Cryptocurrency

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bfcmatt
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by bfcmatt » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:37 am

cockneyclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:06 am
Ksm is the one with the most room to move due to the supply and requirements from it so other tokens can apply for a parachain slot on it.
I wouldn't be shocked to see ksm at £800+ especially as there parachain auctions start soon.
Then who knows on price, most will be locked up (6-24 months) which will push the price up.

Dot
There auction slots will begin later in the year but again will push the price up.
Personally I'm looking at £60+ then again holding that price and moving from there.

Then you have the new tokens running off either ksm/dot ecosystems.
The next one I'm going all in on is KILT this has yet to be released for general sale. But will gain a ksm parachain slot.
Thanks for that cockney, I am going to have a good look at those when i get home today. I currently hold a good amount of eth and chainlink and several hundred graph although the graph is very unstable at the moment i do believe it will be a good long term investment. I also hold a small amount of numeraire and nano but nothing life changing in those 2
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aggi
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by aggi » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:38 am

Paul Waine wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:39 pm
Hi dsr, great post. I'm with you on all of this - cryptocurrencies are "fools gold" and it will "end in tears" and financial losses for all those who get involved.

Blockchain? Smart contracts? - they might work, though I think generally only in very special situations - and, in many of the projects people are trying to use blockchain or smart contracts there will always be better ways that use neither blockchain or smart contracts.

Many of us like art. We might buy a painting. The value of the painting might increase in value. If it's rare enough and enough people want to own the painting it can become extremely valuable - think of Van Gogh, Monet, Turner and many more.

But, bitcoin (and all the other cryptos) aren't like "Sunflowers" or "Fighting Temeraire" or "Water Lilies" - they are just "zeros and ones" in a digital record - so, no more attractive to look at than any other "zeros and ones." The day when people decide that they've had enough of bitcoin, well, good luck in selling it to someone else.

Yes, I've done my own research - and these are the conclusions I've come to - and how I will avoid losing money on cryptocurrencies.
Which is the same reason that Bitcoin is currently valuable.

Now, as you say, with a painting you have a physical product but that isn't why it's valued so highly. An exact copy would have a far lower value, it isn't the underlying physical item that gives it the value.

I'm by no means saying people should invest in bitcoin, there's every chance of losing your money. But to glibly say that it has no value because it's not tangible is ignoring how people value things.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by willsclarets » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:15 am

Leaving the concept of value to one side, how likely do you think it is in the long tern that de-centralised currencies are going to be allowed to flourish by central governments? The concept of digital currency isn't going away, but it's hard to wrestle the monopoly of currency away from governmental control. As the utility of digital currency becomes more real, it will do two things. i) Bitcoin will have to prove its utility and justify the outlook that's priced into it ii) It will have to somehow gain a real market share of global currencies at the same time central banks and government will be trying to reign establish control over digital.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by aggi » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:25 am

willsclarets wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:15 am
Leaving the concept of value to one side, how likely do you think it is in the long tern that de-centralised currencies are going to be allowed to flourish by central governments? The concept of digital currency isn't going away, but it's hard to wrestle the monopoly of currency away from governmental control. As the utility of digital currency becomes more real, it will do two things. i) Bitcoin will have to prove its utility and justify the outlook that's priced into it ii) It will have to somehow gain a real market share of global currencies at the same time central banks and government will be trying to reign establish control over digital.
I don't think Bitcoin will be the one that's going to be used as a currency. I see it as more of a store of wealth like gold or whatever.

There's still plenty of technical hurdles to be overcome before a coin can become a significant decentralised currency, the main issue being the capacity to process a huge number of transactions in a timely manner. Bitcoin is nowhere near Visa for instance.

Governmental control will certainly be a big issue, you can see that there are already steps being taken in that exchanges are required to follow Anti Money Laundering rules for instance. However, the point of it being decentralised is that it isn't controlled or run from one jurisdiction or by one provider so there is a limit on how far it can be regulated. Will certainly be an interesting one to watch.

cockneyclaret
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by cockneyclaret » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:49 am

bfcmatt wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:37 am
Thanks for that cockney, I am going to have a good look at those when i get home today. I currently hold a good amount of eth and chainlink and several hundred graph although the graph is very unstable at the moment i do believe it will be a good long term investment. I also hold a small amount of numeraire and nano but nothing life changing in those 2
Definitely worth looking and investing in, probably for the returns side Kilt when that comes out because it'll be at a low entry.
But holding eth and link your sorted!! I never bothered with link at .35p and didn't at £1.50 😂😂 oh well can't get them all

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by KateR » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:55 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:26 pm
I would certainly look at the polka network which will come ahead this year. (Polkadot and kusama)
Gavin Wood who built eth with Vitalik Buterin has created polkadot. This is the next generation eth..
Have you looked at Helium and what they have/are creating at all, would appreciate your thoughts?

