Anthony Fairclough has moved on...

[Rileybobs]

And what I am saying is that I agree with you but only if we stay static and it remains at just a few 100 people wanting something. But if you have a plan to change your base then you'd better have a plan to service it, I am confident in saying they intend to change the base and improve/expand. That needs to work and regardless of what you and I think you can see with your own eyes they are changing things, obviously it's not an overnight easy change, regarding AF, I don't know the man. New management always leads to some form of change and casualties, I wish him all the best but these are the shoots many of us have been waiting to see since NYD, let's see what they bring forward, just remember AP did say you'll be amazed

Fair do's. I suppose the point is that the demand for Burnley shirts in the US is always going to be tiny. We will never be a global brand like Man Utd, Chelsea etc. no matter how 'big' we dream.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Are you able to explain some of the ways?

Saying the club should do engagement and marketing is genuinely meaningless. Who should they engage, how and where should it be marketed? How can we engage people ahead of more established, bigger clubs with better teams and foreign players/owners who appeal to different markets? What marketing can we do that hasn't already been done better by others?

Making more commercial revenue sounds great but I really wish someone could explain to me how it can be done rather than repeating it as fact.

Engage with education bodies and schools. Sports clubs. Affiliation with other academies and professional clubs. Have a personal approach with kids who are would be fans or even players of tomorrow. Target social media. Even things such as fifa and other gaming platforms and communities which are a huge opportunity to market our ‘brand’. Create links with industry and business.

There are millions of people who see our games every week. They don’t care where Burnley is. Or whether we get 20,000 or 200,000 on. But they can buy into our story and what we are trying to do.

It’s nowhere near on a global scale but look at the connection in Helmond. Even smaller scale but like many I personally have connections with fans in various countries. Who are all clarets fans now. Why? Because they buy into the story. This sort of thing with the right focus and marketing could easily snowball. After all one man started that Helmond connection.

The club have had too short sighted a view of things outside brunshaw road for many years. That’s shared by too many fans.

I’m not saying it’s an overnight thing. And there’s no guarantees.

Having said that. You can guarantee it WONT be a success if you don’t try!

Will it need investment in time and money? Absolutely.

United had the foresight years ago to buy players who were marketable. Spurs are seeing that now with son. Helps he’s a bloody good player. But they have tonnes of exposure now in Asia. And despite what people may think they’ve hardly had years of being in the limelight. Relatively speaking they aren’t a big club. They’ve won little more than us. They’re from a rough and ready part of north London. With ‘proper’ fans.

As I say there’s a million and one ways to broaden our reach, our revenues and ultimately our reputation.

[Rileybobs]

Burnley (or other football clubs) aren't generally doing the selling and distribution of their shirts, it's the shirt manufacturer (or the company that is licensed to). For instance for Umbro it is this company https://www.gldgroup.com/

Clubs can buy for their club shop (normally at some form of best price so it's cheaper than what they'd sell to other retailers at) but the rest is done by the manufacturer. If you look at sports shops overseas (particularly Asia and the US) you'll see that shirts are often organised by manufacturer rather than country or similar.

Obviously if we told a manufacturer we wanted them to sell into the US or something and they didn't view it as profitable we'd need to incentivise them in some way. Equally, it wouldn't be possible to say that we didn't want them to sell to, for instance, Sports Direct in Burnley but they could sell to other shops in the UK, it's an all or nothing deal (although that may change at some point).

That's interesting, cheers.

[ClaretTony]

They have done well to keep it quiet:
- do we know if the club topped up the salaries to make sure everyone received full pay
- do we know when these furlough's first started
- do we know how many staff have been furloughed

As for numbers of staff the last figure I saw was 296 permanent staff on full and part time contracts (that was in a Daily Mail article in January I think) which is almost 50 more than the number in the last set of published accounts for 2018/19 and almost double the number in the 2017/18 accounts

I don't know the answers other than to say they were furloughing staff around the same time as they said they weren't going to use the furlough scheme. Some of those furloughed never returned and were made redundant.

[Elizabeth]

could you explain how you think ticketing at other premier league clubs is superior to the one we have here at this club. i have a season ticket on a direct debit scheme which is free to take part in , i know other clubs charge a fee, when i order away tickets online, i usually receive them the day after. we have the cheapest tickets in the premier league that have not risen in cost for seven seasons, we have free under 10 tickets.
could you briefly outline how we are so poor, maybe applying charges for all of the above, and also an away ticket membership fee which most other clubs adopt would be more agreeable to you?

