in these circumstances.

Edit - duplicate

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:22 am

Three outcomes if we were to try Lowton in the ‘troublesome’ right midfield position (in front of Bardsley):

1. He plays well, good tackling, passing, movement off the ball and crossing

2. He plays ok (we scrape a win/draw) but it’s obvious that it will only be considered as an occasional emergency option

3. He tries his best but he just can’t adapt to the wing back role and the experiment is a failure

The point I am trying to make is - how do we know what the outcome will be unless we try it?

There’s a fourth - he does OK and the run their hands together at saving 10 plus million quid

He's been our best player on the pitch recently, at right back, why on earth would we change that?

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:43 pm

If we had, and JBG and Brady had avoided injury, people would be complaining that we had too many wingers. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it certainly can't help a club with our budget. At the start of the season they were both 'fit', they didn't last the first two games between them sadly. Crap like that can happen, we don't have the huge squads of other clubs, and it's why we should use the U23s in these circumstances.

Nope - 4 wingers for two positions, especially when two are made of glass

Was it Leeds away when we won with 3 right backs in the team?

Super Teds wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:42 pm

Was it Leeds away when we won with 3 right backs in the team?

Yeah

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:43 pm

If we had, and JBG and Brady had avoided injury, people would be complaining that we had too many wingers. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it certainly can't help a club with our budget. At the start of the season they were both 'fit', they didn't last the first two games between them sadly. Crap like that can happen, we don't have the huge squads of other clubs, and it's why we should use the U23s in these circumstances.

Maybe, although that would still only be 3 wingers. We had Hendrick and Lennon leaving last season, both of whom played that role.
The issue would be if we signed a player who didn't play, and/or wasn't good enough for whatever reason. I also struggle to understand why after 4 years in the prem we still can't afford 1 decent signing a season (even if over 2 windows). It has been said that attendances don't hugely impact a club compared to the TV money. I'm not saying we do have the money, just that I don't understand the finances of football.

It is quite funny though how Dyche will talk about working with what he has, but play; a right winger, left winger, centre midfielder, left back, I'm sure striker and we are now talking about the right back. It's a shame we had the start we had, as perhaps an alternative formation would have been tried if we'd had the points to be safe(r).

DCWat wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:50 pm

There’s a fourth - he does OK and the run their hands together at saving 10 plus million quid

And a fifth - It turns out Lowton is like a much slower, less skillful, right sided version of Gareth Bale. And we then buy a new right back

We will play 4-4-2 with the midfield being

McNeil Cork Westwood Brownhill

I hope it works this time but I have serious doubts

Another alternative would be

Cork Westwood Brownhill McNeil

This brings Brownhill into central midfield and McNeil would operate as an inverted winger. Cork would play narrow left so we have (in effect) three in central midfield.

Mala591 wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:11 pm

We will play 4-4-2 with the midfield being

McNeil Cork Westwood Brownhill

I hope it works this time but I have serious doubts

Another alternative would be

Cork Westwood Brownhill McNeil

This brings Brownhill into central midfield and McNeil would operate as an inverted winger. Cork would play narrow left so we have (in effect) three in central midfield.

You need to cut down on the medication