BPF

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boatshed bill
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Re: BPF

Post by boatshed bill » Sat May 15, 2021 7:37 pm

Didn't watch the game, but I've just seen the goals.
1st and 4th not great goalkeeping, but the other two were not BPF's fault at all.

But i think there's more to losing this game than relying on our 2nd choice keeper to keep us in it.

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Re: BPF

Post by elwaclaret » Sat May 15, 2021 8:23 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:04 pm
He can’t seem to make a save from outside the box, very slow feet or something. I thought he should’ve been across for today’s first goal, I think it’s a save Pope makes look comfortable.
He was clearly unsighted by our player, (Tarks I think), Gordon Banks in his prime would have struggled to react from the ball coming into view and flying in... I thought he was sharp to get as close as he did tbh.

He’s not the finished article, but how could he be. Far too early to judge him, not that he’s done badly for me up to now.
Last edited by elwaclaret on Sat May 15, 2021 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BPF

Post by KRBFC » Sat May 15, 2021 8:25 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:23 pm
He was clearly unsighted by (our player, I think) Gordon Banks in his prime would have struggled to react from the ball coming into view and flying in... I thought he was sharp to get as close as he did tbh.

He’s not the finished article, but how could he be. Far too early to judge him, not that he’s done badly for me up to now.
I'd have to watch it again from a better angle, just seemed to take an age to go in and that was the only place he could've scored. Maybe I'm being harsh tho

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Re: BPF

Post by elwaclaret » Sat May 15, 2021 8:28 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:25 pm
I'd have to watch it again from a better angle, just seemed to take an age to go in and that was the only place he could've scored. Maybe I'm being harsh tho
It’s worth looking from behind the goal camera, keepers view. Until the ball came around our player there was no telling what direction he should dive... chances were there would be a block attempt of some kind deflecting it. - that was my thought anyway

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Re: BPF

Post by KRBFC » Sat May 15, 2021 8:36 pm

elwaclaret wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:28 pm
It’s worth looking from behind the goal camera, keepers view. Until the ball came around our player there was no telling what direction he should dive... chances were there would be a block attempt of some kind deflecting it. - that was my thought anyway
Weird because I'd often find myself defending Hart, now i'm being critical of BPF for the same thing. I think Pope has given me an unrealistic view on goalkeeping ability, I need to remind myself, there are very few Nick Pope's around.

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Re: BPF

Post by Vegas Claret » Sat May 15, 2021 8:40 pm

Must admit to not paying too much attention but what is his communication like ? That's what set the likes of Heaton and Pope apart in our team where organization is key

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Re: BPF

Post by BurnleyFC » Sat May 15, 2021 8:42 pm

He’s not as good as Pope (few goalkeepers in the world are) but he’s still young enough to turn into a Premier League quality player, which I’m sure he will.

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Re: BPF

Post by elwaclaret » Sat May 15, 2021 8:43 pm

KRBFC wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:36 pm
Weird because I'd often find myself defending Hart, now i'm being critical of BPF for the same thing. I think Pope has given me an unrealistic view on goalkeeping ability, I need to remind myself, there are very few Nick Pope's around.
Certainly been spoiled, even Hart couldn’t command Heaton like respect, Pope is just a guy who is so level headed he commands respect from his peers, even the England players are largely in awe of him being so unruffleable... and then you get BPF trying to make his way in the team and working with a defence who instinctively know what Pope needs them to do, but it isn’t necessarily the same BPF needs them to do.

Like I said far too soon to judge him.

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Re: BPF

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sat May 15, 2021 11:03 pm

Just dont see where anyone has seen anything to give them any confidence he will be a premier league goalkeeper.

He now has conceded 14 goals in 4 starts.

For context Pope has conceded just 37 in 32!

Its not just the saves. And people can blame the poor efforts in defence. Its the positioning, leadership, organisation etc.

Hope he makes it. But I just dont see it even at this stage.

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Re: BPF

Post by djemba-djemba » Sat May 15, 2021 11:23 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 7:37 pm
Didn't watch the game, but I've just seen the goals.
1st and 4th not great goalkeeping, but the other two were not BPF's fault at all.

But i think there's more to losing this game than relying on our 2nd choice keeper to keep us in it.
Well as long as it was only 2 goals he messed up on then that’s not so bad.

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Re: BPF

Post by dsr » Sat May 15, 2021 11:25 pm

djemba-djemba wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:23 pm
Well as long as it was only 2 goals he messed up on then that’s not so bad.
He only messed up on the 4th. The 1st goal - perhaps Pope may have saved it. I don't know.

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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Sat May 15, 2021 11:49 pm

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:03 pm
Just dont see where anyone has seen anything to give them any confidence he will be a premier league goalkeeper.

He now has conceded 14 goals in 4 starts.

