Is our squad worst or better than the team we had 5 years ago in the premier league?

2016 team.

Heaton
Lowton, Keane, Mee, Ward
Gudmundsson, Defour, Hendrick, Arfield
Voles, Gray

2021 team.

Pope
Lowton, Tarks, Mee, Taylor
Gudmundsson, Brownhill, Westwood, McNeil
Wood, Vydra

There’s not a great deal between those two starting line ups.

Edit - and we’re likely to finish this season on a very similar number of points.

Very close call.

I think if you put Defour into this season’s side, or Wood into the 2016 side then it would tip the balance either way.

Airfield in 2016 is the player most likely to be making life difficult for Saint-Maximin. I don’t remember Voles, but about a par up front. Defore type players don’t come around so often... but for more consistently fit you have to go this year.

It's fairly damning that our starting line up hasn't really improved in 5 years, when you think how much money has come into the club.

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:14 pm

It's fairly damning that our starting line up hasn't really improved in 5 years, when you think how much money has come into the club.

The money coming into the club is relative though, as all of our competitors have had the same, and in most cases more money coming into their club. It's also relative to the amount of money that has come out of the club in substantially increased salaries. We're still only able to afford bottom end Premier League players which is why our team is unlikely to ever be significantly better than it is now, or was in 2017. Minor point, but the OP's squad is actually the 2016/17 squad, so it's 4 years ago.

Have a look at the premier league teams 5 years ago, I bet there’s a good few wish they had the same strength of squad that are now playing in the league below

jrgbfc wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:14 pm

It's fairly damning that our starting line up hasn't really improved in 5 years, when you think how much money has come into the club.

Not really. If you take the 17 teams that weren't relegated that season, and expect them all to get better, how many of them would now be top 10? I'm fairly sure it would be less than 17.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:16 pm

Is our squad worst or better than the team we had 5 years ago in the premier league?

2016 team.

Heaton
Lowton, Keane, Mee, Ward
Gudmundsson, Defour, Hendrick, Arfield
Voles, Gray

2021 team.

Pope
Lowton, Tarks, Mee, Taylor
Gudmundsson, Brownhill, Westwood, McNeil
Wood, Vydra

1 vs 1

Heaton vs Pope - draw for me, although Pope maybe a touch better.

Lowton same.

Keane beats Tarks but close call.

Mee same.

Taylor beats Ward for me but is injured a lot.

JBG same.

Defour beats brownhill.

Westwood beats Hendrick.

McNeil beats Arfield.

Wood and Vydra both better than vokes and gray.

Overall modern team player to player is better apart from defour for me. McNeil, Westwood, Taylor, Vydra and Wood supply much more quality than those they have replaced over the years.
However, we did seem to have a greater “togetherness” and ability to grind out results with that 2016 team.

If the two teams played against each other, I do think 2021 would beat 2016 with relative ease. Actually when 2021 plays as well as it can, it may even beat the 2017 Europe season team as some of the stuff we have played this year has been excellent. This year has been frustrating with some good and bad though.

Not sure JBG then and now could be considered the 'same.
Ward, too, was an excellent full back and as much as Charlie Taylor has improved he's not achieved the consistency of Ward.
Andre Gray scored goals to get us promoted and then to retain our Premier league status. Fair enough Vydra has not had the game time but still not at Gray's level.
Not too much,either, between Westwood and Hendrix.

Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:02 pm

Not sure JBG then and now could be considered the 'same.
Ward, too, was an excellent full back and as much as Charlie Taylor has improved he's not achieved the consistency of Ward.
Andre Gray scored goals to get us promoted and then to retain our Premier league status. Fair enough Vydra has not had the game time but still not at Gray's level.
Not too much,either, between Westwood and Hendrix.

JBG then was in his first proper season in the prem and now he is a would say a very similar player. Injuries mean he often doesn’t play the though.

We have previously had the Taylor vs Ward debate and it seems pretty even but in my opinion Taylor is a better player - maybe not quite as consistent due to injuries.

In the prem Vydra is a more complete player than Gray and adds more to the team.

Westwood is miles ahead of Hendrick in my and a lot of others opinion.

elwaclaret wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:33 pm

Airfield in 2016 is the player most likely to be making life difficult for Saint-Maximin. I don’t remember Voles, but about a par up front. Defore type players don’t come around so often... but for more consistently fit you have to go this year.

I don't remember Defore either....

Iloveyoubrady wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:44 pm

JBG then was in his first proper season in the prem and now he is a would say a very similar player. Injuries mean he often doesn’t play the though.

We have previously had the Taylor vs Ward debate and it seems pretty even but in my opinion Taylor is a better player - maybe not quite as consistent due to injuries.

In the prem Vydra is a more complete player than Gray and adds more to the team.