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by cockneyclaret » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:04 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:55 pm
Have you looked at Helium and what they have/are creating at all, would appreciate your thoughts?
I haven't no, nor have I see it mentioned but I'll have a look later.
I've gone down the route of dot/ksm based coins for my main bags and long term, and trading a mixed bag of alts to top these up.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by KateR » Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:15 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:04 pm
I haven't no, nor have I see it mentioned but I'll have a look later.
I've gone down the route of dot/ksm based coins for my main bags and long term, and trading a mixed bag of alts to top these up.
Thanks,
they have their own cryptocurrency HNT, I don't know whether you can buy and sell yet, it's in development stages and it's interesting in terms of being able to be involve and investing in hardware to become part of the "Peoples Network", by having a node you get paid in HNT for being a miner. I have looked and done some work on it and have started it up as a small business in terms of building a small network, the miners have been ordered but obviously need to receive and set up the system before I can comment on how it actually works. I mention it because it could become something for the future but from my point of view I am not trading crypto but intend to save HNT for sometime in the future, they do have a price on the market but never looked at actually buying/selling HNT.

cockneyclaret
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by cockneyclaret » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:05 pm

KateR wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:15 pm
Thanks,
they have their own cryptocurrency HNT, I don't know whether you can buy and sell yet, it's in development stages and it's interesting in terms of being able to be involve and investing in hardware to become part of the "Peoples Network", by having a node you get paid in HNT for being a miner. I have looked and done some work on it and have started it up as a small business in terms of building a small network, the miners have been ordered but obviously need to receive and set up the system before I can comment on how it actually works. I mention it because it could become something for the future but from my point of view I am not trading crypto but intend to save HNT for sometime in the future, they do have a price on the market but never looked at actually buying/selling HNT.
I've had a look and read and it definitely offers something that could have a use in the future.. I would say it's worth keeping for a long term gamble. Plus your earning from it too.! Maybe at points take profits (25%) just incase it fizzles out to nothing.

My ultra bullish long term hold is ewt.. if you haven't looked into that I highly recommend it.
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Paul Waine
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Paul Waine » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:21 pm

aggi wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:38 am
Which is the same reason that Bitcoin is currently valuable.

Now, as you say, with a painting you have a physical product but that isn't why it's valued so highly. An exact copy would have a far lower value, it isn't the underlying physical item that gives it the value.

I'm by no means saying people should invest in bitcoin, there's every chance of losing your money. But to glibly say that it has no value because it's not tangible is ignoring how people value things.
Hi aggi, sorry, I fear you misunderstand my point. Vincent Van Gogh, Claude Monet, William Turner and many other artists had wonderful skills and it is possessing works of art produced by them that gives the originals their values. I have collected a few limited edition numbered prints of a well known artist - not "big league" I'm not a wealthy person. Maybe if I had more money I'd have bought the originals, but they cost 10, 20 and more times the price of the limited edition numbered prints. I know the prints I've bought have appreciated a little and may do some more, though that's not why I bought them. I bought them because I can hang them on the wall and enjoy looking at them. I believe the "limited edition" runs were something like 500 - but, then, as the art work has become more popular, more "limited edition" prints have been released. They are distinguished by the "2014 series," the "2016 series" and so on. Alongside that, there are "new" series produced from other originals.

Thus, we have the value of the original art works, then we have the "limited edition" prints - or "exact copy" to follow your phrase. I contend it is the "underlying physical item that gives it the value" - the original is worth many times the "copy." A painting produced by the "hand" of a master artist - recognising that works produced by "the school of...." where the "master" has also used "assistants" - has value because it has the provenance of that "master." (Note: in using the term "master" I am not excluding the great woman artists, Rose Wylie being a contemporary example).

Bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies do not have and can never have that aesthetic quality to be looked at, the quality and the beauty produced by a "master" artist to be appreciated. We can also say the same for a musical performance and "live" is so much more than the recording, whether the audio is supported by a visual recording of the "live event" or is a "studio production."