I think there is a chance that there will be a review leading to the changes you raise , agreeable or not.

[cricketfieldclarets]

You have to compare or measure yourself against something otherwise it is just words.

If none of those clubs managed it then why can we ? Man City are still way behind the established worldwide clubs. It is just a dream to suddenly think we will be a worldwide club and there will be demand for our merchandise will people taking a huge interest.

If no other small clubs could win the league then why could Leicester?
If no other smaller nation could win the euros then why could greece, or portugal or denmark?
If no other smaller clubs could win the champions league then why did Porto?

Perhaps other clubs havent pursued it - like we havent. Perhaps they have and their execution hasnt been great.

[claretonthecoast1882]

If no other small clubs could win the league then why could Leicester?
If no other smaller nation could win the euros then why could greece, or portugal or denmark?
If no other smaller clubs could win the champions league then why did Porto?

Perhaps other clubs havent pursued it - like we havent. Perhaps they have and their execution hasnt been great.

Hardly like for like, a team that enters a competition and wins it compared to a small Northern town being a worldwide powerhouse. It was funny when we had someone telling us that someone wanted to buy the club to become a Northern powerhouse but worldwide is way above that.

I am all for a bit of dreaming but there has to a sense of reality.

[ClaretTony]

If no other small clubs could win the league then why could Leicester?

I don't think you could count Leicester as a small club with the amount the Srivaddhanaprabha have injected through King Power after taking over a club that had gone through administration without a penalty and landed itself a new free ground.

[claret wizard]

We haven't even made it on the Fanatics site

https://www.fanatics-intl.com/en/premie ... 1139193336

[MT03ALG]

Barcelona have worldwide football academys and have literally one or more in most states in the US at a cost of around 2k per kid and each one will have over a 1000 kids.

My nephew played for the academy in Austin and his mum would spend regularly 4 grand a season with them. He visited Spain and the Caribbean playing in soccer tournaments.

Accademys like the Barca franchise is where the money is. Maybe Pace could uses his other sporting connections to set up a Burnley franchise on the Barca model or something similar down those lines, who knows.

So why are Barcelona £1.1 BILLION in debt ?

[CharlieinNewMexico]

And do you think if we started stocking Burnley shirts in the US sports stores you’d see hundreds of Americans buying and wearing them? Can you imagine how much money we would lose by stocking our shirts in US sports stores?

A) you’d be surprised
B) I’m sure WE wouldn’t have to physically send them over. Presumably we’d just sign off on a distribution rights deal (just like the others) and take a %.

[Chester Perry]

We haven't even made it on the Fanatics site

https://www.fanatics-intl.com/en/premie ... 1139193336

That is because it requires a commercial agreement to do so - and it is questionable as to whether they would want us - for a club our size they would want to be the apparel supplier and probably the control of our retail operation to even make it worth their while - I do not think we have ever breached £2million in revenue for the retail at the club so it is really rather small fry.

[Chester Perry]

So why are Barcelona £1.1 BILLION in debt ?

It is actually much, much more than that if you look at the contracted wage liabilities though no one ever does. I am pleased that some people are starting to looking at transfer fee liabilities, a subject I have been harping on about for a while now and which forms part of that Barcelona debt figure that has become fixed in peoples minds.

[Awayfromburnley]

could you explain how you think ticketing at other premier league clubs is superior to the one we have here at this club. i have a season ticket on a direct debit scheme which is free to take part in , i know other clubs charge a fee, when i order away tickets online, i usually receive them the day after. we have the cheapest tickets in the premier league that have not risen in cost for seven seasons, we have free under 10 tickets.
could you briefly outline how we are so poor, maybe applying charges for all of the above, and also an away ticket membership fee which most other clubs adopt would be more agreeable to you?

The ticketing at other Premier league clubs is light years ahead of ours.

Have you tried buying a ticket online?
Have you used the points system?
Have you had the ability to spend your credits?

Absolutely the costs are second to none, can't and won't argue on that.

[Devils_Advocate]

A) you’d be surprised
B) I’m sure WE wouldn’t have to physically send them over. Presumably we’d just sign off on a distribution rights deal (just like the others) and take a %.

