Ezri Konsa set for an England call-up. It looks like Tarks could now be further down the pecking order.

Southgate makes another populist selection.
Tarks is better off out of it this season. He'll get a place once he moves.

Looking at the stats and Tarks comes out on top, but I haven't watched Konsa play so I don't know if he's more attractive on the eye style wise.

Konsa should be in, in place of Mings

Villa have played 2 less games and conceded 9 less goals than us, not surprised a young 22-23 year old PL starting central defender (in one of the better teams) is tipped for an England spot.

I may be wrong but I think Tarks has dropped from fevered admiration to worth a punt at the end of his contract. Tarks is first and foremost a stopper, and very good at it in partnership with our defence. I think pace might be a problem for him at that level. I would not blame him for moving on a perusing his international career, domestic honours and bigger pay packet, but I think it will be a BIG risk too, as football becomes more about lightening raids and without the credit he’s built up with us, he may struggle. The hope that he will do a Keane, MaGuire or even Stones (who all had to learn at their new clubs) but it is far guaranteed as bigger clubs/fans get increasingly less patient. In fact if it were me right now I’d be very interested in what Burnley were offering as an unsettled period of change is underway.

He is brilliant for us.

Is he better than

Maguire
Keane
Stones
Gomez
Mings

If he is better than some of them its by a fine margin.

i thought Tomori looked classy when he came with Chelsea but seems to have lost his way.

At this moment you could argue that Dawson is performing as well as any English player.

I dont follow that he gets in the England team if he moves to Leicester or West Ham.

I think Tarks needs to seriously consider playing for Poland if he wants to fulfill his international aspirations.

I think he can still play for them, having only made friendly appearances for England, can't he?

steve1264b wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:22 pm

He is brilliant for us.

Is he better than

Maguire
Keane
Stones
Gomez
Mings

If he is better than some of them its by a fine margin.

i thought Tomori looked classy when he came with Chelsea but seems to have lost his way.

At this moment you could argue that Dawson is performing as well as any English player.

I dont follow that he gets in the England team if he moves to Leicester or West Ham.

Tomori is doing really well at AC Milan - they cannot believe that they have been able to loan him - that is from Maldini and Baresi

Tarkowski played in 26 matches and we have conceded 31 goals in those games. 1.192 goals per game including 7 games against the 5 clubs who have scored most goals.
Konsa (in one of the better teams) played in 24 matches and conceded 27 goals. 1.125 goals per game including 4 games against the 5 clubs who have scored most goals.

Make of that what you will, however, one is a World Cup winner and the other one plays for Burnley!

Is he better than

Maguire - Yes in every dept. Except goal scoring
Keane - there was an improvement when he replaced him
Stones - Tarka is a far better defender
Gomez - Long is a better defender
Mings - Long is a better defender

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:43 pm

Is he better than

Maguire - Yes in every dept. Except goal scoring
Keane - there was an improvement when he replaced him
Stones - Tarka is a far better defender
Gomez - Long is a better defender
Mings - Long is a better defender

Don't talk rubbish. If Tarkowski was so good do you not think all the top clubs would be in for him? Especially with him going cheap this summer.
And claiming Kevin Long is better than Gomez and Mings is up there with the daftest things I've ever read on here, unless it's tongue in cheek?

He’s better than Maguire and Mings for me.

Some of Maguire’s defending had been absolutely comical this season, and Mings is just too error prone.

GodIsADeeJay81 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:31 pm

Looking at the stats and Tarks comes out on top, but I haven't watched Konsa play so I don't know if he's more attractive on the eye style wise.

You mean he has better hair cut lol

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:43 pm

Is he better than

Maguire - Yes in every dept. Except goal scoring
Keane - there was an improvement when he replaced him
Stones - Tarka is a far better defender
Gomez - Long is a better defender
Mings - Long is a better defender

aye, we have better players than Ronaldo in the u23 team too. I think people seem to completely miss how easy playing central defender for Burnley is compared to playing for other sides. At Burnley you're protected by 10 players, deep defensive line with 2 central midfielders doing all of the leg work and wide players tucking into the defensive shape to allow a longer tighter line. Defending with every man behind the ball is easy, defending 1v1 while the rest of your team mates are stood up the other end of the pitch is the difficult part.

