After today’s defeat ( I thought we played well ) and Newc were poor though took their chances superbly . Also taking into account pretty poor shows vs Fulham /West Brom and Soton it seems very clear that “ our best “ is quite simply no longer good enough . While our bench was Zero and presuming Taylor has a knock ?we’re looking almost “ 1st prem season under Dyche “ IMO

We’ll stay up but never have I seen us more desperate for a couple of high quality additions

You say our bench was zero. I'm sure we could have used Cork and Taylor during that game.

No our use of subs at 2-1 would have helped
Lewis, Jack and Charlie on
JBG off Dwight switched to wide right
Jack on for a tiring Ash Westwood and Lewis on for Chris Wood.

Woodleyclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:08 pm

No our use of subs at 2-1 would have helped
Lewis, Jack and Charlie on
JBG off Dwight switched to wide right
Jack on for a tiring Ash Westwood and Lewis on for Chris Wood.

Lewis on for Chris Wood - huge LOL at that suggestion

Vino blanco wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:03 pm

You say our bench was zero. I'm sure we could have used Cork and Taylor during that game.

Personally I’d have brought on either Stephens or Cork for Brownhill

Nothing to do with subs.

We didn't have the quality to kill it off but when the defence needed to step up they were found wanting again.

Quickenthetempo wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:19 pm

Nothing to do with subs.

We didn't have the quality to kill it off but when the defence needed to step up they were found wanting again.

I think their Keeper had a say in some of our finishing TBF.

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:20 pm

I think their Keeper had a say in some of our finishing TBF.

He certainly had a good game and was man of the match for me.

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:20 pm

I think their Keeper had a say in some of our finishing TBF.

Their best player by some distance

Think our best is plenty good enough, we were by far the better team for the majority of the game my worry is we don't learn, again when St Maxim ran at us why don't we step up and stop him, if it means taking a yellow so be it, slow the game down, get team mates back in place and defend the free kick 40 or 50 yards out instead we let him run at us turned us inside out and scored just like he did at St James's

our midfield is in need of massive upgrade, IF we stay up that's where I would spend whatever money there is plus a right winger

XDS wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:29 pm

Think our best is plenty good enough, we were by far the better team for the majority of the game my worry is we don't learn, again when St Maxim ran at us why don't we step up and stop him, if it means taking a yellow so be it, slow the game down, get team mates back in place and defend the free kick 40 or 50 yards out instead we let him run at us turned us inside out and scored just like he did at St James's

A bit Like Ings did last Week... sometimes you've got to Concede to Quality by the strikers however painful.

Sometimes, especially when a goal or two up, a proactive change of formation might help but we know this will never happen as long as Sean is manager. My German friend Manfred who watches Burnley games with interest and intently, asked why we are playing better football than previously but losing more games. A good question !

Possibly.

Recruitment has obviously been poor but I also think it's important to remember that football is ever changing.

Initially under Dyche our work ethic set us apart from most sides, it gave us a dimension/advantage because it was more unique to us, but I think a lot of other teams have added this to their game now. A lot have also added pace and power. When you start taking away the few advantages from us we are always going to struggle, Dyche himself has talked about how fine the margins are.

We absolutely have to change in the summer, either by recruiting better players or finding our own advantages again. I fear next year will be our last in the top flight if we don't.

To stay up then yes "our best" is good enough in many games, but it would be folly not to take notice of how much we've regressed this season, and I agree with those posters who think we need to strengthen in key areas come the next window, midfield in particular is a concern if we're to remain competitive in this league going forwards.

It's been a tough season, but we look like just having enough to get over the line this time anyway, and this summer will be our biggest window for several seasons, we simply have to add creativity, pace and youth from somewhere, otherwise I really fear for us next season unfortunately.

Some excellent replies , and I hope ( and think) that the owners will see the need . It’s often disheartening when fellow strugglers like Soton /Newc etc have technical and creative talents and you think “what Dyche could do with a couple them “ Not to say he’s not done an almighty job this season or we’re bereft of talent , we’re not .
Onwards and upwards

Yes at times there isn’t much more we can do and it would be nice for some quality additions to the squad to make those times rarer occasions.

However, we are absolutely miles ahead of where we were in our first and second season in the prem with dyche. Even the Europe season we were arguably only better with defour, and since then have improved almost everywhere else.

The problem for me is the ageing squad is also small, not that it is old. We have about 13 proper first team players fit at any one time, which is a bit ridiculous... How much better would we be doing if we upped that number to maybe 15-18

tim_noone wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:34 pm

A bit Like Ings did last Week... sometimes you've got to Concede to Quality by the strikers however painful.