Is that a % of the operational loss any distribution company would make if they were stupid enough to try and stock or supply Burnley shirts across vast country's that have practically no interest in us and never will unless we get an owner who makes us into a future Man City

[Oshkoshclaret]

The on and off field activities of our club are absolute polar opposites. On the pitch, we are about to secure our 6th consecutive season in the Premier League and have a team that has won games at most of the major clubs in the country - Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal and Everton to name 4. Behind the scenes we had the same Commercial Director who, if he has been with the club 21 years, was around when we were a third tier side under Stan. Our website, ticketing, online shop, shirt sale policy and whole host of other activities are still that of a third tier club. He may well be a thoroughly nice bloke, and a fan of our club and all the other rhetoric we may need to hear. For me i would rather have a hungry, hardnosed CD who can move the off field side of the club more in line with the position we occupy on the field.

Agree with every word of that.

[aggi]

A) you’d be surprised
B) I’m sure WE wouldn’t have to physically send them over. Presumably we’d just sign off on a distribution rights deal (just like the others) and take a %.

I can't imagine many would be queueing up for that.

[Oshkoshclaret]

The analogy with the Green Bay Packers is not a particularly strong one (I'm from Burnley but lived in Wisconsin for 12 yrs). Their fan catchment area is at least an order of magnitude greater than ours and the salary cap in the NFL is a huge leveller.

But I do agree that they seem to have achieved Alan Pace's goal of being the second-favourite team for a lot of people, or perhaps more importantly the favourite team of many neutrals. My take is that they've achieved it less by positioning themselves as 'underdogs' but more by emphasising and leveraging their history. The sense that the Packers are authentic, rooted in good values, that they reflect a sense of collective nostalgia about the game. The way they've developed Lambeau Field and the whole aura of the Packers is very clever. That's where I would like to see BFC go, rather than this underdog thing which strikes me as a bit shallow. Nostalgia is one of the most powerful, yet underappreciated human emotions. Hooped socks all the way for me.

[TsarBomba]

I’ve got about 20 football shirts in my collection.

That doesn’t mean I support 20 clubs, I just like the shirts.

There is a HUGE demand for football shirts, not only in this country but abroad. I can’t remember what the Twitter handles are, but you only need to take a look at secret shirt.co and classic football shirts to see how much this is booming.

No-one is suggesting that we’re suddenly going to sell 100,00 shirts in the US, but if we’re going to rapidly increase our exposure, then we have to be prepared to facilitate the potential sales of shirts around the world to meet a new demand. What will be the point of increasing our exposure if we’re ultimately not going to sell merchandise on the back of it?

[DCWat]

That is because it requires a commercial agreement to do so - and it is questionable as to whether they would want us - for a club our size they would want to be the apparel supplier and probably the control of our retail operation to even make it worth their while - I do not think we have ever breached £2million in revenue for the retail at the club so it is really rather small fry.

Where do the likes of Palace, Southampton and Wolves sit within that, relatively are they not small fry too?

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Fair do's. I suppose the point is that the demand for Burnley shirts in the US is always going to be tiny. We will never be a global brand like Man Utd, Chelsea etc. no matter how 'big' we dream.

We are part of a Global brand though, the Premier league and we've failed to take advantage of that for years.

That global brand is something we get paid to be part of and it appears that we've done very little with all the free advertising we get for being part of said global brand...

Population of the USA is 330 million ish.

They love a good sports underdog story, they always have done.
We regularly throw up surprise results against the big teams, that will generate interest.

At this moment in time we have no idea how much we could generate in retail revenue from the USA, because we haven't tried.
We don't even need to have stores across the US, just tie up with a singular outlet, stick a link on our official website for customers based in the US to click on and sit back to see what happens.
We could do that across the world tbh, especially in places like the far East, have official suppliers for that region, with links from our site.

We are a recognised name in football, have been for a while now, we should be taking advantage of it.

[KRBFC]

Every small town club has had dreams of global domination or expanding fanbases while enjoying their time in the sun. Blackburn, Bolton, Watford, Huddersfield, Wigan, Swansea, Cardiff... They'll all have had grandiose plans about becoming a big player and exploiting the worldwide exposure.

Unfortunately, we're making up the numbers. In a few years, it'll be someone else. I'm fine with it personally. I would like us to upgrade our commercial operations, particularly online - both the store and ticketing could be slicker. But the idea that anyone watches the Premier League anywhere in the world because of <insert small club here> is just a dream. How many times have you watched Getafe v Eibar in LaLiga. Or bought a Elche shirt?

You're absolutely correct, Burnley fans care about Burnley FC, quite rightly nobody else gives a crap about us. The whole ''favorite underdog'' is naive nonsense imo, nobody outside of Burnley gives a toss how little money we have spent or how we are financially fighting above our station. Success isn't staying in the Premier League to people outside of the UK, success is winning trophies. If you want the Premier Leagues biggest underdog, why would they chose Burnley over Fulham? Leicester are a more glamorous underdog and probably the biggest ''underdog'' in the league.