Great cast

Two fantastic centre halves… My, oh my do Brentford churn out some talent

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:43 pm

Is he better than

Maguire - Yes in every dept. Except goal scoring
Keane - there was an improvement when he replaced him
Stones - Tarka is a far better defender
Gomez - Long is a better defender
Mings - Long is a better defender

He’s not better than Maguire, I’m not sure where some people get that from, he’s arguably better than Mings but that’s it for me

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 3:03 pm

Don't talk rubbish. If Tarkowski was so good do you not think all the top clubs would be in for him? Especially with him going cheap this summer.
And claiming Kevin Long is better than Gomez and Mings is up there with the daftest things I've ever read on here, unless it's tongue in cheek?

I stopped reading after the first few hadn’t seen Long is better if I’d seen that I’d have realised he’s on the wind up

Tarks is a fantastic player for Burnley and our system. It's the same with Mee. This idea that some fans believe Tarks is better than Maguire, Stones, etc is laughable. If Maguire and Stones played for us in the system that we play, we'd be calling them both the next Maldini and Baresi.

I really don’t see it with Maguire. He looks like a cart horse nearly every time I’ve seen him play.

I think it was Gary Neville that summed United’s two centre halves up best - Maguire needs a better partner than Lindelof and Lindelof needs a better partner than Maguire.

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:43 pm

Is he better than

Maguire - Yes in every dept. Except goal scoring
Keane - there was an improvement when he replaced him
Stones - Tarka is a far better defender
Gomez - Long is a better defender
Mings - Long is a better defender

I appreciate this post Salisbury claret. Tounge in cheek it may be but Tarkowski is part of a team which does not have its Aguero or Harry Kane. The reason we are continuing to play premiership football is the triangle of Mee Pope and Tarkowski. Generally ever present he is imho our best player. He defends all the time no time for forward adventures! That he has only played once for his country is not his fault but Southgate , who should have won the World Cup in 2018. That’s another thread I’m sure.

He is immense for us and our style of play , and for the guy who partners him. Will the purist English football fan be challenging his omission tonight-NOT AT ALL

Unfortunately for Tarky’s international aspirations I think he’s too similar to Maguire. Both physical players who are comfortable on the ball but aren’t particularly quick. In England’s system there’s only really room for one player like that and I can understand why Maguire is favoured.

I don't think that changing club will get him back into the England squad, he has been picked whilst at Burnley so that theory is clearly rubbish.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:27 pm

I don't think that changing club will get him back into the England squad, he has been picked whilst at Burnley so that theory is clearly rubbish.

Spot on

Maguire is a better all round player especially bringing the ball out of defense
Mings is a more natural left sided CB
Keane is looking good this season
And Konsa is playing very well at Villa

JT has been excellent for Burnley and he is still very good - just not that good to get back in the England side

Playing in a better league team will take some of the personal pressure off him and maybe give him more chance to show better close ball control and distribution

nyclaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:49 pm

Tarks is a fantastic player for Burnley and our system. It's the same with Mee. This idea that some fans believe Tarks is better than Maguire, Stones, etc is laughable. If Maguire and Stones played for us in the system that we play, we'd be calling them both the next Maldini and Baresi.

He is our best player been superb last two seasons. I think we will really struggle without him. He will be one of them where we don’t realise how good he was till he is gone

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:37 pm

He is our best player been superb last two seasons. I think we will really struggle without him. He will be one of them where we don’t realise how good he was till he is gone

He will be incredibly hard to replace, and if we could somehow persuade him to sign a new contract, that could be the best bit of business we'll do this summer, however I fear that is wishful thinking on my part I'm afraid, I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but it looks inevitable that JT will be on his way this summer, so we need to be prepared for that scenario if it arises.

A very useful Liverpool source on Twitter has said we are interested in Phillips amid a possible bid of £13-15 million.

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:43 pm

Is he better than

Maguire - Yes in every dept. Except goal scoring
Keane - there was an improvement when he replaced him
Stones - Tarka is a far better defender
Gomez - Long is a better defender
Mings - Long is a better defender

Grow up

burnmark wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:02 pm

A very useful Liverpool source on Twitter has said we are interested in Phillips amid a possible bid of £13-15 million.