There can never be a "Satoshi original" bitcoin. The guy had a clever idea to create something that could be limited to 21 million. It's (kind of) a clever idea to call it a "cryptocurrency" and directly suggest that it is an alternative means of exchange that can substitute for "fiat currencies." But, there's nothing to stop other people inventing their copy, "bitcoin 2" "bitcoin 3" - or we can give them other names to distinguish them - and immediately bust the idea of value through scarcity.

I place bitcoin in the same category of fantasy as the emperor's new clothes. Some day a young child will come along and say those fateful words "but he's naked."
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Pstotto » Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:57 pm

With unique code now, they say if you write an email, some go into private email collections and they are bought and sold as encrypted originals or editions and stored in Swiss Banks etc., like an imploring letter from Charles Dickens to his landlord, is now.

YOU would never know.

You don't know who the collectors are and you don't know what an email collection is and where the kronies exchange.

KateR
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by KateR » Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:56 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:05 pm
I've had a look and read and it definitely offers something that could have a use in the future.. I would say it's worth keeping for a long term gamble. Plus your earning from it too.! Maybe at points take profits (25%) just incase it fizzles out to nothing.

My ultra bullish long term hold is ewt.. if you haven't looked into that I highly recommend it.
Much appreciated, I am setting this up with a long term view, I can afford the entry and hope to grow the network, it is for the the long term and to see if I can grow it, it's more of an interest for me and have a lot of investments in different things but this will be new. Intent is to add to it in the future, the fact it pays in cryptocurrency and you can build it up is a bonus for me as I have never looked at crypto in trading terms, all my investments have been for long term, this gives me an entry into crypto at relatively low cost without having to really buy and sell.

Intent as the HNT grows in size is to look at pulling out in order to buy more or to maybe get original investment back and then continue to add the business, as always with these things I am only investing what I can afford to lose, but the whole package interests me and I can learn about the sensors which is part of what I work on to an extent. So I don't view it as crypto investing as most here are discussing but more engaging, having fun and hopefully making some money out of it.

I will let you know how it goes but the equipment wont be here for awhile yet, it's one of those that sounds good, maybe to good, so am wary but looking forward to engaging and developing beyond look at prices/fundamentals and trading.
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KateR
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by KateR » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:08 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:21 pm
Hi aggi, sorry, I fear you misunderstand my point. Vincent Van Gogh, Claude Monet, William Turner and many other artists had wonderful skills and it is possessing works of art produced by them that gives the originals their values.

I place bitcoin in the same category of fantasy as the emperor's new clothes. Some day a young child will come along and say those fateful words "but he's naked."
I think you're missing a lot of what cryptocurrency is, how its used and why it's valuable or not. When I look at some of the details behind the changes and the layout and schematics of some, I think it's a work of art, clearly not in the same sphere of those you mention, but for instance I have some electrical schematics framed from the 60's/70's hanging on my wall that show the electrical layout of how Burnley town center was developed. Clearly not CAD, hand drawn by a cartographic draftsperson, probably of no value to anyone else but it is to me, it's like some of the old maps, I am after an original map of early Texas, which will go on my wall for instance.

Value is only in the eye of the beholder but the fact that millions of not billions of FIAT is traded daily to cryptocurrency should tell you something, it has nothing to do with scarcity clearly.
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by FCBurnley » Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:22 pm

Fundamentals are the key issue to value. Look at ripple.com and read what they are doing in relation to cross border payments. Look how many banks they currently work with. Their coin is XRP which has already been tried and tested for many years. IMO you need look no further. FYI I have had a large investment since 2017. Good luck if you are investing but please don’t think all crypto are good. There is a lot of **** out there
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aggi
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by aggi » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:17 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:21 pm
Hi aggi, sorry, I fear you misunderstand my point. Vincent Van Gogh, Claude Monet, William Turner and many other artists had wonderful skills and it is possessing works of art produced by them that gives the originals their values. I have collected a few limited edition numbered prints of a well known artist - not "big league" I'm not a wealthy person. Maybe if I had more money I'd have bought the originals, but they cost 10, 20 and more times the price of the limited edition numbered prints. I know the prints I've bought have appreciated a little and may do some more, though that's not why I bought them. I bought them because I can hang them on the wall and enjoy looking at them. I believe the "limited edition" runs were something like 500 - but, then, as the art work has become more popular, more "limited edition" prints have been released. They are distinguished by the "2014 series," the "2016 series" and so on. Alongside that, there are "new" series produced from other originals.