[Quickenthetempo]

You're absolutely correct, Burnley fans care about Burnley FC, quite rightly nobody else gives a crap about us. The whole ''favorite underdog'' is naive nonsense imo, nobody outside of Burnley gives a toss how little money we have spent or how we are financially fighting above our station. Success isn't staying in the Premier League to people outside of the UK, success is winning trophies. If you want the Premier Leagues biggest underdog, why would they chose Burnley over Fulham? Leicester are a more glamorous underdog and probably the biggest ''underdog'' in the league.

Why did Sid the Liverpool fan choose Burnley if nobody gives a monkey's?
Why do I see all the Man Utd and Liverpool fans who used to mock me for being a Burnley fan, on the Turf nowadays with their kids?

We have a golden ticket with new owners who look like will try and make use of it.

If they can't then there was absolutely no reason for them to buy the club.

[Devils_Advocate]

Sustained marketing to break into a new market requires a lot of money and skill. If the owners can demonstrate and implement a business model where the returns outweigh the investment than happy days.

To be so simplistic as to say we should just go after a potentially untapped market and whatever sales we get is all positive/profit against where we stand today completely misses the reality of how much a skilled marketing team costs to run and deliver results.

Even if we are going to have an improved marketing team regardless you still have to consider the opportunity cost of this. If whatever time, effort and energy would be needed to get into the US market could deliver a better ROI if directed elsewhere then by choosing the former you are incurring an opportunity cost which a successful businessman would be unlikely to pursue

[cricketfieldclarets]

I don't think you could count Leicester as a small club with the amount the Srivaddhanaprabha have injected through King Power after taking over a club that had gone through administration without a penalty and landed itself a new free ground.

True. And I knew someone would bring this up.

But two points.

Firstly It’s not like no other club has had equal amounts pumped in. Money guarantees nothing.

Secondly. Fwiw Leicester’s title winning squad cost a relative pittance.

Almost all of them. Including some of the top performers like Vardy. Schmeichal. Morgan. Were all signed when they were in the championship.

Ironically it is the more expensive players that didn’t contribute much.

[cricketfieldclarets]

I’ve got about 20 football shirts in my collection.

That doesn’t mean I support 20 clubs, I just like the shirts.

There is a HUGE demand for football shirts, not only in this country but abroad. I can’t remember what the Twitter handles are, but you only need to take a look at secret shirt.co and classic football shirts to see how much this is booming.

No-one is suggesting that we’re suddenly going to sell 100,00 shirts in the US, but if we’re going to rapidly increase our exposure, then we have to be prepared to facilitate the potential sales of shirts around the world to meet a new demand. What will be the point of increasing our exposure if we’re ultimately not going to sell merchandise on the back of it?

Spot on. I’ve a collection of hundreds. Mostly random and smaller clubs.

Global market.

[cricketfieldclarets]

We are part of a Global brand though, the Premier league and we've failed to take advantage of that for years.

That global brand is something we get paid to be part of and it appears that we've done very little with all the free advertising we get for being part of said global brand...

Population of the USA is 330 million ish.

They love a good sports underdog story, they always have done.
We regularly throw up surprise results against the big teams, that will generate interest.

At this moment in time we have no idea how much we could generate in retail revenue from the USA, because we haven't tried.
We don't even need to have stores across the US, just tie up with a singular outlet, stick a link on our official website for customers based in the US to click on and sit back to see what happens.
We could do that across the world tbh, especially in places like the far East, have official suppliers for that region, with links from our site.

We are a recognised name in football, have been for a while now, we should be taking advantage of it.

Absolutely spot on.

As I said earlier. Make hay while the sun shines.

Unfortunately if we had the same outlook as the old guard and many of our fans, we would wait until it starts ******* down before the lightbulb moment.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Sustained marketing to break into a new market requires a lot of money and skill. If the owners can demonstrate and implement a business model where the returns outweigh the investment than happy days.

To be so simplistic as to say we should just go after a potentially untapped market and whatever sales we get is all positive/profit against where we stand today completely misses the reality of how much a skilled marketing team costs to run and deliver results.

Even if we are going to have an improved marketing team regardless you still have to consider the opportunity cost of this. If whatever time, effort and energy would be needed to get into the US market could deliver a better ROI if directed elsewhere then by choosing the former you are incurring an opportunity cost which a successful businessman would be unlikely to pursue

Don’t dispute that at all. There would need to be a clear strategy. And investment.