If you're referring to Nathaniel Phillips, why would we bid for a player who's out of contract in 3 months, and TBH if he keeps delivering performances such as last night when he was MOTM, then it won't be long before Klopp offers him a new contract, if they haven't already done so.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:55 pm

He will be incredibly hard to replace, and if we could somehow persuade him to sign a new contract, that could be the best bit of business we'll do this summer, however I fear that is wishful thinking on my part I'm afraid, I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but it looks inevitable that JT will be on his way this summer, so we need to be prepared for that scenario if it arises.

I don’t think he’s going this summer. If you had the choice of waiting 9 months and likely having the pick of any club and a massive payday, you’d wait, wouldn’t you?

In that scenario, we get nowt. I’m fine with that tbh, I’d rather watch him for another year in his prime than get two thirds of a nominal fee in summer.

But the post below this says we’re interested in a Liverpool reserve for £13-£15m. In Jan it was £10m on Collins. If that’s what it’s going to cost to replace Tarks, why don’t we just give it him to sign a new contract and then recover it in a season or two when we sell him for his true value rather than the pathetic fee we’d get this summer?

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:14 pm

If you're referring to Nathaniel Phillips, why would we bid for a player who's out of contract in 3 months, and TBH if he keeps delivering performances such as last night when he was MOTM, then it won't be long before Klopp offers him a new contract, if they haven't already done so.

True, it’s more likely a loan if anything, the figure was believable though around that mark it’s only a excess of 5/7 you’ve got the 8m reportedly coming back from Norwich with BG & whatever JT goes for, the offers will be far lighter than last time around with Leicester & West Ham due to the situation.

Lots of contradicting stuff about the contract of Phillips when you have a look. Some say he’s out of contract in the summer, others say he has 3 years left.

claretcarrot93 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:37 pm

He is our best player been superb last two seasons. I think we will really struggle without him. He will be one of them where we don’t realise how good he was till he is gone

Absolutely.
We've built our defensive shape around him. He is an absolute rock in our system.
Perhaps if there was any sign of investment in the team, which I seriously doubt TBH, he could be persuaded to stay on a bit longer.

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:16 pm

I don’t think he’s going this summer. If you had the choice of waiting 9 months and likely having the pick of any club and a massive payday, you’d wait, wouldn’t you?

In that scenario, we get nowt. I’m fine with that tbh, I’d rather watch him for another year in his prime than get two thirds of a nominal fee in summer.

But the post below this says we’re interested in a Liverpool reserve for £13-£15m. In Jan it was £10m on Collins. If that’s what it’s going to cost to replace Tarks, why don’t we just give it him to sign a new contract and then recover it in a season or two when we sell him for his true value rather than the pathetic fee we’d get this summer?

Well! if we keep Tarks for a further year, and he then leaves for nothing so be it, but we're purely thinking as fans, and whether the powers that be will think along the same lines who knows, however one advantage in that scenario is it allows us to get his replacement in this summer, and therefore allows them a year to bed in, as Tarks himself did before we cashed in on Keane.

Ideally we'd persuade JT to pen a new deal, but I honestly can't see what's in it for him, when he and his agent knows he'll be able to walk away in 12 months, and no doubt get a hefty signing on fee due to him being a free agent.

He is past Southgate prime.

Better defender but not part of these 'set ups' that sees progression through the age groups. That's what Southgate loves. Being best is irrelevant. Southgate has failed to realise that there is young talent and mature, knowledgeable professionals.

He only likes the first group and is certain to fail.

the very idea that his chances are improved if he was at a so called big club make a mockery of southgates decision making in selections. either the player is good enough, or he's not. southgate in particular seems particularly inept at not being able to see the wood for the trees. thats why we will continue to lose out in tournaments. He is a good media man, and thats it.

SalisburyClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:43 pm

Is he better than

Maguire - Yes in every dept. Except goal scoring
Keane - there was an improvement when he replaced him
Stones - Tarka is a far better defender
Gomez - Long is a better defender
Mings - Long is a better defender

You need to watch more football. I mean better than John Stones??? Really???