Thus, we have the value of the original art works, then we have the "limited edition" prints - or "exact copy" to follow your phrase. I contend it is the "underlying physical item that gives it the value" - the original is worth many times the "copy." A painting produced by the "hand" of a master artist - recognising that works produced by "the school of...." where the "master" has also used "assistants" - has value because it has the provenance of that "master." (Note: in using the term "master" I am not excluding the great woman artists, Rose Wylie being a contemporary example).

Bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies do not have and can never have that aesthetic quality to be looked at, the quality and the beauty produced by a "master" artist to be appreciated. We can also say the same for a musical performance and "live" is so much more than the recording, whether the audio is supported by a visual recording of the "live event" or is a "studio production."

There can never be a "Satoshi original" bitcoin. The guy had a clever idea to create something that could be limited to 21 million. It's (kind of) a clever idea to call it a "cryptocurrency" and directly suggest that it is an alternative means of exchange that can substitute for "fiat currencies." But, there's nothing to stop other people inventing their copy, "bitcoin 2" "bitcoin 3" - or we can give them other names to distinguish them - and immediately bust the idea of value through scarcity.

I place bitcoin in the same category of fantasy as the emperor's new clothes. Some day a young child will come along and say those fateful words "but he's naked."
I'm not disagreeing that art has some intrinsic value. However, it's clearly the scarcity element that really drives the value.

It's very clear that this is the case. For instance artwork discovered to be fake suffers a giant depreciation on value even though it is exactly the same physical item that previously held a high value. Similarly, signed prints carry a much higher price tag than unsigned, even though they are effectively the same item. First editions of books are the same. I've already mentioned gold and diamonds.

These are all value constructs. There's no reason why it should be different because it's digital. You could print it out if you wanted I guess.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:34 am

KateR wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:08 pm
I think you're missing a lot of what cryptocurrency is, how its used and why it's valuable or not. When I look at some of the details behind the changes and the layout and schematics of some, I think it's a work of art, clearly not in the same sphere of those you mention, but for instance I have some electrical schematics framed from the 60's/70's hanging on my wall that show the electrical layout of how Burnley town center was developed. Clearly not CAD, hand drawn by a cartographic draftsperson, probably of no value to anyone else but it is to me, it's like some of the old maps, I am after an original map of early Texas, which will go on my wall for instance.

Value is only in the eye of the beholder but the fact that millions of not billions of FIAT is traded daily to cryptocurrency should tell you something, it has nothing to do with scarcity clearly.
Hi Kate, I love the idea of Burnley's "wiring diagram" - do they show when the floodlights were installed and upgraded?

Re "value" - I used to work in the sector that would price commodities. These firms would always make the argument that value is not determined by a single "eye of the beholder" but is the point where willing buyers and willing sellers will meet. "Fair value" as defined by the accounting boards - and recognised by the regulators - also support this view. I agree with you, however, that there will always be buyers or sellers who would be prepared to buy for more (or sell for less) than the value the market sets for any item.

How many millions/billions of FIAT is traded/exchanged daily to cryptos? Are reliable and accurate stats available on the flows into (and out of) bitcoin, for example? Is Musk/Tesla supposed to have spent $1.5bn buying bitcoin? If there are only 21 million max possible bitcoin I expect there is a figure for how many have already been mined. I've seen estimates for how many are "lost" (including the guy sent his hard drive to the dump). Does blockchain give us accurate figures for how many are traded each day? Are there figures for who the big holders are? Does Tesla's $1.5bn make Musk a "big holder" or relatively minor player?

I'm puzzled by your last statement: "has nothing to do with scarcity clearly." I get the impression most "believers" argue that bitcoin's value comes from scarcity.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by bfcmatt » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:26 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:06 am
Ksm is the one with the most room to move due to the supply and requirements from it so other tokens can apply for a parachain slot on it.
I wouldn't be shocked to see ksm at £800+ especially as there parachain auctions start soon.
Then who knows on price, most will be locked up (6-24 months) which will push the price up.

Dot
There auction slots will begin later in the year but again will push the price up.
Personally I'm looking at £60+ then again holding that price and moving from there.