But one things for sure. Do nothing and we will definitely get nothing.

[Devils_Advocate]

Don’t dispute that at all. There would need to be a clear strategy. And investment.

But one things for sure. Do nothing and we will definitely get nothing.

As I said the new owners are in the best place to look at the business model and it we can benefit we'd be mad not to go for. If however the sums clearly dont add up we'd be equally as mad to waste our time and money chasing a wild goose

[daveisaclaret]

Without wanting to be offensive I think there's some real naivety on display from those positing ways the club can make money on this thread. Without being able to do something other clubs can't, we've got absolutely no chance of breaking into markets that other clubs haven't yet tapped into. I know being a Burnley fan is great but it's very, very narrow-minded to think it's special enough to compete on its own with the advantages other teams have in the eyes of newcomers to the sport (a market we are late too through no fault of our own) or established international fans of the Premier League who have had 6 years to start liking us and not started yet.

I feel it's very telling that almost all of tne people who think it's possible to make a big success of this seem to think that the endgame of the commercial strategy should be selling Burnley shirts abroad. It's pie in the sky stuff that makes Pace's favourite underdog stuff look modest.

It's all very well to say things can be improved, I'm sure most everyone agrees the club's operations off the field haven't all kept track with our rapid development on it. That doesn't mean that spending money trying to tap into markets which really just don't exist or aren't available to a small town club with a reputation for playing crap football is a guaranteed success. If that fails, it's money wasted that I'm rather convinced the manager would rather see a more direct use for.

[aggi]

We are part of a Global brand though, the Premier league and we've failed to take advantage of that for years.

That global brand is something we get paid to be part of and it appears that we've done very little with all the free advertising we get for being part of said global brand...

Population of the USA is 330 million ish.

They love a good sports underdog story, they always have done.
We regularly throw up surprise results against the big teams, that will generate interest.

At this moment in time we have no idea how much we could generate in retail revenue from the USA, because we haven't tried.
We don't even need to have stores across the US, just tie up with a singular outlet, stick a link on our official website for customers based in the US to click on and sit back to see what happens.
We could do that across the world tbh, especially in places like the far East, have official suppliers for that region, with links from our site.

We are a recognised name in football, have been for a while now, we should be taking advantage of it.

It sounds nice and easy but in reality all of those outlets would need a lot of stock for it to be worth it. They're not going to want to pay much for something so unproven so it would be either at a huge discount (below cost) or consignment (where you'd end up with dead stock).

And, in reality, is shifting from one webshop to another webshop really going to drive that many sales?

[cricketfieldclarets]

Without wanting to be offensive I think there's some real
I feel it's very telling that almost all of tne people who think it's possible to make a big success of this seem to think that the endgame of the commercial strategy should be selling Burnley shirts abroad. It's pie in the sky stuff that makes Pace's favourite underdog stuff look modest.

But most haven’t said that’s the only thing. It’s one thing.

Attracting future fans. Attracting potential players. Attracting would be investors. All a possibility. And almost all COULD pay for themselves and more.

Could.

Nobody has implied there are guarantees.

[KateR]

As I said the new owners are in the best place to look at the business model and it we can benefit we'd be mad not to go for. If however the sums clearly dont add up we'd be equally as mad to waste our time and money chasing a wild goose

don't you think they did there hypothetical sums and business model alongside a rigorous risk assessment plan before they actually decide to buy BFC? As we all know they were looking at other clubs before BFC and stated openly there plans work regardless and even more telling, stated it would also work in the championship.

[Devils_Advocate]

don't you think they did there hypothetical sums and business model alongside a rigorous risk assessment plan before they actually decide to buy BFC?

Yes

[KateR]

Without wanting to be offensive I think there's some real naivety on display from those positing ways the club can make money on this thread. Without being able to do something other clubs can't, we've got absolutely no chance of breaking into markets that other clubs haven't yet tapped into. I know being a Burnley fan is great but it's very, very narrow-minded to think it's special enough to compete on its own with the advantages other teams have in the eyes of newcomers to the sport (a market we are late too through no fault of our own) or established international fans of the Premier League who have had 6 years to start liking us and not started yet.

I feel it's very telling that almost all of tne people who think it's possible to make a big success of this seem to think that the endgame of the commercial strategy should be selling Burnley shirts abroad. It's pie in the sky stuff that makes Pace's favourite underdog stuff look modest.