Sorry Tim, I don’t agree with you there we could of stopped today’s goal with a foul on SM. I know that’s not very sporting but sometimes these things need doing.

I realise our midfield isn`t made up of world beaters but in fairness to them Dyches tatics more often than not leaves them outnumbered and chasing shadows, do we need better yes but unless tatics/formations change our midfielders will always be chasing shadows at times no matter how good they are.

For us to do well and win games we need most of the team
to be at their best and as of late we haven't had that.

In the past our defense has been pretty solid and if anything we've
struggled up front. It seems the other way round at present with
Wood and Vydra playing well and scoring goals.
Midfield also isn't performing as well as it could be.

It's disappointing to say the least to lose our last two games
after being ahead 2-0 and 1-0 and looking good - certainly in the first half.

If we manage to stay up then we'll need 2 or 3 new players in
who can make a difference otherwise we'll be going down next season.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:12 pm

Personally I’d have brought on either Stephens or Cork for Brownhill

Have to agree-Westwood needs more help from a seasoned central midfielder. He was the one constantly coming back to take the ball off the back four and as a result our main creator. Like to see Cork get a run now

Its the lack of goals that worries me-so if we do go behind you cant see us scoring. And this in a season that has seen the PL generate a huge amount of goals

XDS wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:29 pm

...when St Maxim ran at us why don't we step up and stop him...we let him run at us turned us inside out and scored just like he did at St James's

i couldn't have been he only one who thought "Oh, ****" the moment Bruce made that double substitution.

Lack 9f investment in the first team over last 4 windows. Plus some crucial injuries.

Our best clearly is good enough because we’re going to stay up for a sixth consecutive season, and you seem to have conveniently left out the recent impressive display against Everton.

That said, after years of underinvestment the squad needs a substantial overhaul in the summer, because it might not be good enough for next season.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:03 pm

Its the lack of goals that worries me-so if we do go behind you cant see us scoring. And this in a season that has seen the PL generate a huge amount of goals

Goals haven't been as much of a problem recently, it's been the lack of clean sheets that's been more of an issue surprisingly.

AfloatinClaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:10 pm

i couldn't have been he only one who thought "Oh, ****" the moment Bruce made that double substitution.

And unless the commentary team were sat in the Newcastle team talk, they knew what was coming. Get to the second half and bring on Wilson and ASM. Our response? Carry on lumping balls into their box and bring on Mumbongo with 3 mins of injury time to play. As we were last week, tactically out thought by the opposition manager and outplayed as a consequence.

warksclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:03 pm

Its the lack of goals that worries me-so if we do go behind you cant see us scoring. And this in a season that has seen the PL generate a huge amount of goals

We are not far behind the number of goals scored at this stage three years ago when we were qualifying for Europe. In game 31 that season we’d just beaten West Brom and reached 29 goals.

Herts Clarets wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:28 pm

And unless the commentary team were sat in the Newcastle team talk, they knew what was coming. Get to the second half and bring on Wilson and ASM. Our response? Carry on lumping balls into their box and bring on Mumbongo with 3 mins of injury time to play. As we were last week, tactically out thought by the opposition manager and outplayed as a consequence.

Laughable comments but what to expect Isuppose after a defeat. Do you seriously believe we’ve been outplayed in either of the last two games?

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:28 pm

Goals haven't been as much of a problem recently, it's been the lack of clean sheets that's been more of an issue surprisingly.

We are struggling to keep clean sheets at the moment. Only one I think since Palace away.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:39 pm

We are struggling to keep clean sheets at the moment. Only one I think since Palace away.

Yes and that was the West Brom game, and we were lucky to keep them out in that game.

I've no doubt we will get back to basics again, and the clean sheets and wins will return soon, we've actually played pretty well in patches in the last 3 games, we've just been undone by individual errors, which are a killer at this level.

Indeed you could argue we're playing the best football of our season, certainly the 1st half at Everton, the first half hour at Southampton, and the 1st half yesterday were perfectly adequate performances at this level to win games more often than not, but you don't always get what you deserve in this tough league, however some of the comments have been way out on context, especially as we're on the verge of securing a 6th straight season at this level, some perspective is needed by some of the more hysterical posters, we will lose games at this level, and we'll also have bad runs from time to time, that's just the reality for most teams in this division, even the so called big 6 will have their blips, it's how we react to these setbacks that's important, and SD and the squad have repeatedly shown that they are well capable of turning it around when required, we just need to keep the faith.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:37 pm

Laughable comments but what to expect Isuppose after a defeat. Do you seriously believe we’ve been outplayed in either of the last two games?