For context Pope has conceded just 37 in 32!

Its not just the saves. And people can blame the poor efforts in defence. Its the positioning, leadership, organisation etc.

Hope he makes it. But I just dont see it even at this stage.
The 14 in 4 does include 2 of them games away to the 2 best sides in the country/league, if we are using stats let’s tell the full story, I’m not suggesting he’s better than NP but as far as reserve keepers go he isn’t that bad.

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Re: BPF

Post by Woonderbah » Sun May 16, 2021 12:39 am

I feel sorry for him.. on the few occasions he gets a chance, the whole defence seems to book the day off.. I'm confident he'll be an asset and more importantly Billy Mercer does too
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Re: BPF

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Sun May 16, 2021 1:10 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 11:49 pm
The 14 in 4 does include 2 of them games away to the 2 best sides in the country/league, if we are using stats let’s tell the full story, I’m not suggesting he’s better than NP but as far as reserve keepers go he isn’t that bad.
Regardless of opposition. I honestly haven’t seen anything to suggest he isn’t that bad.

His positioning is poor. He has no presence. And appears to concede more than his share of saveable goals.

I know we have been blessed with keepers in recent times.

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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun May 16, 2021 1:31 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 1:10 am
Regardless of opposition. I honestly haven’t seen anything to suggest he isn’t that bad.

His positioning is poor. He has no presence. And appears to concede more than his share of saveable goals.

I know we have been blessed with keepers in recent times.
It’s a good job he isn’t first choice then & he’ll only play an handful of games then, as a reserve keeper he’s probably the best we can get, anybody better would want to start & would start even if it meant the championship, I don’t mind him occasionally playing he won’t be on anything like joe hart as well. I look at things from all different angles generally.

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Re: BPF

Post by KRBFC » Sun May 16, 2021 6:27 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 1:31 am
It’s a good job he isn’t first choice then & he’ll only play an handful of games then,


I look at things from all different angles generally.
If you look at all different angles you completely missed the obvious angle of Pope could be sold and BPF could've been brought in to eventually replace him.

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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Sun May 16, 2021 7:07 am

KRBFC wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 6:27 am
If you look at all different angles you completely missed the obvious angle of Pope could be sold and BPF could've been brought in to eventually replace him.
Missing no obvious angles at all because I believe if pope was sold another keeper would come in, but I’m not worrying about something which hasn’t happened & might not even happen.

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Re: BPF

Post by MACCA » Sun May 16, 2021 9:47 am

Big saves at important times changes the flow, and or wins points. BPF is yet to do that, but I'm sure he will.
Also a solid well drilled back 5 is so important, and regardless if him being here quite a while you often need a prolonged period together to get used to how each individual works.

Communication, organisation, what theyll come for and when etc all needs and takes real game time
He's obviously not a premier league number 1 yet, but I trust Billy Mercer's judgement as he's a great track record, so let's just let him do his magic, I'm sure itll work out well in the end, it usually does.

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Re: BPF

Post by arise_sir_charge » Sun May 16, 2021 10:08 am

I don’t particularly rate the Leeds keeper but I reckon if the teams swap keepers yesterday that game finishes much closer than it did. Their keeper made big saves, ours didn’t.

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Re: BPF

Post by Down_Rover » Sun May 16, 2021 10:30 am

Well it looks like he will get two more games to learn and for us to learn

How good is Norris?

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Re: BPF

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon May 17, 2021 8:32 am

Good to see people starting to prefer their keeper being able to keep the ball out the net rather than going on about his kicking ability.

BPF is decent with his feet but yet to show he can make saves, Pope makes saves, keeps clean sheets yet isn't great with his feet. Looks like preventing goals is the most important after all.

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Re: BPF

Post by evensteadiereddie » Mon May 17, 2021 8:41 am

Good point but it's always nice to be able to add yet another scapegoat to this season's long list even at this late stage...........

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Re: BPF

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon May 17, 2021 8:44 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 8:32 am
Good to see people starting to prefer their keeper being able to keep the ball out the net rather than going on about his kicking ability.

BPF is decent with his feet but yet to show he can make saves, Pope makes saves, keeps clean sheets yet isn't great with his feet. Looks like preventing goals is the most important after all.
Or ideally a keeper that can do both

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Re: BPF

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon May 17, 2021 8:47 am

evensteadiereddie wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 8:41 am
Good point but it's always nice to be able to add yet another scapegoat to this season's long list even at this late stage...........
Yup, we have even managed to get another thread on here started having a go at Hendrick (over 12 months since he kicked a ball for us) I noticed this morning. It does help though highlight those who should be ignored 99% the time

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Re: BPF

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon May 17, 2021 8:49 am

Newcastleclaret93 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 8:44 am
Or ideally a keeper that can do both

Which is fine, so we sell Pope due to his kicking and replace him with a keeper who is as good as Pope keeping it out the net but better with his feet ?

