Are we allowed to discuss this ?

It's not a secret mate, we play 442.

Watched it last night, listening to the lads stories was truly frightening, what they went through at the hands of those evil predators is beyond belief.
Paul Stewart's account and what it lead to in particular was hard to watch and must make people and some of our supporters in particular me included see him in a different light and maybe explains why his performances didn't meet expectations.

I was one of many who made many negative comments about his time at Burnley. After watching that disturbing programme last night, I should take it all back

I watched 2 of the 3 episodes last night. It was heartbreaking hearing the survivors speak about the abuse they suffered. You could almost see them regress and become their teenage selves in front of your eyes.

I have such admiration for all the people who came forward. Ian Ackley and Dean Radford were amongst the earliest to put themselves on the line. That they continued to do so despite being repeatedly failed by the criminal justice system makes them nothing short of heroic.

There are a lot of people involved in football whose consciences should be keeping them awake at night.

XDS wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:12 am

Watched it last night, listening to the lads stories was truly frightening, what they went through at the hands of those evil predators is beyond belief.
Paul Stewart's account and what it lead to in particular was hard to watch and must make people and some of our supporters in particular me included see him in a different light and maybe explains why his performances didn't meet expectations.

Exactly that - I have always been scathing of his time at Burnley (and he was bloody awful) but by god that puts a a different slant on things.

Heartbreaking stuff. I remember the rumours about something not being quite as it should be at Crewe, from a scout as a kid... but adults did not talk to children back then; so I do not know how much was known or even remember which club the scout was from... I can remember several meetings with Jimmy Mullen (not Burnley’s but ex-Rovers winger) with my dad, but I don’t think it was him... I think it was actually at a town team game against Blackpool. Not that it matters now apart from to illustrate ‘something ’ was known a long time before it broke.

I feel deeply saddened that young lads lives were ruined just when they should have been on top of the world. Really really sad... and I too felt a little embarrassed at my reaction to Stewart’s time with Burnley in the past, but by his own admission the player himself was past caring by then.

I have only watched the first part and what a hard watch it was. It was heartbreaking to listen to Paul Stewart’s mum and how she has struggled to deal with not being able to protect her son.

Thank God this is much, much less likely to ever happen again. I watched Steve Walters break down on my television. The last time I saw him he was stood just feet away from me on the touchline at Gawthorpe watching his son play at least knowing that his son will be safe and looked after.

Once again huge well done to Andy Woodward & Daniel Taylor for exposing all this.

I remember him being a poor player for us, but now I see what he's had to put up with it's a miracle he even got on the pitch.

The point is made in the Paul Weller book that if a player is having a poor game nobody knows except himself what state he is in, what mental state he is suffering, things that are troubling him, ranging from a bad night with a toddler to the burden that Paul Stewart carried for all of his career. Many a time a player is told he is playing when he is in no fit state, but out he goes and can suffer dogs abuse when he is not up to scratch.

Rodleydave wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:44 pm

The point is made in the Paul Weller book that if a player is having a poor game nobody knows except himself what state he is in, what mental state he is suffering, things that are troubling him, ranging from a bad night with a toddler to the burden that Paul Stewart carried for all of his career. Many a time a player is told he is playing when he is in no fit state, but out he goes and can suffer dogs abuse when he is not up to scratch.

Really interesting thought that, and something so easily forgotten when a player makes a huge mistake in a game. It’s an unforgiving occupation, regardless of salary. You’re almost not seen as a real person, but a club asset that should be performing at a high level at all times, regardless.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:43 pm

Thank God this is much, much less likely to ever happen again. I watched Steve Walters break down on my television. The last time I saw him he was stood just feet away from me on the touchline at Gawthorpe watching his son play at least knowing that his son will be safe and looked after.

I wouldn't be so certain, for that very reason. There are checks, children are more aware, safe guarding officers........... people become complacent.

In the past couple of years I've had the misfortune of seeing a convicted, predatory, paedophile working his way into an organisation. It's amazing how trusting people are for whatever reason, they're reformed, they're controlling their urges, they're misunderstood, they'll play on perceived disabilities etc etc. Very, very, quickly they've befriended people, then they gain their trust, then they are invited into people's homes, people start to believe every lie they have as a legitimate reason for any slight discretion (accidentally being where children/families are), and people start believing them over those who have concerns. Before you know it they have become part of the organisation, people forget to keep chaperoning them and they start to blend into the furniture and befriend young people because they see the adults doing the same. It's frightening to see how quickly it can happen if people are complacent.

Then there is what goes on on-line, that's a whole other world.

He played well for other clubs. He didn’t for us.

I can’t stomach watching anything about paedos. I can’t understand how they are ever let out. They don’t get better. I’d rather we put them to death.