Westwood is miles ahead of Hendrick in my and a lot of others opinion.

Fair enough, all about opinions though Gudmundsson offers little now and is probably just glad to get through a.game without 'pulling up'.

I think that 2009 Carling Cup team spanks our current crop 4-0 in a cup tie.

Siddo wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:55 pm

I don't remember Defore either....

I've heard of him befour now.

Heaton
Lowton, Keane, Mee, Ward
Gudmundsson, Defour, Hendrick, Arfield
Voles, Gray

2021 team.

Pope
Lowton, Tarks, Mee, Taylor
Gudmundsson, Brownhill, Westwood, McNeil
Wood, Vydra

1 v 1

Pope v Heaton - Pope
Lowton - Same
Keane v Tarks - Keane (just about)
Mee - Same
Ward v Taylor - Taylor
Gudmundsson - Same
Defour v Brownhill - Defour
Hendrick v Westwood - Westwood
Arfield v McNeil - McNeil
Vokes v Wood - Wood
Gray v Vydra - Vydra

In a game I would say 2021 squad win 3-1.

Jensen,
Alexander, Duff, Carlisle, Jordan
Eagles, Gudjonsson, McCann, Elliott,
Blake, Paterson

Beats the current side 4-0

Silkyskills1 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:02 pm

Not sure JBG then and now could be considered the 'same.
Ward, too, was an excellent full back and as much as Charlie Taylor has improved he's not achieved the consistency of Ward.
Andre Gray scored goals to get us promoted and then to retain our Premier league status. Fair enough Vydra has not had the game time but still not at Gray's level.
Not too much,either, between Westwood and Hendrix.

I'd agree with that, JBG is nowhere near the player he was when we first signed him. And Ward in his prime was better than Taylor and Pieters.

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:48 pm

Jensen,
Alexander, Duff, Carlisle, Jordan
Eagles, Gudjonsson, McCann, Elliott,
Blake, Paterson

Beats the current side 4-0

I think only Robbie would definitely get into this seasons team, with Elliott and McCann possibles

Bigvince wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:58 pm

I think only Robbie would definitely get into this seasons team, with Elliott and McCann possibles

I would have Blake on the bench the rest wouldn't even get near the squad

claretonthecoast1882 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:01 pm

I would have Blake on the bench the rest wouldn't even get near the squad

I think Robbie Blake edges it over Vydra

To be fair to to KRBFC, he did say in a cup tie.

I've seen our current lot play cup ties. I'm struggling to disagree with him.

When I compare the two I would choose the following:

Heaton - Pope draw
Lowton
Keane - Tarks = Keane
Mee
Ward - Taylor = Ward (a much better all around player)
Arfield - McNeil = McNeil (our best player)
Defour - Westwood = Defour
Hendrick - Brownhill = Hendrick
Gudmundsson
Vokes - Wood = wood
Gray - Vydra = Gray

So for me it is 2016 - 5 and 2021 - 2

Highlights how poor our recruitment has been in almost 5 seasons

Our biggest issue and my biggest complaint isn’t the eleven. It’s the 22. The bench yesterday was abysmal.

People trying to predict how this team would play against the 2016 one when we won away at Liverpool but lost against some right dross.

Impossible to predict how this side will perform.

A fit Cork would be first on the team sheet 2021 and in 2016 if we had him

What was the average age of the squad then v now ?
What was the bench like then v now ? The main problem
Players who played then and now may not be the same standard or in the same form.
We haven’t improved massively though if at all.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:16 pm

Is our squad worst or better than the team we had 5 years ago in the premier league?

2016 team.

Heaton
Lowton, Keane, Mee, Ward
Gudmundsson, Defour, Hendrick, Arfield
Voles, Gray

2021 team.

Pope
Lowton, Tarks, Mee, Taylor
Gudmundsson, Brownhill, Westwood, McNeil
Wood, Vydra

Why start a thread to compare squads then only look at two line-ups; best XI from 2016 and current line-up (not factoring in injuries)?

Anyone would think it was just an excuse to have another moan about poor transfer windows.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:08 pm

When I compare the two I would choose the following:

Heaton - Pope draw
Lowton
Keane - Tarks = Keane
Mee
Ward - Taylor = Ward (a much better all around player)
Arfield - McNeil = McNeil (our best player)
Defour - Westwood = Defour
Hendrick - Brownhill = Hendrick
Gudmundsson
Vokes - Wood = wood
Gray - Vydra = Gray

So for me it is 2016 - 5 and 2021 - 2

Highlights how poor our recruitment has been in almost 5 seasons

Edit: And there we have it.

PS Boyd and Marney played more games in that season than JBG and Defour. Why aren't they in your line up?