What does 24 shots conceded against Southampton suggest?

tiger76 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:17 pm

Yes and that was the West Brom game, and we were lucky to keep them out in that game.

I've no doubt we will get back to basics again, and the clean sheets and wins will return soon, we've actually played pretty well in patches in the last 3 games, we've just been undone by individual errors, which are a killer at this level.

Indeed you could argue we're playing the best football of our season, certainly the 1st half at Everton, the first half hour at Southampton, and the 1st half yesterday were perfectly adequate performances at this level to win games more often than not, but you don't always get what you deserve in this tough league, however some of the comments have been way out on context, especially as we're on the verge of securing a 6th straight season at this level, some perspective is needed by some of the more hysterical posters, we will lose games at this level, and we'll also have bad runs from time to time, that's just the reality for most teams in this division, even the so called big 6 will have their blips, it's how we react to these setbacks that's important, and SD and the squad have repeatedly shown that they are well capable of turning it around when required, we just need to keep the faith.

My summation is that in search of ending our goal drought we’ve started to be more expansive (see my “too expansive” post) and that’s exposed us badly at the back.

Particularly we seem to lose possession cheaply well in the oppositions half and then concede.

I’d like us to just see this season out and get back to being disciplined, but with the dead ball quality lacking this season I’m really not sure how we’ll score if we do that.

Thought we generally played very well and should have taken the points ordinarily. What was extremely disappointing was our lack of ‘attacking’ headers from all our crosses (Wood could study Cavani perhaps?). More to the point was our defenders ‘avoiding’ St Max! McNeil tracking him for the first and Tarky pretending to have to direct Mee to the runner instead of engaging!!!

Not the first time we've let an attacker just wonder all the way through unchallenged. Does nobody have the wherewithal to just take a booking and bring him down?

It's just a reality check for fans, Tarkowski isn't Barcelona standard or future England captain bla bla bla, we don't have the best left back in the Premier League on the bench, Westwood isn't our greatest ever midfield player. Meanwhile Lingard is on absolute fire, remember he isn't Burnley standard.

The reality is we're a hard working team with in general very ordinary players for this level. Pope is incredible, Tarkowski is incredibly overrated. Our central midfield options aren't good enough, Taylor is a very good left back but hasn't played well all season, the other 3 fullbacks are meh (despite Lowtons run of 5 superb games).

Upfront what do we have? Barnes Vydra and Rodriguez haven't shown any kind of goalscoring consistency. Then look at our wide options, our whole creativity is reliant upon a youngster in Mcneil, I remember people on here saying Gudmundsson was a £20-25M player


Desperately need a major squad overhaul but we don't have the cash for it.

'Not the first time we've let an attacker just wonder all the way through unchallenged. Does nobody have the wherewithal to just take a booking and bring him down?'

Sad to say but it looked as though our defenders were frightened of St Maxim. There were 4 around him and a couple 'in reserve'' but not one of them sought to get even near to him.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:37 pm

Laughable comments but what to expect Isuppose after a defeat. Do you seriously believe we’ve been outplayed in either of the last two games?

We started brilliantly at Southampton and were well on top for the first 25-30 minutes, but after that they absolutely battered us and we were lucky to only lose by one goal in the end.

We didn't play well yesterday, but we certainly weren't outplayed. We just failed to respond to their predictable game plan, and once again we failed to defend a lead. We've been very good at defending leads in the past, so yesterday was very disappointing.

ClaretTony wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:37 pm

Laughable comments but what to expect Isuppose after a defeat. Do you seriously believe we’ve been outplayed in either of the last two games?

It's 2 defeats. Against teams around us in the league. Both times we have had a lead. Both times we have shown we are unable to hold onto a lead. Both times we have been undone by teams with pace attacking us. Both times the opposition have made changes to influence the game. Both times we have been either unwilling or unable to react to the changes, preferring to continue as we were. Maybe outplayed is the wrong word, but outthought and outmanoeuvred by the opposite manager we certainly were in both games. Against Southampton it could quite easily have been 5 or 6 but for the saves from Pope. Yesterday only a last ditch goal line clearance from Tarks after he had been roasted again by ASM prevented us conceding 3 for the second game in a row. As mentioned elsewhere, Saints had 24 shots on our goal to our 7.

A few months ago I said we are capable of putting a great run together, but by the same token this team (and we done this every season since our last promotion), can also go on a long winless run. I sincerely hope I am wrong, but something inside tells me this could be part of the latter. We have just had an incredibly easy run of games and failed to capitalise. We now in the run in face WHU, Man Utd, Liverpool,and can see our goal difference really coming under pressure, particularly if we face the next 8 games with Pope injured