WadingInDeeper wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:54 pm

I wouldn't be so certain, for that very reason. There are checks, children are more aware, safe guarding officers........... people become complacent.

In the past couple of years I've had the misfortune of seeing a convicted, predatory, paedophile working his way into an organisation. It's amazing how trusting people are for whatever reason, they're reformed, they're controlling their urges, they're misunderstood, they'll play on perceived disabilities etc etc. Very, very, quickly they've befriended people, then they gain their trust, then they are invited into people's homes, people start to believe every lie they have as a legitimate reason for any slight discretion (accidentally being where children/families are), and people start believing them over those who have concerns. Before you know it they have become part of the organisation, people forget to keep chaperoning them and they start to blend into the furniture and befriend young people because they see the adults doing the same. It's frightening to see how quickly it can happen if people are complacent.

Then there is what goes on on-line, that's a whole other world.

You can never be certain it can’t happen again but as much as is possible has been put in place to make it as unlikely as possible.

Paul Stewart’s experience really got to me last night , he was poor for us but it’s hardly surprising having to go through what he did , lost his wife last year too , poor bloke.

I've just watched parts 1 and 2.
Couldn't do part 3 tonight, too shaken by it.

Just watched the 1st 2 episodes. Bob Higgins getting away with it twice just shows what a shower our justice system is.

Murger wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:07 pm

Just watched the 1st 2 episodes. Bob Higgins getting away with it twice just shows what a shower our justice system is.

Dean Radford has set up a petition to try to change the law to allow someone to be re-tried of such a serious offence.

http://chng.it/sw64GbpzrS

i can't bring myself to watch it.

I haven't watched it yet, I may do in the coming days, but it doesn't sound like it's for the faint-hearted, mind you given the subject matter that's not surprising.

yTib wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:45 pm

i can't bring myself to watch it.

It really is so hard to watch at times. The effects on these lads and their families is devastating.

As a child growing up, I used to love watching David White at City. So unbelievably sad to hear what he was going through whilst I was sat enjoying his goals on the tv. Really hard watch and I’ve only watched the first so far.

I’ve just finished watching the third and final part. I really can’t find any appropriate words.

Can anyone tell me what I can catch it on.

I don't want too, but feel I owe it to those who suffered, to watch it. No point in hiding from the bad things in life.

Colburn_Claret wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:42 am

Can anyone tell me what I can catch it on.

I don't want too, but feel I owe it to those who suffered, to watch it. No point in hiding from the bad things in life.

It is on BBC iPlayer

An horrific watch over the 3 episodes, one of the hardest watches for some imo.

Just watched part 3. What can you say?

I'm surprised nobody's been on telling us it was "just what went on in the 70's and everyone's too sensitive these days".

Or maybe they have but been quickly deleted.

Tip of the iceberg. Sadly it is worldwide and from every level of society

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:52 pm

I'm surprised nobody's been on telling us it was "just what went on in the 70's and everyone's too sensitive these days".

Or maybe they have but been quickly deleted.

I'm stunned you would think this. Abhorrent behaviour and I don't believe anyone on here would defend it in such a way.

taio wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:14 pm

I'm stunned you would think this. Abhorrent behaviour and I don't believe anyone on here would defend it in such a way.

There's been plenty of such comments on previous threads about the subject. I wouldn't have written it otherwise.

boatshed bill wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:37 pm

Just watched part 3. What can you say?

Exactly how I felt last night when I reached the end of part 3.

Sickening, truly sickening.

At the conclusion of tonight's programme it was written on the screen that over 300 clubs (332 I think,) were implicated in some way with this awful series of offending and that 800 plus victims had been located. It makes me feel tainted in some way to be a football supporter through all that period. I have four sons and have been disappointed that not one of them has shown the slightest interest in football like their Dad. Having watched those programmes I am now glad that they had no interest.
As recognised by these victims and the programme makers these children and young men were betrayed not only by the evil perpetrators but also by the 'justice system' and the Clubs they were attached to.

The number of clubs implicated is staggering and the comments about how working with youngsters makes coaching the perfect guise for those with abhorrent tendencies I would suggest all sports (and places of child development) have these issues. Very sad and as others have said it’s the tip of a very big iceberg.

Normal people just can’t believe this sort of stuff goes on but it suggests to me that the percentage of heinous cretins is far bigger than most of us imagine and the vast majority are walking free amongst us getting away with murder.

No questions asked, anybody found guilty of being a nonce, off with their head. Sickos like that can't be rehabilitated.

The Chairman of Crewe Alexandra has resigned in the face of the report and criticism that not enough was done to protect the boys from Bennell when he was at the club. Follows on from an apology last week from Dario Gradi for "not recognising signs of abuse".