NewClaret wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:16 pm

But the post below this says we’re interested in a Liverpool reserve for £13-£15m. In Jan it was £10m on Collins. If that’s what it’s going to cost to replace Tarks, why don’t we just give it him to sign a new contract and then recover it in a season or two when we sell him for his true value rather than the pathetic fee we’d get this summer?

If we pay Tarkowski an extra £10m in wages, then we also have ot pay Pope and Mee an extra £10m in wages, and people like Wood and McNeil and Westwood might want an extra slice of the pot as well. We aren't going to get all of that back when we sell 30+ year old Tarkowski in a season or two.

I’m still ****** off at him for that interview he gave with the Telegraph(?) around November time when the chips were down and he issued his ‘come and get me’ plea.

Keane has a much better chance of getting back in the England team than Tarkowski and it's nothing to do with who Tarkowski plays for.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:21 am

Keane has a much better chance of getting back in the England team than Tarkowski and it's nothing to do with who Tarkowski plays for.

You've changed your tune about Keane.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 6:21 am

Keane has a much better chance of getting back in the England team than Tarkowski and it's nothing to do with who Tarkowski plays for.

Is that the Keane who was crap and only looked good because of Mee ?

Tarks won't be considered as a England regular until he holds his own in a team that seriously challenges for Europe every season plus play out from the back as per the current international thinking and style.
If we had an international manager who wanted the keeper to dominate his box and save shots and defenders first and foremost to block,tackle,defend then get it away I think he would be a regular.

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:00 am

Is that the Keane who was crap and only looked good because of Mee ?

Keane almost certainly was never future England captain like some were claiming on here, he also was horrible at Everton until this season but he absolutely wasn't and isn't crap just incredibly overrated.

KRBFC wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:06 pm

Keane almost certainly was never future England captain like some were claiming on here, he also was horrible at Everton until this season but he absolutely wasn't and isn't crap just incredibly overrated.

from what iv seen of Keane im not convinced he’s quite good enough for PL level

People said the same nonsense about Keane, he went to Everton without 11 men behind the ball and was useless.

Keane is absolutely shite

Keane - No thanks, he's rubbish


Just a few comments all from the same dumb poster

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:23 pm

from what iv seen of Keane im not convinced he’s quite good enough for PL level

People said the same nonsense about Keane, he went to Everton without 11 men behind the ball and was useless.

Keane is absolutely shite

Keane - No thanks, he's rubbish


Just a few comments all from the same dumb poster

Let's not forget Keane had to put up with Koeman and Silva before he finally got a top level manager at Everton who knows what he's doing.
Something that's also been routinely ignored

Amusingly Silva is still unemployed, so he's either sat at home picking up a wage from Everton, or no one wants to give him another shot anytime soon.

dsr wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:19 am

If we pay Tarkowski an extra £10m in wages, then we also have ot pay Pope and Mee an extra £10m in wages, and people like Wood and McNeil and Westwood might want an extra slice of the pot as well. We aren't going to get all of that back when we sell 30+ year old Tarkowski in a season or two.

True, but I was more suggesting it were paid as a "signing on fee" vs. wages, since presumably that is what he would get for signing elsewhere.

Same issue applies though, I suppose - Mee and Pope and others might then all look to run their contracts down and do the same.

I think all things being equal, its probably best for all parties now that he stays his final season. He's still been an unbelievable signing.

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:51 pm

Well! if we keep Tarks for a further year, and he then leaves for nothing so be it, but we're purely thinking as fans, and whether the powers that be will think along the same lines who knows, however one advantage in that scenario is it allows us to get his replacement in this summer, and therefore allows them a year to bed in, as Tarks himself did before we cashed in on Keane.

Ideally we'd persuade JT to pen a new deal, but I honestly can't see what's in it for him, when he and his agent knows he'll be able to walk away in 12 months, and no doubt get a hefty signing on fee due to him being a free agent.

My point was more that we give whatever we would otherwise need to pay for a replacement to Tarks as a signing on fee. It does create a nasty precedent of players running down their contracts to get the same, I suppose, but I think most would understand taht Tarks is in an exceptional situation.

If we replace a £40-£50m defender with a £10-£15m one directly, I fear for us next season. We are just hovering over the brink with him in the team, and may of course still go down, so to me whether you're a fan or a bean counter, the option of Tarks staying his final year still feels the best one for all parties.