Subs- zero impact this year

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Quickenthetempo
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Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:04 am

Just seen on twitter that none of our subs have impacted the game with a goal or assist in our 31 games this season.

Staggering stat.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:06 am

We could have done with one or two last two weeks just to protect what we had!

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by CleggHall » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:06 am

Hardly surprising, how many total minutes have our substitutes played?

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:07 am

Subs have always been Dyches achilles heel!

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:11 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:07 am
Subs have always been Dyches achilles heel!
He certainly doesn't like to use them unless taking Defour or Vydra off.

He must have done an inspired substitute at some time in his Burnley career?

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:12 am

A team that has struggled for goals all season with a squad that has a depleted bench most the season hasn't had a scoring sub, there's a shock.

Always good to find a new sentence that can be used after each match.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by randomclaret2 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:20 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:12 am
A team that has struggled for goals all season with a squad that has a depleted bench most the season hasn't had a scoring sub, there's a shock.

Always good to find a new sentence that can be used after each match.
Not just no scoring subs, they havent contributed an assist either....nothing. Squad depth or lack thereof, is coming perilously close to costing us big time

Quickenthetempo
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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:21 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:12 am
A team that has struggled for goals all season with a squad that has a depleted bench most the season hasn't had a scoring sub, there's a shock.

Always good to find a new sentence that can be used after each match.
We have always had a CF on the bench haven't we? Maybe the odd game we haven't?

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:27 am

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:21 am
We have always had a CF on the bench haven't we? Maybe the odd game we haven't?
Most games yes, wonder how many goals and assists have come from the bench in the last 3 seasons.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:33 am

I think Jay Rod might have been a sub at Bournemouth with his 90th minute winner and Wood scoring the 94th minute penalty against Wolves?

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by PremierLeagueClass » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:53 am

Whilst not a surprise, that really is an incredible stat. Huge summer coming up for BFC.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by dsr » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:31 pm

I still don't get the thrust of the "lack of depth in the forwards" argument. Are people saying that Wood-Barnes-Rodgriguez-Vydra is not enough forwards, or that one or more of them are inadequate and should have been replaced? There have been a fair few threads about not having strength in depth up front this season, and I don't suppose they are whingeing about injuries because that isn't anyone's fault. So is it the quality or the quantity of forwards that is causing the complaints?
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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by claretabroad » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:55 pm

The subs that have been brought when we are defending a lead will not show in that stat but will have impacted a game.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by thelaughingclaret » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:11 pm

Newcastle showed how making substitutions can win a game. If Dyche was Newcastle manager they wouldn’t have won that game. We were crying out for someone like cork in midfield on Sunday. Dyches reluctance to use substitutes costs us a lot of points over a season.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by tarkys_ears » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:13 pm

CleggHall wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:06 am
Hardly surprising, how many total minutes have our substitutes played?
Minutes?!?!

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:02 pm

Maybe we should start more games with our best players on the bench like Newcastle did on Sunday.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:04 pm

thelaughingclaret wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:11 pm
Newcastle showed how making substitutions can win a game. If Dyche was Newcastle manager they wouldn’t have won that game. We were crying out for someone like cork in midfield on Sunday. Dyches reluctance to use substitutes costs us a lot of points over a season.
What utter nonsense
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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by aggi » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:07 pm

dsr wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:31 pm
I still don't get the thrust of the "lack of depth in the forwards" argument. Are people saying that Wood-Barnes-Rodgriguez-Vydra is not enough forwards, or that one or more of them are inadequate and should have been replaced? There have been a fair few threads about not having strength in depth up front this season, and I don't suppose they are whingeing about injuries because that isn't anyone's fault. So is it the quality or the quantity of forwards that is causing the complaints?
I would say that one issue is that most clubs have a winger or midfielder who can be used as an attacking sub playing up front. Whilst our front 4 may or may not be strong enough (personally I'd say not) we don't really have options outside of them.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:10 pm

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:27 am
Most games yes, wonder how many goals and assists have come from the bench in the last 3 seasons.
Don’t know about assists but five of our Premier League goals last season were scored by substitutes.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by JohnDearyMe » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:32 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:11 am
He certainly doesn't like to use them unless taking Defour or Vydra off.