Good luck with that

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Re: BPF

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon May 17, 2021 9:06 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 1:31 am
It’s a good job he isn’t first choice then & he’ll only play an handful of games then, as a reserve keeper he’s probably the best we can get, anybody better would want to start & would start even if it meant the championship, I don’t mind him occasionally playing he won’t be on anything like joe hart as well. I look at things from all different angles generally.
You can’t say that with certainty though. See popes injury at Aberdeen and Heatons injury against palace (and for Villa against us).

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Re: BPF

Post by Newcastleclaret93 » Mon May 17, 2021 9:06 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 8:49 am
Which is fine, so we sell Pope due to his kicking and replace him with a keeper who is as good as Pope keeping it out the net but better with his feet ?

Good luck with that
I hope we don’t sell Pope. I’m not going to judge BPF yet, don’t think he has played enough. If his saving rate can improve he will be a great keeper.
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Re: BPF

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Mon May 17, 2021 9:07 am

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:08 am
I don’t particularly rate the Leeds keeper but I reckon if the teams swap keepers yesterday that game finishes much closer than it did. Their keeper made big saves, ours didn’t.
Agree on all that.

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Re: BPF

Post by KRBFC » Mon May 17, 2021 9:59 am

claretonthecoast1882 wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 8:49 am
Which is fine, so we sell Pope due to his kicking and replace him with a keeper who is as good as Pope keeping it out the net but better with his feet ?

Good luck with that
You're making up nonsense nobody has ever said to whine about? :lol: :lol:

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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon May 17, 2021 10:10 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 9:06 am
You can’t say that with certainty though. See popes injury at Aberdeen and Heatons injury against palace (and for Villa against us).
I think he’s a good egg & on the basis that it’s unlikely he’ll feature in important games I don’t think it’s a massive issue, Newcastle apart the teams he’s conceded against have an embarrassment of riches upfront even Leeds as a team are very attack minded, he’s 24 (I think) I’d need to Google so plenty of time for him to improve, dyche & mercer must have some confidence in his abilities so that’s good enough for me.

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Re: BPF

Post by claretonthecoast1882 » Mon May 17, 2021 11:20 am

KRBFC wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 9:59 am
You're making up nonsense nobody has ever said to whine about? :lol: :lol:
Do us a favour kid, don't quote me.

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Re: BPF

Post by dibraidio » Mon May 17, 2021 1:11 pm

He's put in some really good performances at International level. Made some fantastic saves. Maybe he needs time to build some understandings with the players in front of him. We were very lucky that Pope came in and was fantastic from day one, maybe BPF will just need a little more time.

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Re: BPF

Post by The Enclosure » Mon May 17, 2021 1:18 pm

Think Joe Hart may be available.

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Re: BPF

Post by boatshed bill » Mon May 17, 2021 7:35 pm

I think it's 8 times we've let in 3 or more league goals this season.
Can't just be down to whoever is playing in goal.

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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Mon May 17, 2021 7:51 pm

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:35 pm
I think it's 8 times we've let in 3 or more league goals this season.
Can't just be down to whoever is playing in goal.
True, but we always need a scapegoat to bolster the confidence of the victim. Pretty much everybody had a off day apart from maybe Taylor, vydra was thrown about as a candidate on other threads for missing a chance, why we can’t just say everybody (almost) just played poo I don’t know.
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Re: BPF

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue May 18, 2021 1:42 am

boatshed bill wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 7:35 pm
I think it's 8 times we've let in 3 or more league goals this season.
Can't just be down to whoever is playing in goal.
And BPF has done so in three of his four games. With the other game conceding two.

Pope on the other hand has 11 clean sheets. Behind only Chelsea, Spurs, City and Aston Villa’s keepers. Having missed 4 games.

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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue May 18, 2021 5:02 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 1:42 am
And BPF has done so in three of his four games. With the other game conceding two.

Pope on the other hand has 11 clean sheets. Behind only Chelsea, Spurs, City and Aston Villa’s keepers. Having missed 4 games.
I don’t think you’ll find anybody disagreeing that Nick pope isn’t a better keeper hence being number 1, I’m not sure what the stats are supposed to be proving it’s hardly a surprise that NP comes out number 1, the facts are NP can’t play every game so on odd occasions BPF has to play it’s not a situation everybody’s 100% happy about but there you go.

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Re: BPF

Post by cricketfieldclarets » Tue May 18, 2021 9:22 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 5:02 am
I don’t think you’ll find anybody disagreeing that Nick pope isn’t a better keeper hence being number 1, I’m not sure what the stats are supposed to be proving it’s hardly a surprise that NP comes out number 1, the facts are NP can’t play every game so on odd occasions BPF has to play it’s not a situation everybody’s 100% happy about but there you go.
Probably not making the point well enough. Obviously number one will always likely be better. The point on bpf though is that currently stats show he is way off popes level and there’s nothing to suggest he will get anywhere near that level either.