Outstanding bravery from all those who ensured these abusers saw their day in court and faced justice.

It's not an easy watch, but it's a must watch. Applause for Daniel Taylor of the Guardian (at the time) too who, amongst others, gave them a voice and helped pursue their fight.

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:40 am

The Chairman of Crewe Alexandra has resigned in the face of the report and criticism that not enough was done to protect the boys from Bennell when he was at the club. Follows on from an apology last week from Dario Gradi for "not recognising signs of abuse".

Bowler gone as chairman - that's the first positive news to come out of that club since Andy Woodward first spoke out in 2016 about Bennell.

Statement on Bowler's resignation from the Offside Trust below:

Bowler's resignation followed pressure from his own supporters. Statement below.


The Railwaymen Supporters Society (RSS) Board met on Wednesday 24th March to discuss the Sheldon Report and the situation at Crewe Alex Football Club. As a result, we can share the following information at this time:

We have fully accepted the Sheldon Report and its findings. Our upmost sympathies are with all the Survivors for the pain that they have suffered and continue to suffer.

We have received numerous items of correspondence from both members and non-members of the RSS regarding this subject.

We believe that John Bowler should resign from all positions held at the club with immediate effect. This matches the opinion of the majority of fans from their correspondence to the RSS and from across social media.

The RSS have already contacted John Bowler directly and made these feelings clear to him.

The RSS Board will now offer to meet with the Survivors of the Abuse to understand what steps we can take going forwards. We have already had contact with one of the Survivors and will look to meet with them shortly.

We will continue to liaise with our members, the fans, the football club and the Survivors on this subject.

I can't get part 2 - has it been pulled for some reason?

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:02 pm

I can't get part 2 - has it been pulled for some reason?

I've just had a look and only parts 1 and 2 are now there. Message here that says it will be available soon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000tjhv

Jakubs Tash wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:02 pm

I can't get part 2 - has it been pulled for some reason?

Now available again

I’m watching it now on BBC iplayer.

It’s horrific, god bless everyone effected.

Rodleydave wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:44 pm

The point is made in the Paul Weller book that if a player is having a poor game nobody knows except himself what state he is in, what mental state he is suffering, things that are troubling him, ranging from a bad night with a toddler to the burden that Paul Stewart carried for all of his career. Many a time a player is told he is playing when he is in no fit state, but out he goes and can suffer dogs abuse when he is not up to scratch.

With all due respect it’s not up to the fans to psychologically delve/assess into players mental well-being, the manager picks the team & should be aware of all this, my door is always open kind of thing when developing rapports with the players, some kind of welfare or counselling facilities should be encompassed within clubs to deal with everything from addiction to gambling & other problems & them same facilities should cover all the fans with a season ticket by appointment only to initially assess, nobody should be isolated or left in the wilderness it should be 1 family.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:34 am

With all due respect it’s not up to the fans to psychologically delve/assess into players mental well-being, the manager picks the team & should be aware of all this, my door is always open kind of thing when developing rapports with the players, some kind of welfare or counselling facilities should be encompassed within clubs to deal with everything from addiction to gambling & other problems & them same facilities should cover all the fans with a season ticket by appointment only to initially assess, nobody should be isolated or left in the wilderness it should be 1 family.

I think Stewart's biggest problem, in terms of his ability to play at the time of him coming here, was that he was injured, although he was strangely played by Mullen. Of course he will have been carrying that burden of what happened to him as a youngster all through his career. Very sad.

fidelcastro wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 27, 2021 2:40 pm

I think Stewart's biggest problem, in terms of his ability to play at the time of him coming here, was that he was injured, although he was strangely played by Mullen. Of course he will have been carrying that burden of what happened to him as a youngster all through his career. Very sad.

My earlier post was just a general statement applicable to anybody suffering with problems BFC affiliated, whether that’s the player or the chap who sorts the bibs & cones out at barnfield or the supporters themselves, if you work or pay into an organisation/business a universal set system should be in place where you are automatically looked after.

Burnleyareback2 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:22 pm

I’m watching it now on BBC iplayer.

It’s horrific, god bless everyone effected.

When watching it I wondered what the response would be on the message board. It’s reassuring to read that everyone’s thoughts are virtually the same.

Jakubclaret wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 27, 2021 5:17 pm

My earlier post was just a general statement applicable to anybody suffering with problems BFC affiliated, whether that’s the player or the chap who sorts the bibs & cones out at barnfield or the supporters themselves, if you work or pay into an organisation/business a universal set system should be in place where you are automatically looked after.

Presumably this private healthcare for supporters should be included in the current cost of their season ticket?