He must have done an inspired substitute at some time in his Burnley career?
Remember us beating Everton 2-1 at home back in 2018 coming back from 1 goal down. Pretty sure that involved bringing on Wood who scored one of the goals

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by wilks_bfc » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:45 pm

Quickenthetempo wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:11 am
He certainly doesn't like to use them unless taking Defour or Vydra off.

He must have done an inspired substitute at some time in his Burnley career?
Vokes against Rovers is one straight away

Think Barnes came on as a sub in the Palace game when he scored the winner

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Right_winger » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:53 pm

Dyche doesn’t do squads, or Subs.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Tall Paul » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:13 pm

He does do keeping us in the PL on a relatively tiny budget though.
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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by ClaretTony » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:15 pm

JohnDearyMe wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:32 pm
Remember us beating Everton 2-1 at home back in 2018 coming back from 1 goal down. Pretty sure that involved bringing on Wood who scored one of the goals
And he came on as a sub in the next game and scored twice at West Ham

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Greenmile » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:47 pm

2938CEDF-F459-449E-BA08-16A17DF1DB14.jpeg
2938CEDF-F459-449E-BA08-16A17DF1DB14.jpeg (27.8 KiB) Viewed 1106 times
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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Vintage Claret » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:07 pm

wilks_bfc wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:45 pm
Vokes against Rovers is one straight away

Think Barnes came on as a sub in the Palace game when he scored the winner
And Vokes against Watford away when we won 1-2

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Quickenthetempo » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:10 pm

Vydra against Southampton and Olympiakos

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by dsr » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:13 pm

I know the OP is referring to PL games, but Mumbongo headed on to Vydra in the FA Cup for the last minute equaliser. So subs haven't been entirely unproductive this season.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Woodleyclaret » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:15 pm

As stated previously Sean doesn't do subs unless he has to
V Newcastle triple subs at 1-0 up would have helped
We had players on the bench whocould have come on and perhaps helped us to a victory instead we did nothing till it was too late

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by kentonclaret » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:19 pm

Burnley also are very close to bottom (if not bottom) of the PL table for goals scored in the final 15 minutes of games.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Dark Cloud » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:22 pm

Newcastle won the game because they had by far their best player back from injury. OK he sat on the bench for 60 minutes because he was being eased back into it, but they needed him and he came on and we couldn't cope with him. They are basically stuffed without him as the past few months have proved. Unfortunately we suffered in almost exactly the same way with Ings returning the week before to galvanise Soton who without him had been on an awful run. We can just thank our lucky stars that Zaha was injured when we played Palace because they are another team who have ONE player who is head and shoulders above the rest. A la Grealish at Villa.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by boatshed bill » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:26 pm

This is close to the most pointless stat I've ever seen.
There are so many other ways to impact on a game.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Vegas Claret » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:39 pm

it's simple, we unfortunately lack Premier League quality in quite a few positions never mind the bench. IF we stay up it needs addressing or we will drop for sure, miracles can't be worked every year.

We need at least 2 starters replacing with far better quality then they can drop to the bench
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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Greenmile » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:27 am

Vegas Claret wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:39 pm
it's simple, we unfortunately lack Premier League quality in quite a few positions never mind the bench. IF we stay up it needs addressing or we will drop for sure, miracles can't be worked every year.

We need at least 2 starters replacing with far better quality then they can drop to the bench
Folk have been saying this on here every season since we last got promoted.

We haven’t been relegated yet, and it won’t happen this season.

It will happen eventually, though, and then you get to come back and say “I told you so”.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by djemba-djemba » Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:39 am

His substitutions are pathetic.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by CleggHall » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:59 pm

Why exactly did we buy Dale Stephens? What is his purpose and role in the squad?