It's all very well to say things can be improved, I'm sure most everyone agrees the club's operations off the field haven't all kept track with our rapid development on it. That doesn't mean that spending money trying to tap into markets which really just don't exist or aren't available to a small town club with a reputation for playing crap football is a guaranteed success. If that fails, it's money wasted that I'm rather convinced the manager would rather see a more direct use for.

usual line in the sand on here, I don't want to be offensive either but if people had listened to you lot, we would still be getting around in a horse and carriage. Thankfully some people had big ideas and they follow them, obviously more fail than are successful but if you don't try then you know the outcome for sure.

At the end of this discussions we will all still be BFC fans in years to come, they may have wasted money but it's there's to waste, let's at least give them a chance to demonstrate there collective impressive credentials rather than trying to point to why they can't do what they want to do. Especially given, I will hazard a guess, regarding something that you really have next to zero knowledge about.

[cricketfieldclarets]

usual line in the sand on here, I don't want to be offensive either but if people had listened to you lot, we would still be getting around in a horse and carriage. Thankfully some people had big ideas and they follow them, obviously more fail than are successful but if you don't try then you know the outcome for sure.

At the end of this discussions we will all still be BFC fans in years to come, they may have wasted money but it's there's to waste, let's at least give them a chance to demonstrate there collective impressive credentials rather than trying to point to why they can't do what they want to do. Especially given, I will hazard a guess, regarding something that you really have next to zero knowledge about.

Exactly.

Most didn’t believe we could get to the premier league. Never mind stay here. Europe? No chance.

We’ve constantly proved anything is possible on the field. So it’s even more possible off it

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It sounds nice and easy but in reality all of those outlets would need a lot of stock for it to be worth it. They're not going to want to pay much for something so unproven so it would be either at a huge discount (below cost) or consignment (where you'd end up with dead stock).

And, in reality, is shifting from one webshop to another webshop really going to drive that many sales?

Do we have the option to ship abroad from the current club website?
Last time I ordered a shirt I was told it would turn up anytime in the next 10-14 days...hardly a professional set up.

If we are going to try and attract more fans we need to make our retail products more easily accessible.

[daveisaclaret]

usual line in the sand on here, I don't want to be offensive either but if people had listened to you lot, we would still be getting around in a horse and carriage. Thankfully some people had big ideas and they follow them, obviously more fail than are successful but if you don't try then you know the outcome for sure.

At the end of this discussions we will all still be BFC fans in years to come, they may have wasted money but it's there's to waste, let's at least give them a chance to demonstrate there collective impressive credentials rather than trying to point to why they can't do what they want to do. Especially given, I will hazard a guess, regarding something that you really have next to zero knowledge about.

Not really sure what point you're trying to make there. I'm not saying it's not possible for us to be a commercial success abroad, I'm saying I don't think the other users of this messageboard have any sensible idea of how it could happen. It may well be that it's not fair to expect them to given it's a rather specialised field that none of us are presumably in, but I don't think that makes it unreasonable to be of the opinion that those on here who are posting about it are doing so out of blind faith.

I don't know what the new owners' plans are beyond the very limited (and yes in my opinion flawed) outline they've provided, so I can't know whether they'll work. It may be that they can do better than a horse and carriage, it's just that none of the ideas posted in this thread are as far as I can see them.

It all seems to stem from the idea that being a Burnley fan is great and therefore it'll be an easy sell to get others to do the same. I'm fairly sure I only think being a Burnley fan is great because I already am one and so I'm not sure the market for new ones extends very far outside of the ones we've been picking up anyway.

[Rileybobs]

usual line in the sand on here, I don't want to be offensive either but if people had listened to you lot, we would still be getting around in a horse and carriage. Thankfully some people had big ideas and they follow them, obviously more fail than are successful but if you don't try then you know the outcome for sure.

At the end of this discussions we will all still be BFC fans in years to come, they may have wasted money but it's there's to waste, let's at least give them a chance to demonstrate there collective impressive credentials rather than trying to point to why they can't do what they want to do. Especially given, I will hazard a guess, regarding something that you really have next to zero knowledge about.

I’m sorry but that just doesn’t make sense. There’s nothing to stop someone who’s pragmatic and realistic from being progressive. I could sell my house to fund a ludicrous business venture, let’s say the manufacturing of chocolate fireguards. When I inevitably fail miserably I wouldn’t take much comfort from the fact that I had big ideas and was brave (or stupid) enough to follow them.