Then you have the new tokens running off either ksm/dot ecosystems.
The next one I'm going all in on is KILT this has yet to be released for general sale. But will gain a ksm parachain slot.
When is Kilt expected to go on sale?

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by KateR » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:31 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:34 am
Hi Kate, I love the idea of Burnley's "wiring diagram" - do they show when the floodlights were installed and upgraded?
How many millions/billions of FIAT is traded/exchanged daily to cryptos? Are reliable and accurate stats available on the flows into (and out of) bitcoin, for example? Is Musk/Tesla supposed to have spent $1.5bn buying bitcoin? If there are only 21 million max possible bitcoin I expect there is a figure for how many have already been mined. I've seen estimates for how many are "lost" (including the guy sent his hard drive to the dump). Does blockchain give us accurate figures for how many are traded each day? Are there figures for who the big holders are? Does Tesla's $1.5bn make Musk a "big holder" or relatively minor player?

I'm puzzled by your last statement: "has nothing to do with scarcity clearly." I get the impression most "believers" argue that bitcoin's value comes from scarcity.
Paul,
Bitcoin is just one of many cryptocurrencies, it's like deciding to buy $ or Yen or Euros and play the money markets, for example I am going in to HNT, which is Helium's cryptocurrency because I like the fundamentals behind it. It is no different from when I switched out of some US stocks and bought into UK recovery funds because I believe the UK will start to improve in certain sectors and I have picked various segments for recovery. No guarantee but same principal in my mind.

I have no idea regarding Musk but obviously he and others like him can be big holders of any cryptocurrency, there has to be a reason they do but if the little people exit then the big guys will have issues because they don't have anyone to trade with, as I keep saying Bitcoin is one of many and more are entering the field every year. If your going to trade the old maxim is buy low sell high, how high can Bitcoin go, many off the smaller ones have far more room to grow, don't fixate on Bitcoin would be my thought.

Scarcity is when you talk about a painter/sculpture of rock star, but all are copied and 99+% of the population couldn't tell the difference from a really good forgery and actually have no idea why a VVG is worth what it is, they know the name and that there has only been one VVG. Therefore, it's not the aesthetics of the painting the majority of people like, it's the name and value, lot's of people like prints and limited editions to, so they do like the aesthetics. Bitcoin is the one everyone knows and now there is an ever growing list of other cryptocurrencies out there to chose from, just like other painters, some will be good and some will be bad but I don't think people are buying them for the scarcity of the item. Just IMO of course and you can put in a thimble what I know about cryptocurrencies and how they work. Yet plenty on here have been talking about buying/selling what I have never heard of and they are better placed than me, yet when I mentioned HNT/Helium they had never heard of them
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by KateR » Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:40 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:34 am
Hi Kate, I love the idea of Burnley's "wiring diagram" - do they show when the floodlights were installed and upgraded?

How many millions/billions of FIAT is traded/exchanged daily to cryptos? Are reliable and accurate stats available on the flows into (and out of) bitcoin,
Paul,
The drawings/schematics don't show BFC, more the town center.

Of coure the trading of cryptocurrency is a fraction of that of FIAT but ever year the fraction get's bigger, it's like cards versus cash, over time electronic money became bigger than people pulling cash, hence why so many banks closed doors. Some people think crypto will become dominant, but am sure not for a long time, but it's growing year by year.
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aggi
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by aggi » Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:00 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:34 am
...

How many millions/billions of FIAT is traded/exchanged daily to cryptos? Are reliable and accurate stats available on the flows into (and out of) bitcoin, for example? Is Musk/Tesla supposed to have spent $1.5bn buying bitcoin? If there are only 21 million max possible bitcoin I expect there is a figure for how many have already been mined. I've seen estimates for how many are "lost" (including the guy sent his hard drive to the dump). Does blockchain give us accurate figures for how many are traded each day? Are there figures for who the big holders are? Does Tesla's $1.5bn make Musk a "big holder" or relatively minor player?

...
Due to the nature of how bitcoin works there is a huge degree of openness. All transactions and mining are recorded and publicly available. There are no options not to do this, that's the whole basis of the system.

On the other hand there's no register of who owns the holdings or what the other side of the transaction was so you do have a lack of disclosure there, but the fact that a transaction is permanently recorded makes it much more open than most currencies.

Lots of info here https://www.blockchain.com/explorer?view=btc and plenty of other sites.
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Paul Waine » Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:27 pm

aggi wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:00 pm
Due to the nature of how bitcoin works there is a huge degree of openness. All transactions and mining are recorded and publicly available. There are no options not to do this, that's the whole basis of the system.

