September 1922 and at the Sir John Thursby Estate Auction, Burnley FC buy Turf moor and the Cricket ground for £8,000.
Turf Moor went for £4,500 and the Cricket ground £3,500. What a bargain!

Clickbait

Interesting.

Interesting that the club also bought the cricket ground as well, shame they didn't hold onto it.

Very interesting find. Enjoyed reading it. Are you researching anything in particular Mike or trawling the archive?

When did the football club sell the cricket ground?

I thought they tried to buy the cricket ground a few years ago for future developments to the CFS.

So we own the cricket club as well?

Great! We can relocate Burnley CC and redevelop Turf Moor properly...

Wouldn't make sense for the cricket club to sell to BFC

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:34 pm

Very interesting find. Enjoyed reading it. Are you researching anything in particular Mike or trawling the archive?

Researching the last season of Tommy Boyle 1922-23 for a film Elwa from the British Library online newspapers this story cropped up in the BUrnley News in September 1922. Thursby owned a lot of land in the town and some of Burnleys pits and there had been speculation in 1922 as to what would happen to Turf Moor.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:36 pm

When did the football club sell the cricket ground?

Not sure Tony - but it’s interesting that the football club bought both lots in 1922. At the time the club had a balance of around £24,000 in the bank but on the previous season posted a profit of only £137. Players wages were increasing and Burnleys gates falling with the Depression, strikes, etc.
I would guess we sold the cricket ground from 1930 when BUrnley were relegated to raise income.

We agreed to buy the freehold land of Burnley Cricket Club in 2000, in principle, and the value then was £1.25m. That never happened for whatever reason.

Lancashire Telegraph article from August 2000 where Clive Holt was talking about redeveloping the Cricket Field Stand (21 years ago!!!!!), plus the Bob Lord Stand, and taking our capacity closer to 30,000.

Below that is mention of the discussions in the BCC official company accounts.

Claretforever wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:13 pm

We agreed to buy the freehold land of Burnley Cricket Club in 2000, in principle, and the value then was £1.25m. That never happened for whatever reason.

Lancashire Telegraph article from August 2000 where Clive Holt was talking about redeveloping the Cricket Field Stand (21 years ago!!!!!), plus the Bob Lord Stand, and taking our capacity closer to 30,000.

Below that is mention of the discussions in the BCC official company accounts.

Now they would want nearer 10m I'd imagine.

Although I think its needed IMO if we are to get the facilities into the 21st century.

The land could be used to redevelop the stand itself and in turn the changing rooms, fan access as well as possibly more corporate opportunities.

Plenty of land left over to build club stores, ticket offices, fan bar, parking etc

Its frightening the amount of land the cricket club has, and also the car park beging the next match board.

In turn it could also see the Bob Lord gain a much needed revamp and face lift as I'm sure you would be able to make any new structure then dove tail into a newer Bob Lord stand again with more and better corporate facilities.

It's one of the best purchases we could make, and has been for the last decade.

I’d forgotten that in 2000 but it was a few years later, 2005 I think, when we tried to move the cricket club onto Fulledge Rec.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:15 pm

I’d forgotten that in 2000 but it was a few years later, 2005 I think, when we tried to move the cricket club onto Fulledge Rec.

It’s mentioned in the same article from 2000. Time flies...

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... cket-club/

Claretforever wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:27 pm

It’s mentioned in the same article from 2000. Time flies...

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... cket-club/

I’ve looked back and found reference to it. I’m not sure it got very far but the one a few years later went as far as the cricket club bringing in a company to design the new ground. In the end, the potential new ground wouldn’t have been big enough.

TONY:
Just done a search ad it looks like Burnley CC became a limited company in 1925 and they posted their first years figures the following year 1926. Before that in 1924 the club reported that since the war the club had lost approx £1,500 and needed to raise funds through a share offer. They first wanted to raise £5,000 but this later increased to £6,000.
In March 1926 the club had raised just short of the £5,000 but over a thousand shares had not been taken up but it looks likely that an agreement to buy the ground from the Football Club was made then. Would need to see the income figures for BFC for 1926-7 to see if the sum arrived in that years accounts.

The Burnley Express 12 July 1924 21 October 1924 Burnley News March 6 1926

Tottenham entered into regeneration plans with Haringey Council that enabled the use of compulsory purchase orders to stop local businesses thwarting the redevlopment of their ground. Sounds a bit heavy handed but should the relative economic value of BFC and BCC to the local community be a factor if BCC were to resist overtures from BFC?

Duffer_ wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:54 pm

Tottenham entered into regeneration plans with Haringey Council that enabled the use of compulsory purchase orders to stop local businesses thwarting the redevlopment of their ground. Sounds a bit heavy handed but should the relative economic value of BFC and BCC to the local community be a factor if BCC were to resist overtures from BFC?