I don’t see anybody rubbishing the owner’s potential plans to improve our commercial performance. Some people just think that there’s not a sizeable enough market to justify having our kit stocked in stores in the USA. That’s not small time thinking, it’s just realism.

[daveisaclaret]

Exactly.

Most didn’t believe we could get to the premier league. Never mind stay here. Europe? No chance.

We’ve constantly proved anything is possible on the field. So it’s even more possible off it

Why is it even more possible off the field?

There are certainly more teams who have overperformed relative to their stature in the Premier League than have overperformed relative to their stature as an international business.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Why is it even more possible off the field?

There are certainly more teams who have overperformed relative to their stature in the Premier League than have overperformed relative to their stature as an international business.

Because on the field. The ability to get a sustainable successful team and return on investment is harder and harder every year.

Player values increase. Wages increase. The competition continues to generate more commercial revenues. Domestically and abroad.

Luckily we continue to punch above our weight. Just like we can off the field.

There is a finite amount of players capable of playing in the premier league.

There’s a much more unlimited number of potential investment opportunities. Potential fans. Etc.

Again. Il reiterate there are no guarantees. Other than doing nothing will generate nothing.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make there. I'm not saying it's not possible for us to be a commercial success abroad, I'm saying I don't think the other users of this messageboard have any sensible idea of how it could happen. It may well be that it's not fair to expect them to given it's a rather specialised field that none of us are presumably in, but I don't think that makes it unreasonable to be of the opinion that those on here who are posting about it are doing so out of blind faith.

I don't know what the new owners' plans are beyond the very limited (and yes in my opinion flawed) outline they've provided, so I can't know whether they'll work. It may be that they can do better than a horse and carriage, it's just that none of the ideas posted in this thread are as far as I can see them.

It all seems to stem from the idea that being a Burnley fan is great and therefore it'll be an easy sell to get others to do the same. I'm fairly sure I only think being a Burnley fan is great because I already am one and so I'm not sure the market for new ones extends very far outside of the ones we've been picking up anyway.

It's not massively difficult.

Find the markets which attract the biggest numbers of viewers through the TV deals etc.
Then find potential business partners who specialise in sports products in those countries and go from there.

Land Rover place I worked had a range of specialist products for off road expeditions/upgrades etc and had authorised dealerships for its products in countries around the world, because there was an international market for their products.
Those companies then stocked a range of products to suit their specific markets.
If a customer wanted non stock items, those products were added to the next normal stock order to reduce shipping costs.

The principle is the same for football retail products.
Whoever the new commercial director is should be able to work out who other clubs are using to promote their retail products in other countries etc etc.

It isn't overly difficult to get ones head around, and clothing is far easier to ship than Land Rover upgrades

[KateR]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make there. I'm not saying it's not possible for us to be a commercial success abroad, I'm saying I don't think the other users of this messageboard have any sensible idea of how it could happen. It may well be that it's not fair to expect them to given it's a rather specialised field that none of us are presumably in, but I don't think that makes it unreasonable to be of the opinion that those on here who are posting about it are doing so out of blind faith.

I don't know what the new owners' plans are beyond the very limited (and yes in my opinion flawed) outline they've provided, so I can't know whether they'll work. It may be that they can do better than a horse and carriage, it's just that none of the ideas posted in this thread are as far as I can see them.

It all seems to stem from the idea that being a Burnley fan is great and therefore it'll be an easy sell to get others to do the same. I'm fairly sure I only think being a Burnley fan is great because I already am one and so I'm not sure the market for new ones extends very far outside of the ones we've been picking up anyway.

sorry but your the one deriding people and some thoughts, the main thought that has been put out there is that the US is a potential huge market, but it's not the only one. The other main theme has been in that people believe the performance commercially of the club has been poor and can be greatly improved, I never saw a marketing and product plan hypothesized by anyone. I think it was fairly clearly stated, you can't just stock shelves and expect masses to come and buy a product, therefor a product marketing plan is needed, I'm also confident none of us contributing here know what that remotely looks like.

Yes we've heard the underdog line trotted out and maybe that is the idea, I certainly hope not, I could throw a few things out but they would be random and therefore not worth discussing but for some to just poo poo things from the get go is just negativity and having a go.

Probably the easier question to you is, "do you think the new owners are going to do nothing, or will they try to improve off field commercialization"?

[Rileybobs]

It's not massively difficult.

Find the markets which attract the biggest numbers of viewers through the TV deals etc.
Then find potential business partners who specialise in sports products in those countries and go from there.