On the other hand there's no register of who owns the holdings or what the other side of the transaction was so you do have a lack of disclosure there, but the fact that a transaction is permanently recorded makes it much more open than most currencies.

Lots of info here https://www.blockchain.com/explorer?view=btc and plenty of other sites.
Thanks for that little insight into bitcoin data.

So, am I right in thinking that a "transaction" is simply an anonymous piece of data, a transaction id and number of bitcoin in that transaction, but nothing about who was the deliverer of the bitcoin and who was the receiver of the bitcoin? Is there any more to it than that?

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by aggi » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:04 pm

Paul Waine wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 6:27 pm
Thanks for that little insight into bitcoin data.

So, am I right in thinking that a "transaction" is simply an anonymous piece of data, a transaction id and number of bitcoin in that transaction, but nothing about who was the deliverer of the bitcoin and who was the receiver of the bitcoin? Is there any more to it than that?
The sender and receiver are identified insofar as you can see which wallet they went in and out of. There's no public info about who owns wallets.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Steddyman » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:36 pm

dsr wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:16 am
I'd be very surprised if they are still minting (mining?) Bitcoin in 2040. The amount of electricity it uses now is phenomenal, and it increases exponentially. (To use a fashionable word.)

(If your money in the bank is dropping by 7% in real terms, then I suggest you find a bank with lower charges, or else move to a lower inflation area.)
That's not right either. The amount of computing power needed to create a bitcoin does not increase all the time. The difficulty is based on the total computing power of the network. If miners stop mining by removing their computers from the network, then the difficulty goes down. So it can never be higher than the computing power available to it and is already leveling off because constant increase is not feasible. It also goes up and down with the interest in Bitcoin.

Your money is dropping by 7%, because more fictional money is being minted by the banks every year, just by increasing the amount of money in their ledgers. The UK and the US are now massively increasing the money supply to pay for the financial crisis caused by covid. This is called Quantitive Easing and also happened in 2009 in the last financial crisis. This new money is not backed by gold, and if the stock of money increases 7% in a year, then the items you buy need to go up in cost. This is why printing this money will cause an increase in interest rates in the next few years (inflation).

I've worked for a bank for 25 years, so I know what I am talking about.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Steddyman » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:42 pm

willsclarets wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:07 am
I didn't mean to say it's like a stock, more that there is a whiff of opportunism in the air across markets that is pushing prices up. Retail investor numbers have boomed, buying meme stocks, blue chips, crypto etc in a game of speculation, not investment. If you say bitcoin or any crypto is bullet proof, then I'm afraid I don't believe you. Institutional investment means they can also help dump the price for a start if they think it's overvalued. Crypto may keep rising, but there's something going on in the markets that feels very bubble-like.
The movement in this last cycle has moved very much from the retail investor to the institutional investor. There was a battle only this week by institution investors trying to push the price down by short selling on futures contracts. They had taken the options at $42k, then needed to borrow the options to then pay them back at $42k, profiting on the different. However, they failed and only managed to push it back to $50k before they had to then liquidate their positions thereby pushing the price back up again. So they do have quite a bit of control, but not enough. They are trying to drive the prices down in the short term to buy more, but are failing as the demand is too high.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Steddyman » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:44 pm

I'm bullish on the following:
- Polkadot (DOT)
- Ethernity (ERN)
- Kusama (KSM(
- Filecoin (FIL)
- Enjin (ENJ)

I've more than doubled my return in all the above in the last month.
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Steddyman » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:47 pm

aggi wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:04 pm
The sender and receiver are identified insofar as you can see which wallet they went in and out of. There's no public info about who owns wallets.
Not quite true. It is an anonymous address, but all crytpo exchanges that 90% of people use to buy crypto, are required to operate KYC procedures (Know Your Customer). Therefore if you put money into the system using an exchange, then send it to a wallet address, they are least know it was you that put it in. Also, the blockchain is public, so it is an audit log of every transaction that everyone can see (including governments). There are privacy coins that abstract this, but Bitcoin is not a privacy coin.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by dsr » Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:08 pm

Steddyman wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:36 pm
That's not right either. The amount of computing power needed to create a bitcoin does not increase all the time. The difficulty is based on the total computing power of the network. If miners stop mining by removing their computers from the network, then the difficulty goes down. So it can never be higher than the computing power available to it and is already leveling off because constant increase is not feasible. It also goes up and down with the interest in Bitcoin.