What happened at Tottenham was extremely heavy handed - it was noticeable just how much they targeted their attending fans and immediate community to develop their financial growth - all but eradicating small local business at a local trading estate - wanting to redevelop the high street environment around them by building a new shopping centre that is in keeping with their preferred image (and rents) - to bulldozing local shops to provide a more direct pedestrianised route from the renamed White Hart Lane Station

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:54 am

What happened at Tottenham was extremely heavy handed - it was noticeable just how much they targeted their attending fans and immediate community to develop their financial growth - all but eradicating small local business at a local trading estate - wanting to redevelop the high street environment around them by building a new shopping centre that is in keeping with their preferred image (and rents) - to bulldozing local shops to provide a more direct pedestrianised route from the renamed White Hart Lane Station

It did seem strange that they managed to persuade TLC to change the name of the station to White Hart Lane while doing all they can to obliterate the name White Hart Lane from the ground because they wanted to make more money from sponsorship.

As for Burnley CC, they were all but bankrupt at the end of WW1 and seriously considered dropping out of the league. Burnley St Andrew;s were mooted as a possible replacement. The share capital issue was a final desperate attempt to raise funds (which worked, obviously) and explains why BFC is the only one of the 14 long standing Lancs League clubs to be a limited company.

I seem to remember there were some convenient fires too.

At least if Clive Holt is not involved in any ground redevelopments, we have a chance that a new stand will at least be in the right place....

I hope we eventually buy the cricket club...that land is golddust,unfortunately the cricket club know that.

Duffer_ wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 28, 2021 8:54 pm

Tottenham entered into regeneration plans with Haringey Council that enabled the use of compulsory purchase orders to stop local businesses thwarting the redevlopment of their ground. Sounds a bit heavy handed but should the relative economic value of BFC and BCC to the local community be a factor if BCC were to resist overtures from BFC?

Didn't Walker do similar at Blackburn, forcing a business out to develop the Darwen End?

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:44 am

Didn't Walker do similar at Blackburn, forcing a business out to develop the Darwen End?

Yes he did. There was a carpet mill behind the Darwen end, where the Coach park is now. Walker bought the mill and closed it down. I use to deliver there.

RammyClaret61 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:12 am

Yes he did. There was a carpet mill behind the Darwen end, where the Coach park is now. Walker bought the mill and closed it down. I use to deliver there.

I thought it was an old mill but I couldn't be sure but I do know that Walker's actions meant people losing jobs.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:20 am

I thought it was an old mill but I couldn't be sure but I do know that Walker's actions meant people losing jobs.

And their homes too from memory - didn't they knock down houses on Nuttall Street to build a new stand?

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:44 am

And their homes too from memory - didn't they knock down houses on Nuttall Street to build a new stand?

A lot of houses went on Nuttall Street including the manager's office which was in one of those houses. I'm not so sure of the circumstances with that though.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:51 am

A lot of houses went on Nuttall Street including the manager's office which was in one of those houses. I'm not so sure of the circumstances with that though.

A dead body was found burried in one of the back yards.

claretandy wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:19 am

A dead body was found burried in one of the back yards.

Good memory claretandy - it held everything up while it was investigated. Hadn't it been there a long time?

Interesting posts. I have just registered to ask a question! Does anybody know the total number of shares issued by Burnley Cricket Club? I inherited quite a few £1 shares so from the above I assume the answer might be 6,000?
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere

I thought someone was convicted of manslaughter over that body which I think was that of a teenager missing for several years

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:00 pm

I thought someone was convicted of manslaughter over that body which I think was that of a teenager missing for several years

yes https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... blakemore/

mdd2 wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:00 pm

I thought someone was convicted of manslaughter over that body which I think was that of a teenager missing for several years

Good memory

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/n ... ried-good/

jsclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 am

Interesting posts. I have just registered to ask a question! Does anybody know the total number of shares issued by Burnley Cricket Club? I inherited quite a few £1 shares so from the above I assume the answer might be 6,000?
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere

I can't answer this but there are people on this board who are able to find lists of shareholders.

jsclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 am

Interesting posts. I have just registered to ask a question! Does anybody know the total number of shares issued by Burnley Cricket Club? I inherited quite a few £1 shares so from the above I assume the answer might be 6,000?
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere

there is no list of shareholders at companies house - I suspect you would have to write to the club secretary - details linked

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... 7/officers

There was a change of the Articles of association in 2005 and that prevented dividend's being paid to shareholders and also director's from being paid, it also prevents Shareholders/Directors from receiving any payment from the club even on dissolution. Effectively the shares are worthless from what I see. I suspect this was done as a result of the proposed sale at the time.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ory?page=4

On a slightly separate note, Burnley Cricket Club (Bar) limited posted a set of accounts last week that show how Covid has impacted them, they have £48k of debtors up from a couple of hundred pounds in the previous ones (members fees/sponsors fees?) and have taken out a £50k bank loan

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

According to the report on the clubs first AGM in 1926, There were 6,000 shares at £1 each when the offer was made in 1924. Some 4,700 were taken up leaving them short of their target and these were offered again in 1926.