Land Rover place I worked had a range of specialist products for off road expeditions/upgrades etc and had authorised dealerships for its products in countries around the world, because there was an international market for their products.
Those companies then stocked a range of products to suit their specific markets.
If a customer wanted non stock items, those products were added to the next normal stock order to reduce shipping costs.

The principle is the same for football retail products.
Whoever the new commercial director is should be able to work out who other clubs are using to promote their retail products in other countries etc etc.

It isn't overly difficult to get ones head around, and clothing is far easier to ship than Land Rover upgrades

It’s fair to say that there’s a bigger global market for Land Rover products than Burnley FC products.

[daveisaclaret]

Because on the field. The ability to get a sustainable successful team and return on investment is harder and harder every year.

Player values increase. Wages increase. The competition continues to generate more commercial revenues. Domestically and abroad.

Luckily we continue to punch above our weight. Just like we can off the field.

There is a finite amount of players capable of playing in the premier league.

There’s a much more unlimited number of potential investment opportunities. Potential fans. Etc.

Again. Il reiterate there are no guarantees. Other than doing nothing will generate nothing.

Those are off the field factors. The on field is that for as long as we are not one of the three worst teams in the league, we will continue to compete at this level. With the manager in place, we're in a good position to do that and have proven we can continue to do so.

What's more, on the field there are guarantees. 17 teams survive in the Premier League each season and it's totally in our power to be one of them and reap the benefits. Barring real catastrophe off the field, that's sustainable.

Off the field as you rightly point out, there are no guarantees. It's not easier at all because the market may simply not be there and if it is we may not have access to it. On the field, we're in the process of fairly comfortably retaining our status for yet another season.

[cricketfieldclarets]

Another example. How difficult is it to get tickets at bigger games and bigger clubs. Not to mention a personalised experience.

Friends I know from Italy. Germany. Balkans and more have been several times and been treat like royalty at the turf. That positive experience and the story spreads.

Scale that up...

[Quickenthetempo]

Not really sure what point you're trying to make there. I'm not saying it's not possible for us to be a commercial success abroad, I'm saying I don't think the other users of this messageboard have any sensible idea of how it could happen. It may well be that it's not fair to expect them to given it's a rather specialised field that none of us are presumably in, but I don't think that makes it unreasonable to be of the opinion that those on here who are posting about it are doing so out of blind faith.

I don't know what the new owners' plans are beyond the very limited (and yes in my opinion flawed) outline they've provided, so I can't know whether they'll work. It may be that they can do better than a horse and carriage, it's just that none of the ideas posted in this thread are as far as I can see them.

It all seems to stem from the idea that being a Burnley fan is great and therefore it'll be an easy sell to get others to do the same. I'm fairly sure I only think being a Burnley fan is great because I already am one and so I'm not sure the market for new ones extends very far outside of the ones we've been picking up anyway.

None of us posters have a clue if it will be a success because we haven't a clue how it would work.

It's not 100% either way.

But we have some heavy weights in the business world with experience of American markets.

They might be able to crack it.

[GodIsADeeJay81]

It’s fair to say that there’s a bigger global market for Land Rover products than Burnley FC products.

The global football fan market has the potential to be far larger than any Land Rover market will ever be.

Interestingly I've just popped onto the clarets store and I've noticed it's been upgraded since I last looked prior to Xmas.

[KateR]

I’m sorry but that just doesn’t make sense. There’s nothing to stop someone who’s pragmatic and realistic from being progressive. I could sell my house to fund a ludicrous business venture, let’s say the manufacturing of chocolate fireguards. When I inevitably fail miserably I wouldn’t take much comfort from the fact that I had big ideas and was brave (or stupid) enough to follow them.

I don’t see anybody rubbishing the owner’s potential plans to improve our commercial performance. Some people just think that there’s not a sizeable enough market to justify having our kit stocked in stores in the USA. That’s not small time thinking, it’s just realism.

I am also sorry but all I hear you saying is it can't be done, you're nit picking on the US store and stock and it's been agreed with, if nothing else changes then you're right. Your house analogy is just not worth discussing,

I don't think you're being realistic, because you don't know the plan so how on earth can you be realistic about it? Yet I do see you as negative because you have no idea, like me, DJ81, CCF and Davies. However, is it your contention that regardless of what anyone does we can't sell enough in the US to make it worthwhile?

[cricketfieldclarets]

It’s fair to say that there’s a bigger global market for Land Rover products than Burnley FC products.

300,000 global sales of land rovers per year.

We sell more tickets than that per season. Never mind global vieiwing figures.