Your money is dropping by 7%, because more fictional money is being minted by the banks every year, just by increasing the amount of money in their ledgers. The UK and the US are now massively increasing the money supply to pay for the financial crisis caused by covid. This is called Quantitive Easing and also happened in 2009 in the last financial crisis. This new money is not backed by gold, and if the stock of money increases 7% in a year, then the items you buy need to go up in cost. This is why printing this money will cause an increase in interest rates in the next few years (inflation).

I've worked for a bank for 25 years, so I know what I am talking about.
If the price of Bitcoin plummets, then miners will leave the network and electricity usage will fall, but while it is still rising, then so is the electricity usage.

As for your banking explanation of what money is worth in real terms, then obviously wsing entirely different definitions of what "in real terms" means. I was using the more general one where the value of money from one year to the next is compared with what you would need to buy the same amount of goods - ie. the rate of inflation. It's a much more useful version of "real terms" than your high=flying money supply one.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Barry_Chuckle » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:48 am

Apologies if this seems a silly question, but is this easy to put money into via an app, and more importantly, is it easy to withdraw your money back out, also do these apps charge for processing a withdrawal?

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by bfcmatt » Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:56 am

Barry_Chuckle wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:48 am
Apologies if this seems a silly question, but is this easy to put money into via an app, and more importantly, is it easy to withdraw your money back out, also do these apps charge for processing a withdrawal?
it is very easy to buy using an app, they do have fee's but some of them are only pennies, if you are keeping hold for a long time you are best to have a wallet of some sort to store them in, i use exodus which is also an app, fee's can be highrt to transfer to a wallet

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Barry_Chuckle » Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:03 am

Hi Matt, thanks for the reply.
If i start to invest in this, as a short (ish) trader as i currently do with the stock market, are withdrawls reasonably instant?

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by bfcmatt » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:21 am

Barry_Chuckle wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:03 am
Hi Matt, thanks for the reply.
If i start to invest in this, as a short (ish) trader as i currently do with the stock market, are withdrawls reasonably instant?
So, if you traded on say coinbase pro and bought the crypyo of your choice, when you want to sell you set your sell price or accept market, if you accept market it will sell almost immediately, then when you withdraw to your bank that is pretty much immediate.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by willsclarets » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:26 am

Steddyman wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:42 pm
The movement in this last cycle has moved very much from the retail investor to the institutional investor. There was a battle only this week by institution investors trying to push the price down by short selling on futures contracts. They had taken the options at $42k, then needed to borrow the options to then pay them back at $42k, profiting on the different. However, they failed and only managed to push it back to $50k before they had to then liquidate their positions thereby pushing the price back up again. So they do have quite a bit of control, but not enough. They are trying to drive the prices down in the short term to buy more, but are failing as the demand is too high.
There's plenty of reasons to think a speculative bubble is forming. Nothing has changed fundamentally to justify such hikes. People are gambling to make money, same as gamestop post the initial short squeeze, which now is essentially a pyramid scheme pushing the price up and down. There's been a 30% increase in retail investors over the past 18 months, why? It's reminiscent of Germanys period prior to their hyperinflation disaster.

"speculation alone, while adding nothing to Germanys wealth, became one of its largest activities. The fever to join in turning a quick mark infected nearly all classes"

Incidentally, another time in history when the government had injected the economy with a load of liquidity. We haven't paid for covid yet, and on the whole people currently have spare income they're not spending. Again, I am aware that crypto is not typical stock, but it isn't immune from being overbought. If institutional investors are short selling, it could be to push the price to buy. But it also could be that they think the price is not justified.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by claret2018 » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:02 pm

I made thousands last month by going to work.

On a serious point I see crypto currency as something to have a flutter with, like a bet. I wouldn’t be putting my life savings into it.
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by aggi » Sun Mar 28, 2021 1:26 pm

willsclarets wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:26 am
There's plenty of reasons to think a speculative bubble is forming. Nothing has changed fundamentally to justify such hikes. People are gambling to make money, same as gamestop post the initial short squeeze, which now is essentially a pyramid scheme pushing the price up and down. There's been a 30% increase in retail investors over the past 18 months, why? It's reminiscent of Germanys period prior to their hyperinflation disaster.