Thanks for the information.
Not sure how the shares could be classed as effectively worthless when they own a valuable piece of land. As we know anyone could come along and acquire a majority shareholding if they make the right offer.
Not sure I would sell though due to family links to the cricket club in the past!

jsclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:17 pm

Thanks for the information.
Not sure how the shares could be classed as effectively worthless when they own a valuable piece of land. As we know anyone could come along and acquire a majority shareholding if they make the right offer.
Not sure I would sell though due to family links to the cricket club in the past!

like I said any sale of assets can no longer benefit shareholders/directors - read the change in the Articles of Associations as I said - even if the club is dissolved the funds would go to the cricket family, it is very explicit with those details, all in the first two pages of the document

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/docu ... cc41324b68

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:25 pm

like I said any sale of assets can no longer benefit shareholders/directors - read the change in the Articles of Associations as I said - even if the club is dissolved the funds would go to the cricket family, it is very explicit with those details, all in the first two pages of the document

Now that's what I call custodianship! Well played BCC.

jsclaret wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:39 am

Interesting posts. I have just registered to ask a question! Does anybody know the total number of shares issued by Burnley Cricket Club? I inherited quite a few £1 shares so from the above I assume the answer might be 6,000?
How many of these shares might be in the hands of Burnley Football Club fans? Presumably there is a shareholders register somewhere

You can see shareholdings here https://find-and-update.company-informa ... download=0

5,996 shares issued. Some random ones in there: United News & Media PLC who don't exist any more, JC Decaux and 240 shares held by Burnley Football Club Ltd (which I assume is the football club even though the name is wrong).

Duffer_ wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:03 pm

Now that's what I call custodianship! Well played BCC.

Pt also stops a group from forcing the sale of the ground for personal profit, though theoretically someone could buy all the shares and change the articles of association again

Chester Perry wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:14 pm

there is no list of shareholders at companies house - I suspect you would have to write to the club secretary - details linked

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... 7/officers

There was a change of the Articles of association in 2005 and that prevented dividend's being paid to shareholders and also director's from being paid, it also prevents Shareholders/Directors from receiving any payment from the club even on dissolution. Effectively the shares are worthless from what I see. I suspect this was done as a result of the proposed sale at the time.

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ory?page=4

On a slightly separate note, Burnley Cricket Club (Bar) limited posted a set of accounts last week that show how Covid has impacted them, they have £48k of debtors up from a couple of hundred pounds in the previous ones (members fees/sponsors fees?) and have taken out a £50k bank loan

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... ng-history

Interesting amendment ( direct link here https://find-and-update.company-informa ... download=0 ). Seems a bit of a bodge to try and change it to something akin to a Company limited by Guarantee

I beg your pardon ?

aggi wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:43 pm

Interesting amendment ( direct link here https://find-and-update.company-informa ... download=0 ). Seems a bit of a bodge to try and change it to something akin to a Company limited by Guarantee

I may be wrong but I think that was all done with the intention of becoming a CASC and taking the befits that come with such a structure for sports clubs.

aggi wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:38 pm

You can see shareholdings here https://find-and-update.company-informa ... download=0

5,996 shares issued. Some random ones in there: United News & Media PLC who don't exist any more, JC Decaux and 240 shares held by Burnley Football Club Ltd (which I assume is the football club even though the name is wrong).

I know a lot of the names on that list of shareholders but a good number of them who are not showing as deceased have passed away. There are 21 people listed who I knew personally who are now no longer with us, and some of them for some years.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:51 am

I know a lot of the names on that list of shareholders but a good number of them who are not showing as deceased have passed away. There are 21 people listed who I knew personally who are now no longer with us, and some of them for some years.

There is a Brian Miller listed - could it be the BFC legend?

arise_sir_charge wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:03 am

I may be wrong but I think that was all done with the intention of becoming a CASC and taking the befits that come with such a structure for sports clubs.

Yes, the amendment seems very much in line with that requirement.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:51 am

I know a lot of the names on that list of shareholders but a good number of them who are not showing as deceased have passed away. There are 21 people listed who I knew personally who are now no longer with us, and some of them for some years.

I imagine it's very out of date. People aren't going to bother notifying the club for the sake of a share or two that are pretty much worthless.

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:01 am

There is a Brian Miller listed - could it be the BFC legend?

I'm certain it will be - he was a keen supporter of the cricket club at one time and David played for the first team a few times.