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Dark Cloud » Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 pm

CleggHall wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:59 pm
Why exactly did we buy Dale Stephens? What is his purpose and role in the squad?
Because we'd never really replaced Jon Walters. ;)

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by brexit » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:00 am

Dark Cloud wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:39 pm
Because we'd never really replaced Jon Walters. ;)
Apparently makes a cracking brew

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by claretcarrot93 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:09 am

CleggHall wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:59 pm
Why exactly did we buy Dale Stephens? What is his purpose and role in the squad?
I love Dyche but the fact he has tried to sign him for the last 4 years makes me understand why Garlick was reluctant to release funds :D

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by Dark Cloud » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:11 am

brexit wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:00 am
Apparently makes a cracking brew
And the brews had been crap since Walters left and nobody had had anything remotely resembling a laugh in the dressing room since Crouch(y) left (apparently). So Dale is temporarily covering both roles and all for a million quid up front, so fair play to him. :roll:

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:22 am

The anti Dyche group grows a little by the week.

Hopefully by the time we are allowed to return to games they have some sort of protest.

Maybe form a group on Brunshaw Road after a game, give everyone else something to laugh at.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:50 am

dsr wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:31 pm
I still don't get the thrust of the "lack of depth in the forwards" argument. Are people saying that Wood-Barnes-Rodgriguez-Vydra is not enough forwards, or that one or more of them are inadequate and should have been replaced? There have been a fair few threads about not having strength in depth up front this season, and I don't suppose they are whingeing about injuries because that isn't anyone's fault. So is it the quality or the quantity of forwards that is causing the complaints?
The quality for sure, since Rodriguez returned we haven't seen him capable at this level consistently. It seems Barnes is injury prone now, feels like he's missed most of the last 2 years with injury. Vydra hasn't been given a real chance until recently, soon as Barnes is fit, Vydra will be on the bench again. Wood has had a poor season by his standards, looks razor sharp now though.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by KRBFC » Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:54 am

thelaughingclaret wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:11 pm
Newcastle showed how making substitutions can win a game. If Dyche was Newcastle manager they wouldn’t have won that game. We were crying out for someone like cork in midfield on Sunday. Dyches reluctance to use substitutes costs us a lot of points over a season.
How were we crying out for Cork? we were well in control of that game, we looked like the only team capable of scoring. As for subs, we don't have the luxury of Saint-Maximin and Calum Wilson on the bench. I don't know why people are surprised by the zero impact from subs stat, our bench has been full of unproven novices, defenders and goalkeepers all season. There's only one man to blame for that stat and it isn't Dyche.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by dibraidio » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:01 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:54 am
How were we crying out for Cork? we were well in control of that game, we looked like the only team capable of scoring. As for subs, we don't have the luxury of Saint-Maximin and Calum Wilson on the bench. I don't know why people are surprised by the zero impact from subs stat, our bench has been full of unproven novices, defenders and goalkeepers all season. There's only one man to blame for that stat and it isn't Dyche.
Who is that then? Sean has spent all the money available to him on giving the existing players bigger contracts. If they'd all remained on their 2017 contract terms he'd have had an extra 75 million to spend on transfers. Put it another way, our wage bill is nearly 600k a week more than it was in 2017 that's 24k a week extra each for a 25 man squad.

Don't get me wrong, I admire Sean Dyche for what he's done for the club but after successive poor transfer windows I really can't understand why the wage bill has continued to go up for what is essentially the same group of players.

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Re: Subs- zero impact this year

Post by KRBFC » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:12 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:01 pm
Who is that then? Sean has spent all the money available to him on giving the existing players bigger contracts. If they'd all remained on their 2017 contract terms he'd have had an extra 75 million to spend on transfers. Put it another way, our wage bill is nearly 600k a week more than it was in 2017 that's 24k a week extra each for a 25 man squad.

Don't get me wrong, I admire Sean Dyche for what he's done for the club but after successive poor transfer windows I really can't understand why the wage bill has continued to go up for what is essentially the same group of players.
I don't disagree with what you're saying although I'm not sure how much input Dyche has into wage numbers. Even with the incredibly high wage bill, there was money left over, held back from funding transfers. Are the wage numbers you're referring too before or after Hendrick, Lennon, Hart, Legdkins left? I'd assume that was 3 of our highest earners.

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