"speculation alone, while adding nothing to Germanys wealth, became one of its largest activities. The fever to join in turning a quick mark infected nearly all classes"

Incidentally, another time in history when the government had injected the economy with a load of liquidity. We haven't paid for covid yet, and on the whole people currently have spare income they're not spending. Again, I am aware that crypto is not typical stock, but it isn't immune from being overbought. If institutional investors are short selling, it could be to push the price to buy. But it also could be that they think the price is not justified.
I don't think this just applies to crypto at the moment. There's a lot of bored people with spare cash looking for a bit of excitement.

GameStop is the obvious example and also what appears to be huge over-valuations of companies like Tesla.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by cockneyclaret » Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:38 pm

bfcmatt wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 4:26 pm
When is Kilt expected to go on sale?
Haven't been given a date yet. Keep an eye on twitter!! And have your funds ready 😉

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by tim_noone » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:50 pm

cockneyclaret wrote:
Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:38 pm
Haven't been given a date yet. Keep an eye on twitter!! And have your funds ready 😉
I've just had an Email "china coin" Cryptocurrency. Invest. :D

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by FCBurnley » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:16 pm

XRP currently around 90 cents. Up approx 45% today and 100% since this thread began Not going to say I told you so But I told you so !!! Hope you bought as heavily as you could afford

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by FCBurnley » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:20 pm

Will see some profit taking and a correction possibly into the seventies but expect to see $1.50 in the near future. Do your research before you buy

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by tarkys_ears » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:16 pm

Ooo I've just made a fiver on cardano - can go buy a big Mac and a small coke for lunch now!

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:31 pm

FCBurnley wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:20 pm
Will see some profit taking and a correction possibly into the seventies but expect to see $1.50 in the near future. Do your research before you buy
I got on when you posted at 0.41, so currently seeing some very nice returns. Also worth noting that I did the same with KateR’s recommendation, I got on at £4.56 and it’s currently over £13
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:00 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:31 pm
I got on when you posted at 0.41, so currently seeing some very nice returns. Also worth noting that I did the same with KateR’s recommendation, I got on at £4.56 and it’s currently over £13
Just checked HNT is now above £14, so that one really is flying now.

Thanks for recommending It Kate.

It’s a useful page for people that are interested in sharing ideas on crypto.

Obviously not all will work out but still useful.
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by FCBurnley » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:30 pm

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:31 pm
I got on when you posted at 0.41, so currently seeing some very nice returns. Also worth noting that I did the same with KateR’s recommendation, I got on at £4.56 and it’s currently over £13
Strongly suggest you keep your XRP for at least 1-2 years then see where you stand. Think you will be very pleased and well done to KateR

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:36 am

FCBurnley wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:30 pm
Strongly suggest you keep your XRP for at least 1-2 years then see where you stand. Think you will be very pleased and well done to KateR
Yes to be honest I am thinking of holding most of mine long term, or until it looks like there is a turn in the market.

Great shout on Xrp though, I was a little hesitant given what I was reading about Xrp but it looks to have come through

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Super Teds » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:09 am

Loving the advice as I am a complete novice on this thread. Simple question...is it worth having a 'wallet' for crypto? If so, any recommendations?

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:22 am

Super Teds wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:09 am
Loving the advice as I am a complete novice on this thread. Simple question...is it worth having a 'wallet' for crypto? If so, any recommendations?
I am fairly new myself, takes a little while to get your head around it but really worthwhile learning.

I use trustwallet it’s quite user friendly
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by aggi » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:02 am

Super Teds wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:09 am
Loving the advice as I am a complete novice on this thread. Simple question...is it worth having a 'wallet' for crypto? If so, any recommendations?
Yes. Despite what they may say, anything on an exchange is at risk. Over the years there have been too many examples of "secure" exchanges being compromised and money lost.

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by FCBurnley » Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:15 pm

Bought LTC this morning at $216. Think it will do very well over next year or so

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by bfcmatt » Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:08 am

Super Teds wrote:
Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:09 am
Loving the advice as I am a complete novice on this thread. Simple question...is it worth having a 'wallet' for crypto? If so, any recommendations?
Absolutely worth having a wallet but be mindful of gas fees for some crypto to transfer them. I use Exodus wallet

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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by Hipper » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:34 am


NRC
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Re: Cryptocurrency

Post by NRC » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:55 am

What if Robux became a crypto? The children would inherit the earth

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