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:53 am

Why start a thread to compare squads then only look at two line-ups; best XI from 2016 and current line-up (not factoring in injuries)?

Anyone would think it was just an excuse to have another moan about poor transfer windows.



Edit: And there we have it.

PS Boyd and Marney played more games in that season than JBG and Defour. Why aren't they in your line up?

Think you answered your own question

Bigvince wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:58 pm

I think only Robbie would definitely get into this seasons team, with Elliott and McCann possibles

Would he ever get a game, I can't recall Bob being anywhere near 'Dyche fit' at any point in his time at Burnley.

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:53 am

Why start a thread to compare squads then only look at two line-ups; best XI from 2016 and current line-up (not factoring in injuries)?

Anyone would think it was just an excuse to have another moan about poor transfer windows.



Edit: And there we have it.

PS Boyd and Marney played more games in that season than JBG and Defour. Why aren't they in your line up?

I quite clearly picked the two strongest sides from both seasons. I could have picked Brady and Pieters for the 2021 season.

If anything it highlights how poor our transfers have been that a team that started Marney and Boyd (over Defour and JBG) is probably going to finish on more points than this seasons squad.

I don’t know why people get so offended on this board. I am merely talking about the progression of the squad over 4-5 years and people somehow manage to turn it into an argument.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:16 pm

Is our squad worst or better than the team we had 5 years ago in the premier league?

2016 team.

Heaton
Lowton, Keane, Mee, Ward
Gudmundsson, Defour, Hendrick, Arfield
Voles, Gray

2021 team.

Pope
Lowton, Tarks, Mee, Taylor
Gudmundsson, Brownhill, Westwood, McNeil
Wood, Vydra

Pope good deal better than Heaton
Taylor marginally better than Ward
Keane marginally better than Tarks
Defour significantly better than Brownhill
Westwood good deal better than Hendrick
McNeill significantly better than Arfield
Wood significantly better than Vokes
Gray (then) better than Vydra

When comparing the two squads it is the class act of Defour that stands out and sadly unless we are very lucky we are unlikely to get a player of his calibre again.

Caballo wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:47 pm

Would he ever get a game, I can't recall Bob being anywhere near 'Dyche fit' at any point in his time at Burnley.

I get your point, but Defour got a game, and Robbie was certainly fitter than Steven, I think SD would find it hard to ignore Blake’s quality.

Blake had only 20 starts in a relegated team and scored 2 goals. He was a top championship player for Burnley, but definitely past his best by the time we got to PL level.

He scored 8 Premier League goals in his career.

Newcastleclaret93 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:03 pm

I quite clearly picked the two strongest sides from both seasons. I could have picked Brady and Pieters for the 2021 season.

If anything it highlights how poor our transfers have been that a team that started Marney and Boyd (over Defour and JBG) is probably going to finish on more points than this seasons squad.

I don’t know why people get so offended on this board. I am merely talking about the progression of the squad over 4-5 years and people somehow manage to turn it into an argument.

Curious that you picked a player you constantly tell everyone you don't rate in the "strongest side".

Not sure why you'd think I'm offended.

Can’t agree that Pope ‘ is a good deal better than Heaton’
Or that Taylor is ‘marginally better than Ward’. I think Ward was a more complete player.

All about opinions . Heaton marginally better than Pope and miles better feet . Taylor slightly better than Ward , he’s quicker , a better defender and great getting to the byline .As for Defour 2 goals in 4 seasons ,constant injuries , fitness issues and bench time but still way better than our current 2. Todays squad would win about 2-1 all things said I think

I think the current squad would probably win. What I would say is that I think the standard of the league now (apart from Sheffield United) is higher than it was then. Some of the teams below us over previous premier league seasons have been god awful.

Can’t agree that Pope ‘ is a good deal better than Heaton’

He is now

Cork get in if fit

TheFamilyCat wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:20 pm

Curious that you picked a player you constantly tell everyone you don't rate in the "strongest side".

Not sure why you'd think I'm offended.

Bit difficult to pick anyone else given they have been injured all season.

Our lack of progress has been down to a recent regression post Europe. Until then we were progressing nicely.

We could have used the momentum to move forward but some bad decisions and lack of finances got in the way. We were in transition to play better football but it backfired with a bad run and therefore a need to get back to basics.

Each time we try to play better we get pegged back for being in a difficult league. It's very hard to make changes and progress whilst keeping the backbone of what's successful.

Partnerships take time to form, and certain partnerships work better with different tactics. I'm a big fan of the big man little man partnerships (ala Vings) and think Vydra/Wood has a lot more potential than Barnes/Wood.

Hopefully we can survive and start progressing again this summer. First squad depth, then work on quality. It will disappoint me if we revert to Barnes Wood again and more direct tactics.