As I say. Hope I’m wrong and he comes good.

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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue May 18, 2021 10:12 am

cricketfieldclarets wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 9:22 am
Probably not making the point well enough. Obviously number one will always likely be better. The point on bpf though is that currently stats show he is way off popes level and there’s nothing to suggest he will get anywhere near that level either.

As I say. Hope I’m wrong and he comes good.
As things currently stand that doesn’t matter as he is not the number 1 keeper, I don’t think anybody really envisaged BPF would ever be a suitable candidate for displacing pope or reaching popes level, BPF was brought in as a understudy & that’s exactly what he is, like I posted earlier the day pope ever leaves if he does it’s likely another keeper will be incoming anyway. You are comparing things which aren’t equal like for like & expecting the same outcome.

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Re: BPF

Post by Dark Cloud » Tue May 18, 2021 10:18 am

Well if BPF is hoping things will improve for him statistics wise tomorrow night, he's probably going to extremely disappointed!

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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue May 18, 2021 10:30 am

It’s hardly a revelation that a number 2 keeper isn’t as good as a number 1 keeper I don’t what some people expect, I’m
Struggling to think of any distinct closeness ability wise between any number 1s & 2s in the PL, quality wise if it was that close there wouldn’t stick around & be a understudy.

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Re: BPF

Post by dibraidio » Tue May 18, 2021 10:46 am

Jakubclaret wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:30 am
It’s hardly a revelation that a number 2 keeper isn’t as good as a number 1 keeper I don’t what some people expect, I’m
Struggling to think of any distinct closeness ability wise between any number 1s & 2s in the PL, quality wise if it was that close there wouldn’t stick around & be a understudy.
Err, Heaton and Pope? We had both for quite some time didn't we?

Henderson and De Gea?
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Re: BPF

Post by boatshed bill » Tue May 18, 2021 11:08 am

Isn't it great to see all these goalkeeping experts kicking our young reserve keeper?

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Re: BPF

Post by fatboy47 » Tue May 18, 2021 11:17 am

Can't judge a keeper who isn't playing regularly.

Pope looked bloody shaky in a cup game against Accy when he was understudying Heaton.

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Re: BPF

Post by aggi » Tue May 18, 2021 2:16 pm

A few interesting things when you look at the stats:

BPF's save percentage is way lower than most keepers and so, unsurprisingly, is his post shot expected goals minus goals conceded (basically a measure comparing how many goals you would expect a keeper to concede against how many they have conceded). What's interesting though is how many more shots on target we face when BPF is playing, an extra 50% compared to Pope. Of course that may be skewed by him playing so few games with half of them being against the top two teams.
Keepers.jpg
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Re: BPF

Post by Jakubclaret » Tue May 18, 2021 3:47 pm

dibraidio wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 10:46 am
Err, Heaton and Pope? We had both for quite some time didn't we?

Henderson and De Gea?
The last 2 you can attribute money being the motivator, granted the first example you’ve got me stumped, I think when we signed Nick from charlton, heatons days were numbered & at the time both were pretty good goalkeepers & I don’t think 6 years between them was a massive gulf, since TH hasn’t really cemented his place in AVFC & NP pretty much picks himself, at this current time I know which 1 I prefer. I’d say within our ranks there’s some fair distance between BPF & NP & almost the same age gap between TH & NP just a year disparity, could be a omen stranger things have happened, Leeds are no duck eggs & actually beat Man City away I think, if BPF was conceding shed loads of goals against West Brom & Sheffield United a stronger argument would exist.

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Re: BPF

Post by boatshed bill » Tue May 18, 2021 8:52 pm

arise_sir_charge wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 10:08 am
I don’t particularly rate the Leeds keeper but I reckon if the teams swap keepers yesterday that game finishes much closer than it did. Their keeper made big saves, ours didn’t.
I don't like or particularly rate any Leeds player, but on Saturday their whole team was better than ours in every position, except Alioski vs Taylor.
And their manager tactically had one over our manager.

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Re: BPF

Post by Tall Paul » Wed May 19, 2021 7:18 pm

Dropped for Norris tonight

Rileybobs
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Re: BPF

Post by Rileybobs » Wed May 19, 2021 7:19 pm

What a blow for the lad. Can’t say I’m disappointed though.

Suppose it takes him out of the firing line and gives him a chance to start afresh next season, if he’s still here.

Buxtonclaret
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Re: BPF

Post by Buxtonclaret » Wed May 19, 2021 7:27 pm

Find putting Norris in in front of BPF will be an interesting debate on here.
Must say, I'm a bit baffled.

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